My closing case for Deion

[Mikey 16,545]

If you haven't voted yet, GO VOTE! There is indeed a heavy turnout for a mid-term election, maybe even what would be a heavy turnout for a presidential election. I voted before noon and was already number 63 on the vote count! There were five total voters in there at once! This in a precinct that normally has around 130 total votes counted. Yes, I live in the sticks of rural Alabama.

We can get back to praising/questioning Sanders after dark. The internets will still be here.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Mikey

[alexava 6,973]

I haven’t seen it discussed yet. I kinda skim threads now. But Deion started coaching when his son got college age. Aside from the fact that he will probably only stay in until his son is done….. Are you ready to accept that his son is the QB1 for 2 years. No matter who else is there. Folks here were mad and stupidly claimed Bo Nix was the QB1 because of who HIS DADDY WAS.

   All said his son might be better than anything we have now. But we would likely be stuck with him either way.  

[DAG 33,955]

8 hours ago, alexava said:

I haven’t seen it discussed yet. I kinda skim threads now. But Deion started coaching when his son got college age. Aside from the fact that he will probably only stay in until his son is done….. Are you ready to accept that his son is the QB1 for 2 years. No matter who else is there. Folks here were mad and stupidly claimed Bo Nix was the QB1 because of who HIS DADDY WAS.

   All said his son might be better than anything we have now. But we would likely be stuck with him either way.  

These fans will accept any and everything if it is someone they like. 

[alexava 6,973]

5 hours ago, DAG said:

These fans will accept any and everything if it is someone they like. 

I like him. I would accept him. That doesn’t mean it makes sense. 

[gr82b4au 5,568]

Well, reading between the lines in what rivals seems to know, Deion is not at the top of the list. 
 

[auburnatl1 4,839]

6 hours ago, gr82b4au said:

Well, reading between the lines in what rivals seems to know, Deion is not at the top of the list. 
 

Maybe. But since one of the first rules of negotiation (assuming we’re not bumbleheads) is don’t ever show your hand early and misdirect constantly with red herrings - I assume any magic list at this point is a misdirect.

Edited November 10, 2022 by auburnatl1

[AUwent 3,747]

5 hours ago, gr82b4au said:

Well, reading between the lines in what rivals seems to know, Deion is not at the top of the list. 
 

Who is?

[gr82b4au 5,568]

17 minutes ago, AUwent said:

Who is?

He was very vague. All he said was we have reached out to 2 peeps. 
someone else said “Deion moving up!” And he said No (although he wants Deion). 

[MaxCohen216 514]

On 11/4/2022 at 2:03 PM, auburnatl1 said:

The logic for Deion. No ra-ra (which is more fun). He is unlike any other hire we’ve (maybe any P5) ever considered and there’s no wise old man to talk to to figure it out. The opportunity is historically unique - no precedent - and therefore he’s been tagged by some as not grownup table thinking.  I believe that is a set in our ways mistake we would deeply regret. Potentially very quickly and for a long time. The case:

1) Recruiting/the portal -  We were getting crushed in recruiting before Harsin. And uga has benefitted. Deion, who’s brand is literally worth $10s if not $100s of millions alone, could be the most dominant force in all of college football. This will be hard for some to accept - but imo beyond Dabo and maybe even Saban. Immediately. He would dominate metro Atlanta (which has the population of ala and miss combined) and other southern, especially Fla/Texas, cities.   

2) elite coordinators. Deions intellect of the game is greatly underestimated and he knows to/can build the strongest most senior staff in college football.  And he could be helped with the large program experience concerns, as he transitions.

3) Financial. No $20-40m buyout. Straight deal.  Revenue from tv (ratings would be through the roof), and merchandise and tickets sales would increase radically. Strengthens NIL. Also, potential under amour impact.

4) hiring him instead of another coach doesn’t create a vacancy at a competitor that he might fill. I have absolutely no interest in competing against him.

5) Unifies the fan base and combined with Pearl, coalesces a fresh, high energy AU brand. Buries our current dysfunction rep. 

6) Turn around speed. Unlike lesser known or “redemption” candidates. Prime gives the highest impact velocity. Current train wreck recruiting class could be  resurrected to a top 5-10 realistically. 

7) Finally, our situation demands it. It’s historically bad. From every perspective. Solving this like our other messes just brings us back here in 3 yrs. Situations dictate the solution/candidate. We’re currently a fading afterthought with a disintegrating roster - and require a massive splash jump start.

Including Kiffin (who I accept as plan b), if ANY other option being discussed could directly challenge saban and Kirby,  as fast and with as high a ceiling as prime, I’d love to hear the name. And candidly I struggle with the risk arguments if people would fully think it through. Musk got where he is because he knew a good bet when others didn’t.  It’s that kind of moment. We could blow up the current elite status quo. IMO going Jaba safe is actually our highest risk possible. Unless the new goal is just improving and beating the mid tier programs most of the time. If so, 4-5 coaches being discussed can do that.

On the other hand...

- He has no D1 coaching experience, whatsoever.

- I'm afraid he might not have the capacity to be a truly tough coach, instead of pushing players beyond their perceived limits, to the point of questioning their manhood (like Nick Saban and Kirby Smart have learned to do).

- As a player, as great as he was (and he was great), the very last thing he wanted to do was tackle anyone.  He wanted to break up passes, make interceptions, and return punts.  But he was not very interested in tackling big backs with a running head start.  That speaks to toughness, or lack thereof.  Can he be tough and cultivate toughness when he was content to rely on his unworldy talent as a player and shun the toughness of tackling?

I don't know, and neither do you.

As great as his upside is (and it is great), he's as much of a gamble as either Lane Brain or Freeze.

[auburnatl1 4,839]

16 minutes ago, MaxCohen216 said:

As great as his upside is (and it is great), he's as much of a gamble as either Lane Brain or Freeze.

Yes they’re all bets (ie Mullen at uf was theoretically a sure thing). It’s about the odds and how high the payout is.  My math greatly prefers Deion but I understand your points.

[MaxCohen216 514]

8 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Yes they’re all bets (ie Mullen at uf was theoretically a sure thing). It’s about the odds and how high the payout is.  My math greatly prefers Deion but I understand your points.

I love Deion too.  Such a fresh face for college football and the (potentially) undisputed greatest recruiter ever.  Such a positive upside, but not a total sure success...

 

[Hank2020 3,195]

14 hours ago, MaxCohen216 said:

On the other hand...

- He has no D1 coaching experience, whatsoever.

- I'm afraid he might not have the capacity to be a truly tough coach, instead of pushing players beyond their perceived limits, to the point of questioning their manhood (like Nick Saban and Kirby Smart have learned to do).

- As a player, as great as he was (and he was great), the very last thing he wanted to do was tackle anyone.  He wanted to break up passes, make interceptions, and return punts.  But he was not very interested in tackling big backs with a running head start.  That speaks to toughness, or lack thereof.  Can he be tough and cultivate toughness when he was content to rely on his unworldy talent as a player and shun the toughness of tackling?

I don't know, and neither do you.

As great as his upside is (and it is great), he's as much of a gamble as either Lane Brain or Freeze.

I don’t think Lane Brain or Freeze is willing to Tackle the big backs either. Some of these arguments are just silly IMO. Definitely one of the best , if not THE Best DB. Way ahead of his time in the way he played.  As far as being tough enough, he has certainly got what he needed out if his players at every coaching stop. That seems to be the same to me, whether it is D1or not. But it is still a risk. All 3 are. Risks are different for each one.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Hank2020

[MaxCohen216 514]

13 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

I don’t think Lane Brain or Freeze is willing to Tackle the big backs either. Some of these arguments are just silly IMO. Definitely one if the best , if not the Best DB. Way ahead of his time in the way he played.  As far as being tough enough, he has certainly got what he needed out if his players at every coaching stop. That seems to be the same to me, whether it is D1or not. But it is still a risk. All 3 are. Risks are different for each one.

Yes, they all have risks.  I wish there was a 100% sure fire winner out there, like Saban was for Bama, and like Kirby was for UGA...ugh, we really missed out on Kirby.

They are the only sure-fire D1 coaching prospects in the past 20 years...and we have to play them twice per year forever...

We chose Gus over Kirby?  Oh well, we did.  And we are paying for it every year.

[Hank2020 3,195]

8 minutes ago, MaxCohen216 said:

Yes, they all have risks.  I wish there was a 100% sure fire winner out there, like Saban was for Bama, and like Kirby was for UGA...ugh, we really missed out on Kirby.

They are the only sure-fire D1 coaching prospects in the past 20 years...and we have to play them twice per year forever...

We chose Gus over Kirby?  Oh well, we did.  And we are paying for it every year.

I for one am tired of looking back, lets make the best decision possible and start building a future.

[cbo 7,801]

7 minutes ago, MaxCohen216 said:

Yes, they all have risks.  I wish there was a 100% sure fire winner out there, like Saban was for Bama, and like Kirby was for UGA...ugh, we really missed out on Kirby.

They are the only sure-fire D1 coaching prospects in the past 20 years...and we have to play them twice per year forever...

We chose Gus over Kirby?  Oh well, we did.  And we are paying for it every year.

You are right, but there were definitely some who weren't sold on Kirby as a HC. Said he was just running Saban's defense, had never been a HC, etc. And now some still say he's not a good coach, just a great recruiter, which is nonsense. 

Basically, I'm trying to support your point that there is no sure thing and all candidates have risks.

[MaxCohen216 514]

14 minutes ago, cbo said:

You are right, but there were definitely some who weren't sold on Kirby as a HC. Said he was just running Saban's defense, had never been a HC, etc. And now some still say he's not a good coach, just a great recruiter, which is nonsense. 

Basically, I'm trying to support your point that there is no sure thing and all candidates have risks.

Yeah, you're right.  All candidates have upsides and downsides.  If only Hugh wasn't a womanizer...he would be hands down the best choice.

But I'll bet both Saban and Kirby have had their share on the side too.  They just had better security and NDA forms signed.

[auburnatl1 4,839]

52 minutes ago, cbo said:

there is no sure thing and all candidates have risks.

We could do a 37 variable weighted algorithmic risk decision model. Or just ask a basic question: which candidate could attract the most 5 and 4* and build the most elite coaching staff? (Ie which one would absolutely scare the hell out of Kirby and saban the most?). No, its not that simple, but im getting warm.

Prime: Energy. Momentum. Elite talent. Nfl coaches. Exposure. Ect. Gracious. Ive watched us argue candidates from offensive schemes to hookers. Which is sort of useful I guess.   But when it comes to simply sheer excellence and a history of exceeding goals (without buyouts or creepy drama) - it’s pretty straight forward to me. Settling for less is our history. We’ll see.ps

Edited November 10, 2022 by auburnatl1

[cbo 7,801]

28 minutes ago, MaxCohen216 said:

Yeah, you're right.  All candidates have upsides and downsides.  If only Hugh wasn't a womanizer...he would be hands down the best choice.

But I'll bet both Saban and Kirby have had their share on the side too.  They just had better security and NDA forms signed.

I think it's unfair to assume Saban, Kirby, or whoever else have all cheated on their wives. But that doesn't even get to the crux of my distrust of Freeze. But I'm also not trying to get into that debate again. 

[cbo 7,801]

24 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

We could do a 37 variable weighted algorithmic risk decision model. Or just ask a basic question: which candidate could attract the most 5 and 4* and build the most elite coaching staff? (Ie which one would absolutely scare the hell out of Kirby and saban the most?). No, its not that simple, but im getting warm.

Prime: Energy. Momentum. Elite talent. Nfl coaches. Exposure. Ect. Gracious. Ive watched us argue candidates from offensive schemes to hookers. Which is sort of useful I guess.   But when it comes to simply sheer excellence and a history of exceeding goals (without buyouts or creepy drama) - it’s pretty straight forward to me. Settling for less is our history. We’ll see.ps

I agree. Deion is my #1 choice. His ceiling is through the roof.

People love the guy. The publicity for AU would be amazing. He would immediately flip Auburn's negative reputation with the media and, most importantly, HS coaches and recruits. 

I honestly believe whatever we pay him in salary (which would already be lower than some other candidates) we quickly get back in increased revenue. AU football would have new fans. We'd make a ton on merch alone. 

I think he would win. If not, he leaves us with a bunch of money and great players. Seems like the lowest risk to me. 

[cbo 7,801]

3 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

And money for him ain’t the issue. A repost from an other board. Combined wealth over a $100m.

I

 

No, money isn't an issue for him. It's not an issue for Saban or Dabo either, but they keep taking the raises because they deserve it, people like money, and it's a respect thing. 

So I think we would have to pay Deion a high salary. Working at AU isn't a mission in the way it is to coach at Jackson State. 

My point is, if we offer (which I kind of doubt), we better not lowball him. I could see him taking the right job and pledging to donate a significant portion to HBCU's. Let's help him with that. 

[woodford 3,655]

9 hours ago, cbo said:

No, money isn't an issue for him. It's not an issue for Saban or Dabo either, but they keep taking the raises because they deserve it, people like money, and it's a respect thing. 

So I think we would have to pay Deion a high salary. Working at AU isn't a mission in the way it is to coach at Jackson State. 

My point is, if we offer (which I kind of doubt), we better not lowball him. I could see him taking the right job and pledging to donate a significant portion to HBCU's. Let's help him with that. 

I can’t get past the whole “I love HBCU’s and support them but will definitely dip immediately if given a better opportunity.” Just seems like a giant virtue signal he’s using to parlay into a better job. Kind of sleazy but genius for him to get paid more one day. Deion is entertaining but he definitely gives off a politician like grifter vibe at times.  
 

Think of him recruiting for Auburn. If HBCU’s/JSU are so great then why would you go to Auburn? No one can honestly answer that question. Every answer will be a garbage political like excuse. 

It’s like a FCS coach at Samford or something who is gung-ho FCS and preaches about the league and how these small schools are so important and these small private schools need our support we can’t turn our back on them and then he takes an SEC job. You clearly believe that up to a point and then it ceases to matter. 

[cole256 17,039]

The thing about it the whole HBCU thing is misconstrued. It's something that one person said and everybody read and ran with it. Something that seems to happen here a bunch. 

[cole256 17,039]

35 minutes ago, woodford said:

I can’t get past the whole “I love HBCU’s and support them but will definitely dip immediately if given a better opportunity.” Just seems like a giant virtue signal he’s using to parlay into a better job. Kind of sleazy but genius for him to get paid more one day. Deion is entertaining but he definitely gives off a politician like grifter vibe at times.  
 

Think of him recruiting for Auburn. If HBCU’s/JSU are so great then why would you go to Auburn? No one can honestly answer that question. Every answer will be a garbage political like excuse. 

It’s like a FCS coach at Samford or something who is gung-ho FCS and preaches about the league and how these small schools are so important and these small private schools need our support we can’t turn our back on them and then he takes an SEC job. You clearly believe that up to a point and then it ceases to matter. 

This is absolutely ridiculous. Let's say even if it was true because he deems HBCU's are great he can't ever recruit against them?

So what about all the white D1 coaches that go from school to school. Let's take cristobal for example, he can't now recruit at orgeron and then Miami because he once said Alabama was a great school?

Ridiculous

[cole256 17,039]

12 hours ago, MaxCohen216 said:

On the other hand...

- He has no D1 coaching experience, whatsoever.

- I'm afraid he might not have the capacity to be a truly tough coach, instead of pushing players beyond their perceived limits, to the point of questioning their manhood (like Nick Saban and Kirby Smart have learned to do).

- As a player, as great as he was (and he was great), the very last thing he wanted to do was tackle anyone.  He wanted to break up passes, make interceptions, and return punts.  But he was not very interested in tackling big backs with a running head start.  That speaks to toughness, or lack thereof.  Can he be tough and cultivate toughness when he was content to rely on his unworldy talent as a player and shun the toughness of tackling?

I don't know, and neither do you.

As great as his upside is (and it is great), he's as much of a gamble as either Lane Brain or Freeze.

So have you actually watched him coach his team yet?

And the stuff about tackling I just don't know what you have going on with that. What you describe is what is said about corners in general. Then on top of that you have plenty of film of him tackling literally everybody. You do not have one play on film where you see him avoid a player because he seems scared. You are literally just saying stuff.

Lastly neither saban or smart questions their player's manhood. If they did they wouldn't even be successful. That's just what fans imagine needs to take place that don't actually play or work with kids. 

If that was truly successful then you would have corporations mirroring the template and when you go to work you would have bosses questioning their employees manhood. 

How tough was saban as a player that he wasn't even good enough to play pros? Do you think of that? The guys that weren't even talented enough to play at a high level don't have their toughness questioned but the guy who is regarded as the best to ever play his position isn't tough.......really think about what you are saying

[IronMan70 3,277]

A couple points. Deion is a 55 year old man now, not a college kid to be critiqued making tackles one way or the other. When it comes to coaching at Auburn vs supporting HBCUs, he can do both and there are several ways for him to do just that.

How would he explain to a kid to pick AU over a smaller school ? It's an easier path to get noticed and make it to the NFL. Speaking of professional football, that is what major CFB is now. To that point, Deion knows professional football and the NFL. That is yet another thing about him that good players value.