Mike Farrell on Harsin

[Didba 5,256]

3 hours ago, MaitlandTiger said:

I’m not convinced we have the coaching in terms of play-calling.

Explain further please.

[Hank2020 3,195]

8 minutes ago, Didba said:

Persona doesn't build programs.

Usually helps in recruiting (at least before NIL). Not sure anyone knows what helps now.

[au302 2,669]

9 minutes ago, Didba said:

Explain further please.

@DidbaI'm a fan of Keys and appreciate guys that grind their way up the coaching ranks like he has for many years, but I do see what he's saying. Last year we'd come out the gates with brilliant play-calling on the scripted drives. Then after that everything went to hell and it looked like we were focused on being 50/50 run/pass instead of taking what the defense gave us. I'm inclined to blame a lot of that on Bobo, but I also think we gotta wait to see if that continues because it's possible Harsin told Bobo to do that I guess.

[Didba 5,256]

2 minutes ago, au302 said:

@DidbaI'm a fan of Keys and appreciate guys that grind their way up the coaching ranks like he has for many years, but I do see what he's saying. Last year we'd come out the gates with brilliant play-calling on the scripted drives. Then after that everything went to hell and it looked like we were focused on being 50/50 run/pass instead of taking what the defense gave us. I'm inclined to blame a lot of that on Bobo, but I also think we gotta wait to see if that continues because it's possible Harsin told Bobo to do that I guess.

Harsin is calling plays not Kiesau.

[Hank2020 3,195]

4 minutes ago, Didba said:

Harsin is calling plays not Kiesau.

I don’t think that is what I read. I thought I read where it would be the OC calling plays.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Hank2020

[au302 2,669]

21 minutes ago, Didba said:

Harsin is calling plays not Kiesau.

I'm cool with this. Knew that was the plan with Austin Davis, but figured he may have reversed course once we had to promote Keys

[Didba 5,256]

53 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

I don’t think that is what I read. I thought I read where it would be the OC calling plays.

 

34 minutes ago, au302 said:

I'm cool with this. Knew that was the plan with Austin Davis, but figured he may have reversed course once we had to promote Keys

Hmm... well maybe not then.  Cannot find any recent quote that says one way or the other.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Didba

[MaitlandTiger 325]

1 hour ago, Didba said:

Explain further please.

I don’t have the football knowledge to explain further than, as a layman, I feel we had poor offensive play calling last year in key situations, and it was vanilla in general. Certainly not overly creative in general.  Perhaps not as predictable as Gus, but just not good.  

[Hank2020 3,195]

36 minutes ago, Didba said:

 

Hmm... well maybe not then.  Cannot find any recent quote that says one way or the other.

I don’t remember where I read it, but do remember it was talking about Kiesau calling the plays before for Harsin so they thought he would be again. 

[Mikey 16,550]

3 hours ago, Didba said:

Explain further please.

No explanation needed. Simply look at any random AU game from last season. Play calling is pitiful, after the few opening series Bobo scripted and Bobo is gone.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,641]

I think anyone pretending to know what the PC split was last season is fooling themselves 

From what I understand/have read, Harsin was more hands off with respect to PCing as his Boise career progressed and Bobo hasn’t been good in most of our recruits active sports careers. So for our sakes, hopefully it was Mike’s fault primarily. The Houston game (that I believe CBH called solo) played out like much of the other losses on the streak, but an uninspiring wash of a bowl game performance isn’t something that always has one obvious root cause, as we’ve seen for the last decade or so 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Dual-Threat Rigby

[Didba 5,256]

2 hours ago, MaitlandTiger said:

I don’t have the football knowledge to explain further than, as a layman, I feel we had poor offensive play calling last year in key situations, and it was vanilla in general. Certainly not overly creative in general.  Perhaps not as predictable as Gus, but just not good.  

But Bobo called those games who is gone and I asked you about your implication that we don't have the current coaching in terms of play-calling. "I’m not convinced we have the coaching in terms of play-calling." implies an issue with the current staff but your explanation targets issues from a coach that is not on the staff any longer.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Didba

[Didba 5,256]

5 minutes ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

I think anyone pretending to know what the PC split was last season is fooling themselves 

From what I understand/have read, Harsin was more hands off with respect to PCing as his Boise career progressed and Bobo hasn’t been good in most of our recruits active sports careers. So for our sakes, hopefully it was Mike’s fault primarily. The Houston game (that I believe CBH called solo) played out like much of the other losses on the streak, but an uninspiring wash of a bowl game performance isn’t something that always has one obvious root cause, as we’ve seen for the last decade or so 

The playcalling was different in the bowl game, IMO, the execution was lacking.

[Didba 5,256]

30 minutes ago, Mikey said:

No explanation needed. Simply look at any random AU game from last season. Play calling is pitiful, after the few opening series Bobo scripted and Bobo is gone.

You misunderstand what I was asking him to explain.  He said "I’m not convinced we have the coaching in terms of play-calling." which implies that the play-calling ability of the current staff is lacking, which has nothing to do with Bobo or any of the play-calling from last season.

[au302 2,669]

1 hour ago, Didba said:

The playcalling was different in the bowl game, IMO, the execution was lacking.

One of the greatest questions we'll never know is how that playbook was created last year. I've watched a lot of Boise highlights. I don't claim to know much about X's and O's, but even I could tell that our offense last year was not really like the one I see on YouTube.

Boise under Harsin seemed to use a lot more shifts, motions, sweeps, off-set I, tempo, and RB's in the passing game. Last year we seemed way more slow and traditional, so to speak. Our vintage play was toss sweep, which did work. We did not use our main tailbacks in the passing game as much as Boise would use theirs. Instead we had a designated 3rd down back (Shivers), which worked on and off. Seemed to get a little predictable.

I will say that the bowl and spring games looked more similar to Boise, for better or worse. Increased usage of Tank and Jarquez in the passing game. More motions, shifts, sweeps, etc. A lot more under center in the spring game. Even had some offset I and single back/two TE formations. 

Coach Pink on On3 speculated that as of the bowl game Harsin only had 25% of the Boise playbook in our playbook. Likely due to a combo of Bobo plays in there, us not having the personnel for much of his playbook, and only having one offseason. Can't implement a playbook that big that quickly. Interested to see how things change this year, if they do.

What you thinking? Think we'll see the traditional Harsin offense this year?

[Didba 5,256]

7 minutes ago, au302 said:

One of the greatest questions we'll never know is how that playbook was created last year. I've watched a lot of Boise highlights. I don't claim to know much about X's and O's, but even I could tell that our offense last year was not really like the one I see on YouTube.

Boise under Harsin seemed to use a lot more shifts, motions, sweeps, off-set I, tempo, and RB's in the passing game. Last year we seemed way more slow and traditional, so to speak. Our vintage play was toss sweep, which did work. We did not use our main tailbacks in the passing game as much as Boise would use theirs. Instead we had a designated 3rd down back (Shivers), which worked on and off. Seemed to get a little predictable.

I will say that the bowl and spring games looked more similar to Boise, for better or worse. Increased usage of Tank and Jarquez in the passing game. More motions, shifts, sweeps, etc. A lot more under center in the spring game. Even had some offset I and single back/two TE formations. 

Coach Pink on On3 speculated that as of the bowl game Harsin only had 25% of the Boise playbook in our playbook. Likely due to a combo of Bobo plays in there, us not having the personnel for much of his playbook, and only having one offseason. Can't implement a playbook that big that quickly. Interested to see how things change this year, if they do.

What you thinking? Think we'll see the traditional Harsin offense this year?

These are all great points and yes, I think Harsin's playbook is massive and complex so I believe that only 25% was in by the bowl game.

5 WR sets appeared in the bowl game and I had not seen them the entire fall season, we will also continue to utilize 2-3 TE sets to run and pass out of.  TBH, I expect the offensive scheme and play-calling to look similar to Tampa bay with Tampa Tom.  Now, I am not saying the QB play will be on that level but the design of plays and personnel sets will be similar.

I want our TEs to be utilized like Gronk is.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,641]

2 hours ago, Didba said:

The playcalling was different in the bowl game, IMO, the execution was lacking.

it opened up well from what I remember, there were a few deep shots lined up past that, but there were some misses 

I don't honestly remember much minutia, but the general vibe of the offense as I recall was similar. I didn't bring it up to bury or praise Harsin, just to say that there wasn't much different from what we had with the Bobo "led" games. Like even that description you used, that could apply to maybe 1/3rd of the games from last year 

Again, all that to say that I don't think last year could be used to prove or negate the premise that Harsin can't call bc we don't have enough information on who did what 

[IronMan70 3,277]

1 hour ago, au302 said:

What you thinking? Think we'll see the traditional Harsin offense this year?

I think we'll be going full Boise this year. Harsin also hired just the right guy to install a pro offense in the WR room when he got Ike Hilliard. He will make the WRs understand what being a pro WR is all about in every phase of the game.

[Didba 5,256]

1 hour ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

it opened up well from what I remember, there were a few deep shots lined up past that, but there were some misses 

I don't honestly remember much minutia, but the general vibe of the offense as I recall was similar. I didn't bring it up to bury or praise Harsin, just to say that there wasn't much different from what we had with the Bobo "led" games. Like even that description you used, that could apply to maybe 1/3rd of the games from last year 

Again, all that to say that I don't think last year could be used to prove or negate the premise that Harsin can't call bc we don't have enough information on who did what 

also as pointed out if Harsin was calling plays from Bob's installed offense then inherently they would be similar.

[au302 2,669]

53 minutes ago, IronMan70 said:

I think we'll be going full Boise this year. Harsin also hired just the right guy to install a pro offense in the WR room when he got Ike Hilliard. He will make the WRs understand what being a pro WR is all about in every phase of the game.

Music to my ears, and agreed on Ike. I already like where he's got that room heading. 6 new faces counting King. Then guys like Dawson and MJJ that should play larger roles. That rotation may look totally different than last years. Hopefully for the better

[MaitlandTiger 325]

13 hours ago, Didba said:

But Bobo called those games who is gone and I asked you about your implication that we don't have the current coaching in terms of play-calling. "I’m not convinced we have the coaching in terms of play-calling." implies an issue with the current staff but your explanation targets issues from a coach that is not on the staff any longer.

True.   Let’s see what this year brings.  I’m excited. I think we will be far better than the doom and groomers think. 

[Mikey 16,550]

10 hours ago, IronMan70 said:

Harsin also hired just the right guy to install a pro offense in the WR room when he got Ike Hilliard. He will make the WRs understand what being a pro WR is all about in every phase of the game.

Hiring Hillyard is by far the most impressive action Harsin has taken since his arrival at Auburn. Lets hope this accomplishment portends better things in the future.

[Hank2020 3,195]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

Hiring Hillyard is by far the most impressive action Harsin has taken since his arrival at Auburn. Lets hope this accomplishment portends better things in the future.

I think keeping Williams was equal to it too.

[Mikey 16,550]

4 hours ago, Hank2020 said:

I think keeping Williams was equal to it too.

It was a good move, but Caddy was already here. The Hillyard thing came from out of the blue.

[Hank2020 3,195]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

It was a good move, but Caddy was already here. The Hillyard thing came from out of the blue.

I gotcha, I just put them on equal footing due to many new coaches clean house. But understand your premise. I am good with giving an edge to the Hilliard hire as a great move by Harsin.