Who is the last QB that developed at Auburn?

[alexava 6,973]

11 hours ago, cbo said:

Like I said in the OP, Nix got better last season. But he still had the same old problems. Couldn't hit anyone deep, scrambled too early. I'm looking for demonstrable improvement by a QB while they were at AU. 

Bo got sink or swim training at auburn. No blocking or when he did get blocking, he was too shocked to realize it. And nasty defenses every week.  Then goes to Oregon and settles down. He got educated here. His deep ball is amazing compared to the last 3 years. It’s a sign of comfort, trust. 

[cbo 7,802]

14 hours ago, Sizzle said:

Auburn didn’t have 1st round picks coming through left and right but not everybody “sucked”. 

Never said everybody sucked. But QB play has been a problem more often than not in the last 20 years. 

[cole256 17,039]

Bo just completing a deep pass makes him look incredible now. Many QB's transfer goes to a place where there is a step down of talent then play better. Some guys just need everything to be perfect to perform, some guys are going to perform no matter what

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

LOL

[Tiger 8,818]

Jason Campbell. 

Brandon Cox seemed to take a step back each year. 

Kodi went to WR

Chris Todd improved big time from first to second season

Nick Marshall stayed about the same from Jr to senior year. Marginal improvement. 

Jeremy Johnson major regression from freshman year

Sean White marginal improvement at best

Stidham regressed from first to second season

And Bo Nix is balling now at Oregon. We have have mediocre QB play for way too long

[bigbird 60,368]

Tubs: 

Campbell

Cox

 

Chiz: 

Todd

Cam 

 

 Gus:

Trotter

Moseley 

Frasier 

Woody 

White 

Johnson 

Queen

JF3 

Willis 

Gatewood

Garrett 

Stidham

Nix 

 

CBH:

Nix 

Finley 

Ashford 

 

 

From that list, it has to be Campbell. He's the only one that went from really struggling to a NFL QB. The last decade has been atrocious.

 

Willis developed but away from Auburn 

[gr82b4au 5,568]

That list of QBs under Gus, along with the OL, makes me sick. 

[Mikey 16,550]

3 minutes ago, bigbird said:

From that list, it has to be Campbell. He's the only one that went from really struggling to a NFL QB. The last decade has been atrocious.

I see you conveniently omitted Nick Marshall. Did you forget about him or simply want to make Gus look worse than he really was? As far as Campbell goes, he was a 5* recruit and had the luxury of redshirting for a year. I don't think there was ever a time when he wasn't considered a top talent. Don't you remember when he was going through his redshirt year the players were calling him "The future"? J. Campbell becoming a first round QB pick was no surprise to anybody.

[gabo4au 227]

11 hours ago, cbo said:

Never said everybody sucked. But OL play has been a problem more often than not in the last 20 years. 

 

There fixed it. Our QBs have sucked for a long time due to our terrible line play for a long time. As has been noted by several others. No QB can perform if they are running for their life every play. The better QBs we've had, were in times when we had at least adequate OL play. 

Yes, a QB can also make the line look better. They can get rid of the ball quickly, but for a pro style passing system that's not very effective in College due to the limited amount of time, youth of the players etc. You see long tenured Pros do that more effectively, like Tom Brady, because they read defenses so well and have so many hot routes that are perfected between receivers and QBs. That's difficult to do in College.

Then there are the slippery, scrambling QBs that can extend plays. Those are more prevalent in College, we've had some good ones, but that is effective when you have at least an average line such that you don't have a full and quick breakdown of multiple rushers coming through quickly. We've had that with Cam, Nick, Jason, etc. But in the last 4-5 years the line has been so bad, those QBs can't get any consistency.

Then you have schemes that can help, Gus's scheme was based on this, the "zone read" plays where a good ball handling QB like Nick Marshall or Cam can make a few guys miss. But again, this isn't effective if the entire defensive line is coming through. You can't read and juke everyone, only a couple of guys at the most. Sure there are plays where it happens, times when Nix made the entire defense look foolish and many other of our QBs, but it's not a recipe for consistent success.

Stidham, TJ, and a few other pro style QBs were dead in the water from the beginning. Their only method to try to deal with the lack of blocking is to get rid of the ball quicker. That's a difficult task in College with youth and limited time together with receivers and hot read type offenses.

Nix and other mobile QBs fared better, but still not enough blocking even for zone reads to work. The lack of deep throws is proportional. If you can't protect long enough to hit quick throws, how are you possibly going to be able to hold it long enough for long throws? Then defenses, knowing that you aren't going to have time to throw it deep, move their DBs up to press coverage making the short, quick throws very difficult. 

And the same goes with running backs. We've rolled out a bunch of great backs that didn't do well. Yes a good back, like Tank or Hunter, can make people miss, they can put on a burst of speed that can get them around a corner, and they can run through arm tackles. But they can't run through the entire defense. If they get the ball and there are 3 defenders right there at the hand off point, it's game over.

You just can't make a successful offense without an above average line. Yes if you have a hole at a position or possibly even two positions, you can scheme around it and/or great players can make one or two guys miss. But a complete breakdown across the board is not workable. 

This was always Gus's problem. Even in his good years, he teetered on not having a good line. But in those years, with just a little bit better line, his tricky simple scheme operated by someone like Cam or Nick and it worked. Why he NEVER emphasized any line recruiting is beyond me and as defenses learned how to get around his tricky scheme and his OL's got worse, it finally got him.

[aubaseball 2,585]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

I see you conveniently omitted Nick Marshall. Did you forget about him or simply want to make Gus look worse than he really was? As far as Campbell goes, he was a 5* recruit and had the luxury of redshirting for a year. I don't think there was ever a time when he wasn't considered a top talent. Don't you remember when he was going through his redshirt year the players were calling him "The future"? J. Campbell becoming a first round QB pick was no surprise to anybody.

Completely not true as far as the future. The dude lost his starting status sophomore year.   2003 was a disaster of a year and Big Al came in and completely turned him into an NFL quarterback.    Before his senior season, he would be lucky to get drafted.   That’s not even up for debate.   To think otherwise is not being honest.   
I will say that I thought NM improved greatly from his junior to senior year.  That I agree with.  

[icanthearyou 4,462]

I know it wasn't Zeke Pike.

Winning the recruiting battle for Zeke Pike and, telling Lamar Jackson he just isn't a QB was NOT AUsome.

The first wheel to fall off the Gus Bus.

[cole256 17,039]

QB's under Gus success usually depended on if the hb could get around 4 yards a pop. 

[bigbird 60,368]

3 hours ago, Mikey said:

I see you conveniently omitted Nick Marshall. Did you forget about him or simply want to make Gus look worse than he really was? 

Yep, I sure did forget him. I forgot Pike as well.  What does that prove? 

It was unintentional but even if it weren't you think 1 out of 14 diminishes Gus' pitiful QB evaluation or development?  Priceless 

Also, FTR none of your deflection has anything to do with what is being discussed in this thread.  

 

And saying JC didn't developed is flat out stupid...not ignorant, just really dumb.  Your dishonesty always amazes.

[Hank2020 3,195]

4 hours ago, Mikey said:

I see you conveniently omitted Nick Marshall. Did you forget about him or simply want to make Gus look worse than he really was? As far as Campbell goes, he was a 5* recruit and had the luxury of redshirting for a year. I don't think there was ever a time when he wasn't considered a top talent. Don't you remember when he was going through his redshirt year the players were calling him "The future"? J. Campbell becoming a first round QB pick was no surprise to anybody.

He sure made a big jump in his senior year, though. I think thats why most gave a lot if credit to his OC that year. Threw more too I believe.

[AUght2win 6,818]

On 11/10/2022 at 8:30 PM, AURex said:

Developed? I'd say Jason Campbell. But as far as making something out of nothing -- Chris Todd. Nobody -- and I mean NOBODY -- expected him to improve that much.

 

Marshall was the most something out of nothing ever. Guy was a cornerback. 

[cole256 17,039]

Statistically Marshall didn't make any tremendous jumps or strides. He had around the same completion percentage, around the same QB rating. As a senior he had more attempts so more yards and etc. 

Of course he had a much better td to int ratio but even in juco he had around the same completion percentage. Unfortunately back then you didn't have people with a mindset to let a guy have a shot at QB

[ScotsAU 1,311]

Sean White and Nick Marshall were the last two that improved. The offense wasn’t as incredible in 2014, but Marshall was a better passer that year. Didn’t he put up like 400 yards passing in the iron bowl that year?

[NES 124]

Would have been Bo nix under Harsin if he stayed and had a better offensive line. Bo was improving. But I vote Brandon Cox

[IronMan70 3,277]

The question is the "last" QB to develop at Auburn. My choice would be Nick Marshall who was better year over year in passing (yds+556, TDs+6, pass%+1.34) in addition to his rushing ability. More importantly he was a better leader his Senior season. I really do miss watching Nick run the offense for Auburn.

Edited November 13, 2022 by IronMan70

[cptau 169]

On 11/10/2022 at 8:48 PM, cbo said:

Todd was pretty good. Hell, I'd kill for him now. Hard for me to say he improved at AU. 

Todd came to Auburn with a bad shoulder I think.  He did as well as anyone in that 2008 season.  After surgery in 2009 he was better and I remember him being a good long ball thrower too. 

[cbo 7,802]

13 hours ago, gabo4au said:

 

There fixed it. Our QBs have sucked for a long time due to our terrible line play for a long time. As has been noted by several others. No QB can perform if they are running for their life every play. The better QBs we've had, were in times when we had at least adequate OL play. 

Yes, a QB can also make the line look better. They can get rid of the ball quickly, but for a pro style passing system that's not very effective in College due to the limited amount of time, youth of the players etc. You see long tenured Pros do that more effectively, like Tom Brady, because they read defenses so well and have so many hot routes that are perfected between receivers and QBs. That's difficult to do in College.

Then there are the slippery, scrambling QBs that can extend plays. Those are more prevalent in College, we've had some good ones, but that is effective when you have at least an average line such that you don't have a full and quick breakdown of multiple rushers coming through quickly. We've had that with Cam, Nick, Jason, etc. But in the last 4-5 years the line has been so bad, those QBs can't get any consistency.

Then you have schemes that can help, Gus's scheme was based on this, the "zone read" plays where a good ball handling QB like Nick Marshall or Cam can make a few guys miss. But again, this isn't effective if the entire defensive line is coming through. You can't read and juke everyone, only a couple of guys at the most. Sure there are plays where it happens, times when Nix made the entire defense look foolish and many other of our QBs, but it's not a recipe for consistent success.

Stidham, TJ, and a few other pro style QBs were dead in the water from the beginning. Their only method to try to deal with the lack of blocking is to get rid of the ball quicker. That's a difficult task in College with youth and limited time together with receivers and hot read type offenses.

Nix and other mobile QBs fared better, but still not enough blocking even for zone reads to work. The lack of deep throws is proportional. If you can't protect long enough to hit quick throws, how are you possibly going to be able to hold it long enough for long throws? Then defenses, knowing that you aren't going to have time to throw it deep, move their DBs up to press coverage making the short, quick throws very difficult. 

And the same goes with running backs. We've rolled out a bunch of great backs that didn't do well. Yes a good back, like Tank or Hunter, can make people miss, they can put on a burst of speed that can get them around a corner, and they can run through arm tackles. But they can't run through the entire defense. If they get the ball and there are 3 defenders right there at the hand off point, it's game over.

You just can't make a successful offense without an above average line. Yes if you have a hole at a position or possibly even two positions, you can scheme around it and/or great players can make one or two guys miss. But a complete breakdown across the board is not workable. 

This was always Gus's problem. Even in his good years, he teetered on not having a good line. But in those years, with just a little bit better line, his tricky simple scheme operated by someone like Cam or Nick and it worked. Why he NEVER emphasized any line recruiting is beyond me and as defenses learned how to get around his tricky scheme and his OL's got worse, it finally got him.

Honestly don't know why you and others keep telling me about the OL and "fixing it" for me. I said in the OP that the OL has been discussed plenty and deservedly so. I called it a mess that will take some time to fix. 

That's kind of my point about the QB. It may take a while to fill 5 OL spots and get them working as a cohesive whole. It takes only one guy to fix the QB position and cover up some deficiencies. 

We all know QB play and OL play go hand in hand. What I'm saying is 2 things can be true at the same time. 

Take a look at the QB's that @bigbirdconveniently listed for us. Do you honestly think most of those QB's would have thrived under a better OL? 

[AU-24 3,063]

18 hours ago, Mikey said:

I see you conveniently omitted Nick Marshall. Did you forget about him or simply want to make Gus look worse than he really was? As far as Campbell goes, he was a 5* recruit and had the luxury of redshirting for a year. I don't think there was ever a time when he wasn't considered a top talent. Don't you remember when he was going through his redshirt year the players were calling him "The future"? J. Campbell becoming a first round QB pick was no surprise to anybody.

You’re going to have to cut him some slack. He’s probably just venting because UCF won again today, over another ranked team, propelling Gus out of the top 25 and into the top 20 and you know how upset that makes him.

[AU-24 3,063]

9 hours ago, IronMan70 said:

The question is the "last" QB to develop at Auburn. That would be Nick Marshall who was better year over year in passing (yds+556, TDs+6, pass%+1.34) in addition to his rushing ability. More importantly he was a better leader his Senior season. I really do miss watching Nick run the offense for Auburn.

Yes, some of my favorite times as a Auburn fan was watching Cam and Nick Marshall run the O before the crying Sabin rule change.

[gabo4au 227]

7 hours ago, cbo said:

Honestly don't know why you and others keep telling me about the OL and "fixing it" for me. I said in the OP that the OL has been discussed plenty and deservedly so. I called it a mess that will take some time to fix. 

That's kind of my point about the QB. It may take a while to fill 5 OL spots and get them working as a cohesive whole. It takes only one guy to fix the QB position and cover up some deficiencies. 

We all know QB play and OL play go hand in hand. What I'm saying is 2 things can be true at the same time. 

Take a look at the QB's that @bigbirdconveniently listed for us. Do you honestly think most of those QB's would have thrived under a better OL? 

 

Actually I do think most of them would have thrived under a better OL. Just look at Nix as a great example. 

[Mikey 16,550]

19 hours ago, bigbird said:

Yep, I sure did forget him. I forgot Pike as well.  What does that prove? 

It was unintentional but even if it weren't you think 1 out of 14 diminishes Gus' pitiful QB evaluation or development?  Priceless 

Also, FTR none of your deflection has anything to do with what is being discussed in this thread.  

 

And saying JC didn't developed is flat out stupid...not ignorant, just really dumb.  Your dishonesty always amazes.

What's being discussed in this thread is QB development. My posts were spot-on.

Unintentional? That's quite a coincidence. You just happened to forget a guy who went from DB to borderline QB in JUCO to one of the more successful QB's in AU history? Your dishonesty amazes me.

I didn't say Campbell didn't develop. I said he was a high quality prospect from the day he signed with AU. Of course he got batter, as would be expected from every college player regardless of position.