Jump to content

Mikey defends Gus' OL recruiting...


bigbird
 Share

Recommended Posts

On 9/14/2022 at 12:16 AM, Mikey said:

Perhaps. Counting heads on a current roster, I see 14 scholarship O-line guys. Two were brought in by Harsin, the other 12 are Gus's signees. This is the second season that Gus has been gone. 12 still standing after two years isn't that bad. What's bad is that nothing has been done to replace those who've graduated or otherwise left.

PS: Tashawn Manning, who transferred out, is starting on Kentucky's O-line. The guys playing now aren't all that bad.

Are you really this dense or blind rabid Gus fan? Harsin has had ONE SIGNED recruiting class pull together in a very short time that was built against SEC schools that had 3 - 4 years of building relationships. Your continued comments are utterly insane as repeatedly pointed out. AU's current OL has 4 starters that have basically started together now being a 3rd year and playing as well as they can as a unit but are extremely lacking in talent, AU's OL is clearly in the lower half of the SEC. Unless the wheels fall for W/L's, I fully expect Harsin to sign the most talented OL compared to pre-Gus's era

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites





59 minutes ago, mcgufcm said:

A team is made (generally) of five signing classes:  Fr, RFr, So, Jr, Sr

I don’t care what metric you use, leaving 11 guys in the So-Sr classes is not “a lot.” It’s manageable, but it’s not like he left a bunch of guys that meant we had no worries for two years. 

The other issue you’ve dodged is the fact that none of those guys are amazing. He left an adequate number of decent (but not good) offensive linemen in the upper classes.

As I’ve said (and other have said), Harsin’s failure to sign more than three guys in two years is his failing. But Gus left a mediocre mess and a room with a culture of mediocrity baked in for years and years. 

Gus left more than 11. Tashawn Manning is starting on the O-line for 9th ranked Kentucky. The ones who stayed at AU must be pretty good if Manning transferred out because he couldn't win a starting job, then goes to Ky and becomes a starter on a winning team. There may have been more who graduated or left the program due to injury, etc. between the time Gus left and now. I haven't looked into that.

Looking sat your own statement: "A team is made (generally) of five signing classes:  Fr, RFr, So, Jr, Sr ."  If three of those classes are Gus's and he left 12, then that's leaving four per class. Comes out to 20, had the numbers been maintained. 20 is above average.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, arein0 said:

I think the biggest issue is that he is pushing the narrative that this is Harsins 3rd class, but since Gus recruited the majority of the 1st class, they all count as Gus recruits. I dont believe it is fair to say he has had 3 classes and the 1st class only counts for Gus. The fact that we are still arguing who was better between Harsin and Gus is kind of childish. Gus left us with the bare minimum and Harsin hasnt done much to improve the situation.

Imo this is Harsins 2nd recruiting class, not 3rd.

The first class was roughly 1/2 old staff and 1/2 new. This current cycle is Harsin's third recruiting cycle, including the 1/2 for the first year.

The 2021 signees don't all count as Gus's recruits. Nobody claimed that. They are about 1/2 and 1/2.

5 minutes ago, keywest said:

Unless the wheels fall for W/L's, I fully expect Harsin to sign the most talented OL compared to pre-Gus's era

Harsin darned sure better get started! The vast majority of SEC quality O-line prospects are already committed elsewhere.

8 minutes ago, keywest said:

Harsin has had ONE SIGNED recruiting class pull together in a very short time that was built against SEC schools that had 3 - 4 years of building relationships.

He had one-half signed class with very short time. (2021 cycle) His second class ( recruits in the 2022 cycle), was last year. He now working on his third recruiting class, which is ranked either 13th or 14th (dead solid last) in the SEC recruiting rankings. If relationship building is so critical, why are the new coaches at Tenn., Vandy, South Carolina and Florida ahead of us?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know what, @Mikey, now that you explain it I see that Gus built a machine of an offensive line. I don't know why I didn't realize that when the OL sucked in 2018 and got Stidham killed or when they were holding us back in 2019 or when they were a liability in 2020. I mean, this is a team that's had two offensive linemen drafted in four years (only one of which was a high school signee), but I see now that Gus had that room humming

The numbers were perfect. The desperate annual search for grad transfers to plug obvious holes was really just the plan all along. Gus was just playing chess, and I couldn't see it.

Give. Me. A. Break. The offensive line has been mediocre since 2017, and it wasn't great before that. Gus doesn't know his ass from his elbow in terms of offensive linemen. This is the same coach who annually claimed Braden Smith was a Guard but was forced to play out of position at RT out of need. That guy? He started from the Colts at RT as a rookie and hasn't given the spot up in four years since. If we had a coach who knew the offensive line, we would've actually played him in his natural position AT TACKLE his entire career.

Here's the deal. Google has a hiring theory that you have to only let your best people make hiring decisions because, as they put it, A's hire A's; B's hire B's; C's hire C's. Most people overrate their own ability so they don't see themselves as a C, but we tend to gravitate toward people similar to ourselves. Gus hired JB Grimes, Herb Hand, and Jack Bicknell. It's unfair to Jack to get lumped in with the other two, but that list pretty well speaks for itself. C's hire C's. Mediocrity gravitates to mediocrity.

  • Like 3
  • Love 1
  • Dislike 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We really have two sides to this argument.  One side thinks that Gus O-Line recruiting left Harsin in a bind the other side thinks that Gus did a good job of O-Line recruiting. Both sides agree on one thing and that is that so far Harsin and his staff have not recruited enough quality O-Linemen.

I think we can all agree that the current starting O-Line and most backups were recruited by Gus since only 3 O-Line belong in Harsin classes whether signed before Harsin arrived or after. In the last 3 years of the Malzan era prior to Harsin arriving how many of Auburn's O-Lines were dominate O-lines? The answer is none.  So that means either the talent was not there or the development was not there or both under Gus.

I think we can all agree that because of when Malzan was let go and the time it took to hire Harsin he and his staff had very little time to recruit his first class. So he gets some credit for pulling in Smith late and I think he gets some credit for keeping Langlo. He hired Friend as an O-Line coach who seemed to have recruited well at Tenn. (may have been reasons around good recruiting at Tenn.)  and had already built connections with a lot of HS O-line in this area.  Because Friend already has established relationships I expected last years class to be solid. We signed one player in last years class that was abysmal there is no way to sugar coat that.

Time will tell if any of the three that were in Harsin's 1st two classes with 1st class being abbreviated turn out to be SEC Caliber O-Linemen. So far this year we have one committed O-Lineman which does not look good but we still have time before early signing period and late signing period plus Portal this spring.  

Harsin will be judged on how well this years team plays as that will speak to development. Assuming this years team does not crater he will be judged on what the recruiting class looks like. If team craters he may not be around to be judged on this class. When I say what the recruiting class looks like we will have to take into consideration if we pull in a lot of Portal and JUCO players they don't count towards team rankings so we will have to look at the quality of the HS players he brings in and also whether players brought in (HS, JUCO, Portal) address our needs especially on the O-Line. 

This is the make it or break it year for Harsin on O-Line recruiting because we will have so few O-Linemen left. He has to build a starting unit from current players who will return next year and from JUCO and Portal ranks while signing enough HS seniors to start the path to a normal O-Line mixture of Freshman, Sophomores, Juniors, Seniors. If he does decent there then one more class with 3-4 HS  O-Line with Portal and JUCO filling any gaps. 

  

   

 

 

Edited by AuburnNTexas
  • Like 1
  • Love 1
  • Dislike 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don’t know what the right answer or resolution to this argument is but I know this: I *really* don’t want my user name heading up a thread title

  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2020 early signing day, led by Steele a week before Harsin was hired:

Garner Langlo, Dematrius Davis, Marquis Robinson, Landen King, Hal Pressley, Kamal Hadden, Grant Calcanterra, Ahmari Harvey, Tobechi Okoli, Ian Matthews, Lee Hunter, and AD Diamond.

-- Note that Diamond is the only guy who was exclusively Steele, as Steele flipped him from Louisiana Tech on that day. He was not associated with Gus.

Regular signing day that year, led by Harsin and company:

Cayden Bridges, Tarvarish Dawson, Juwan Gaston, Jarquez Hunter, Eku Leota, Colby Smith, and Joko Willis.

 

Trust me guys, it's not fair to credit/criticize a new staff for those December guys when they were hired a week after they were officially signed.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, au302 said:

Regular signing day that year, led by Harsin and company:

Cayden Bridges, Tarvarish Dawson, Juwan Gaston, Jarquez Hunter, Eku Leota, Colby Smith, and Joko Willis.

 

Trust me guys, it's not fair to credit/criticize a new staff for those December guys when they were hired a week after they were officially signed.

Yeah, that first month and a half of recruiting for Harsin and Co.  I thought was pretty good.   I think that’s one of the reasons why we had high expectations for the following Dec/Feb.  

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread title has to win some kind of award! I love this. 😝 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, DAG said:

This thread title though.

I don't ever want to hear cole say he's being picked on this site....damn Mikey got a whole thread named after him to be ridiculed lol.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, AuburnNTexas said:

We really have two sides to this argument.  One side thinks that Gus O-Line recruiting left Harsin in a bind the other side thinks that Gus did a good job of O-Line recruiting.

I don't see anybody saying Gus did a good/great job of O-line recruiting. It's only by comparison with what came after Gus that his classes look good.

 

7 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Stop picking on Mikey.  It's not nice.  Thank you.

Never mind. It would worry me if they had actual facts but what 90% of the remarks are trying to do is express their hatred for Coach Malzahn I just consider the source(s).

3 hours ago, AUinMS9528 said:

Congrats @Mikey    You got a whole thread named after you!  Much respect!

Am I a celebrity now? Thanks, @bigbird  for moving posts from last week and placing them in a new thread. Did you do this all by yourself or did you have to get RiR to show you which keys to tap?

To summarize...We'll use @mcgufcm's figures. He says Harsin has complete credit for the 2021 class.  Since @mcgufcmstated there's a five class roster we'll go with that too. Therefore, Gus has three classes on the Auburn roster, Harsin two. Gus has 11 players remaining on the AU roster plus Manning who is starting at Kentucky. That gives Gus 12 SEC quality O-linemen in three years. Four per year. Harsin has three in two years, 1 & 1/2 per year. Had Had Harsin maintained Gus's numbers he'd have brought in eight and AU would have 19 on our roster. We don't have 19.

As I stated earlier, the Gus bus needs a bumper sticker: "I might be slow but I'm ahead of you". :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, AU80cruiser said:

I don't ever want to hear cole say he's being picked on this site....damn Mikey got a whole thread named after him to be ridiculed lol.

The difference is this guy loves that attention. Only reinforces it all. You guys call it being picked on when it truly only provides more ammunition for the behaviors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Mikey said:

Am I a celebrity now? Thanks, @bigbird  for moving posts from last week and placing them in a new thread. Did you do this all by yourself or did you have to get RiR to show you which keys to tap?

I think this illustrates you beautifully. Thanks.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

4 hours ago, Mikey said:

That gives Gus 12 SEC quality O-linemen in three years. Four per year.

And this is where your dishonesty takes over.  You really do argue in bad faith.

It's not 4 per year...and you are fully aware of it.

Here are those pesky facts you keep ignoring and claim no one ever uses...

19 hours ago, bigbird said:

 

https://auburntigers.com/sports/football/roster?sort=position

https://www.ourlads.com/ncaa-football-depth-charts/roster/auburn/90061

 

Johnson: Jr

Jernigan: RsSo

Wright(had to move for depth): Jr 

Irvin: RsSr

Stutts: RsSr

Jackson(had to move for depth): RsSr

Coffey: RsSr 

Zierer: RsRs

 

RsSr: 5

RsJr: 0

Jr: 2 

RsSo: 1 

The total from those 4 classes that GUS signed is 8 OL and two of those were signed as DT and moved for depth. Just look at the last three classes though.

4/yr?  

Let's try some simple math.

5 + 0 + 2 + 1 = 8

8/4 = 2

2/yr the last 4 classes and 1/yr the last 3 years.  

 

This demonstrably shows why our OL has suffered so greatly and why it was so bad when CBH took over. It also shows why none of the poor performing OL were ever replaced. 

 

Again, as has been stated by literally everyone...CBH has not done much, if any, to improve on the OL numbers. This class can go a long way in fixing that, but we haven't seen it translate yet.

However, to claim that Gus left anything but a cluster of an OL room is either dumb or being intentionally blind.  I don't think Mikey is dumb.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, fredst said:

I don’t know what the right answer or resolution to this argument is but I know this: I *really* don’t want my user name heading up a thread title

Bourbon is the answer, good sir.

  • Like 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Mikey said:

I don't see anybody saying Gus did a good/great job of O-line recruiting. It's only by comparison with what came after Gus that his classes look good.

 

Never mind. It would worry me if they had actual facts but what 90% of the remarks are trying to do is express their hatred for Coach Malzahn I just consider the source(s).

Am I a celebrity now? Thanks, @bigbird  for moving posts from last week and placing them in a new thread. Did you do this all by yourself or did you have to get RiR to show you which keys to tap?

To summarize...We'll use @mcgufcm's figures. He says Harsin has complete credit for the 2021 class.  Since @mcgufcmstated there's a five class roster we'll go with that too. Therefore, Gus has three classes on the Auburn roster, Harsin two. Gus has 11 players remaining on the AU roster plus Manning who is starting at Kentucky. That gives Gus 12 SEC quality O-linemen in three years. Four per year. Harsin has three in two years, 1 & 1/2 per year. Had Had Harsin maintained Gus's numbers he'd have brought in eight and AU would have 19 on our roster. We don't have 19.

As I stated earlier, the Gus bus needs a bumper sticker: "I might be slow but I'm ahead of you". :)

There are generally five classes. That’s not true currently with the super seniors (sixth year guys). That skews the numbers and has helped both Gus and Harsin paper over their failures. Troxell, Council, and Jackson should be gone by now under any normal metric. 

If you want to accurately analyze Gus’ OL recruiting, those guys should be out because they were signed in the 2016 and 2017 classes (I.e., six and seven years ago, which is outside the NCAA’s five-year eligibility window). 

Even counting Manning, the correct number is nine in three years. That’s awful. And if we’re going “SEC quality offensive linemen” as the metric, I’m not positive we can comfortably include guys like Irvin, Jernigan, or even Coffey who have yet to play meaningful downs. Two of those guys are seniors. Jernigan is still young.

In terms of SEC-quality guys (meaning guys who can play in the SEC) over the three classes that would usually make up a roster, Gus is somewhere between seven and nine… one of which plays at Kentucky. On the Auburn roster, he’s between 2 and 2.67 per year. Add in Harsin’s disaster last signing class (especially), and that’s the recipe for our lack of depth/quality. Imagine this OL without Trox and Council… 

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, cbo said:

Gus did a terrible job recruiting OL and now Harsin is doing a terrible job recruiting OL. 

YARN | End of discussion! Period! | The Sopranos (1999) - S02E02 Drama |  Video gifs by quotes | 62405915 | 紗

It's the boosters fault too.  Now I think we covered all of the bases.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Each year a school can sign 25 players to scholarships.

The maximum limit is 85.

Based on math, we should be signing on average 4 OLs per year, and have about 18 OLs on scholarship at any one time. Because OLs often redshirt, and rarely declare early for the NFL, so you are recruiting over a 5-year cycle, you don't need to sign 5 OLs every year. But you can expect some attrition, so you need more than 3 per year.

Additionally, there should be a somewhat even distribution. About 10 across Fr, RFr, So, and about 8 across Jr and Sr classes. You should have strong enough recruiting that some of your juniors are starting, and some of your second string are sophomores, so you don't lose an entire line to graduation.

I count 14 scholarship OLs not including Brahms. of those, 10 are seniors or juniors. Only 4 are freshmen, redshirt freshmen, or sophomores. We also have three preferred walk-on freshmen and redshirt freshmen on the OL.

Adding to that is the fact 5 of our seniors are COVID "super seniors" (again, not including Brahms). If not for the COVID extra year, what would our current OL look like?

Obviously all of the COVID super seniors are gone after this year. I show Kameron Stutts and Jalil Irvin as redshirt seniors who may have an extra year of eligibility due to COVID. After those, we are very thin on the offensive line, especially at OT.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we convince Keondre Jones and Kam Stutts to come back next year, we may yet ward off OL Armageddon. Those two plus Tate Johnson would give us a solid interior line to build around. But as noted, that’s only possible because Stutts gets an extra year. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guys, it is highly probable that when a tree falls in the forest, it does not make any noise if no one is around.  Think about that...and quit going to the forest!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Mike4AU said:

Guys, it is highly probable that when a tree falls in the forest, it does not make any noise if no one is around.  Think about that...and quit going to the forest!

If a tree falls in the forest with no human around, a squirrel will jump and run from the noise. This "tree in forest" idea has always been silly. Simple physics indicates that it makes the same noise, humans around or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...