St. Louis high school Shooting: Doors Locked; Metal Detectors; Seven Security Guards on Grounds: Shooter Still Gained entry and Killed.

[CoffeeTiger 5,084]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/25/us/st-louis-school-shooting-tuesday/index.html

 

19 year old former student brings a high capacity gun to his old school, somehow gains entry despite all the security features being present that the pro-gun lobby tells us will prevent school shootings from happening, and kills 2 people and injures several others before being taken out. 

 

In addition to school security, outside police made entry to the school about 4 mins. after the shooting incident started. No doubt the quick reaction by police saved a lot of lives, but the question has to be: What now? 

We're told by people like Sen Ted Cruz that if schools just lock their doors then shooters cant get inside: He still did....the police say they wont reveal how he made entry because they don't want to give others "any ideas" 

We're told that having guards and security will stop shooters because they only target gun free zones: In reality that doesn't matter. In many cases Shooters don't care if they live or die...they plan to go out in a "blaze of glory". Security on staff? Possibly armed? Shooters don't care..

Arm teacher? Shooters wont care. 

Police nearby? Shooters don't care

 

So what now? 

Just continue to accept that every so often...maybe once or twice a month we'll have a random school shooting somewhere in America as a price of our stupid obsession with guns, and we're suppose to accept that? Best Americans can do is hope and pray the next school shooting wont be at their kids/family members school?

 

That all we can do? Should we be happy and pump our fists whenever "only" 2 people die in a school shooting and not many more? Should this event be considered a success for pro-gun crowd because the shooters intended to kill more people but wasn't able to? 

 

Those beliefs may be true for a lot of Conservatives and NRA members, but eventually people are going to tire from all this and start valuing the lives of kids more than individual freedoms.....wonder how long that'll be? 

[aubiefifty 16,718]

crickets is all you will get from the right. the bare bones truth is they do not care as long as they get to keep their assault weapons. i mean hell we have been praying over this for two or three decades now? and christians say what. god first. then family. then country. i might have that order wrong but if these cats think jesus is ok with their actions while people kill our own school children just because they want the right to bear arms tells me all i need to know. they do not care period. i am so sure jesus is not down with this shooting and gun crap at all. because the bottom line is people are dying because of this stance. and idiot with a brain should pretty much understand you are putting your love of guns against the right of a child to live. ther care about those unborn babies but they just do not give a damn about those precious children getting gunned down regularly. it is sickening. if you ignore what they say and watch what they do it is clear as a bell.

[AUFAN78 3,890]

I'm a fan of security measures in schools. Will they prevent every incident? No. Nothing can.

Guns shouldn't be in the hands of these children particularly assault weapons. Parental awareness is critical as is accountability. Gun reform is necessary. 

[homersapien 11,354]

The country is failing on this and the people most responsible for that failure aren't going to just disappear as long as there is money to be made.

It's going to get worse. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pensacolatiger 313]

5 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/25/us/st-louis-school-shooting-tuesday/index.html

 

19 year old former student brings a high capacity gun to his old school, somehow gains entry despite all the security features being present that the pro-gun lobby tells us will prevent school shootings from happening, and kills 2 people and injures several others before being taken out. 

 

In addition to school security, outside police made entry to the school about 4 mins. after the shooting incident started. No doubt the quick reaction by police saved a lot of lives, but the question has to be: What now? 

We're told by people like Sen Ted Cruz that if schools just lock their doors then shooters cant get inside: He still did....the police say they wont reveal how he made entry because they don't want to give others "any ideas" 

We're told that having guards and security will stop shooters because they only target gun free zones: In reality that doesn't matter. In many cases Shooters don't care if they live or die...they plan to go out in a "blaze of glory". Security on staff? Possibly armed? Shooters don't care..

Arm teacher? Shooters wont care. 

Police nearby? Shooters don't care

 

So what now? 

Just continue to accept that every so often...maybe once or twice a month we'll have a random school shooting somewhere in America as a price of our stupid obsession with guns, and we're suppose to accept that? Best Americans can do is hope and pray the next school shooting wont be at their kids/family members school?

 

That all we can do? Should we be happy and pump our fists whenever "only" 2 people die in a school shooting and not many more? Should this event be considered a success for pro-gun crowd because the shooters intended to kill more people but wasn't able to? 

 

Those beliefs may be true for a lot of Conservatives and NRA members, but eventually people are going to tire from all this and start valuing the lives of kids more than individual freedoms.....wonder how long that'll be? 

If you make the guns illegal no one can get them!  Just like illegal drugs…….

[CoffeeTiger 5,084]

1 minute ago, pensacolatiger said:

If you make the guns illegal no one can get them!  Just like illegal drugs…….

So why not legalize all the drugs and regulate/tax them? 

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by CoffeeTiger

[pensacolatiger 313]

22 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

So why not legalize all the drugs and regulate/tax them? 

 

This is the way…..

[icanthearyou 4,462]

Our gun culture is cowardly and stupid.

[jj3jordan 2,040]

On 10/25/2022 at 9:49 AM, aubiefifty said:

crickets is all you will get from the right. the bare bones truth is they do not care as long as they get to keep their assault weapons. i mean hell we have been praying over this for two or three decades now? and christians say what. god first. then family. then country. i might have that order wrong but if these cats think jesus is ok with their actions while people kill our own school children just because they want the right to bear arms tells me all i need to know. they do not care period. i am so sure jesus is not down with this shooting and gun crap at all. because the bottom line is people are dying because of this stance. and idiot with a brain should pretty much understand you are putting your love of guns against the right of a child to live. ther care about those unborn babies but they just do not give a damn about those precious children getting gunned down regularly. it is sickening. if you ignore what they say and watch what they do it is clear as a bell.

So fiddy what is your solution?

[DKW 86 7,411]

On 10/25/2022 at 9:35 AM, CoffeeTiger said:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/25/us/st-louis-school-shooting-tuesday/index.html

Security on staff? Possibly armed? Shooters don't care..

Arm teacher? Shooters wont care. 

Police nearby? Shooters don't care

1000 GUN LAWS? SHOOTERS DONT CARE.

Edited November 1, 2022 by DKW 86

[CoffeeTiger 5,084]

2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

1000 GUN LAWS? SHOOTERS DONT CARE.

 

Seems to work for every other civilized society out there that doesn't approve of their school children getting gunned down constantly. 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by CoffeeTiger

[DKW 86 7,411]

1 minute ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

Seems to work for every civilized society out there that doesn't approve of their school children getting gunned down constantly. 

How is that working in Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit?

Please remember to take suicides out of the numbers too. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,084]

3 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

How is that working in Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit?

 

For the same reason "gun free zones" don't work for schools....because guns  and relaxed gun laws are easily and readily alliable everywhere immediately around them in just a 5-10 min drive away. 

 

We're talking national laws. national action. A gun free zone in a school doesn't mean anything when 2 miles away there is a gun shop where any high school senior can buy a AR. 

 

3 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

 

 

Please remember to take suicides out of the numbers too. 

Why? 

Just like guns make murder much easier and more accessible, they make suicide easier and more accessible. 

 

 

Again...The United States is the only modern nation that has these problems. Stop pretending like there aren't solutions or that we don't know if stricter gun laws 

work or not. We know they do...we, as a nation, just don't value human life enough yet to do anything about it. 

 

 

 

[autigeremt 6,569]

On 11/1/2022 at 9:30 AM, CoffeeTiger said:

 

Seems to work for every other civilized society out there that doesn't approve of their school children getting gunned down constantly. 

 

 

So take them all, right? End the 2nd Amendment, right? Let's just get to the truth of the matter here. Stop acting like a law will help this situation end. 

[Leftfield 2,585]

55 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

So take them all, right? End the 2nd Amendment, right? Let's just get to the truth of the matter here. Stop acting like a law will help this situation end. 

This statement is exactly why almost nothing can ever get done on gun violence. As soon as someone even whispers something to the effect of scaling back gun rights, many will scream "next thing you know they'll be repealing the 2nd Amendment, because that's what they REALLY want!!!" It becomes a rallying cry for gun rights activists, further hyperbole gets spewed about an overreaching and authoritarian government taking over because we'd be defenseless without our guns, and all thought on the subject is removed.

Why do you jump straight to ending the 2nd Amendment? There are many, many degrees in-between.

[autigeremt 6,569]

29 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

This statement is exactly why almost nothing can ever get done on gun violence. As soon as someone even whispers something to the effect of scaling back gun rights, many will scream "next thing you know they'll be repealing the 2nd Amendment, because that's what they REALLY want!!!" It becomes a rallying cry for gun rights activists, further hyperbole gets spewed about an overreaching and authoritarian government taking over because we'd be defenseless without our guns, and all thought on the subject is removed.

Why do you jump straight to ending the 2nd Amendment? There are many, many degrees in-between.

I go to the 2nd Amendment because I don’t believe Democrats in their rhetoric.I’d like to get an honest answer. 

[arein0 947]

7 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

I go to the 2nd Amendment because I don’t believe Democrats in their rhetoric.I’d like to get an honest answer. 

That's what you've been groomed to think.  

Again this is another issue where the left wants moderation and the right is telling the sheep they want to take your guns away.

Why is it easier to buy a gun than go through airport security?

[CoffeeTiger 5,084]

51 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

I go to the 2nd Amendment because I don’t believe Democrats in their rhetoric.I’d like to get an honest answer. 

 

This is what Republicans and the NRA have been saying about Democrats for literally decades. 

If what you are saying was true then don't you think Dems. would have tried it by now? 

 

 

Millions of Democrats and liberals own guns and don't want them taken away, they want common sense gun reform and to save lives.

[autigeremt 6,569]

1 hour ago, arein0 said:

That's what you've been groomed to think.  

Again this is another issue where the left wants moderation and the right is telling the sheep they want to take your guns away.

Why is it easier to buy a gun than go through airport security?

I took an oath to support and defend the COTUS. Until it's changed I will continue to do so. Democrats can't seem to understand this....or refuse to accept it. 

History has proven that governments, when given too much power, have turned on their own people time and time again. I'll stick with being able to defend myself whether you like it or not. No "grooming" needed. 

[autigeremt 6,569]

25 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

This is what Republicans and the NRA have been saying about Democrats for literally decades. 

If what you are saying was true then don't you think Dems. would have tried it by now? 

 

 

Millions of Democrats and liberals own guns and don't want them taken away, they want common sense gun reform and to save lives.

Common sense my ass! Democrats (and Republicans alike on other issues) wouldn't know common sense if it hit them in the face. 

[Leftfield 2,585]

24 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

Common sense my ass! Democrats (and Republicans alike on other issues) wouldn't know common sense if it hit them in the face. 

You are not using logic-based arguments. You are using rhetoric and avoiding discussion of the issue.

Do you disagree that making it extremely difficult to own a large-capacity, military-style rifle would be a reasonable first step?

[autigeremt 6,569]

11 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

You are not using logic-based arguments. You are using rhetoric and avoiding discussion of the issue.

Do you disagree that making it extremely difficult to own a large-capacity, military-style rifle would be a reasonable first step?

Military-Style? Do you read the stats or just go with the "rhetoric"? In 2021, 6,012 murders were committed using....a handgun. Guess how many were committed using a rifle? 447. There were more murders committed with hands, fists or other body parts (461) than rifles. 1,035 with knives or other cutting instruments. 

So......can you tell me where the "rhetoric" is coming from? 

 

statistic_id195325_murder-victims-by-weapon-used-in-the-us-2021.pdf

Edited November 9, 2022 by autigeremt

[Leftfield 2,585]

1 minute ago, autigeremt said:

Military-Style? Do you read the stats or just go with the "rhetoric"? In 2021, 6,012 murders were committed using....a handgun. Guess how many were committed using a rifle? 447. There were more murders committed with hands, fists or other body parts (461) than rifles. 1,035 with knives or other cutting instruments. 

So......can you tell me where the "rhetoric" is coming from? 

 

statistic_id195325_murder-victims-by-weapon-used-in-the-us-2021.pdfUnavailable

So, what would you prefer I call them, rather than military-style? I assume you know what I'm referring to when I say that, so please, set me straight.

Your argument is that, since more murders were committed using handguns, we shouldn't do anything? Do you think that might be counter-productive to your cause? If people resist addressing the more common-sense changes, then your "rhetoric" about taking all guns becomes more probable, because eventually people will become fed up enough to do it. 

Can you explain why many of these mass shooters use rifles instead of handguns?

[autigeremt 6,569]

30 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

So, what would you prefer I call them, rather than military-style? I assume you know what I'm referring to when I say that, so please, set me straight.

Your argument is that, since more murders we committed using handguns, we shouldn't do anything? Do you think that might be counter-productive to your cause? If people resist addressing the more common-sense changes, then your "rhetoric" about taking all guns becomes more probable, because eventually people will become fed up enough to do it. 

Can you explain why many of these mass shooters use rifles instead of handguns?

I would call them rifles. Military-style weapons aren't the same as what you buy in the gun shop. They may be dressed up to look like them, but they are still semi-automatic small arms. Your party likes to use the term AR-15 for everything but it's not military-style. Maybe addressing the people part of this could actually bring down the mass shootings? Gun laws won't do it. It's a people problem we have in America. The kind of problem politicians love to use for their own "weaponization". 

Maybe it's the unfiltered war games on the computer (making it easier to conceive such a move by these killers)? Maybe it's the lack of parenting in the home? Maybe it's the degradation of the moral compass in this country? Maybe it's the systematic destruction of good v evil? I know I've seen a startling shift in young people the last 15 years. We are paying a heavy price for the sickness that has been created by the ruling class. 

[Leftfield 2,585]

1 hour ago, autigeremt said:

I would call them rifles. Military-style weapons aren't the same as what you buy in the gun shop. They may be dressed up to look like them, but they are still semi-automatic small arms.

Fine, I'll just call them semi-automatic rifles. I think you'll agree, though, that part of the appeal for many is how much they look like military weapons.

1 hour ago, autigeremt said:

Your party likes to use the term AR-15 for everything but it's not military-style.

You're making a mistake. I am not a Democrat. True, I support them much more right now than I do Republicans, but that was not the case in the past. I'll admit that my views have shifted on a number of subjects over the years, but I am not in lock-step with Democrats.

Also, please correct me if I'm wrong, but is the AR-15 not basically the semi-automatic version of the M16? 

1 hour ago, autigeremt said:

Maybe addressing the people part of this could actually bring down the mass shootings? Gun laws won't do it. It's a people problem we have in America. The kind of problem politicians love to use for their own "weaponization". 

Maybe it's the unfiltered war games on the computer (making it easier to conceive such a move by these killers)? Maybe it's the lack of parenting in the home? Maybe it's the degradation of the moral compass in this country? Maybe it's the systematic destruction of good v evil? I know I've seen a startling shift in young people the last 15 years. We are paying a heavy price for the sickness that has been created by the ruling class. 

Certainly we need to do a better job of addressing mental health in this country, but do you really believe that's the primary driver? Our peers don't have this problem. Do you believe they are doing that much better job at addressing mental health?

Can't help but laugh at the computer games argument. I remember the outcry by Democrats back in the early 90's about violent video games.

As to your statement "It's a problem we have in America"...why? How are our peer nations different that this isn't really an issue for them?

Edited November 9, 2022 by Leftfield