Auburn is at a cross road

[DAG 33,961]

1 hour ago, AUght2win said:

To this day I don’t want Smart. Call me crazy. He JUST beat Saban for the first time and has only won the SEC once in an absolutely dreadful East.

His results here would not be much better than Gus’ were. Maybe a little bit better W-L wise but not title-wise. 

That’s your opinion which I absolutely don’t agree with just from the fact I believe he would recruit like hell and have the right coaches in place. 

[homersapien 11,357]

2 hours ago, Barnacle said:

This is exactly how the situation read to everyone looking at it from the outside in. Whether the investigation was legitimate was beside the point. It was allowed to be played out in the public, with salacious rumors left unattended, and in my opinion it was designed that way to leverage Harsin into accepting a reduced buy-out. Of course people at Auburn with influence care about the University and the football program. Of course they do. But they are still people, and it's well established that Harsin thumbed his nose at many of those same people in and around the program when he arrived. Whether you accept that Auburn allowed power-brokers to co-opt the investigation to force Harsin out is also beside the point. The stigma that Auburn suffers from intermeddling boosters has long existed, and what occurred in February only served to further perpetuate that stigma. 

 Great post except for that "well established that Harsin thumbed his nose...."   statement.

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by homersapien

[Carnell 592]

1 hour ago, AUght2win said:

The rumor did not start the investigation. The mass exodus of players, coaches, and then going 0-fer on NSD started the investigation.

I’m not even sure the affair stuff was ever seriously looked into.

If those are the reasons for starting an investigation, someone come in an please save Auburn.  With the transfer portal such as it is transfers are going to be frequent and if we have to hire a replacement for Harsin in the future I guess he will have to face an investigation because none are his players and they transfered out.  And why does Harsin need to be investigated for going 0 Fer on signing day especially during the early signing period and the praise we reaped upon him for the great recovery.

 

[Barnacle 9,064]

14 minutes ago, DAG said:

This is the problem I have though. There needs to be an understanding here in professionalism.  A personal relationship and professional one. The boosters need to understand they have their doing and the coach does too. There shouldn’t need to be a situation where they need to be friends, play golf , etc. If CBH does get fired , and they hire a dude, I am pretty sure those guys who I consider dudes are going to be of that mindset. Additionally, if you you are doing grey area stuff, the less friends you have the better.  I will do what I have to do, you will do what you have to do (wink, wink) and we move on. That is another problem with Auburn. That’s how Miami got busted back in the day too. Doing that friendship stuff and letting a particular booster on the sideline. He then had legal problems and photo evidence tied him into the Miami program because he was on the sideline and running out with the team.

With that being said, he absolutely should have a personal level with his team and players. That was his major downfall. 

Yeah I think you’re right. Inviting close personal relationships is unwise, especially in an industry with so much turnover, and for all the other reasons you listed. I would imagine that in situations where a coach has been somewhere long term that selective, trusted relationships develop naturally, but these coaches don’t have time to go make friends.  I do think there has to be some level of engagement/politicking/salesmanship that’s required of a college football coach that Harsin reportedly wasn’t interested in initially. Harsin clearly has a night and day different personality than Gus, and those differences probably exacerbated whatever issues people had with him. 

But, you’re right, the interpersonal issues with players and coaches are obviously the greatest priority. I’m glad to see reports about this years team having better buy in and relationships with the staff. Should go a long way. 

[DAG 33,961]

Just now, Barnacle said:

Yeah I think you’re right. Inviting close personal relationships is unwise, especially in an industry with so much turnover, and for all the other reasons you listed. I would imagine that in situations where a coach has been somewhere long term that selective, trusted relationships develop naturally, but these coaches don’t have time to go make friends.  I do think there has to be some level of engagement/politicking/salesmanship that’s required of a college football coach that Harsin reportedly wasn’t interested in initially. Harsin clearly has a night and day different personality than Gus, and those differences probably exacerbated whatever issues people had with him. 

But, you’re right, the interpersonal issues with players and coaches are obviously the greatest priority. I’m glad to see reports about this years team having better buy in and relationships with the staff. Should go a long way. 

I agree . I am sure Gus and Gene both did that but if I remember correctly they also alluded to too many people in the kitchen after they left as well too. 
 

But let me tell you , the Urban Meyers and Bob Stoops of the world will not be coming here with that in mind. I think that overreach is exactly why Auburn has all of these issues. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

30 minutes ago, homersapien said:

 Great post except for that "well established that Harsin thumbed his nose...."   statement.

That’s fair. I should say that it’s been reported widely, and since I’ve heard the same thing from people who would know, I’ve accepted that narrative. I understand why others may be more hesitant.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Barnacle

[Barnacle 9,064]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

I agree . I am sure Gus and Gene both did that but if I remember correctly they also alluded to too many people in the kitchen after they left as well too. 
 

But let me tell you , the Urban Meyers and Bob Stoops of the world will not be coming here with that in mind. I think that overreach is exactly why Auburn has all of these issues. 

No, and neither should Harsin for that matter. But I do think part of a college football coach’s job is to sell your vision of the program to your support base, and unfortunately that involves shaking some hands and kissing some babies. 

[AUght2win 6,827]

10 minutes ago, Carnell said:

If those are the reasons for starting an investigation, someone come in an please save Auburn.  With the transfer portal such as it is transfers are going to be frequent and if we have to hire a replacement for Harsin in the future I guess he will have to face an investigation because none are his players and they transfered out.  And why does Harsin need to be investigated for going 0 Fer on signing day especially during the early signing period and the praise we reaped upon him for the great recovery.

 

Just do your research on what occurred in January and Feb. It’s not some grand conspiracy. CBH had a lottttt of red flags that were honestly unprecedented at a place like Auburn.

- The Smoke Monday IG live.

- Our best coach taking a paycut for a lateral job at a lesser school.

- Missing every single prospect we went after for NSD.

- Hiring an unproven OC with no experience then having that OC quit after a week.

These things aren’t normal. They aren’t “oh well, that’s college football”. An investigation was warranted to see WTH was going on and if CBH was tenable at Auburn.

[AUght2win 6,827]

36 minutes ago, DAG said:

That’s your opinion which I absolutely don’t agree with just from the fact I believe he would recruit like hell and have the right coaches in place. 

He does that at UGA now. If UGA were in the West, what would his results be? 

[Carnell 592]

15 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

Just do your research on what occurred in January and Feb. It’s not some grand conspiracy. CBH had a lottttt of red flags that were honestly unprecedented at a place like Auburn.

- The Smoke Monday IG live.

- Our best coach taking a paycut for a lateral job at a lesser school.

- Missing every single prospect we went after for NSD.

- Hiring an unproven OC with no experience then having that OC quit after a week.

These things aren’t normal. They aren’t “oh well, that’s college football”. An investigation was warranted to see WTH was going on and if CBH was tenable at Auburn.

Again how are those an investigable offenses.

[e808 3,025]

16 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

He does that at UGA now. If UGA were in the West, what would his results be? 

Respectfully the same. UGA and Bama would alternate at worst case.

[AUght2win 6,827]

9 minutes ago, e808 said:

Respectfully the same. UGA and Bama would alternate at worst case.

I don’t think so. Smart literally just beat Saban for the first time ever. I don’t think Smart would have a single division title (maybe one), if he were at Auburn during the same span he’s been at UGA. Saban has a serious psychological hold on that guy.

[AUght2win 6,827]

12 minutes ago, Carnell said:

Again how are those an investigable offenses.

I don’t know what to tell you. Pretty obvious from ALL those things happening (not to mention things like a 5 game losing streak and losing our 3 year legacy starting QB to transfer) that something was seriously amiss inside the program.

Not every investigation is rooted in a moral or legal crisis. Sometimes it’s just figuring out why an organization is rapidly imploding.

[e808 3,025]

47 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

I don’t think so. Smart literally just beat Saban for the first time ever. I don’t think Smart would have a single division title (maybe one), if he were at Auburn during the same span he’s been at UGA. Saban has a serious psychological hold on that guy.

Plus u also have to add in the fact that Alabama rarely goes undefeated. I see it just like the Auburn series for the most part. Bama isn’t winning at UGA. I don’t think Kirby is the greatest X’s and O’s guy but he has surrounded himself with the talent and coaches to win.

Sure it took a few times to beat Saban but he finally did it when it mattered most. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by e808

[DAG 33,961]

1 hour ago, AUght2win said:

He does that at UGA now. If UGA were in the West, what would his results be? 

He probably would win a NC here with the talent he gets. He definitely would be in the running for having us in contentions to make the playoffs every year. Why would him being in the west matter if he is stockpiling talent? I don’t think LSU or the aggies are consistently beating UGA.

 

Hell Texas A&M has a bad enough time consistently beating the teams they have way more talent than noq. I just think it’s hilarious you say you don’t want CKS but also have been critiquing the hell out of CBH (rightfully so) for not stockpiling talent. That really doesn’t make sense man. I mean weren’t you one of the ones who really wanted Mario Cristobal? He has done far less than anything CKS has done. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by DAG

[aucom96 1,617]

20 minutes ago, DAG said:

He probably would win a NC here with the talent he gets. He definitely would be in the running for having us in contentions to make the playoffs every year. Why would him being in the west matter if he is stockpiling talent? I don’t think LSU or the aggies are consistently beating UGA.

I would be very surprised if he had been able to pull in the same level of talent at Auburn as at Georgia pre-NIL. (or really even post-NIL) I know a lot of people think that everyone bends the rules at the same level, but Auburn got shellacked by the NCAA for spotting a kid a c-note to buy groceries while Alabama put kids parents up in booster housing, had kids getting paid by boosters in clothing stores and hubcap joints without even a hint of investigation. The Alabama press, and by extension, national press crawled over us like ants over the Cam Newton saga. That doesn't happen to Alabama, short of NCAA investigation. It doesn't happen to Georgia, either. If Kirby came here and tried to recruit like he did in Tuscaloosa, we'd still be getting out from under the NCAA hammer. 

Don't get me wrong, I think Smart would have been a definite upgrade over Malzahn and we screwed the pooch on that one, but his ceiling would have been lower here than Athens. With NIL, probably a lot lower. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by aucom96

[e808 3,025]

21 minutes ago, DAG said:

He probably would win a NC here with the talent he gets. He definitely would be in the running for having us in contentions to make the playoffs every year. Why would him being in the west matter if he is stockpiling talent? I don’t think LSU or the aggies are consistently beating UGA.

 

Hell Texas A&M has a bad enough time consistently beating the teams they have way more talent than noq. I just think it’s hilarious you say you don’t want CKS but also have been critiquing the hell out of CBH (rightfully so) for not stockpiling talent. That really doesn’t make sense man. I mean weren’t you one of the ones who really wanted Mario Cristobal? He has done far less than anything CKS has done. 

For all the great recruiting Cristobal does it’s guaranteed that he will lose to someone during the season that he has no business losing to.

[DAG 33,961]

3 minutes ago, aucom96 said:

I would be very surprised if he had been able to pull in the same level of talent at Auburn as at Georgia pre-NIL. (or really even post-NIL) I know a lot of people think that everyone bends the rules at the same level, but Auburn got shellacked by the NCAA for spotting a kid a c-note to buy groceries while Alabama put kids parents up in booster housing, had kids getting paid by boosters in clothing stores and hubcap joints without even a hint of investigation. The Alabama press, and by extension, national press crawled over us like ants over the Cam Newton saga. That doesn't happen to Alabama, short of NCAA investigation. It doesn't happen to Georgia, either. If Kirby came here and tried to recruit like he did in Tuscaloosa, we'd still be getting out from under the NCAA hammer. 

Don't get me wrong, I think Smart would have been a definite upgrade over Malzahn and we screwed the pooch on that one, but his ceiling would have been lower here than Athens. With NIL, probably a lot lower. 

Maybe, Maybe not. I tend to think that is over blown too. If you notice, the ones getting away with stuff have a blue print to it. CKS knows the blue print.

[DAG 33,961]

1 minute ago, e808 said:

For all the great recruiting Cristobal does it’s guaranteed that he will lose to someone during the season that he has no business losing to.

Correct and in a much weaker conference. 

[e808 3,025]

7 minutes ago, aucom96 said:

I would be very surprised if he had been able to pull in the same level of talent at Auburn as at Georgia pre-NIL. (or really even post-NIL) I know a lot of people think that everyone bends the rules at the same level, but Auburn got shellacked by the NCAA for spotting a kid a c-note to buy groceries while Alabama put kids parents up in booster housing, had kids getting paid by boosters in clothing stores and hubcap joints without even a hint of investigation. The Alabama press, and by extension, national press crawled over us like ants over the Cam Newton saga. That doesn't happen to Alabama, short of NCAA investigation. It doesn't happen to Georgia, either. If Kirby came here and tried to recruit like he did in Tuscaloosa, we'd still be getting out from under the NCAA hammer. 

Don't get me wrong, I think Smart would have been a definite upgrade over Malzahn and we screwed the pooch on that one, but his ceiling would have been lower here than Athens. With NIL, probably a lot lower. 

Regarding NIL it depends when CKS gets here. If he started when CBH started and had similar results then yes NIL might be an issue. If he comes to Auburn let’s say 2019 and already established a foundation of winning games and good recruiting I don’t think NIL would be an issue.

[EagleEye67 1,939]

4 hours ago, Tiger Refuge said:

Not everyone that defends Harsin thinks he is blameless/perfect and not everyone that criticizes Harsin thinks he is solely responsible/should be fired. Assuming the extremes snuffs out most good conversation.

false-choice bias

[DAG 33,961]

11 minutes ago, e808 said:

Regarding NIL it depends when CKS gets here. If he started when CBH started and had similar results then yes NIL might be an issue. If he comes to Auburn let’s say 2019 and already established a foundation of winning games and good recruiting I don’t think NIL would be an issue.

Honestly though, does it even matter? The best recruiters are not Boy Scouts. Pre or Post NIL. I don't care how much people love Bruce Pearl here. To majority of fans, Bruce Pearl is a cheater and always will be a cheater. Do we even give a crap? Lucky for us, Auburn has a very good compliancy office. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by DAG

[Carnell 592]

1 hour ago, AUght2win said:

I don’t know what to tell you. Pretty obvious from ALL those things happening (not to mention things like a 5 game losing streak and losing our 3 year legacy starting QB to transfer) that something was seriously amiss inside the program.

Not every investigation is rooted in a moral or legal crisis. Sometimes it’s just figuring out why an organization is rapidly imploding.

Look if the administrators were dissatisfied with those situations cited above they should have just fired the guy because they can fire without cause but in that case they still have to honor the terms of the contract.  The reason for the investigation was to try to terminate and not have to pay off under the terms.  And that would involve moral, legal or ethical issues.  I am questioning what evidence they had to suggest Harsin questionable moral or ethical issues.

[auelvis87 96]

I feel like we are at a cross road on the edge of a cliff.  Over the years, and especially in the last decade or so, Auburn football has been mired in bad PR.  JetGate, Bobby Lowder/Accreditation issue, Cam Newton recruitment (yes, we were cleared, but still was a black eye), and the Harsin investigation just to name a few.  

Look at the last 2 coaching searches we've had.  Before Gus was hired we talked to Kirby.  I've always heard he wanted more control than AU was willing to give him.  Seems to have worked out pretty well for UGA. Before Harsin was hired you heard the names of Cristobal, Napier, Tony Elliott, and Venables.  I don't know how close we were to hiring any of them, but none of them are at AU and all accepted positions at other schools a year later.  

Now look at recruiting.  I know it's still early, but according to rivals.com we are currently ranked 67th with 4 commitments.  Ole Miss is 66th and East Caroline is 68th.  We are the only team in the top 100 with only 4 commitments. I read an article this morning (and I don't remember who it was from) that we have offered scholarships to 33 defensive lineman and haven't received a commitment from a single one.  33!  If that's true we are truly in a bad, bad place.  

Take off your orange and blue glasses and try and look at Auburn Football from a national perspective.  We don't have a great reputation as being a great place to be the head football coach.  With NIL, the transfer portal, and other SEC programs on the rise, we're at a pivotal point and if we're not careful we could be be totally blown away into oblivion.  I'm not saying I have all the answers, but I am concerned with where the football program is, and where it is going.

I've often said it's hard to be an AU Football fan.  It's definitely a roller coaster ride of emotions, but I will always cheer for the Tigers no matter what.   

[CodeRocket 410]

5 hours ago, Barnacle said:

It was allowed to be played out in the public, with salacious rumors left unattended, and in my opinion it was designed that way to leverage Harsin into accepting a reduced buy-out.

Perhaps this entire fiasco left CBH with a deep wound to his family, his reputation, and his career. Maybe he has a axe to grind and maybe he is grinding it right now. One thing is for certain, he is definitely in the power seat, with respect to any buyout negotiations that might take place. If we win more games than expected this season he will be viewed as a fine coach who had to overcome a lot of obstacles (This is the outcome I am hoping for). If the season doesn't go well, there is still that substantial buyout, and poor recruiting results to deal with. A few years of poor recruiting could be disastrous but then there is that contract. All of this with the buyout of CGM's contract still fresh in everyone's mind. The Auburn family could find itself in for a few years of static status quo.