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it seems many corps like big oil and tyson's are both making record profits while joe american is getting screwed big time. how did we get here and what do we do about it? i read on yahoo that biden has no authority to make these guys lower their rates which is weird. why are their no laws protecting us when it comes to this kind of crap? and how the hell do we get out of this mess?

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This one is easy Fifty.  It started on January 21st 2021 when Joe Biden enacted several EO’s to wipe out our energy independence in favor of his climate change agenda.  This enabled Russia to create leverage over European countries that were already heavily invested in climates change and left themselves vulnerable to dependance on Russian oil.  Germany, as an example, is starting up their coal plants again in anticipation of energy needs this winter as they know solar and wind is not going to be enough to sustain energy needs this winter.  They are afraid Russia may cut off natural gas for heating at any time.  That’s how we got here.

Companies making huge profits are an offshoot of inflation.  They are making hay while the sun shines, as they know it won’t last.  The oil companies know that Biden campaigned on ending fossil fuels and his actions have proven he is serious.  So the oil companies are turning a blind eye to his requests as they are trying (I imagine) to make profit before Biden shuts them down.  The guy is a moron.

Biden has no authority to regulate rates because the oil industry, unlike a utility (electric, etc), does not come under the purview of the government.  We don’t need the government to run our lives.  This is why elections matter.

How do we get out of it, you ask?  Get Biden out of office asap, but that won’t happen for another 2 and a half years.  We can hope he sees what he has created and start looking out for the American people as oppose to his idea of utopia, but that is not likely

Biden:  Running America is as easy as riding a bike.

Edited by I_M4_AU
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https://www.api.org/news-policy-and-issues/news/2022/06/16/trade-groups-respond-to-president-biden-letter-to-us-refiners

https://www.api.org/-/media/Files/News/Letters-Comments/2022/20220615 POTUS Letter re Refining Capacity FINAL_AFPM_API.pdf

Trade Groups Respond to President Biden’s Letter to U.S. Refiners

 

202.682.8114 | press@api.org


 

WASHINGTON, June 16, 2022 – Last night, American Petroleum Institute (API) President and CEO Mike Sommers and American Fuel & Petrochemical Manufacturers (AFPM) President and CEO Chet Thompson sent a letter to President Biden responding to recent letters the Administration sent to major U.S. fuel refiners suggesting that these companies, their workforces and facilities throughout the country aren’t doing their part to bring fuel to the market and lower energy costs for consumers. An excerpt of the joint letter, which notes that U.S. refiners are running at a world-leading 94% of capacity, follows:

“Our industry is dedicated to providing affordable, reliable, and sustainable fuels and other petroleum products for Americans and our global allies, as we have done for decades, including throughout the COVID pandemic when many of our companies experienced financial losses.

“With a global energy crunch underway, much focus has been placed on crude oil supply and demand. Yet crude oil has no utilitarian value until it runs through a refinery and gets processed into fuels like wholesale gasoline, diesel and jet fuel. Because of this, it’s not an overstatement to say that energy security requires a strong refining sector.

“AFPM, API, and our member companies appreciated the opportunity to make contact with your administration—as recently as this week— both to share data and analysis on what is happening in global energy markets and to provide concrete and practicable solutions for addressing today’s high-price environment. Our analysis and that of independent experts include the following seven realities:

  1. Refined product prices are determined on the global markets.
  2. U.S. refineries are operating at or near maximum utilization.
  3. About one-third of recent refining capacity loss is due to conversions to renewable fuel production.
  4. U.S. refining is a long-cycle business.
  5. Even if refiners could bring more refining capacity online despite these challenges, the result could be higher demand and higher costs for crude oil.
  6. Current market conditions are complex and require a closer look.
  7. U.S. refiners are, in fact, adding new U.S. refining capacity where it makes business sense."

Click here to view the letter.

API represents all segments of America’s natural gas and oil industry, which supports more than 11 million U.S. jobs and is backed by a growing grassroots movement of millions of Americans. Our nearly 600 members produce, process and distribute the majority of the nation’s energy, and participate in API Energy Excellence®, which is accelerating environmental and safety progress by fostering new technologies and transparent reporting. API was formed in 1919 as a standards-setting organization and has developed more than 800 standards to enhance operational and environmental safety, efficiency and sustainability.

The American Fuel & Petrochemical Manufacturers (AFPM) is the leading trade association representing the makers of the fuels that keep us moving, the petrochemicals that are the essential building blocks for modern life, and the midstream companies that get our feedstocks and products where they need to go. We make the products that make life better, safer and more sustainable—we make progress.

###

 

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2 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

it seems many corps like big oil and tyson's are both making record profits while joe american is getting screwed big time. how did we get here and what do we do about it? i read on yahoo that biden has no authority to make these guys lower their rates which is weird. why are their no laws protecting us when it comes to this kind of crap? and how the hell do we get out of this mess?

Couple of articles from past weeks fiddy

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/07/1097177459/big-oil-exxon-earnings-gasoline-prices-crude


analysts have long dismissed accusations of price gouging as too simplistic.

 

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/07/1097177459/big-oil-exxon-earnings-gasoline-prices-crude

 

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1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

Couple of articles from past weeks fiddy

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/07/1097177459/big-oil-exxon-earnings-gasoline-prices-crude


analysts have long dismissed accusations of price gouging as too simplistic.

 

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/07/1097177459/big-oil-exxon-earnings-gasoline-prices-crude

 

Wall St. analysts aren't exactly free from bias.  While "too simplistic" is accurate, it does not exclude price gouging as a factor.

Demand plummeted during the outbreak of COVID.  The losses are now being socialized.  The power of the major companies allows them to tax society.

The war in Ukraine, the Saudis unwillingness to meaningfully raise production (see:Yemen, Kashoggi), uptick in demand (the increase in demand is far from enough to explain most of the price increase) are all factors.

IMHO, the refining argument (sweet or sour) is a red herring.  The same factors are always driving the price of oil.  Those factors are greed (which sometimes works to the advantage of the consumer through overproduction) and, global politics. 

In the end, we are a free market economy.  Our president has little control.  Rulers of countries/economies like Putin and MBS have absolute control. 

Should we bend to the will of these rulers or, should we pay the price?  The only other choice might be to nationalize our oil industry.

A partisan political analysis only serves a partisan ends.  This is politics on a much larger scale.

Edited by icanthearyou
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11 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

it seems many corps like big oil and tyson's are both making record profits while joe american is getting screwed big time. how did we get here and what do we do about it? i read on yahoo that biden has no authority to make these guys lower their rates which is weird. why are their no laws protecting us when it comes to this kind of crap? and how the hell do we get out of this mess?

Start with the understanding that corporations have only one objective - maximize profits.

Our system does not bestow the power on the POTUS to arbitrarily make them lower their rates, and probably never will, which is arguably a good thing, depending on one's politics.

The compromise - which we apparently cannot achieve - relies on regulations designed to benefit the common good.

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8 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

That "environmental agenda" is the agenda that is in the long term interests of the country. (Can't fool mother nature.) 

The immediate gas price problem is related to refining capacity.  There's not a damn thing any president could do in the short term to address that.  To that point, the response from the oil industry to Biden's criticisms was correct.

But longer term we need decrease petroleum consumption.  This current shortage (of gasoline) may be a blessing in disguise by accelerating that. 

Of course, that won't help Biden politically.

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3 hours ago, homersapien said:

That "environmental agenda" is the agenda that is in the long term interests of the country. (Can't fool mother nature.) 

The immediate gas price problem is related to refining capacity.  There's not a damn thing any president could do in the short term to address that.  To that point, the response from the oil industry to Biden's criticisms was correct.

But longer term we need decrease petroleum consumption.  This current shortage (of gasoline) may be a blessing in disguise by accelerating that. 

Of course, that won't help Biden politically.

Biden is a dead man walking.

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25 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

 

 

Appalling to watch our leaders stab our country in the back for the sake of personal political gain.  Anyone with a functioning brain understands that ending the Afghan war has nothing to do with Ukraine.

I wouldn't expect otherwise from a Trump supporter.  They are not, never were patriots.

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43 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Appalling to watch our leaders stab our country in the back for the sake of personal political gain.  Anyone with a functioning brain understands that ending the Afghan war has nothing to do with Ukraine.

I wouldn't expect otherwise from a Trump supporter.  They are not, never were patriots.

Ending the war in Afghanistan had nothing to do with the war in Ukraine, I agree.  How we abandoned our post and left hundreds of US citizens in Afghanistan and basically coward to the Taliban’s demands during the last days of the *evacuation* certainly did empower Russia.

I’m sure we disagree on this.

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On 6/21/2022 at 12:19 PM, I_M4_AU said:

Biden has no authority to regulate rates because the oil industry, unlike a utility (electric, etc), does not come under the purview of the government.  We don’t need the government to run our lives.  This is why elections matter.

How do we get out of it, you ask?  Get Biden out of office asap, but that won’t happen for another 2 and a half years. 

 

And you don't see the contradiction in your own words?

First, you acknowledge Biden doesn't have the power to magically lower gas rates, the follow that up with stating the solution is to get him out of office asap.  :rolleyes:

 

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21 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Right,  Heritage Foundation.  :-\

Aiding the transition from fossil fuels to solar is bad for the country. You betcha.

What's the matter, couldn't find anything from Fox?

Edited by homersapien
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12 hours ago, homersapien said:

That "environmental agenda" is the agenda that is in the long term interests of the country. (Can't fool mother nature.) 

The immediate gas price problem is related to refining capacity.  There's not a damn thing any president could do in the short term to address that.  To that point, the response from the oil industry to Biden's criticisms was correct.

But longer term we need decrease petroleum consumption.  This current shortage (of gasoline) may be a blessing in disguise by accelerating that. 

Of course, that won't help Biden politically.

The operative phrase here is *long term*.  Why would any President wage a war on the fossil fuel industry by restricting it’s operations and consequently that industry reduced capacity as they saw the writing on the wall,  and then blame that industry because of the reduced capacity.  Americans are not stupid, they see Biden’s weaseling.

Biden has stated he thinks this is.a *blessing in disguise*, but that doesn’t stop the pain the American people are feeling.  The oil industry will take, from what I understand, 18 months to gin up capacity and then what?  Biden pulls the rug out from under them?

The man is a horrible manager of crisis.

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6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

And you don't see the contradiction in your own words?

First, you acknowledge Biden doesn't have the power to magically lower gas rates, the follow that up with stating the solution is to get him out of office asap.  :rolleyes:

 

 The contradiction that’s the issue is Biden pushed the oil companies to reduce oil production and not wants them to  pick it up overnight 

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7 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Right,  Heritage Foundation.  :-\

Couldn't find anything from Fox?

Make sure you attack the source, not the content.  Nice.

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5 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

The operative phrase here is *long term*.  Why would any President wage a war on the fossil fuel industry by restricting it’s operations and consequently that industry reduced capacity as they saw the writing on the wall,  and then blame that industry because of the reduced capacity.  Americans are not stupid, they see Biden’s weaseling.

Biden has stated he thinks this is.a *blessing in disguise*, but that doesn’t stop the pain the American people are feeling.  The oil industry will take, from what I understand, 18 months to gin up capacity and then what?  Biden pulls the rug out from under them?

The man is a horrible manager of crisis.

How exactly is Biden "restricting" the fossil fuel industry?

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2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Make sure you attack the source, not the content.  Nice.

 

I attack their stupid positions - in this case, proposing that encouraging the transitioning from fossil fuels is bad for the country.

(And everyone knows the Heritage Foundation is hopelessly political in their worldview.  Everyone.)

But keep quoting these sources. It only reveals your lack of impartial reasoned analysis. (As if there were any doubt.)

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6 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

 The contradiction that’s the issue is Biden pushed the oil companies to reduce oil production and not wants them to  pick it up overnight 

Again, oil production has nothing to do with the price of gas.  The problem is with refining capacity.

If you want to go after Biden, then go after his failure(?) to acknowledge that increasing production won't affect the price of gas.

You are not interested in the facts. You just want to trash Biden when there's not a thing he can do about this in the short term.

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10 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

 The contradiction that’s the issue is Biden pushed the oil companies to reduce oil production and not wants them to  pick it up overnight 

And where did Biden "push" the oil companies to reduce oil production?  How about referencing that?

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3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

How exactly is Biden restricting the fossil fuel industry?

 TO: Republican Study Committee members
FROM: Chairman Jim Banks
DATE: March 25, 2022
RE: A Promise Kept: Biden’s War on American Energy
A Promise Kept:
Biden’s War on American Energy
On September 9, 2019, then-candidate Joe Biden made a clear and unequivocal promise:  I want you to just take a look. I want you to look into my eyes. I guarantee you; I guarantee you, we are going to end fossil fuel, and I am not going to cooperate with them.”


At the Republican Study Committee, we hoped Biden was bluffing. After all, he made all kinds of crazy promises on the campaign trail. But we decided to take a closer look. Biden promised a War on Energy. 15 months into his presidency, gas prices reached an all-time high. Is that because Joe Biden actually kept a promise?
I had my staff do a deep dive, and the results are startling. President Biden has waged an unprecedent, government-wide assault on our nation’s ability to produce cheap, reliable energy.

Below is a list of the Biden administration’s anti-energy actions, side-by-side with the average price Americans paid at the pump that week. Do you notice a trend?
Here’s a comprehensive breakdown of Biden’s fight to “end fossil fuels,” and its costs for American consumers:
  

https://barr.house.gov/_cache/files/1/7/17ec008b-f7ea-49e6-b614-ea9b4dd12d6f/16871653E745FF6D04D065F4E6DE8623.a-promise-kept-biden-s-war-on-energy-final-002-.pdf

This PDF paints exactly how Biden waged war on the fossil fuel industry.  This chart goes from 1/20/2021 to March of 2020 and lists each time Biden waged his war and the resulting price hike.  This is all before the Ukraine war.

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