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Expectations For Harsin


Expectations  

74 members have voted

  1. 1. What is the bare minimum Bryan Harsin has to accomplish in the regular season to warrant a third year at Auburn?

    • 6 wins or less (i.e. he should get a third year regardless of what happens on the field)
      13
    • 7 Wins, Recruiting in top 20 nationally
      27
    • 7 Wins, Recruiting in top 10 nationally
      14
    • 8 Wins, Recruiting in top 20 nationally
      5
    • 8 Wins, Recruiting in top 15 nationally
      9
    • 8 Wins, Recruiting in top 10 nationally
      5
    • 9 Wins, Recruiting in top 20 nationally
      0
    • 9 Wins, Recruiting in top 15 nationally
      0
    • 9 Wins, Recruiting in top 10 nationally
      0
    • 10 Wins, Recruiting in top 10 nationally
      1


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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, e808 said:

I am speaking to the fact that it’s a weak argument to say that admin were against him. All this stuff isn’t exclusive to CBH. The main admin that was in his corner was the AD Green in which he didn’t hire Gus. Other coaches come in under the same situation. Also Gus wasn’t liked by everyone and by the time he was fired u could argue he had worn out his welcome. 

The perception was that CBH was a hard azz that doesnt want to be bothered with all the extracurricular stuff . Can’t fault him for being that way from being at Boise State for such a long period of time. 

I would say option A is most likely. It’s mighty convenient the changes only occurred after the complaints.  He has changed for the better.

For example CBP was at Auburn football games shirt off and all. CBH could have been at multiple basketball games if that truly was his demeanor. He didn’t start until all the accusations started to arise.

It’s getting old trying to blame Gus for everything that’s going wrong in the program. If it was Kirby, Cristobal, or even Napier do the accusation even occur.
 

 

This is actually a pretty valid take, while I might not agree with your conclusions I can see how you get there. But I'd also like to point out that the argument was not that the admin were against him, it was that he may have perceived some to be. Not that it makes much difference.

As for blaming Gus, I wasn't attempting to do that here so it came off like that, that was my bad.

Edited by Didba
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There were accusations of a hostile work environment.  What some administrative type people felt was hostile is normal business activity every where in the country.  Being expected to do your job to the best of your ability every day is not hostile.  Not saying good morning or happy birthday is not hostile.  What is hostile is creating rumors of an affair and spreading them to get a guy fired and harm his reputation.

Some people were putting in more effort to get a man fired than they did at their actual job, which was the problem in the first place, but they loved getting paid big money for being lazy.

Here was a classic rumor started.  Harsin barely met anyone at the Alabama High School Coaches dinner, Saban said hi to almost everyone.  Saban shook hands took pictures and got out the door.  Harsin was still there, he spent more time at the tables that he got to because he didn't want to come off as a an arrogant snob and going through the motions as this was the first chance to really get to meet any of them do to Covid restrictions.  Saban already knew everyone so he didn't have to do what Harsin did.  Heard this from several coaches in attendance.  So they took a small amount of truth and made it into a negative and blew it up on the internet by leaking to certain individuals, including ones on this site, was a reoccurring theme.   Harsin made mistakes, no doubt about it, but most of it being spoken as truth nowadays, shows you how well the disinformation hostile attacks on him were effective.  As some say if you repeat a lie enough people will start believing them.

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12 hours ago, AU9377 said:

The difference is this.  Gus had worn out his welcome when it comes to some of the boosters and a vocal section of the fan base.  There was also a mutiny underway by the defensive staff.  None of those people disliked him personally or ever accused him of mistreating anyone.

There are long term staff members within the athletic department.  I have jokingly described them like Federal civil service employees.  No matter who the President is, they remain.  They don't take it personally when a coaching change is made.  They were likely more fond of Chizik than any coach we have had in the past 20 years.  Even so, they welcomed Malzahn back enthusiastically.  The difference this time was the atmosphere created by the new coach.  People that love their job all of a sudden found themselves working in a hostile atmosphere where two groups of people existed.  One was the Boise crowd and the other was everybody else.

They probably love their jobs, because like any Civil Service employees, they can coast and not be held accountable. I've seen it first hand that type of environment breeds complacency. Probably why they hate it when strong personality figures like Harsin's or Galloways come in and shake things up. Harsin and football aside, I'm surprised that they've remained on this long. You'd think new Presidents and AD's would want to bring in their own people. 

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11 hours ago, eaglenest said:

So Saban did the same thing over there and everything was good and the rest is history. In hind sight than he wouldn't have made it over on the plains with his hells bell my way or the highway?

It just isn't an apples to apples comparison. Saban is a West Virginia born hard working yes mam, no mam, kind of man.  This isn't about being a hard ass or anything related to having high expectations. All of that can be done without being rude and disrespectful.  Have you ever worked for someone that seemed like a different person from day to day? That type of atmosphere never leads to any kind of sustained success.

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23 minutes ago, au302 said:

They probably love their jobs, because like any Civil Service employees, they can coast and not be held accountable. I've seen it first hand that type of environment breeds complacency. Probably why they hate it when strong personality figures like Harsin's or Galloways come in and shake things up. Harsin and football aside, I'm surprised that they've remained on this long. You'd think new Presidents and AD's would want to bring in their own people. 

We shouldn't compare Harsin to Galloway.  That really isn't fair to Harsin.  These are hard working loyal people, not disposable plates.  There is a value to having some consistency in an organization.  It isn't as though they are coaching and recruiting.

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4 hours ago, auburnphan said:

There were accusations of a hostile work environment.  What some administrative type people felt was hostile is normal business activity every where in the country.  Being expected to do your job to the best of your ability every day is not hostile.  Not saying good morning or happy birthday is not hostile.  What is hostile is creating rumors of an affair and spreading them to get a guy fired and harm his reputation.

Some people were putting in more effort to get a man fired than they did at their actual job, which was the problem in the first place, but they loved getting paid big money for being lazy.

JMHO

Those people need to be terminated immediately as well as anyone connected to the AD that continues to "leak" inner office information to AU beat writers, journalist,  reporters, bloggers, and media or message board administrators. 

The information that comes from "my sources tell me" and "people in the AD" and "insiders" have damaged Auburn's reputation for many years and it needs to stop.  We've been told that not one Auburn booster or BOT were part of that fiasco in February.  That means it was carried out by careless, self centered malcontents that do not have best interests in mind & shouldn't be draining the payroll while they work against this coaching staff. 

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33 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

We shouldn't compare Harsin to Galloway.  That really isn't fair to Harsin.  These are hard working loyal people, not disposable plates.  There is a value to having some consistency in an organization.  It isn't as though they are coaching and recruiting.

Do you think those hard working, loyal people who spread rumors in an effort to get CBH fired 3 months ago didn't affect recruiting?  They chose to strategically leak news of the investigation along with the salacious rumors immediately after NSD.   

Those people (person) should be unemployed now IMO.  It resulted in a black eye on Auburn and has most definitely been used to recruit against a coaching staff who was already struggling trying to bring in enough talent to compete in this conference.  

 

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8 minutes ago, JerryAU said:

Do you think those hard working, loyal people who spread rumors in an effort to get CBH fired 3 months ago didn't affect recruiting?  They chose to strategically leak news of the investigation along with the salacious rumors immediately after NSD.   

Those people (person) should be unemployed now IMO.  It resulted in a black eye on Auburn and has most definitely been used to recruit against a coaching staff who was already struggling trying to bring in enough talent to compete in this conference.  

 

You are assuming that their concerns weren't valid.  You are willing to tell good people that they should just shut their mouth and take it.  That isn't how it works, thankfully.  A man's character is best seen by how he treats others when nobody is watching.  I'm 100% willing to give Harsin the benefit of correcting those issues, but I am not willing to throw people in the trash bin that simply went thru the proper channels and let their concerns be known.  This isn't a professional ball club.  This is a public university.

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2 hours ago, au302 said:

They probably love their jobs, because like any Civil Service employees, they can coast and not be held accountable. I've seen it first hand that type of environment breeds complacency. Probably why they hate it when strong personality figures like Harsin's or Galloways come in and shake things up. Harsin and football aside, I'm surprised that they've remained on this long. You'd think new Presidents and AD's would want to bring in their own people. 

Galloway isn't a good use here. JP was also a dick, but he was the smile to your face and stab you with the other hand kinda guy. He wasn't loved or well liked by the staff or players. 

Galloway on the other hand was just an outward a**hole to all, a little more hard-nosed.  

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1 hour ago, AU9377 said:

You are assuming that their concerns weren't valid.  You are willing to tell good people that they should just shut their mouth and take it.  That isn't how it works, thankfully.  A man's character is best seen by how he treats others when nobody is watching.  I'm 100% willing to give Harsin the benefit of correcting those issues, but I am not willing to throw people in the trash bin that simply went thru the proper channels and let their concerns be known.  This isn't a professional ball club.  This is a public university.

When did I say the concerns weren't valid?  

I am 100% willing to tell an Auburn employee to shut their mouth and let the university take care of internal issues and allegations through their investigation without running to an Auburn beat writer, a message board administrator/poster or a media idiot to leak the information. 

I am 100% willing to put someone in the trash bin when they create an unsubstantiated salacious rumor about the coach & his assistant in order add fuel to an already volatile situation just because they want the coach terminated.

 

  

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, auburnphan said:

There were accusations of a hostile work environment.  What some administrative type people felt was hostile is normal business activity every where in the country.  Being expected to do your job to the best of your ability every day is not hostile.  Not saying good morning or happy birthday is not hostile.  What is hostile is creating rumors of an affair and spreading them to get a guy fired and harm his reputation.

Some people were putting in more effort to get a man fired than they did at their actual job, which was the problem in the first place, but they loved getting paid big money for being lazy.

 

I find it very interesting that you have so much supposed inside information into the legitimacy or illegitimacy of workplace complaints, all the way down to who was or wasn't putting in effort at their job. Most of these administrative types are completely nameless and faceless, but alas, you know which ones are just there to collect big paychecks for being lazy? Would you like to show your work and tell us all how you know this?

The sheer irony is astonishing. You are spreading your own rumors, in a literal post where you are talking about not spreading rumors.

Your post might carry more weight if we didn't already have correlating reports out of Boise State that reported similar behavior while he was there. The Occam's Razer here if you are familiar to the "environment" that Boise State people talk about, is that Harsin was raised and empowered in a system where the HC of Boise State's football team was the God of the entire community. He was empowered to do as he pleased, and no one could question otherwise. It is very obvious that he came to Auburn with a misguided sense of superiority.

Furthermore, why has there been a clear-cut shift in Bryan Harsin's interpersonal persona after this entire event took place? It literally looks like the kid who gets scolded for doing something he shouldn't, and then the very next day it's "mumsy dearest" as he cleans up his toys and makes his bed without anyone asking. If nothing was going on and it was just a case of lazy Auburn admin people not willing to do their jobs, why is Harsin behaving differently?

Edited by metafour
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5 hours ago, JerryAU said:

JMHO

Those people need to be terminated immediately as well as anyone connected to the AD that continues to "leak" inner office information to AU beat writers, journalist,  reporters, bloggers, and media or message board administrators. 

The information that comes from "my sources tell me" and "people in the AD" and "insiders" have damaged Auburn's reputation for many years and it needs to stop.  We've been told that not one Auburn booster or BOT were part of that fiasco in February.  That means it was carried out by careless, self centered malcontents that do not have best interests in mind & shouldn't be draining the payroll while they work against this coaching staff. 

Couldn't have said it better myself. It amazes me, and makes me laugh, that people will sit here and say that CBH needs to change the way he does things, but then stick up for the employee(s) that leaked this or who have likely caused trouble for years with leaks. And that goes vice versa. I'm not gonna say that the employees are bad and CBH did no wrong. Whoever leaked needs to be punished to the fullest extent.

I brought up Sunny Galloway because if you read the contents of his lawsuit it was very easy to see that there was dysfunction within the AD because people have been in the department for a long time and likely gotten complacent, or maybe were even in positions that they are not qualified for. The stance quickly changed from "we won't pay you a dime brother" to "here's a nice settlement, but please shut up quickly Sunny"

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6 minutes ago, au302 said:

Couldn't have said it better myself. It amazes me, and makes me laugh, that people will sit here and say that CBH needs to change the way he does things, but then stick up for the employee(s) that leaked this or who have likely caused trouble for years with leaks. And that goes vice versa. I'm not gonna say that the employees are bad and CBH did no wrong. Whoever leaked needs to be punished to the fullest extent.

I brought up Sunny Galloway because if you read the contents of his lawsuit it was very easy to see that there was dysfunction within the AD because people have been in the department for a long time and likely gotten complacent, or maybe were even in positions that they are not qualified for. The stance quickly changed from "we won't pay you a dime brother" to "here's a nice settlement, but please shut up quickly Sunny"

I also find it interesting that when Prez Roberts took over a couple of weeks ago one of our board insiders (WDE) posted that Roberts intends to clean house and get rid of the dead weight in the AD. 

I questioned that comment as I was under the impression that AD Greene had already culled a good number of AD staff years ago, so how was the dead weight allowed to accumulate under Greene's watch, etc.  

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29 minutes ago, JerryAU said:

I also find it interesting that when Prez Roberts took over a couple of weeks ago one of our board insiders (WDE) posted that Roberts intends to clean house and get rid of the dead weight in the AD. 

I questioned that comment as I was under the impression that AD Greene had already culled a good number of AD staff years ago, so how was the dead weight allowed to accumulate under Greene's watch, etc.  

What if WDE gets his information from one of the people in the AD office you want fired for leaking?

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3 minutes ago, CR said:

What if WDE gets his information from one of the people in the AD office you want fired for leaking?

Pretty sure WDE gets his information from quite a few different sources around the program, not only one or two, just for the record.

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3 hours ago, metafour said:

 

I find it very interesting that you have so much supposed inside information into the legitimacy or illegitimacy of workplace complaints, all the way down to who was or wasn't putting in effort at their job. Most of these administrative types are completely nameless and faceless, but alas, you know which ones are just there to collect big paychecks for being lazy? Would you like to show your work and tell us all how you know this?

The sheer irony is astonishing. You are spreading your own rumors, in a literal post where you are talking about not spreading rumors.

Your post might carry more weight if we didn't already have correlating reports out of Boise State that reported similar behavior while he was there. The Occam's Razer here if you are familiar to the "environment" that Boise State people talk about, is that Harsin was raised and empowered in a system where the HC of Boise State's football team was the God of the entire community. He was empowered to do as he pleased, and no one could question otherwise. It is very obvious that he came to Auburn with a misguided sense of superiority.

Furthermore, why has there been a clear-cut shift in Bryan Harsin's interpersonal persona after this entire event took place? It literally looks like the kid who gets scolded for doing something he shouldn't, and then the very next day it's "mumsy dearest" as he cleans up his toys and makes his bed without anyone asking. If nothing was going on and it was just a case of lazy Auburn admin people not willing to do their jobs, why is Harsin behaving differently?

over the years we tend to agree on most things.  My connections are few over the years between former players, coaches and some select alumni.  However, I have one person with complete knowledge  with what went down, could not be more directly involved with facts.  you have made up your mind off of numerous rumors and good for you, I will disagree with you across the board.  best of the day to you.

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7 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

Love a good insider "my rumors are better than your rumors" battle

I just don’t understand how all of the sudden people like Metafour, WDE, and PTB are suddenly being told they are dead wrong when for years they have shown they have legitimate sources.  I am sure they have whiffed here and there but their track record speaks for itself.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, abw0004 said:

I just don’t understand how all of the sudden people like Metafour, WDE, and PTB are suddenly being told they are dead wrong when for years they have shown they have legitimate sources.  I am sure they have whiffed here and there but their track record speaks for itself.

Could not agree more.

Edited by CR
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Okay… so back to the topic…

 

2 years ago, the consensus was that 8 wins a year was mediocrity. If that’s mediocrity, then last year was an abysmal failure. 
 

To keep his job, he should be required to at least reach mediocrity in year 2. And recruiting has to be at least a little better than it was last year. 2 straight years of sub or performances is not good enough. Anything less than that is in my opinion unacceptable, and he should be shown the door. With the nuances of college football, it takes less time to build or kill a program than it did in previous years. The whole “give them 4 years to put in their system” stuff is a thing of the past. 
 

That said, I doubt he gets ousted unless both recruiting and wins go down from last year. 

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4 hours ago, JerryAU said:

I also find it interesting that when Prez Roberts took over a couple of weeks ago one of our board insiders (WDE) posted that Roberts intends to clean house and get rid of the dead weight in the AD. 

I questioned that comment as I was under the impression that AD Greene had already culled a good number of AD staff years ago, so how was the dead weight allowed to accumulate under Greene's watch, etc.  

That would be good. Long overdue. I remember Greene cleaning some house at first, but not sure how much he was allowed to do. I know he was sort of Leath's figurehead, so who knows what he was allowed to do or not do. 

And @abw0004you pose a good question. My theory is that as more of the old guard has left, less and less sources are available. For example, I'm sure the Boise gang is tight and doesn't have connections with traditional sources. Same thing for ADAG and other areas of the department. Heck I'm not even sure if things were as widely available under Gus either. Who knows, just a guess

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So this is my thing about context...

Last year going into Texas A&M we were 6-2 and everyone was saying we got the new shiny coach.  It was all roses and chocolates. We lose to a quality Aggies team in a pretty competitive match (We definitely left points on the board). We then go on an unfortunate slide. Mississippi State game still bugs the hell out of me (A true tale of two halves). Then we lose our starting QB. We lose to an underwhelming USCe team, albeit in a game we still had the opportunity to have. We lose a nail biter to the NCs. We lose another close one to Houston. We had no business losing most of those games including Bama. That falls on the feet of the coaches MOSTLY.

 

However, when I look back, I also see missed opportunities here and there that changed the tide of the games. In both wins and losses last season. I did not fathom a six win season or a losing season (This should not be happening). But realistically, a lot of people outside of Auburn considered last year a rebuild season. I find solace that we were competitive in every game and majority of the missed opportunities were learnable mistakes from the coaching to the players. If we were clueless and just getting blown out, this would be a different story. I feel like this team can get 7-8 wins and keep building momentum. It should've happen last year. It needs to happen this year.

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9 hours ago, au302 said:

And @abw0004you pose a good question. My theory is that as more of the old guard has left, less and less sources are available. For example, I'm sure the Boise gang is tight and doesn't have connections with traditional sources. Same thing for ADAG and other areas of the department. Heck I'm not even sure if things were as widely available under Gus either. Who knows, just a guess

That could be true to an extent.  The thing is though, for example, PTB is still on Auburn's medical staff.  So what he is saying is with his own eyes being on the ground.  WDE's connections are with current assistants from last year and this year plus high school coaches.  Metafour is a high school coach himself I believe so whoever the current coach of Auburn football is he has to have some sort of connection with them if they ever want to recruit out of his high school.

I mean we have people going so far out of their way to make sure they are discredited a lot of quality posters will not post on this side of the forum anymore, including WDE.  Unfortunately one of the most universally respected posters on this forum has left entirely in the last few months and I am not sure if he will return.  Before you ask who, I am not at liberty to say out of respect, but one of the MOD's can address that if they would like.  That's where we are.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/25/2022 at 1:32 PM, W.E.D said:

Some where between 5-7 and 8-4

 

Recruiting will be about where it has been. Don't like how we're getting everyone's first OV.  Really should be closer to 10th or better considering how loaded the state is

On one of the AU pay sites this week a Auburn mod basically hinted we would not get a single top ten guy from the state of Alabama this cycle. Just so many ooooofs.

Edited by GwillMac6
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Posted (edited)
On 5/25/2022 at 2:53 PM, abw0004 said:

I chose 7 wins and a top 10 recruiting class but I would have also chosen 6 wins and a top 10 recruiting class.  All that matters is recruiting right now.

This. So much this. The only thing that matters to me is forward momentum in recruiting. Something we don't have any of. I could excuse the 0 for November if we were killing it on the recruiting trail.... All this perceived positive fluff from recruits  doesn't mean anything when we still aren't landing these guys. We are back to where we were before the chiz years where we are getting excited just to be in kids top ten and top 5 lists and getting OV's. It doesn't mean ish if they don't pop for AU. Moral victory U....

Edited by GwillMac6
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