Zeek's Case for Lane Kiffin

[TitanTiger 20,471]

13 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Right and I showed the players he took out on the field. It was still an all star team. I'm not cherry picking anything o literally looked at 3 teams he had when he coached and didn't even use his most talented team as my example. That's literally the complete opposite of cherry picking. I showed the roster that he had, not anybody he had and then lost but the team that he had and all of the talent that was available. If I really wanted to nail this down and show how silly this is I could show some of the rosters of the teams they went up against but I'm not.

But yeah like I said this is a question anybody should really ask. It's absolutely one of them. Just not one for you, for whatever reason.

But if people are going to use experience as a pro for some and a con for others yeah we should look at it all

He literally had one season where he coached a "loaded" team - 2010 and they were one game different in record from the even more loaded team Carroll had the year prior.  By the time the 2011 season rolled around, he'd lost 17 dudes off that roster to the NFL and was under severe sanctions that didn't allow him to restock the losses, but you think that's set up for success?

The issue isn't that you didn't look at experience, it's the wild conclusions you're drawing from it that ignores the full array of facts and circumstances.

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

38 minutes ago, TigerHorn said:

And if you read what he said carefully, he avoided the question of whether he (ie, Kiffen's agent) was in talks with AU.

Yep.

[cole256 17,039]

21 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

He literally had one season where he coached a "loaded" team - 2010 and they were one game different in record from the even more loaded team Carroll had the year prior.  By the time the 2011 season rolled around, he'd lost 17 dudes off that roster to the NFL and was under severe sanctions that didn't allow him to restock the losses, but you think that's set up for success?

The issue isn't that you didn't look at experience, it's the wild conclusions you're drawing from it that ignores the full array of facts and circumstances.

I don't know what's hard to understand I literally used the 2011 roster but whatever you can't understand

[Mike4AU 1,739]

1 hour ago, aubaseball said:

Don’t think that was the case but could be wrong.    I remember that the NCAA allegations were going on and Ole Miss tried to lay the blame on Houston Nutt.   Nutt’s attorneys did a request of all records including phone records.   That’s when it became public that HF was calling a female service 

You are correct.  Houston Nutt and his attorneys blew the lid off of that mess. Cohen didn’t have anything to do with that. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Mike4AU

[auburnatl1 4,847]

You can question his loyalty. likability, passion for recruiting, quirkiness, does it leave a hole at ole miss potentially for Prime to fill (who may have a higher ceiling), cost/value, ect.

But it terms of his proven ability to turn around a number of programs (not to elite levels but impressively good) is imo without peer in our current list.

[cole256 17,039]

2011 they started the year number 1 because all those people left mind you.....

[Mike4AU 1,739]

Does anyone know what Kiffin’s buyout would be if he leaves OM?  I have been unable to find that information. 

[TitanTiger 20,471]

1 minute ago, cole256 said:

I don't know what's hard to understand I literally used the 2011 roster but whatever you can't understand

The 2011 roster ended up having three guys drafted in the 2012 NFL Draft, a OT and DE in the first round and a RB in the 4th.  The 2013 draft had 4 USC guys, a 2nd, 3rd and two 4th rounders.  The 2014 draft had 4 guys - a 2nd, a 4th and a 5th rounder.  

That's not a loaded roster especially considering not all of those guys were stars in college right out the gate.  And again, he did have success that year - the last year he had a roster that wasn't quite yet gutted by scholarship sanctions.  They went 10-2 that season and except for the sanctions would have played for the Pac 12 title.  But that's literally it.  

I understand just fine.

[cole256 17,039]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

The 2011 roster ended up having three guys drafted in the 2012 NFL Draft, a OT and DE in the first round and a RB in the 4th.  The 2013 draft had 4 USC guys, a 2nd, 3rd and two 4th rounders.  The 2014 draft had 4 guys - a 2nd, a 4th and a 5th rounder.  

That's not a loaded roster especially considering not all of those guys were stars in college right out the gate.  And again, he did have success that year - the last year he had a roster that wasn't quite yet gutted by scholarship sanctions.  They went 10-2 that season and except for the sanctions would have played for the Pac 12 title.  But that's literally it.  

I understand just fine.

No you literally didn't but now you are getting there. The roster was loaded or they wouldn't have been ranked number 1 in the country. With their losses and stuff they were thought to be the number 1 team in the nation and he ended up winning like 7 games in a weak conference in 2012. Once again I literally put the guys names on here. Unless you are saying those guys didn't play they left you aren't making a point. I literally didn't even post their 2010 team because it was even more loaded. I used the 2012 roster. Those guys are the team AFTER the scholy cuts. 

Like I said you may want to sweep that under the rug but I'm not. And grow up bro you don't have to agree for whatever reason but nothing I said is a wild conclusion they are literally facts. What teams in the conference had more talent than them that they played against? What teams were more talented in their conference?

And @Zeek gthoh bro, he may be your boss or whatever but get real. You one time said something about Sanders team having more talent because he had one 5 star but you don't see the discrepancy here? I get it bro you guys like kiffen. Got it. He can be discussed too though

[TitanTiger 20,471]

2 minutes ago, cole256 said:

No you literally didn't but now you are getting there. The roster was loaded or they wouldn't have been ranked number 1 in the country. With their losses and stuff they were thought to be the number 1 team in the nation and he ended up winning like 7 games in a weak conference in 2012. Once again I literally put the guys names on here. Unless you are saying those guys didn't play they left you aren't making a point. I literally didn't even post their 2010 team because it was even more loaded. I used the 2012 roster. Those guys are the team AFTER the scholy cuts. 

Like I said you may want to sweep that under the rug but I'm not. And grow up bro you don't have to agree for whatever reason but nothing I said is a wild conclusion they are literally facts. What teams in the conference had more talent than them that they played against? What teams were more talented in their conference?

Ok, cole.  Yes, 12 years ago Lane Kiffin took over a top program that got smacked down by NCAA sanctions before he coached a down and only managed one 10 win season before the scholarship reductions and postseason ban took their toll.  By all means let's take that into consideration.  I'll leave to others to decide on how much weight something like that ought to be given.

[cole256 17,039]

Yes that's loaded

[cole256 17,039]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

Ok, cole.  Yes, 12 years ago Lane Kiffin took over a top program that got smacked down by NCAA sanctions before he coached a down and only managed one 10 win season before the scholarship reductions and postseason ban took their toll.  By all means let's take that into consideration.  I'll leave to others to decide on how much weight something like that ought to be given.

Lol I guess you missed all the posts and discussion about Sanders medical history and stuff. That's my entire point actually. 

But I guess it's all perspective. The way I see it is one year when everybody thought he had the number 1 team in the nation he coached them to 7 wins instead in a very weak conference. Maybe some others will wonder about that too.

[TitanTiger 20,471]

2 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Yes that's loaded

I posted the drafts.  They had some good players they but the NFL says weren't loaded.  At least not by the standards USC had been.  Remember, the year he got there they had 7 drafted and after his first season they had another 10 drafted.  Then it went to a comparative trickle.

And by 2012 they'd been able to sign 20 less players than all their competition so depth was becoming an issue.

When all the facts and circumstances are taken into consideration, I still disagree that Kiffin was set up for success.  He had a very small window before the effects were going to be felt.  He had some success (10-2 in 2011) and it dropped off after that.

I'm comfortable in light of all that, and the fact that it was a decade ago and I've seen him at as OC at Alabama, and HC at FAU and Ole Miss since then, to have him at or near the top of the list for potential Auburn coaches.  

 

[TitanTiger 20,471]

4 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Lol I guess you missed all the posts and discussion about Sanders medical history and stuff. That's my entire point actually. 

But I guess it's all perspective. The way I see it is one year when everybody thought he had the number 1 team in the nation he coached them to 7 wins instead in a very weak conference. Maybe some others will wonder about that too.

I don't care about whatever debates you've been having with people about Deion.  That's not an argument I was making.  Kiffin and Sanders are basically 1a and 1b to me right now.  I go back and forth on who I think would be best.  

[cole256 17,039]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

I posted the drafts.  They had some good players they but the NFL says weren't loaded.  At least not by the standards USC had been.  Remember, the year he got there they had 7 drafted and after his first season they had another 10 drafted.  Then it went to a comparative trickle.

And by 2012 they'd been able to sign 20 less players than all their competition so depth was becoming an issue.

When all the facts and circumstances are taken into consideration, I still disagree that Kiffin was set up for success.  He had a very small window before the effects were going to be felt.  He had some success (10-2 in 2011) and it dropped off after that.

I'm comfortable in light of all that, and the fact that it was a decade ago and I've seen him at as OC at Alabama, and HC at FAU and Ole Miss since then, to have him at or near the top of the list for potential Auburn coaches.  

 

I'm not saying because he screwed it up then he shouldn't be considered but EVERYBODY's good and bad are being discussed, his not so great moments can be discussed as well. He's not exempt. 

I think having more talent than everybody in your conference and a weak conference on top of that is a great set up for success. Just beat that one big ooc team and make sure you beat Stanford and you pretty much are going to the title game. 

[cole256 17,039]

3 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I don't care about whatever debates you've been having with people about Deion.  That's not an argument I was making.  Kiffin and Sanders are basically 1a and 1b to me right now.  I go back and forth on who I think would be best.  

Wasn't a debate with me, and I'm sure you don't care but because I guess you want to be gruffy you miss the point there as well. I didn't say that was an argument you were making, and I don't know why you are making arguments anyway actually. If this pissed you off so I can just imagine your reaction if I said I'm hesitant on kiffen because he has high blood pressure

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

This is classic

[TitanTiger 20,471]

1 minute ago, cole256 said:

Wasn't a debate with me, and I'm sure you don't care but because I guess you want to be gruffy you miss the point there as well. I didn't say that was an argument you were making, and I don't know why you are making arguments anyway actually. If this pissed you off so I can just imagine your reaction if I said I'm hesitant on kiffen because he has high blood pressure

I agree, high blood pressure is a dumb reason to question someone being our head coach.  In fact, I feel like lately folks have been making really stupid arguments against just about every major candidate. Hardly anybody digs into any details and just posts stupid hot takes as if they were handed down on stone tablets from Mount Sinai. 

[cole256 17,039]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I agree, high blood pressure is a dumb reason to question someone being our head coach.  In fact, I feel like lately folks have been making really stupid arguments against just about every major candidate. Hardly anybody digs into any details and just posts stupid hot takes as if they were handed down on stone tablets from Mount Sinai. 

That's literally all I was saying. If we don't get Sanders kiffen is the person I want. It seems like you can't even want a guy unless he's won 2 titles played and coached in the sec. Never lost a game. Started coaching when he was 13. Recruited in the sec. Never had a surgery. Have mutant powers. And is an undefiled virgin.

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

4 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I agree, high blood pressure is a dumb reason to question someone being our head coach.  In fact, I feel like lately folks have been making really stupid arguments against just about every major candidate. Hardly anybody digs into any details and just posts stupid hot takes as if they were handed down on stone tablets from Mount Sinai. 

My question on Kiffin is this.. If he beats Bama , he will be squarely in the playoff race. Would he leave Ole Miss at the end of November, if that's the case? Also would AU be willing to wait on him till Jan? I know Kelly left ND last yr while they were vying for a playoff spot. But this seems different? 

[DAG 33,955]

3 hours ago, NWALA Tiger said:

Pains me to hear you say that...LOL.. I'm sticking with Deion, Danny Hugh,  Kiffin.. In that order . I still also predict it will be Danny Hugh's job. I wish it could be Caddy. But it won't 

I mean Deion is my

primary for sure. But let’s be real, I believe Hugh Freeze is the current best coach out of all of them. 

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

I mean Deion is my

primary for sure. But let’s be real, I believe Hugh Freeze is the current best coach out of all of them. 

If u think Danny Hugh is the best coach, why isn't he your #1?

[DAG 33,955]

1 minute ago, NWALA Tiger said:

If u think Danny Hugh is the best coach, why isn't he your #1?

Best at coaching  from an X&O standpoint but I don’t think he has a higher ceiling than someone like Deion. It’s the Pete Carroll vs Sean McVay argument.

[AU-24 3,063]

5 hours ago, Bro Johnny Mac said:

I think Prime would be the best option.

But, I don’t understand why people trash other options..

If we hire Kiffin, it will be a fantastic hire. He would relish going toe to toe with Saban..

Great post!  It’s a shame more people don’t have this attitude about their number one guy.

[AU-24 3,063]

4 hours ago, GreenTiger said:

Interesting. Greg McElroy says no chance for Lane at Bama. Saban will have direct input on his predecessor and Lane ain’t happening 

He is probably correct, but remember he also said he had inside information that Harsin would finish the season.