Jake Crain bringing the heat

[gr82b4au 5,568]

3 minutes ago, Tmoney56 said:

TJ looked like the QB that we mauled in JHS two years ago. Same player, same results, with two years to get better. Didn't happen.

I will say in his defense that the coaching in this game was terrible. TJ would get on a role and the darn coach would sub in RA who would go backwards. Then bring TJ back in on 3rd and long. This happened a few times and it points to very bad coaching. 
However there are times that TJ made the same bad mistakes. His delivery is slow and he zones in on players. There is also one pass when we were in the red zone that he had a wide open player in the end zone and did not see him. 
It’s just a combination of a bad game plan and poor play. 
I was ready to write him off as an Jeremy Johnson but I think he is better than that. However one touchdown and five turnovers is not good through three games.

[AUght2win 6,815]

5 minutes ago, DAG said:

You don’t get to being a freaking head coach at an SEC program without work ethic. Come on man?

I don’t care who you are. You might fail at this level but to get to this point you have had to work your ass off. 

I mean… you really believe that? We had a head coach (Tubberville) who famously wouldn’t go the extra mile in recruiting, and it ended in his demise when Saban arrived.

Does CBH work hard in relation to the average lay person? Absolutely. But that doesn’t matter. The question is does he work hard in relation to Kirby Smart and Nick Saban? Does he put in the hard work required by this specific job? It doesn’t appear so. 

[e808 3,020]

19 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

no one has mentioned this but tj was benched because he was hurt. harsin said it. not sure how bad tho.

And TJ getting injured could have been avoided IMO. I am not the biggest TJ guy but he was done a total disservice in this game. He laid it all on the line. It’s all u can ask

Edited September 19, 2022 by e808

[DAG 33,955]

Just now, AUght2win said:

I mean… you really believe that? We had a head coach (Tubberville) who famously wouldn’t go the extra mile in recruiting, and it ended in his demise when Saban arrived.

Does CBH work hard in relation to the average lay person? Absolutely. But that doesn’t matter. The question is does he work hard in relation to Kirby Smart and Nick Saban? Does he put in the hard work required by this specific job? It doesn’t appear so. 

Yes I believe that . What you are saying is the equivalent of someone is not a good basketball player because they didn’t make it in the NBA. If you want to compare it relative to their peers . Okay fine . But people who have never even touch the 1% in their own field questioning someone’s work ethic ?! That’s laughable to me.

 

If you want to say I question is work ethic in comparison to the SEC coaches . Fine . Fair. The SEC is literally the best league . It’s not for everybody . Ask our previous QB who is lighting it up in the pac 12 now. You guys need to start making distinctions and not characterizing the whole of an individual based on one scenario. 

[Viper 3,120]

50 minutes ago, cbo said:

I truly believe the right coach can make improvements pretty quickly in today's world. I'm less optimistic we will hire the right guy, but it's obviously time to try.

It’s going to take a guy who not only knows the AL/GA/FL recruiting region, but more importantly, surrounds himself with assistants who also know it and embrace it 100%.

Chizik did exactly this by hiring Luper and Trooper, combined with the allure of Gus’ HUNH, turned recruiting around in ONE season. It was the invention of Big Cat Weekend.

So it can be done at AU again.

[DyeCampAlum 335]

Meh. I’m highly concerned about Harsin. But to say he’s never seen Auburn get dominated? I give you LSU in 2015.

[AUght2win 6,815]

To piggyback off my last statement, I don’t think it’s correct to call CBH “lazy” or anything of the sort. I am sure the guy works hard and puts in much more than a 40 hour week.

It’s more that this job in this conference requires your entire waking life. Kirby Smart recently said his life was so miserably imbalanced he almost just quit the UGA gig. It’s not healthy. I wish it didn’t require what it does require. 

But that isn’t reality. I think that’s the brick wall CBH ran into. He didn’t realize this job would require relentless 24 hour competition.

[Strychnine 1,802]

33 minutes ago, cbo said:

This is how I remember it, timing wise. Some hated Harsin from the start, some defended him until Saturday. 

But many of us got excited about Harsin in the beginning, then when he lost the last 5 games, wasn't recruiting well, hired an OC that lasted 10 days, and Mason left, it felt like a program in chaos. It wasn't any one thing, it was the combination. And that was before all the rumors and investigation. 

 

Boise State is a team that I make it a point to watch, when I am scrolling through channels and see one of their games on, as their games were often entertaining.  While I do not follow them at all, I did at least know who Harsin was, and his teams generally looked well prepared and played hard when I watched them.  I was excited when Auburn hired him, as my (albeit limited) knowledge of Boise State seemed to indicate that he was a good coach.  He showed up saying all the right things, but most new coaches do that.

It has indeed been the combination that has made me lose faith in Harsin, but probably recruiting more than anything else.  Auburn has at least 3 NFL pipelines on the schedule, every season.  Excellent recruiting, then developing that talent, is the only roadmap that leads to a program that is consistently competitive with them.  I see no evidence that an excellent recruiting foundation has been poured.  Without that, his eventual firing will always be a matter of when, not if.

[meh130 1,043]

Crain is right when he says "two things can be true." I will go further. Many things were true. Corn was not a good WR coach. Mason's defensive system was not the right fit for a Kevin Steele recruited defense. Mason's defensive system may have been the wrong defensive system for the SEC. Bobo was not a good OC. Harsin had no clue how to recruit in the deep south. Harsin and many of his assistants did not have the right fit to recruit in the SEC. Changing the offensive system from a spread option to an NFL pro-style in no way fit our personnel, especially our offensive line talent. Harsin dropped the ball on using the Portal and JUCO transfers to build a new offensive line.

Harsin's system worked at Boise. It worked in the Group of 5 in the Pacific Northwest. It simply does not translate to the Power 5 nor to the Southeast. I do not think Harsin would be very successful at an Oregon or Washington without major adjustments. I do not think Harsin would be very successful at a Sun Belt Group of 5 school without major adjustments. Power 5 in the South? Disaster.

Harsin wants to run an NFL-like program where every player is bought in and brings their A-game every day. That happened at Boise, where most of the players were just happy to be on scholarship after being ignored by Oregon and USC. You could go after the smart, motivated 2-star players and get a lot out of them. Boise's program was more appealing than Fresno State's.

There is a similar "NFL-like program" in the Power 5, and it is Bama. Nick Saban has a program where every player is bought in and brings their A-game every day. But his players are prima-donna 5-stars and high 4-stars. And it takes a very different kind of coach and a very different kind of staff to get that kind of mindset out of players who have been told they are future NFL talent since they were 14 years old.

That is not something that can easily be created overnight, at least not in a sustainable way. How do you make a 5-star all-state player hungry at the college level? How do you get a 5-star to wait their turn? How do you avoid the "Screw it, I'll just go to The Portal if I don't get what I want" mindset? How do you get a 5-star, or a high 4-star, to WANT to come to your program even if they may not start until their junior year?

We are not going to have that overnight. We are going to have to build a Kentucky or Ole Miss level of success before we can get to an Alabama or Georgia level of success. We need an SEC program builder, not a Pacific Northwest Group of 5 program maintainer.

[gr82b4au 5,568]

10 minutes ago, e808 said:

And TJ getting injured could have been avoided IMO. I am not the biggest TJ guy but he was done a total disservice in this game. He laid it all on the line. It’s all u can ask

Agreed. I posted the same above. Somebody on another board said they saw him in a sling. I have no idea if this is true or not. I do know that he is hurt again for the second year in a row while only playing five games last year and three this year. 
So the past two years the offensive line has been responsible for taking out Bo Nix and TJ twice. 

[AUght2win 6,815]

11 minutes ago, DAG said:

Yes I believe that . What you are saying is the equivalent of someone is not a good basketball player because they didn’t make it in the NBA. If you want to compare it relative to their peers . Okay fine . But people who have never even touch the 1% in their own field questioning someone’s work ethic ?! That’s laughable to me.

 

If you want to say I question is work ethic in comparison to the SEC coaches . Fine . Fair. The SEC is literally the best league . It’s not for everybody . Ask our previous QB who is lighting it up in the pac 12 now. You guys need to start making distinctions and not characterizing the whole of an individual based on one scenario. 

I mean, that’s kind of implied in the conversation man. But I made that distinction specifically, anyway. 

[NWALA Tiger 3,534]

57 minutes ago, DAG said:

That’s hilarious. He might’ve failed here but does he look like a dude that lacks work ethic? 

Yeah, not buying that. He's just not a good fit, it's that simple. He can be successful at other places

[NWALA Tiger 3,534]

56 minutes ago, Didba said:

Three coaches must be retained IMO, Ike, Etheridge, and Caddy.  Only way we retain some of our recruits and we keep players from transferring away.

Can't force that on new coach.  Gotta be his decision IMO

[Didba 5,256]

Just now, NWALA Tiger said:

Can't force that on new coach.  Gotta be his decision IMO

I need to edit that post LOL

[Tigers77 281]

43 minutes ago, DAG said:

Agree to disagree. I think if he goes to a place like Tempe after this experience he can be very successful. Baptism by fire is what he went through and I feel CBH will take the failures he has here, learn from them and grow. 

I agree and success is very differently defined at an Arizona St than at Auburn.  Average 7-8 wins a year and slip into a nice bowl game once or twice a decade and you can be king in Tempe.

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

Been out on Harsin and really not a fan of the direction since he let Coach Williams go and put one of the Boise Good Ol' Boys in that spot. Then Mason was gone and there was another Boise Good Ol' Boy.

At that point, you've basically said "Anything that happens is my doing." BoBo was let go and whaddaya know.... More Boise.

Now the Boise Bois just aren't cutting it with the product on the field AND there is no name recognition for recruiting so what are we even doing? Also people should have known Harsin probably wasn't going to be a good relationship builder when Smoke Monday came out and said:

You can talk about how he walked it back on the Combine statement but that's a guy not wanting to seem like a toxic player to his new coaches and employers.

This could be a tell as to why recruiting was so bad. If he doesn't understand the kids and isn't personable in an age where the kids have more power and clout than ever, it would make sense why recruiting has fallen to the kids who basically have nothing big to go to other than AU. Also why he delegated a lot of recruiting to his assistants, who, after the ousting of Corn, Mason, and BoBo were basically just nameless Boise faces other than Caddy. 

Held my silence on the regime for a while but I didn't have too good of a feeling about this staff.... Damn, wish we had another WR coach to fire. That'd sure change things.

[bigbird 60,367]

43 minutes ago, zeroforwinger said:

I don’t call that an abject failure. He ran a clean program, had a winning season every year, and was a good recruiter. You wanna see an abject failure, look at Hardin. 

Oh, you're one of those guys. Thanks for the heads up 

You're right, he ran a clean program and was an excellent ambassador for Auburn.  He, however, was an average head coach.  

As far as recruiting goes, he was and he wasn't.  Go back and see how many of his classes were all smoke and mirrors.  Sure, they were highly ranked, but they rarely filled the need of the roster.  That's not a good because it hurts more than it helps by unbalancing your roster and having to play catch-up at certain positions.

[aubearcat 2,132]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

 The next guy needs to be a portal savant

The right use of the portal can absolutely have AUburn competing relatively quickly. 

[aubearcat 2,132]

10 minutes ago, bigbird said:

 He, however, was an average head coach.  

At BEST. Be ready for a yearly 8-4 or maybe 9-3 and a loss to the big 10 or AAC in the bowl game. Once in a while you may get a horseshoe lucky win over bammer or ugaly (while they beat the brakes off AUburn when they win the game and in recruiting) but nothing that ever is going to lead to a solid foundation of competing with the best of the best on a regular basis. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by aubearcat

[tbone4jc 2,238]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

And that's how it should be. 

The instant and intense hatred for CBH after his announcement was strange. Too many got their lenses muddied in February and couldn't find their way back from the loud and unfounded rumors.  Many just doubled down on their hypocritical disdain in an attempt to save face. 

Those that were willing to show patience were criticized regularly. I do believe though that the majority of those lost their patience this last Saturday too.  I did. It was wholly embarrassing and we need to now pivot.

Absolutely me in a nutshell. I wanted him to be “the one” and was willing to be patient to a point. That point was Saturday past. Sucks we are here AGAIN but maybe, just maybe we get it right finally 

[abw0004 10,104]

Here is a theory that I kind of put together for about a year now but have been hesitant to ever say it because I don't want it to be misconstrued in any way.

I think we knew we were in for trouble on the recruiting with the type of players that were transferring out and the personality Harsin is known for.  A lot of these kids come from backgrounds that do not have father figures and sometimes mother figures in their lives and they are looking for coaches to help fill these voids to help them grow into men.  This is one area I hope we can all agree on that the Malzahn's excelled at.  Kristi really went out of her way to be a mother to a lot of these kids and Gus did the same by having players over for dinner weekly.  That really isn't Harsin's strongpoint, and he doesn't want it to be.  So, a lot of those types of players transferred out and many followed Gus to UCF.  I have noticed a lot of the players who like Harsin have really good family situations at home so they didn't need that father figure.  If you aren't willing to cater to all kinds of backgrounds, you really limit your pool of kids who are willing to look at your program.  I am not saying you need to open up your home, but surround yourself with staff who can help these guys with problems they may have back home, with girlfriends, etc.

I would have to go back and look at the numbers again but I believe when I did the math earlier this year Auburn has had over 40 players transfer out since Harsin took the job, which leads the country in players transferring out within the same timeframe of other programs with new coaches.  That should have told us that the personality of Harsin might simply not be a great fit here.  Not that he is a bad person, just not a great fit.  Arizona State might be that perfect fit, I have no idea.

[AuCivilEng1 10,995]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

And that's how it should be. 

The instant and intense hatred for CBH after his announcement was strange. Too many got their lenses muddied in February and couldn't find their way back from the loud and unfounded rumors.  Many just doubled down on their hypocritical disdain in an attempt to save face. 

Those that were willing to show patience were criticized regularly. I do believe though that the majority of those lost their patience this last Saturday too.  I did. It was wholly embarrassing and we need to now pivot.

It was never about February to me. February was just a mean to the ultimate end. It was always about his ability to recruit. I have been willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on the 5 losses at the end of last season. Though I still think that turned out to be a major sign. The things that Harsin talks about (fundamentals, x’ sand o’s, discipline, process, etc) were always the one thing I liked about him. He says the right things. But so far, it’s just been all talk. The team that played Penn St, was not prepared or disciplined AT ALL. Guys were out of position all day (Harsin’s words). You pair that with his sh**ty recruiting ability and rebellious attitude and you have a class A dud. 

[gr82b4au 5,568]

46 minutes ago, e808 said:

And TJ getting injured could have been avoided IMO. I am not the biggest TJ guy but he was done a total disservice in this game. He laid it all on the line. It’s all u can ask

Harsin just said both are fine. 

[metafour 4,958]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

This just was too much of an uphill battle for him. CBH will be successful after his tour at Auburn. I have no doubt in my mind about that. The vindictiveness of some here is ridiculous though. This is not an easy place to be and win at. The next guy will have to be a wizard and also deserves more patience than CBH received. Interesting to see the response this week. I really do hope he can get the Arizona state job. I think he could be competitive there. It will get him and his family back to their comfort zone.

LOL.

Imagine had Harsin had to have dealt with Tennessee's mess, like Heupel did. This guy inherited a capable SEC QB (Nix), a star RB (Tank), and a good defense. Tennessee lost nearly half their roster to the portal and all of their best players left; on top of the fact that they were much worse than Auburn to begin with.

I'm tired of hearing how Harsin apparently walked into a no-win situation. He created or exasperated all of his problems himself and didn't fix any of the problems that he inherited. Any coach who is brought in to replace someone who was fired is going to need to fix SOMETHING, so even suggesting that Harsin was limited because he inherited a poor OL is lame as s***. With massive resources, he doubled down on hiring his buddy-coaches from the MWC - and they all look hopelessly inept.

I don't think it's a given at all that he will be successful elsewhere. So far we've seen that he's capable of winning at a pre-built program where everything was left well oiled and tidy for him, and he already knew everything that needed to be known because his entire resume was spent coaching at that school. Where else is he going to get that same picture-perfect scenario? He's failed miserably at Auburn in a rebuild type scenario and he'll need to do that at 99% of the places that he'll need to go next. Good luck to him, maybe he's learned something here that will help him. Unfortunately for him, his comments and continual mentions about "the coup" suggest that he's probably just going to leave AU under the premise that he did nothing wrong and he just got treated unfairly here.

[abw0004 10,104]

@metafour, in a perfect world, who would you like to see take over as head coach?