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Keeping Harsin is the lesser of two evils


BanditQb
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95 posts since 2005…hmmm.

The optimistic side regarding Harsin is we need to cut ties because the relationship is bad and so is the team, permanently hamstringing his abilities to recruit for the remainder of his contract here.

The less optimistic side says that Harsin was a bad hire who came in with a plan that did not involve building relationships within the Auburn world, avoided hitting the road to build relationships with schools, ran off both coordinators, a fair chunk of staff and his starting QB while turning in a losing first season… all before the media circus began. Now he has put a product on the field that looks confused, undisciplined, soft and generally not prepared to compete at an SEC level, which negates the one selling point he had left of being a superior developer and on field coach. You keep this guy, you guarantee a Tennesse decline. I don’t see many bad moves Auburn could make that would produce a worse outcome.

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1 hour ago, BanditQb said:

We have to show some kind of consistency to SLOWLY build up the core players we need (O-line, D-line).   5 stars are not coming here right now (no matter the coach).

This is an argument to hire Mark Stoops, Sam Pittman, or a similar coach.

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1 hour ago, PigskinPat said:

Can you provide any evidence that Harsin has done anything to start.the process you speak of? And Harsin was doing nothing to help get a leg up in recruiting before the PTB did their thing. Not attending key events, visiting recruits we had a reasonable shot at, etc.

There are programs in the SEC that were dumpster fires of a program (namely Arkansas, Tennessee, and to an extent Ole Miss) and their coaches in fairly short order have turned them into competent, competitive programs.. I’ve seen nothing out of Harsin to suggest he’s doing the same here.

this is just plain stupid talk, Harsin beat 2 of the 3 teams you mentioned here?!?!?!?!?!

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22 minutes ago, eaglenest said:

this is just plain stupid talk, Harsin beat 2 of the 3 teams you mentioned here?!?!?!?!?!

I hope your reply was in jest, but if it wasn’t and if you think that we are on the same trajectory as those three teams, then I don’t know what to say to you. We can revisit this post after we play Ole Miss and Arkansas this season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(unnecessary exclamation points added to make my statement more legit)

 

Edited by PigskinPat
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2 hours ago, BanditQb said:

Everyone says "Harsin can't recruit".  How do we know this?  He was decimated by the PTB in the recruiting cycle last year and this year by trying to get rid of him.  

Just as an FYI, the allegations occurred after NSD 2022.  So the bad recruiting falls on Harsin alone.  Harsin is also the reason 80% of the recruits left the game before the fourth quarter on Saturday. 

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27 minutes ago, eaglenest said:

this is just plain stupid talk, Harsin beat 2 of the 3 teams you mentioned here?!?!?!?!?!

Harsin didnt beat Ole Miss, Lane Kiffen did.

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Have not posted in a while but thought I would share with board.  For those that want a change, the calls are being made to explore all options available.  We have to keep in mind the millions that we are already paying out for previous leadership mistakes and adding to that balance is only going to allow for those influencers to retain even more power and control over the program.  I know some will say that doesn't matter or it even doesn't exist and no one outside the actual program is calling any significant shots but that would be as false and untrue as to say the sun will rise again tomorrow.  

 

Both elite in state schools have benefited in the past from having these big-time power brokers sitting in the shadows making calls.  However, over the last 20+ years the game has changed, the infrastructure has changed, the good-ole boy strategy is no longer a benefit to major programs as it once was in the 70s, 80s and early 90s.  It's tearing programs down from the inside out, its holding once proud programs hostage from being able to adapt with the changing times, it's creating a vicious cycle of temporary success followed by extreme failure, rinse and repeat.  You want to know the biggest difference between Auburn and Bama today and why one of the two schools has seen consistent success for so long?  It's not just because Bama hit a home run with Saban.  It's because they started breaking away from the constant stranglehold of the good ole boy cult that had let run their program for years.  They realized it was hurting now much more than it was helping.  it was not easy, and they still have not severed all ties, but they went after an Ultra Alpha Leader to come in with Saban and they gave him as much control and power as anyone has ever had since Bryant.  They ignored the silent voices more than ever and they trusted in their leader to help them escape the past. 

 

If Auburn is going to break out of that same toxic cycle that has been happening for the last 20 years, then something has to change internally.  We can all yell and scream all we want.  We can even hit a triple with a hire.  But we will not hit a home run no matter who the hire is unless we start cutting ties with the shadow warriors who are running the football program.  The only way to truly do this is to take the power away from them.  That has to start by not being in financial debt and obligation to them for continuing to bail out the program with another "loan/payoff".  If now is the time, pay off Harsin today.  Go out and hire a solid coach that will come to the plains and restore order, tradition, loyalty, excitement and respect to the program.  But the most important part is there must be no multi-million-dollar buyout clause.   You may be thinking that's not possible this day in time, but I would personally disagree.  There are many strong coaching candidates that I believe would come to Auburn without some golden parachute buyout that they can retire.  Go find that coach, we like to say it but let's actually mean it this time, find a true "Auburn" leader to take the reins.  Finding that coach will be the easy part.  Cutting off the network of elite power brokers on the inside is what is going to be the most challenging part of this transition.  But we have to ask ourselves, what do we have to lose at this point?  Why do we keep accepting old school way of thinking when it's no longer working?

 

It's time for true change and it's going to take some real leaders to step up, strap up their boots, hard work and to build back the respect, honesty, trust and humility in the program.  If we continue to do the same thing but just use different pieces, we will continue to get the same results.  Use your voices, your influences to energize and educate the fan base around you.  We all may not agree on who to hire, when it should be done, what type of team we want, but I believe we all can agree we are ready to see a program that is once again respected year in and year out and not one that keeps giving other fan bases fodder for their amusement.  It's time for culture change from within, true Auburn leaders need to step up!!!     

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4 hours ago, HabitualChiller said:

Fam, the only good unit on the team are the Running Backs. It'd be a gift from God if we pulled off 6 wins.

This is true. Our backs did run hard, but they also missed a few blocks. Of course, blocking may not be Caddy's strongest coaching suit.

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3 hours ago, AUgrad97 said:

Have not posted in a while but thought I would share with board.  For those that want a change, the calls are being made to explore all options available.  We have to keep in mind the millions that we are already paying out for previous leadership mistakes and adding to that balance is only going to allow for those influencers to retain even more power and control over the program.  I know some will say that doesn't matter or it even doesn't exist and no one outside the actual program is calling any significant shots but that would be as false and untrue as to say the sun will rise again tomorrow.  

 

Both elite in state schools have benefited in the past from having these big-time power brokers sitting in the shadows making calls.  However, over the last 20+ years the game has changed, the infrastructure has changed, the good-ole boy strategy is no longer a benefit to major programs as it once was in the 70s, 80s and early 90s.  It's tearing programs down from the inside out, its holding once proud programs hostage from being able to adapt with the changing times, it's creating a vicious cycle of temporary success followed by extreme failure, rinse and repeat.  You want to know the biggest difference between Auburn and Bama today and why one of the two schools has seen consistent success for so long?  It's not just because Bama hit a home run with Saban.  It's because they started breaking away from the constant stranglehold of the good ole boy cult that had let run their program for years.  They realized it was hurting now much more than it was helping.  it was not easy, and they still have not severed all ties, but they went after an Ultra Alpha Leader to come in with Saban and they gave him as much control and power as anyone has ever had since Bryant.  They ignored the silent voices more than ever and they trusted in their leader to help them escape the past. 

 

If Auburn is going to break out of that same toxic cycle that has been happening for the last 20 years, then something has to change internally.  We can all yell and scream all we want.  We can even hit a triple with a hire.  But we will not hit a home run no matter who the hire is unless we start cutting ties with the shadow warriors who are running the football program.  The only way to truly do this is to take the power away from them.  That has to start by not being in financial debt and obligation to them for continuing to bail out the program with another "loan/payoff".  If now is the time, pay off Harsin today.  Go out and hire a solid coach that will come to the plains and restore order, tradition, loyalty, excitement and respect to the program.  But the most important part is there must be no multi-million-dollar buyout clause.   You may be thinking that's not possible this day in time, but I would personally disagree.  There are many strong coaching candidates that I believe would come to Auburn without some golden parachute buyout that they can retire.  Go find that coach, we like to say it but let's actually mean it this time, find a true "Auburn" leader to take the reins.  Finding that coach will be the easy part.  Cutting off the network of elite power brokers on the inside is what is going to be the most challenging part of this transition.  But we have to ask ourselves, what do we have to lose at this point?  Why do we keep accepting old school way of thinking when it's no longer working?

 

It's time for true change and it's going to take some real leaders to step up, strap up their boots, hard work and to build back the respect, honesty, trust and humility in the program.  If we continue to do the same thing but just use different pieces, we will continue to get the same results.  Use your voices, your influences to energize and educate the fan base around you.  We all may not agree on who to hire, when it should be done, what type of team we want, but I believe we all can agree we are ready to see a program that is once again respected year in and year out and not one that keeps giving other fan bases fodder for their amusement.  It's time for culture change from within, true Auburn leaders need to step up!!!     

I agree with this viewpoint. I thought Harsin maybe could be that Alpha. I wonder if AD Greene thought similarly as well???   

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5 hours ago, AEAugirl said:

Name ONE THING Harsin has improved related to Auburn’s program since he arrived in Auburn at the end of 2020.  Just one thing.  Anything.  

He's finally uniting the fan base. We all want him gone.

Edited by Cardin Drake
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When you see a dead end sign, you don't keep driving down the same road.  You turn around and alter your course.  That's where we are right now.

Edited by Brad_ATX
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  • WarTiger changed the title to Keeping Harsin is the lesser of two evils
5 hours ago, meh130 said:

This is an argument to hire Mark Stoops, Sam Pittman, or a similar coach.

Agree. We need a coach that can build a PROGRAM. 

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54 minutes ago, DAG said:

Getting defensive . Pressure getting to him 

I thought it was like that after the San Jose game. Honestly I think he knew after that game that we had a long way to go and saw the train coming right at him. He seemed nervous and out of character last week. Now he is just agitated at the media. 
Not an easy job- that comes with being a football coach in the sec 

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Just now, gr82b4au said:

I thought it was like that after the San Jose game. Honestly I think he knew after that game that we had a long way to go and saw the train coming right at him. He seemed nervous and out of character last week. Now he is just agitated at the media. 
Not an easy job- that comes with being a football coach in the sec 

He seemed way to restrained even more so than normally. He signed up for it. He his going to have to find a way to cope 

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35 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

When you see a dead end sign, you don't keep driving down the same road.  You turn around and alter your course.  That's where we are right now.

image.gif.006e18c098e395eee3ee2c1843378fb6.gif

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2 hours ago, WFE12 said:

 

Its gonna be sweet to watch anyone with an Idaho tag on their car leaving the building for the final time.

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10 hours ago, BanditQb said:

Guys we are in a bad situation no matter where you look.  Everyone wants Harsin gone now.  But then what coach in the world would want to come to Auburn?  Do you think the coach who would take the job would automatically be able to bring with him a good offensive line?  Would he be given 3 years of losing records to get an o-line?  Everyone says "Harsin can't recruit".  How do we know this?  He was decimated by the PTB in the recruiting cycle last year and this year by trying to get rid of him.  

We have to show some kind of consistency to SLOWLY build up the core players we need (O-line, D-line).   5 stars are not coming here right now (no matter the coach).  A good team is a long way off, but it would be an even longer way off by firing Harsin.

Unfortunately, the new AD will do what all new managers do and make a change just to make it look like they are doing something.  So we will be a very very long way off from having a football team that is fun to watch.

I can certainly understand your logic.  TBH, I had similar concerns when we got rid of CTT and CGM, but I could make some cases with both of them that at least we were consistently ranked, and there were some bright spots.  I'll even go so far as to say I'm and optimist and "make it work" kind of guy, but I don't see any areas where it looks like we've progressed this year, and in most areas we've regressed.  Especially the O-line.  IMO, the OL is probably the most needed area of this team from last year.  When you cant run AND don't have time to throw, you don't have a chance.   Yet, we made no progress there.

I'll still be pulling for the Tigers, and would love to see a miracle turn-around and eat crow, but I don't see that happening.  I also see your point that the PTB didn't do him any favors over the summer in recruiting.  But, he's not doing himself any favors now either.  The negative recruiting will be in full effect with the "hot seat" talk.  

Unfortunately, I don't see any way to change this now.  And whoever we do hire will also want an exorbitant buy out - I know I would.....  

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10 hours ago, BanditQb said:

Guys we are in a bad situation no matter where you look.  Everyone wants Harsin gone now.  But then what coach in the world would want to come to Auburn?  Do you think the coach who would take the job would automatically be able to bring with him a good offensive line?  Would he be given 3 years of losing records to get an o-line?  Everyone says "Harsin can't recruit".  How do we know this?  He was decimated by the PTB in the recruiting cycle last year and this year by trying to get rid of him.  

We have to show some kind of consistency to SLOWLY build up the core players we need (O-line, D-line).   5 stars are not coming here right now (no matter the coach).  A good team is a long way off, but it would be an even longer way off by firing Harsin.

Unfortunately, the new AD will do what all new managers do and make a change just to make it look like they are doing something.  So we will be a very very long way off from having a football team that is fun to watch.

Honestly, any change will bring improvement. Kiffin and Freeze could bring immediate offensive improvement. Grimes, Pittman, or Stoops could bring steady across the board improvement.

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3 hours ago, Cardin Drake said:

He's finally uniting the fan base. We all want him gone.

They said he was too chicken to make the move back in February, but Yella Man was playing the long game.

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I truly understand the power brokers but would AU make a head coaching change before getting an AD in place? This is Auburn, but still. 

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