Expectations For Harsin

[auburnatl1 4,874]

The last 3 years have been a mess and imo mostly self-inflicted. It’s a broader issue  than boosters and AD.  There’s alway a diabolical “them” who’s caused this  vs reading the posts on this board (which reflect our fan culture) and looking in the mirror. The win-now/fire/pay out/pray/repeat cycle has turned me off. The last straw for me was the probe fiasco. We’ve gone UT.

I’m focusing on basketball now. 

[e808 3,024]

1 hour ago, au302 said:

I was thinking about this last night. The first step needs/should be to fix the locker room. The last group of players seem like good people, but did not seem to get along with their coaches or each other. Hard to watch guys having to be restrained from each other on the sideline or dancing as we're getting killed.

Harsin waited a year but finally lanced the boil by running off 20 guys. Unfortunately we experienced the pain of the infection being relieved in the most drastic way possible. Get players in that like being around each other and are in it to better themselves and not for the perks and things will start to get better. That's something that Harsin can build off of, and if not, will at least leave the next guy with a much better program

Players having heated situations on the sidelines isn’t exclusive to Auburn. Other teams do this as well even in the pros. Unfortunately, the arguments happen from time to time in a highly competitive situation that doesn’t always mean teammates don’t like each other. 

[au302 2,669]

42 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Maybe. The thing is that no matter how good of an attitude and work ethic you're players have, if they don't have the raw talent to compete with the schedule they play then you're not going to be successful. 

 

recruiting is everything really. Optimally you'd want a program full of very talented, disciplined guys with great attitudes. If I had to pick though, I'd take highly talented guys with some attitude problems over a collective group of less talented guys who have great attitudes. 

I think the talent alone would give you a better chance at winning even if it similarly causes problems in other areas.  

Of course. I don't mean to argue that it will lead to more wins this year. This team has talent and depth limitations that will only be fixed by recruiting classes. But while I do wish we could recruit on par with Bama and A&M, I know we can't. We can and should still finish around top 10, but we've always been a rather blue collar program that made up for it with discipline and out-toughing people by running the ball. Just seemed like we got away from locker room cohesiveness and it all went down the drain. It happens. Fix that and add more talent 

[au302 2,669]

24 minutes ago, e808 said:

Players having heated situations on the sidelines isn’t exclusive to Auburn. Other teams do this as well even in the pros. Unfortunately, the arguments happen from time to time in a highly competitive situation that doesn’t always mean teammates don’t like each other. 

I hear you and I agree. But personally I've just seen enough evidence that things were bad. The dancing and laughing was even more embarrassing imo. Nix screaming at the OC. Smoke smiling and acting nuts when he got ejected in the B-ham bowl. Hearing players cutting up in the background during Harsin's post game PC at SCAR. Behavior on social media.

This has nothing to do with these players personally, just football wise. They seem like good people, but definitely think things got off track in that regard sometime around 2018. Guys were actually encouraging each other and getting excited for each other during ADay. I'm hoping its a sign

[CoffeeTiger 5,084]

40 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

The last 3 years have been a mess and imo mostly self-inflicted. It’s a broader issue  than boosters and AD.  There’s alway a diabolical “them” who’s caused this  vs reading the posts on this board (which reflect our fan culture) and looking in the mirror. The win-now/fire/pay out/pray/repeat cycle has turned me off. The last straw for me was the probe fiasco. We’ve gone UT.

I’m focusing on basketball now. 

 

If Harsin doesn't work out then I'm afraid the UT decade long debacle is exactly what we'd be heading towards. Only so much turnover and lost recruiting classes a program can take before it risks being in a perpetual cycle of 'rebuilding'.  

[Didba 5,256]

17 hours ago, AU9377 said:

How did Tubs grow and adapt?  He went through coordinators like Gus did Double Bubble.  Harsin is the only one of the bunch that was a fish out of water when he got here.  That wouldn't be too much to overcome for most people, but Harsin approached the job with what came across to most as a lot of hostility.  He has made a conscious effort to change that impression.  It will be best for everyone if he is able to do that and find some success on the field.  We will see.

Something MikeG said yesterday struck home with me about Harsin's perceived hostility when he first came here...  He made a point that when Harsin got here there were probably a good amount of people within the AD and football program that were pissed Gus was fired and as such Harsin may have felt he had to watch his back and be more guarded as a result until he knew who was still loyal to Gus.

[e808 3,024]

1 hour ago, Didba said:

Something MikeG said yesterday struck home with me about Harsin's perceived hostility when he first came here...  He made a point that when Harsin got here there were probably a good amount of people within the AD and football program that were pissed Gus was fired and as such Harsin may have felt he had to watch his back and be more guarded as a result until he knew who was still loyal to Gus.

I respectfully disagree with that because the staff were all the people he hired. The bottom line is he had to adjust to big boy football and  do everything that comes along with that. When he was at Boise he didn’t have to be concerned with those things. 
Also, keep in mind when Gus was fired all the dirty that came out.

Edited May 31, 2022 by e808
Typo

[Rednilla 5,383]

7 minutes ago, e808 said:

I respectfully disagree with that because the staff were all the people he had. The bottom line is he had to adjust to big boy football and  do everything that comes along with that. When he was at Boise he didn’t have to be concerned with those things. 

When he was at Boise, he was a favored son who had worked his way up the ranks mostly at Boise, so he didn't have to sell himself quite the same way as he has had to here at Auburn. I think that probably had as much to do with the adjustment period as anything did.

[AUwent 3,747]

4 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

The last 3 years have been a mess and imo mostly self-inflicted. It’s a broader issue  than boosters and AD.  There’s alway a diabolical “them” who’s caused this  vs reading the posts on this board (which reflect our fan culture) and looking in the mirror. The win-now/fire/pay out/pray/repeat cycle has turned me off. The last straw for me was the probe fiasco. We’ve gone UT.

I’m focusing on basketball now. 

The 6-7 record is not why some of us are mad at Harsin!

Someone else (can't remember who) put it in better words than I could in late January:
 

"Transfer Portal- 0 players incoming at OL and WR. 2 huge question marks at QB. Players leaving in droves, including 8 DL. At this rate DL will look like OL within a few years. Looks like no more incoming transfers headed this way.

 

Coaches- Lost highly respected DC and DL coach. Struck out on at least top 2 DL coach candidates. Fired WR coach four games into season, replaced with coach from Boise who everyone knew was going to be on staff at first opportunity.Fired OC who was supposed to help recruiting in the region and to top it off, lost his son to main rival at our biggest position of need. Tried to replace him with coach under the shadow of NCAA investigation, blocked by administration here. Said coach was later fired by his current employer. Hired an NFL QB coach to much acclaim, now looks like he'll never have a coaches photo taken here. OL coach was expected to be replaced according to several of the beat guys but he somehow remains after signing 1 HS OLineman and totally bombing in the portal.

 

Recruiting- Struggled most of the early cycle, some improvement at the end to salvage a decent class. Good chance of a total bomb in the late signing period. Hard to see Schmedding/Brumbaugh as anything other than a step back in recruiting in comparison to Mason/Eason. Carnell and Ethridge(along with Trovon Reed, who we depend on desperately despite not even being an on field coach) are left trying to pick up the (considerable) slack of the other coaches in recruiting, especially with Mason and Eason gone.

 

This all followed a season that ended with 5 consecutive losses after having a lead in most if not all of these games. And from some credible posters here, he has struggled to connect with the boosters who, like it or not, Auburn is heavily dependent on for financial support. I'm mystified how Harsin has any support left at this point."

Edited May 31, 2022 by AUwent

[e808 3,024]

6 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

When he was at Boise, he was a favored son who had worked his way up the ranks mostly at Boise, so he didn't have to sell himself quite the same way as he has had to here at Auburn. I think that probably had as much to do with the adjustment period as anything did.

No argument there. U can blame Gus for a lot of stuff. I just thought that was a stretch. 

[e808 3,024]

42 minutes ago, AUwent said:

The 6-7 record is not why some of us are mad at Harsin!

Someone else (can't remember who) put it in better words than I could in late January:
 

"Transfer Portal- 0 players incoming at OL and WR. 2 huge question marks at QB. Players leaving in droves, including 8 DL. At this rate DL will look like OL within a few years. Looks like no more incoming transfers headed this way.

 

Coaches- Lost highly respected DC and DL coach. Struck out on at least top 2 DL coach candidates. Fired WR coach four games into season, replaced with coach from Boise who everyone knew was going to be on staff at first opportunity.Fired OC who was supposed to help recruiting in the region and to top it off, lost his son to main rival at our biggest position of need. Tried to replace him with coach under the shadow of NCAA investigation, blocked by administration here. Said coach was later fired by his current employer. Hired an NFL QB coach to much acclaim, now looks like he'll never have a coaches photo taken here. OL coach was expected to be replaced according to several of the beat guys but he somehow remains after signing 1 HS OLineman and totally bombing in the portal.

 

Recruiting- Struggled most of the early cycle, some improvement at the end to salvage a decent class. Good chance of a total bomb in the late signing period. Hard to see Schmedding/Brumbaugh as anything other than a step back in recruiting in comparison to Mason/Eason. Carnell and Ethridge(along with Trovon Reed, who we depend on desperately despite not even being an on field coach) are left trying to pick up the (considerable) slack of the other coaches in recruiting, especially with Mason and Eason gone.

 

This all followed a season that ended with 5 consecutive losses after having a lead in most if not all of these games. And from some credible posters here, he has struggled to connect with the boosters who, like it or not, Auburn is heavily dependent on for financial support. I'm mystified how Harsin has any support left at this point."

Kudos to this. Look at what’s happening  now and not in the past. We will have more information soon enough.

[AUwent 3,747]

3 minutes ago, e808 said:

Kudos to this. Look at what’s happening  now and not in the past. We will have more information soon enough.

By that do you mean the results this season or some new shoe to drop about the investigation?

[e808 3,024]

2 minutes ago, AUwent said:

By that do you mean the results this season or some new shoe to drop about the investigation?

Results this season. 

[AU9377 4,918]

Don't under value the fact that this is the deep South.  Kindness goes a long way.  When someone is abrasive, rather than kind, it rubs people down here the wrong way.  It is as simple as that. Say anything people want about Gus, Tubs, etc., they were all raised understanding the culture.  They don't have to try to treat people well.  I do believe that Harsin is now making an effort to change the impression he conveyed last year.  That is a good thing.

[au302 2,669]

46 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Don't under value the fact that this is the deep South.  Kindness goes a long way.  When someone is abrasive, rather than kind, it rubs people down here the wrong way.  It is as simple as that. Say anything people want about Gus, Tubs, etc., they were all raised understanding the culture.  They don't have to try to treat people well.  I do believe that Harsin is now making an effort to change the impression he conveyed last year.  That is a good thing.

I mean didn't Tubs have just as bad of a relationship with the boosters, if not worse, than anyone? I thought they were locked out of the complex during his tenure. I've also heard that Rane yelled at him on the sideline one game, but that may be pure message board rumor. Between all that and JetGate I don't think Tubs and the boosters were boys

[Didba 5,256]

2 hours ago, e808 said:

I respectfully disagree with that because the staff were all the people he hired. The bottom line is he had to adjust to big boy football and  do everything that comes along with that. When he was at Boise he didn’t have to be concerned with those things. 
Also, keep in mind when Gus was fired all the dirty that came out.

This was speaking to administrators and other staff types in the department that Harsin would not have hired and wouldn't have left with Gus.  Not the staff Harsin hired and brought in himself.  Sorry if that was not clear.

[e808 3,024]

18 minutes ago, Didba said:

This was speaking to administrators and other staff types in the department that Harsin would not have hired and wouldn't have left with Gus.  Not the staff Harsin hired and brought in himself.  Sorry if that was not clear.

All good. It’s their opinion and we can agree to disagree. My question is if Cristobal, Kelly, Freeze or Napier took the job would that be used as a reason. Like I said earlier CBH just isn’t used to the shaking hands and rubbing elbows. Much as he wanted to avoid it the rubbing elbows won.

[Didba 5,256]

4 minutes ago, e808 said:

Like I said earlier CBH just isn’t used to the shaking hands and rubbing elbows. Much as he wanted to avoid it the rubbing elbows won.

Two parties can't agree to disagree on opinions if they aren't talking about the same thing. 

You said "I respectfully disagree with that because the staff were all the people he hired." clearly speaking to staff hired by Harsin after he was hired.

MikeG was speaking to employees at Auburn who were not hired by Harsin and were employed at Auburn before Harsin was hired.  As such you are speaking to something different than what I paraphrased from MikeG.

Now if you want to disagree about the staffers that were not hired by Harsin you totally can but logically you will need to have a different reason then: "I respectfully disagree with that because the staff were all the people he hired." because it is a logical impossibility to the original statement.

 

Further, have you even stopped to consider that CBH wanted to shake hands and rub elbows when he first got here but was prevented from doing that due to Covid restrictions that were still in place and by the time they were lifted he was full swing into preparing for a football season. 

Harsin himself in an interview stated that there were many things he would have normally done regarding shaking hands and rubbing elbows when he first got to Auburn but was unable to do much in person stuff due to the covid restrictions in place.  Funny that now, this spring, in his first full offseason with spring practice and without covid restrictions he has been able to do the shaking hands and rubbing elbows.

I'm not saying this is the reason but lets use Occam's razor to determine what is more reasonable. 

What's more likely: a) that Harsin hates rubbing elbows and shaking hands so he was avoiding doing it as much as possible to the detriment of his own job or b) that Harsin was restricted from rubbing elbows and shaking hands when he first got here, but once the restrictions were lifted he took the first chance he had to rub elbows and shake hands (ie this offseason)

[Gowebb11 9,313]

2 hours ago, AU9377 said:

Don't under value the fact that this is the deep South.  Kindness goes a long way. 

I agree with this. But that kindness has to work both ways. The same Deep South that values kindness has a long standing tradition of not being overly welcoming to ‘outsiders’. There’s work to do on both sides of the equation when it comes to changes Hardin needs to make and changes some of the AU folks need to make. 

[AUx 3,001]

Here in Destin. Not sure what this means, but Harsin just picked up 30 of these at Alvin's Island (to take back to staff in Auburn). JK - about Harsin, not about being in Destin.

 

[e808 3,024]

1 hour ago, Didba said:

Two parties can't agree to disagree on opinions if they aren't talking about the same thing. 

You said "I respectfully disagree with that because the staff were all the people he hired." clearly speaking to staff hired by Harsin after he was hired.

MikeG was speaking to employees at Auburn who were not hired by Harsin and were employed at Auburn before Harsin was hired.  As such you are speaking to something different than what I paraphrased from MikeG.

Now if you want to disagree about the staffers that were not hired by Harsin you totally can but logically you will need to have a different reason then: "I respectfully disagree with that because the staff were all the people he hired." because it is a logical impossibility to the original statement.

 

Further, have you even stopped to consider that CBH wanted to shake hands and rub elbows when he first got here but was prevented from doing that due to Covid restrictions that were still in place and by the time they were lifted he was full swing into preparing for a football season. 

Harsin himself in an interview stated that there were many things he would have normally done regarding shaking hands and rubbing elbows when he first got to Auburn but was unable to do much in person stuff due to the covid restrictions in place.  Funny that now, this spring, in his first full offseason with spring practice and without covid restrictions he has been able to do the shaking hands and rubbing elbows.

I'm not saying this is the reason but lets use Occam's razor to determine what is more reasonable. 

What's more likely: a) that Harsin hates rubbing elbows and shaking hands so he was avoiding doing it as much as possible to the detriment of his own job or b) that Harsin was restricted from rubbing elbows and shaking hands when he first got here, but once the restrictions were lifted he took the first chance he had to rub elbows and shake hands (ie this offseason)

I am speaking to the fact that it’s a weak argument to say that admin were against him. All this stuff isn’t exclusive to CBH. The main admin that was in his corner was the AD Green in which he didn’t hire Gus. Other coaches come in under the same situation. Also Gus wasn’t liked by everyone and by the time he was fired u could argue he had worn out his welcome. 

The perception was that CBH was a hard azz that doesnt want to be bothered with all the extracurricular stuff . Can’t fault him for being that way from being at Boise State for such a long period of time. 

I would say option A is most likely. It’s mighty convenient the changes only occurred after the complaints.  He has changed for the better.

For example CBP was at Auburn football games shirt off and all. CBH could have been at multiple basketball games if that truly was his demeanor. He didn’t start until all the accusations started to arise.

It’s getting old trying to blame Gus for everything that’s going wrong in the program. If it was Kirby, Cristobal, or even Napier do the accusation even occur.
 

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by e808
Typo

[AU9377 4,918]

1 hour ago, e808 said:

I am speaking to the fact that it’s a weak argument to say that admin were against him. All this stuff isn’t exclusive to CBH. The main admin that was in his corner was the AD Green in which he didn’t hire Gus. Other coaches come in under the same situation. Also Gus wasn’t liked by everyone and by the time he was fired u could argue he had worn out his welcome. 

The perception was that CBH was a hard azz that doesnt want to be bothered with all the extracurricular stuff . Can’t fault him for being that way from being at Boise State for such a long period of time. 

I would say option A is most likely. It’s mighty convenient the changes only occurred after the complaints.  He has changed for the better.

For example CBP was at Auburn football games shirt off and all. CBH could have been at multiple basketball games if that truly was his demeanor. He didn’t start until all the accusations started to arise.

It’s getting old trying to blame Gus for everything that’s going wrong in the program. If it was Kirby, Cristobal, or even Napier do the accusation even occur.
 

 

The difference is this.  Gus had worn out his welcome when it comes to some of the boosters and a vocal section of the fan base.  There was also a mutiny underway by the defensive staff.  None of those people disliked him personally or ever accused him of mistreating anyone.

There are long term staff members within the athletic department.  I have jokingly described them like Federal civil service employees.  No matter who the President is, they remain.  They don't take it personally when a coaching change is made.  They were likely more fond of Chizik than any coach we have had in the past 20 years.  Even so, they welcomed Malzahn back enthusiastically.  The difference this time was the atmosphere created by the new coach.  People that love their job all of a sudden found themselves working in a hostile atmosphere where two groups of people existed.  One was the Boise crowd and the other was everybody else.

[eaglenest 332]

5 hours ago, AU9377 said:

Don't under value the fact that this is the deep South.  Kindness goes a long way.  When someone is abrasive, rather than kind, it rubs people down here the wrong way.  It is as simple as that. Say anything people want about Gus, Tubs, etc., they were all raised understanding the culture.  They don't have to try to treat people well.  I do believe that Harsin is now making an effort to change the impression he conveyed last year.  That is a good thing.

So Saban did the same thing over there and everything was good and the rest is history. In hind sight than he wouldn't have made it over on the plains with his hells bell my way or the highway?

[e808 3,024]

32 minutes ago, eaglenest said:

So Saban did the same thing over there and everything was good and the rest is history. In hind sight than he wouldn't have made it over on the plains with his hells bell my way or the highway?

IMO Saban is the worst example to use. Different credentials.

Edited June 1, 2022 by e808

[Mikey 16,565]

12 hours ago, au302 said:

Harsin waited a year but finally lanced the boil by running off 20 guys.

I doubt that he ran off that many. Some few may have been run off. Others transferred to P5 schools, some even to SEC schools. Then there would be the question of why he "ran off" Johnson and Robinson and then took them back on the team. Did he have new information about guys he'd been around for over a year? Not likely. I suspect both were encouraged to return to AU with some amount of NIL $.

Make no mistake about it, we took it in the chops via the transfer portal. In future years we cannot continue to have such an imbalance in incoming vs. outgoing talent in the portal.