TitanTiger 20,406 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Just FYI - my wife has worked at two pediatric hospitals, including Children's Healthcare of Atlanta. Technically pediatrics covers anyone age 21 or younger, it's just we're not used to associating that term with older children. From that standpoint, what is being discussed here may be fine, though I will admit I'm a little uncomfortable with someone making this decision even at 21. There are still so many experiences, in my opinion, that the average person needs to have to make an informed decision like this. Having said that, there are people that aren't average, and the option should be open. If you can choose to die for your country, certainly this decision (among others) should not be denied to you. To be clear, no one here is raising red flags over people who are legal adults making these sorts of decisions for themselves, however problematic it may be (as you allude to with your own personal discomfort with doing this even at 21 years of age). We're questioning why a children's hospital would be offering this and denouncing it being done on minor girls. In rare instances, there may be physical, medically necessary reasons for a minor girl to have to have a hysterectomy - such as Pelvic Inflammatory Disease (a bacterial infection), Adenomyosis (where the lining of the uterus grows out into the muscle of the uterus), certain types of cancer, fibroid growths, chronic abnormal bleeding and other conditions. But giving a minor girl a hysterectomy over mental condition is what's at issue here and to suggest that it should be ok is absolutely nuts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,406 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 I suppose you really do know what is best. In this instance, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,456 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 "But giving a minor girl a hysterectomy over mental condition is what's at issue here and to suggest that it should be ok is absolutely nuts. " To be clear, this has nothing to do with my argument. Asking for government intervention based on the anecdotal information of self proclaimed experts who are heavily biased,,, is what I oppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,456 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 In this instance, yes. Your vast research and tremendous clinical work are noted. I concede. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,406 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 "But giving a minor girl a hysterectomy over mental condition is what's at issue here and to suggest that it should be ok is absolutely nuts. " To be clear, this has nothing to do with my argument. Asking for government intervention based on the anecdotal information of self proclaimed experts who are heavily biased,,, is what I oppose. If hysterectomies are being done on minor girls based for no other purpose than as "gender-affirming" care - to affirm and facilitate an expressed belief that they are really male and to transition, I absolutely want the government to investigate it and if it's found to be happening, to put an end to it. Frankly, it is frightening and bewildering that this would even have to be explained to any thinking adult. If these procedures are not happening as described above, then the argument is moot. No one is advocating that legal adults not be able to make these decisions for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,406 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Your vast research and tremendous clinical work are noted. I concede. Years of reading on the subject, basic common sense, and a healthy dose of proper moral and ethical formation are excellent instructors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,456 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 If hysterectomies are being done on minor girls based for no other purpose than as "gender-affirming" care - to affirm and facilitate an expressed belief that they are really male and to transition, I absolutely want the government to investigate it and if it's found to be happening, to put an end to it. Frankly, it frightening and bewildering that this would even have to be explained to any thinking adult. If these procedures are not happening as described above, then the argument is moot. No one is advocating that legal adults not be able to make these decisions for themselves. I understand your concerns. I do not understand the refusal to recognize your bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,456 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Years of reading on the subject, basic common sense, and a healthy dose of proper moral and ethical formation are excellent instructors. Good news!!!, many are working toward a government that more closely reflects your "healthy dose of proper moral and ethical formation". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,406 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 I understand your concerns. I do not understand the refusal to recognize your bias. Certainly I have biases, as do you. It has nothing to do with bias for either of us. It has to do with not physically and irreversibly maiming a minor child - with lifetime side effects - over gender dysphoria. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,456 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Certainly I have biases, as do you. It has nothing to do with bias for either of us. It has to do with not physically and irreversibly maiming a minor child - with lifetime side effects - over gender dysphoria. I trust you and the government to make that decision. Parents, a team of medical professionals, the child have no place in the decision. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,406 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 I trust you and the government to make that decision. Parents, a team of medical professionals, the child have no place in the decision. The government is us. We make all sorts of moral judgments that we put into law. For instance, the legal idea that children cannot consent to sexual activity. Or that children under a certain age can't get married without parental consent, and under a lower age, can't do so even with parental consent. Sure, there are weirdos out there that think differently on these matters. Some have what looks to be an impressive list of credentials. But some things are, at best, imprudent and others should be wrong on their face to normal people. I feel confident that permanent removal of healthy organs - with lifetime consequences and health-related side effects - over how one feels about their gender at least meets this minimal bar for what we should be allowed to do to minor children. Unless there's an actual physical problem necessitating a hysterectomy, we can wait this decision out and perform it when they are a legal adult. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,456 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) The government is us. We make all sorts of moral judgments that we put into law. For instance, the legal idea that children cannot consent to sexual activity. Or that children under a certain age can't get married without parental consent, and under a lower age, can't do so even with parental consent. Sure, there are weirdos out there that think differently on these matters. Some have what looks to be an impressive list of credentials. But some things are, at best, imprudent and others should be wrong on their face to normal people. I feel confident that permanent removal of healthy organs - with lifetime consequences and health-related side effects - over how one feels about their gender at least meets this minimal bar for what we should be allowed to do to minor children. Unless there's an actual physical problem necessitating a hysterectomy, we can wait this decision out and perform it when they are a legal adult. I understand your feelings. I do not understand your desire for you and the government to make unilateral personal decisions for others. Edited August 11, 2022 by icanthearyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,406 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 I understand your feelings. I do not understand your desire for you and the government to make unilateral personal decisions for others. In general, I agree. I think when it comes to children, we rightly make exceptions. This should be one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,456 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 In general, I agree. I think when it comes to children, we rightly make exceptions. This should be one of them. I understand your feelings. I disagree with your "remedy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,406 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 I understand your feelings. I disagree with your "remedy". Do you disagree with making it illegal to allow children under the age of 16 to get married, or even at 16 yrs old with parental consent? Or should we dispense with those laws as well? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeTiger 4,999 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) Do you disagree with making it illegal to allow children under the age of 16 to get married, or even at 16 yrs old with parental consent? Or should we dispense with those laws as well? Interestingly enough, there are some States that do allow marriages with parental consent to those under 16. Edited August 11, 2022 by CoffeeTiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,406 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Interestingly enough, there are some States that do allow marriages with parental consent to those under 16. I understand that there are a few variations. The point is, there’s an age under which all states say a child cannot consent to certain acts, and in some cases cannot do even with parental permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,600 Posted August 11, 2022 Author Share Posted August 11, 2022 The old,,, I have a black transexual friend statement. No, I am not assuming I know better. I am assuming doctors and parents know much, much more about a child who they are continually caring for than you and your political views. I knew you would say that because you have no real interest in substantive conversation or even actual humans- humans as a abstract concept, sure. You just throw out self righteous cliches. It’s all you got. One of those was about respecting people who don’t fit norms. I do. I respect people who don’t fit gender norms, or we wouldn’t be friends. Most agree with me on this issue, btw. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,600 Posted August 11, 2022 Author Share Posted August 11, 2022 That statement doesn't fly logically. Assuming that "just fine" (a prejudicial way of saying what could better be expressed as 'none of my business') - means not actively preventing or interfering with another "adults" decision regarding their child, does not assume "you know better". Just the opposite. Interceding to circumvent their decision is assuming you know better (by definition). Having said that, it all depends on circumstance - especially the age of the "child". Also, I seriously doubt there is an actual problem - as is being assumed - with young children receiving hysterectomies. That would seem to violate all professional and ethical standards of providers IMO. If it happens you don’t care, because they can adopt— right? Frankly, that’s one of the coldest things I’ve heard on this forum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,600 Posted August 11, 2022 Author Share Posted August 11, 2022 I trust you and the government to make that decision. Parents, a team of medical professionals, the child have no place in the decision. The US medical profession is increasingly out of step with the medical professions in other western countries on this. But we are closer to Iran, that progressive bastion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,600 Posted August 11, 2022 Author Share Posted August 11, 2022 I understand your concerns. I do not understand the refusal to recognize your bias. Do you see your bias? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,600 Posted August 11, 2022 Author Share Posted August 11, 2022 The US medical profession is increasingly out of step with the medical professions in other western countries on this. But we are closer to Iran, that progressive bastion. Yes, @icanthearyou all your arrogance, hubris and emoticons don’t change your ignorance on this issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,270 Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 (edited) If it happens you don’t care, because they can adopt— right? Frankly, that’s one of the coldest things I’ve heard on this forum. Straw man response. It doesn't address the point of my post, nor does it address anything I have said in this thread. You're better than that Tex. Edited August 12, 2022 by homersapien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,270 Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 (edited) Furthermore, the OP was pure trolling. The video said nothing about circumstances in which said hysterectomy would be recommended. If you must get worked up about children getting hysterectomies come up with an actual case to discuss instead of a simple video about hysterectomies produced by a "Childrens Hospital". This whole discussion is based on a hypothetical. To clarify my position, I personally think performing a hysterectomy on a child - less than 18 - is a crazy proposition, at least for the purpose of conforming to her sexual identity. But I have faith in our medical system and providers not to do such a thing. I don't feel a personal compulsion to involve myself in other people's health decisions, especially if the patient involved is 18-21. It's really none of my business. Nor do I think it represents a threat to our society. I am willing to defer any necessary intervention or regulation to the medical and psychological experts and their codes of conduct. I do have a concern that such (hypothetical) examples of such child abuse will be weaponized politically to direct prejudice toward people who are afflicted with sexual dysphoria, which we have already witnessed. Edited August 12, 2022 by homersapien 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,456 Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/gender-dysphoria-transgender-kids-not-203152616.html Try to love and understand others. Stop trying to judge and control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now