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Why wouldn’t you start Ashford in Week 2?


RunInRed

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21 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

Expand then.

TJ’s 1st pick looked like correct decision, just didn’t get it long enough on a very long pass (thought the WR didn’t help stop the pick also). 2nd pick was definitely wrong decision. Saw more offensive plays for TJ. Trying to play all aspects of QB position. 

Thought RA made a bad decision and a bad long throw just worked out with an pI call. Could/should have just as easy been pick. Most of his big plays were just outrunning Mercer. Looked like a much smaller playbook. 
 

I still think RA should play, just not get the start until he shows he can run whole playbook (which maybe next week).

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1 hour ago, DAG said:

It is not as black and white as you want to make it, once again. Yes RA is a dynamic player. Yes he has a lot of potential, but we don't know what he can do fully. Teams will game plan much more and see if he can pass. You cannot be successful thinking the QB is simply going to beat you with your legs. He had a great deep ball pass and some instances where he made good short yard passes. However, he also had a duck deep ball pass with two defenders draped one a player. So, yes we need another game to truly see this. Basing things off one game is extremely short sighted per usual. And I absolutely like RA. 

The problem is we only have 1 game to figure it out. If it's Ashford he needs as much work as possible. This week in practice and next Saturday. That's the dilemma Harsin has

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17 minutes ago, DAG said:

The funny thing is that works both ways. Yes RA is an athlete but he ran all over, wait for it? MERCER. The point being, yes TJ had a couple of bad decisions but last game did no way say he was an inaccurate passer nor did he show RA to be even a remotely consistent passer for a starter. It is one game with a lot of good stuff and noticeably things we need to work on. I do not know how anyone can watch that game and conclude on practically anything of this team besides we look a lot more cohesive and discipline all around as a unit.

We saw a lot of growth from Bo mid season or so before he got hurt. I don't see why we can't hope/expect for something similar with TJ.  I think RA will take steps too, but seems so far away.

I was wrong about Ashford playing. But I think we're in for a split QB snaps most of the season.  I think 65/35 seems like is in play.

Ashford can pass just enough to have him throw it 5-7 times a game and keep the defense honest. Seemed to be a cohesive rotation last night 

Edited by W.E.D
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Just now, NWALA Tiger said:

The problem is we only have 1 game to figure it out. If it's Ashford he needs as much work as possible. This week in practice and next Saturday. That's the dilemma Harsin has

You don't develop in 2 weeks into a ready and able QB from where he is

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5 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

We saw a lot of growth from Bo mid season or so before he got hurt. I don't see why we can't hope/expect for something similar with TJ.  I think RA will take steps too, but seems so far away.

I was wrong about Ashford playing. But I think we're in for a split QB snaps most of the season.  I think 65/35 seems like is in play.

Ashford can pass just enough to have him throw it 5-7 times a game and keep the defense honest. Seemed to be a cohesive rotation last night 

Agree with your premise of where we wind up. TJ looked like he didn’t like the interruptions, but I may have been miss interpreting his body language. 

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I need some clarification why is it being presented as TJ is way ahead of RA. Both of them were backups. IMO CBH was vague on why the starter was chosen. He only mentioned alignment and know what we want to do which is left for interpretation.

The back end is what counts more reading the defense, accurate passing, getting touchdowns Vs  field goals.

Lastly I don’t get the RA can’t throw thing he played football and baseball at Hoover. He isn’t an athlete playing quarterback. He been playing quarterback 

Edited by e808
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I’ve heard that Robby is a pretty good passer in the pocket, but is all over the place with his passing on the run. Maybe that’s what is preventing Harsin from giving him the keys. If so, it makes sense.

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31 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

TJ’s 1st pick looked like correct decision, just didn’t get it long enough on a very long pass (thought the WR didn’t help stop the pick also). 2nd pick was definitely wrong decision. Saw more offensive plays for TJ. Trying to play all aspects of QB position. 

Thought RA made a bad decision and a bad long throw just worked out with an pI call. Could/should have just as easy been pick. Most of his big plays were just outrunning Mercer. Looked like a much smaller playbook. 
 

I still think RA should play, just not get the start until he shows he can run whole playbook (which maybe next week).

This isn’t true though. In modern football DBs play “in phase” with their backs to the QB, having no idea where the ball is. This was the case last night. An underthrow is better than an overthrow in that scenario. Because the WR at least has a shot at the ball, and at worst, a lot of times the DB will run into the WR when he suddenly hits the brakes - resulting in a PI.

This used to happen to us a ton like 4 or 5 years ago. I think UGA in particular used to kill us with underthrown sideline back shoulder fades. If their wideouts didn’t catch it, our DBs would bowl over them when they stopped to try. 

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If you look around the league there are a lot of mobile QBs putting up some good run and pass numbers. Florida, Arkansas, Kentucky, Vandy, etc., all have that type now in addition to bama. Luckily we have one too.

If you watch the performance tonight and take your favorites out of the equation, it's obvious that Ashford adds that extra dimension. In addition he showed he can pass. I don't know if it's enough of a sample but I would sure like to see how Ashford would operate with a a game plan designed for him as a starter. He looked good out there and  I have a feeling this will work itself out on its own

 

Edited by IronMan70
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24 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

We saw a lot of growth from Bo mid season or so before he got hurt. I don't see why we can't hope/expect for something similar with TJ.  I think RA will take steps too, but seems so far away.

I was wrong about Ashford playing. But I think we're in for a split QB snaps most of the season.  I think 65/35 seems like is in play.

Ashford can pass just enough to have him throw it 5-7 times a game and keep the defense honest. Seemed to be a cohesive rotation last night 

Based on what???

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4 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

This isn’t true though. In modern football DBs play “in phase” with their backs to the QB, having no idea where the ball is. This was the case last night. An underthrow is better than an overthrow in that scenario. Because the WR at least has a shot at the ball, and at worst, a lot of times the DB will run into the WR when he suddenly hits the brakes - resulting in a PI.

This used to happen to us a ton like 4 or 5 years ago. I think UGA in particular used to kill us with underthrown sideline back shoulder fades. If their wideouts didn’t catch it, our DBs would bowl over them when they stopped to try. 

I guess that means TJ’s long throw pick was the WR’s fault for not initiating PI as TJ threw it short (as he was supposed to) (he was not in double coverage I don’t believe). Don’t believe it was correct decision to throw the ball at all in double coverage. 

Edited by Hank2020
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59 minutes ago, TigerHorn said:

RA didn't just knock the dude down, he looked to have had some choice words for him as well as he went by. Watch him bend over as he runs off the screen......I like that in a QB. 

 

EBA80C06-BB48-41CB-BA56-58DD09AFC939.jpeg

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4 minutes ago, IronMan70 said:

If you look around the league there are a lot of mobile QBs putting up some good run and pass numbers. Florida, Arkansas, Vandy, etc., all have that type now in addition to bama and UGa. Luckily we have one too.

If you watch the performance tonight and take your own favorites out of the equation, it's obvious that Ashford adds that extra dimension, in addition he showed he can pass. I don't know if it's enough of a sample but I would sure like to see how Ashford would operate with a a game plan designed for him as a starter. He looked good out there and  I have a feeling this will work itself out on its own

 

I think the plays they ran when he was in were designed with him in mind.

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3 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

I guess that means TJ’s long throw pick was the WR’s fault for not initiating PI as TJ threw it short (as he was supposed to) (he was not in double coverage I don’t believe). Don’t believe it was correct decision to throw the ball at all in double coverage. 

Then what about quadruple coverage? This is TJ’s first pick. The one you said was a good decision.

53E9E315-7A21-483F-98FC-5CF8D08A7A10.jpeg.d69f0fb435f2344b32f9676aa57d9d09.jpeg

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3 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

Then what about quadruple coverage? This is TJ’s first pick. The one you said was a good decision.

53E9E315-7A21-483F-98FC-5CF8D08A7A10.jpeg.d69f0fb435f2344b32f9676aa57d9d09.jpeg

Got me with the picture for sure. Thats not what it looked like in my memory. lol

Edited by Hank2020
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36 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

You don't develop in 2 weeks into a ready and able QB from where he is

Why don't u tell us where he "is".. All we have to go on is results on the field. Last nite, Ashford had the better game. Maybe, TJ tears it up next week then so be it. The fact remains, Ashford didn't showcase his skills cause he wasnt hit at practice. I say have the same plan as last week and see what happens.  But at worst, they need to split practice time 50 50 this week

 

Edited by NWALA Tiger
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14 minutes ago, IronMan70 said:

If you look around the league there are a lot of mobile QBs putting up some good run and pass numbers. Florida, Arkansas, Vandy, etc., all have that type now in addition to bama and UGa. Luckily we have one too.

If you watch the performance tonight and take your own favorites out of the equation, it's obvious that Ashford adds that extra dimension, in addition he showed he can pass. I don't know if it's enough of a sample but I would sure like to see how Ashford would operate with a a game plan designed for him as a starter. He looked good out there and  I have a feeling this will work itself out on its own

 

This has been my argument vs having a pocket passer taking hits. The majority of the quarterbacks in the SEC can use their legs to extend plays or beat u with running. Stetson played his butt off yesterday and can do both

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Because if he starts before truly proving in additional competition, the locker room ends up like this board, and the dream ends.  There is a process.  You have to take care of their minds too.  

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1 hour ago, DAG said:

People will have to learn the hard way. Then they will turn on the player when their own ideas don't come to fruition. Like no, if JF3, a world class athlete couldn't solely run all over the SEC at the QB position, RA isn't doing it either. 

My take on this would be the same thing I wanted out of Gus. Base your offense on the zone read. When they start stacking the box, hit a few quick passes or go over the top to back then off. The run is open again. 

Obviously it isn't that simple and takes discipline, but it can be done effectively.

My only concern there is we'd be completely throwing away Harsin's system. 

I think if Ashford ends up being the guy at some point, which I'd be excited about, he's going to have a lot crafted to his strengths, but he's still gotta be able to run the offense. It's yet to be seen if he's capable of that. 

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20 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

Got me with the picture for sure. Thats not what it looked like in my memory. lol

In your defense, Joe Burrow sees that and completes it 9/10 times. We just don't have Joe Burrow. 

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2 minutes ago, kennypowers said:

Because if he starts before truly proving in additional competition, the locker room ends up like this board, and the dream ends.  There is a process.  You have to take care of their minds too.  

This is a legitimate reason. However, one of Malzahn’s most infuriating flaws (and there were a lot to choose from) was his open attitude about his teams “figuring themselves out” early in the year. I mean, of course that’s a true part of football. But Malzahn would be saying stuff like that to excuse away major flaws, all the way up into the 4th or 5th game.

It’d be nice to have a coaching approach with more urgency, which I think Harsin may provide. A “hey, it’s go time” mentality that isn’t going to give too much slack. Simply put, we don’t have 162 games like an MLB team to figure it out and find a groove. We have 11 left, and only 60 minutes of football before PSU comes to town. 

TJ is in year 3 as an SEC starter. I’m not saying he’s awful or a lost cause, but idk how anyone could watch him throw the two unpressured picks he threw last night and think he’s going to flip a switch in two weeks to being a different guy.

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52 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

Agree with your premise of where we wind up. TJ looked like he didn’t like the interruptions, but I may have been miss interpreting his body language. 

I didn't really pay attention to body language, so maybe I missed that.  Until the picks, the offense seemed to flow well, even with the rotations.

That's how I was kinda basing it

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36 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

Based on what???

Literally everything we've been told

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1 hour ago, DAG said:

The funny thing is that works both ways. Yes RA is an athlete but he ran all over, wait for it? MERCER. The point being, yes TJ had a couple of bad decisions but last game did no way say he was an inaccurate passer nor did he show RA to be even a remotely consistent passer for a starter. It is one game with a lot of good stuff and noticeably things we need to work on. I do not know how anyone can watch that game and conclude on practically anything of this team besides we look a lot more cohesive and discipline all around as a unit.

You two are acting like this was TJ’s first game. It’s year 3 for him in the SEC. He’s had well established accuracy issues. Everybody was hoping that had improved but it doesn’t appear it has. At least not dramatically. 

But this was very literally RA’s first game. If both suck at passing (which we truly don’t know how good a passer RA is, but just to give you the benefit of the doubt), at least use the guy who adds a running dimension. 

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13 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

Literally everything we've been told

Respectfully u hear one thing from the coaches and then u have people on the defensive side of what RA brings to the table. Reading between the lines it seems to be a mixed bag  of what he can do. Only a live game allows RA to show his complete skillset. Hopefully we see him throw more passes. 

Edited by e808
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