January 6th Committee Hearings

[AUDynasty 585]

The first of its 6 installments of hearings just concluded. Any thoughts? The part that stuck out to me (and there were A LOT) was that multiple congresspeople asked for pardons for their role and involvement in this. I’ll have more thoughts but I’m just stunned by everything. 

[autigeremt 6,599]

They knew it was coming yet didn’t follow through with increased security. Our government is led by fools

[AU9377 4,925]

More than half of Republicans actually believe that Jan. 6th was just a peaceful walk around the capitol.  It is impossible to treat opinions with the respect they should have when they aren't grounded in reality.  This is why an election can be lost and immediately declared stolen.  The total lack of respect for the institutions of government, I believe, is rooted in the fact that they take this country for granted.

[AUFAN78 3,894]

1 hour ago, AUDynasty said:

The first of its 6 installments of hearings just concluded. Any thoughts? The part that stuck out to me (and there were A LOT) was that multiple congresspeople asked for pardons for their role and involvement in this. I’ll have more thoughts but I’m just stunned by everything. 

It was as bad as I remembered. Sad day.

[AUFAN78 3,894]

20 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

They knew it was coming yet didn’t follow through with increased security. Our government is led by fools

True. This entire disaster could have and should have been prevented. 

[AUFAN78 3,894]

5 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

More than half of Republicans actually believe that Jan. 6th was just a peaceful walk around the capitol.  It is impossible to treat opinions with the respect they should have when they aren't grounded in reality.  This is why an election can be lost and immediately declared stolen.  The total lack of respect for the institutions of government, I believe, is rooted in the fact that they take this country for granted.

Is that from a poll or personal experience?

[Cardin Drake 1,825]

This isn't going to get any traction outside of the left's core. We all saw the capitol police open the doors and invite the protesters into the capitol.  Any real investigation would start with finding out who gave that order.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Cardin Drake

[AUDynasty 585]

Some nuggets (as from this AP article). These are pretty clear in what happened, and what Trump's team really thought of the whole thing. 

Testimony showed Thursday how Trump desperately clung to his own false claims of election fraud, beckoning supporters to the Capitol on Jan. 6 when Congress would certify the results, despite those around him insisting Biden had won the election.

In a previously unseen video clip, the panel played a quip from former Attorney General Bill Barr who testified that he told Trump the claims of a rigged election were “bull——.”

In another, the former president’s daughter, Ivanka Trump, testified to the committee that she respected Barr’s view that there was no election fraud. “I accepted what he said.”

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There was an audible gasp in the hearing room when Cheney read an account that said when Trump was told the Capitol mob was chanting for Vice President Mike Pence to be hanged for refusing to block the election results. Trump responded that maybe they were right, that he “deserves it.”

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At another point it was disclosed that Rep. Scott Perry, R-Pa., a leader of efforts to object to the election results, had sought a pardon from Trump, which would protect him from prosecution.

When asked about the White House lawyers threatening to resign over what was happening in the administration, Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner scoffed they were “whining.”

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In wrenching testimony U.S. Capitol Police officer Caroline Edwards told the panel that she slipped in other people’s blood as rioters pushed past her into the Capitol. She suffered brain injuries in the melee.

“It was carnage. It was chaos,” she said.

The riot left more than 100 police officers injured, many beaten and bloodied, as the crowd of pro-Trump rioters, some armed with pipes, bats and bear spray, charged into the Capitol.

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Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee tweeted: “All. Old. News.”

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Court documents show that members of the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers were discussing as early as November a need to fight to keep Trump in office. Leaders both groups and some members have since been indicted on rare sedition charges over the military-style attack.

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The panel faced obstacles from its start. Republicans blocked the formation of an independent body that could have investigated the Jan. 6 assault the way the 9/11 Commission probed the 2001 terror attack.

[AUDynasty 585]

I'm not a fan of Mike Pence but he delivered during a massive crisis. And to think Trump supporters were chanting to hang him, and Trump to have the gall to say Pence deserved it. Just incredible.

[CoffeeTiger 5,101]

10 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

Is that from a poll or personal experience?

It's from polls: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/half-us-republicans-believe-left-led-jan-6-violence-reutersipsos-2022-06-09/

Granted Conservatives seem to be confused on what exactly they believe Jan 6th was. Some believe it was a peaceful "tourist visit" that was overblown while others believe it was a violent attack perpetrated by the Left and ANTIFA to try and make Trump supporters look bad. 

 

They believe different things, but one constant is that most republicans don't believe Trump or Trump supporters were at fault in any way for what happened. 

Although 55% of the Republicans polled said they believed the riot was led by violent left-wing protesters, nearly all of the 840 people arrested following the attack have been Trump supporters, according to U.S. prosecutors, and FBI Director Christopher Wray has said there was no evidence leftist extremists disguised themselves as Trump supporters during the attack.

The poll found 58% of Republicans said they believed most of the protesters were peaceful and law-abiding, even though four people died on the day of the attack, at least 140 police were assaulted, and one Capitol Police officer who fought against the rioters died the next day.

About two-thirds of Republicans believe the 2020 presidential election was stolen from Trump, a persistent view even though state and federal judges dismissed more than 50 lawsuits brought by Trump and his allies challenging the election while reviews and audits found no evidence of widespread fraud. read more

[AUDynasty 585]

26 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

It's from polls: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/half-us-republicans-believe-left-led-jan-6-violence-reutersipsos-2022-06-09/

Granted Conservatives seem to be confused on what exactly they believe Jan 6th was. Some believe it was a peaceful "tourist visit" that was overblown while others believe it was a violent attack perpetrated by the Left and ANTIFA to try and make Trump supporters look bad. 

 

They believe different things, but one constant is that most republicans don't believe Trump or Trump supporters were at fault in any way for what happened. 

Although 55% of the Republicans polled said they believed the riot was led by violent left-wing protesters, nearly all of the 840 people arrested following the attack have been Trump supporters, according to U.S. prosecutors, and FBI Director Christopher Wray has said there was no evidence leftist extremists disguised themselves as Trump supporters during the attack.

The poll found 58% of Republicans said they believed most of the protesters were peaceful and law-abiding, even though four people died on the day of the attack, at least 140 police were assaulted, and one Capitol Police officer who fought against the rioters died the next day.

About two-thirds of Republicans believe the 2020 presidential election was stolen from Trump, a persistent view even though state and federal judges dismissed more than 50 lawsuits brought by Trump and his allies challenging the election while reviews and audits found no evidence of widespread fraud. read more

When Fox News refused to show events like Jan. 6 Committee Hearing yesterday and put up Tucker Carlson to spew lies, you can see why Republicans were led to believe that the protests were led by leftists and that it was "peaceful". Heck, even Fox Business News covered the hearing yesterday!

During the hearing yesterday, Rep. Liz Cheney showed a screenshot of texts exchanged between Sean Hannity and Kayleigh McEnany in how Trump must stop peddling the lies of fraudulent elections and that Trump must step in and stop the riot immediately. 

Fox News is a cancer. 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

28 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

55% of the Republicans polled said they believed the riot was led by violent left-wing protesters

 

29 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

About two-thirds of Republicans believe the 2020 presidential election was stolen from Trump

This is the real danger to democracy.  How do you get so many people to believe the unbelievable? 

[CoffeeTiger 5,101]

1 hour ago, Cardin Drake said:

This isn't going to get any traction outside of the left's core. We all saw the capitol police open the doors and invite the protesters into the capitol.  Any real investigation would start with finding out who gave that order.

 

Yeah, Police are just letting 'em just walk in. So peaceful.... must be a setup to make Trumpkins look bad..

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Edited June 10, 2022 by CoffeeTiger

[icanthearyou 4,462]

These people are more partisan than patriotic, more ignorant than idealistic.

However, they do represent a growing discontent.  Those roughly 400 people who control our economy and government should take note.

 

 

[autigeremt 6,599]

1 hour ago, icanthearyou said:

 

This is the real danger to democracy.  How do you get so many people to believe the unbelievable? 

The real danger is the use of these events to create even more of a fissure. The country will not survive the fools put in place to lead it. 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

6 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

The real danger is the use of these events to create even more of a fissure. The country will not survive the fools put in place to lead it. 

The division is here.  We cannot ignore it.  It will not simply go away.  We have to honestly, intelligently deal with it. 

Democracy was nearly curtailed.  We need to understand how, why.

We cannot continue sweeping the dirt under the rug. 

[AUDynasty 585]

25 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

The real danger is the use of these events to create even more of a fissure. The country will not survive the fools put in place to lead it. 

This is so weird. Don't you want accountability for people who had committed sedition against the United States? 

If this were the other way, and this was Biden leading the coup and egging his supporters to attack the Capitol, wouldn't you want the the committee to be similar to Jan. 6 Committee investigating what happened and delivering the facts -- which included actual, live testimonies, footage, images, and screenshots of tweets -- and to bring accountability to people who have wronged the country?

The fools from the previous administration nearly ended our country. And if there were no accountability or justice for these people right now, then the country will die. That's no hyperbole.

[autigeremt 6,599]

1 hour ago, AUDynasty said:

This is so weird. Don't you want accountability for people who had committed sedition against the United States? 

If this were the other way, and this was Biden leading the coup and egging his supporters to attack the Capitol, wouldn't you want the the committee to be similar to Jan. 6 Committee investigating what happened and delivering the facts -- which included actual, live testimonies, footage, images, and screenshots of tweets -- and to bring accountability to people who have wronged the country?

The fools from the previous administration nearly ended our country. And if there were no accountability or justice for these people right now, then the country will die. That's no hyperbole.

Accountability can take place through the justice system. These fools need to be working on the problems everyday Americans are facing. This is a freaking sideshow to the crimes committed on that day.

[Cardin Drake 1,825]

Protesters being allowed into the capitol by the police.   Things you won't see on CNN or youtube. Sorry, video won't embed.

https://vimeo.com/703055418

 

[autigeremt 6,599]

2 minutes ago, Cardin Drake said:

Protesters being allowed into the capitol by the police.   Things you won't see on CNN or youtube. Sorry, video won't embed.

https://vimeo.com/703055418

 

Now you can't be posting alternative facts.....  

[homersapien 11,366]

11 minutes ago, Cardin Drake said:

Protesters being allowed into the capitol by the police.   Things you won't see on CNN or youtube. Sorry, video won't embed.

https://vimeo.com/703055418

 

So a couple of capitol police were traitors, corrupt,  or just idiots?

So what? That doesn't exactly change the reality of what happened.

[AUDynasty 585]

30 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

Accountability can take place through the justice system. These fools need to be working on the problems everyday Americans are facing. This is a freaking sideshow to the crimes committed on that day.

Right, and this is what accountability looks like. The committee is delivering the American public what happened with facts composed of live interviews, aired testimonies, footage, images, and screenshots.

How do we avoid another Jan. 6? This is it.

[Cardin Drake 1,825]

7 minutes ago, homersapien said:

So a couple of capitol police were traitors, corrupt,  or just idiots?

one more or belongs in there, or were the police  just following orders?....you'd think this blue-ribbon investigation would get to the bottom of this critical fact. Did Republican insurrectionists arrange to let them in the capitol?   Or was the whole thing orchestrated by Pelosi and her minions?  Reasonable people can infer the answer by contemplating who it is not asking the question.

[AUDynasty 585]

15 minutes ago, Cardin Drake said:

one more or belongs in there, or were the police  just following orders?....you'd think this blue-ribbon investigation would get to the bottom of this critical fact. Did Republican insurrectionists arrange to let them in the capitol?   Or was the whole thing orchestrated by Pelosi and her minions?  Reasonable people can infer the answer by contemplating who it is not asking the question.

Nancy Pelosi? You're not serious. You're literally putting your head in the sand. Why would she put her own life in danger? 

Here's a BBC article detailing what happened.

"At the same time, Ms Pelosi is rushed from the house floor. She is evacuated entirely from the Capitol complex to a secure off-site location.

Her staff barricade themselves into a conference room, hiding under a table.

Staff members of the House leader speak softly, frantically, to each other. Just outside, rioters are spreading out across the building, searching for Ms Pelosi herself.

The rioters chant: "'Where are you Nancy?'" In an audio clip, we hear one staff member whisper: "'They're pounding on doors trying to find her.'"

One man breaks open the outer door to the office where the staff are hiding, but not the inner door. Another tries as well, but eventually moves on."

Edited June 10, 2022 by AUDynasty

[homersapien 11,366]

50 minutes ago, Cardin Drake said:

one more or belongs in there, or were the police  just following orders?....you'd think this blue-ribbon investigation would get to the bottom of this critical fact. Did Republican insurrectionists arrange to let them in the capitol?   Or was the whole thing orchestrated by Pelosi and her minions?  Reasonable people can infer the answer by contemplating who it is not asking the question.

I certainly don't think they were following orders in letting them in. 

But the committee's presentation is far from over.  If they were it will come to light.

I noticed many instances in which the police yielded ground to advancing protestors.  I do not know what SOP would be in such a case but if someone is advancing on you carrying a flag inside the capitol, would you be authorized to shoot them?

I don't think so.