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Harvard coffee shops closes in response to unreasonable union demands


SLAG-91

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https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2022/11/3/darwins-closure-protest/

The demands:

$24/hour before tips

Three weeks PTO

Zero-deductible, low cost insurance

 

Negotiations have been going on since last September...methinks the employees have an over-inflated sense of their value, and have zero clue about what it takes to operate a business.

Here's the ironic part: These nascent socialists claim to be "anti-big business, death to big corporations, strike a blow for the little guy, etc.", yet make demands that hurt a small business and eventually push said demands until the owners decide to close up shop. 

What's most likely going to take that small company's place? A soulless big box business, perhaps? Time will tell.

I think the union failed to take into account that the owners have the right to, you know, say "no."

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Yep - entitlement, “first world problems”, and a constant sense of being offended - all symptoms of the same problem….

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Why is it always only a problem when workers demand more and better? 

Whenever a business underpays, offers no benefits, overworks, or mistreats it's employees, all conservatives ever say is "Well, that's the business owners right. If workers don't like it then they can go find somewhere else to work. Let the free market decide if that business is fit to operate or not" 

 

Then if the workers actually do leave and the business has trouble staffing then those same conservatives complain how "people are lazy and don't want to work and just want to make it hard on businesses to operate. We need to cut public benefits and force people go back to these underpaying jobs. At least under slavery the owners got to operate their business and the slaves got to eat and survive. Now THAT was a win-win situation for everybody"

 

Yet whenever employees want to form a union or bargain as a united front to get more pay and benefits the narrative suddenly becomes one of anger.

"Why are they trying to unionize? They should just go find a job that they like better. No need to force their business to pay EVERYONE more when its only them who don't like their pay. The business has rights too!. I hope the business closes down and forces all those employees into poverty to punish them for their greed! That'll teach employees not to form unions in the future. Why are unions even legal!?? "

 

 

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1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Why is it always only a problem when workers demand more and better? 

Whenever a business underpays, offers no benefits, overworks, or mistreats it's employees, all conservatives ever say is "Well, that's the business owners right. If workers don't like it then they can go find somewhere else to work. Let the free market decide if that business is fit to operate or not" 

 

Then if the workers actually do leave and the business has trouble staffing then those same conservatives complain how "people are lazy and don't want to work and just want to make it hard on businesses to operate. We need to cut public benefits and force people go back to these underpaying jobs. At least under slavery the owners got to operate their business and the slaves got to eat and survive. Now THAT was a win-win situation for everybody"

 

Yet whenever employees want to form a union or bargain as a united front to get more pay and benefits the narrative suddenly becomes one of anger.

"Why are they trying to unionize? They should just go find a job that they like better. No need to force their business to pay EVERYONE more when its only them who don't like their pay. The business has rights too!. I hope the business closes down and forces all those employees into poverty to punish them for their greed! That'll teach employees not to form unions in the future. Why are unions even legal!?? "

 

 

Do you enjoy these conversations you have in your head?

Interestingly enough Chuck Schumer has cut the legs out from under these workers that are asking for $24/hr.

Speaking to the press outside the U.S. Capitol grounds, Schumer declared, "Now more than ever, we’re short of workers, we have a population that is not reproducing on its own with the same level that it used to."

He added, "The only way we’re going to have a great future in America is if we welcome and embrace immigrants, the DREAMers and – all of them. Cause our ultimate goal is to help the DREAMers but get a path to citizenship for all 11 million, or however many undocumented immigrants."

https://www.foxnews.com/media/schumer-dragged-after-pushing-citizenship-illegal-immigrants-us-birth-rate-drops

If, in fact, we have a shortage of workers, why would any company increase employee costs if replacement workers are already coming into the country in droves?  Supply and demand.

 

Edited by I_M4_AU
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4 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Do you enjoy these conversations you have in your head?

Interestingly enough Chuck Schumer has cut the legs out from under these workers that are asking for $24/hr.

Speaking to the press outside the U.S. Capitol grounds, Schumer declared, "Now more than ever, we’re short of workers, we have a population that is not reproducing on its own with the same level that it used to."

He added, "The only way we’re going to have a great future in America is if we welcome and embrace immigrants, the DREAMers and – all of them. Cause our ultimate goal is to help the DREAMers but get a path to citizenship for all 11 million, or however many undocumented immigrants."

https://www.foxnews.com/media/schumer-dragged-after-pushing-citizenship-illegal-immigrants-us-birth-rate-drops

 

He's right. Simple demographics say that the US isn't having enough babies to support the eventual large elderly, non-working population. That's what Republicans don't seem to understand. In their quest to keep America a White country for whites only, they will only lead to its economic destruction. 

 

4 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

If, in fact, we have a shortage of workers, why would any company increase employee costs if replacement workers are already coming into the country is droves?  Supply and demand.

 

 

Companies ARE increasing base wages and we ARE having a worker shortage though even with immigration.....

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51 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

He's right. Simple demographics say that the US isn't having enough babies to support the eventual large elderly, non-working population. That's what Republicans don't seem to understand. In their quest to keep America a White country for whites only, they will only lead to its economic destruction. 

 

 

Companies ARE increasing base wages and we ARE having a worker shortage though even with immigration.....

Your first paragraph is so ironic.  The left is all about women that want to control their bodies and the push to have less babies and yet push replacement population of illegal aliens.  It’s almost like it has been planned.  And somehow you equate all of this to keeping America a white country.  I will remind you that most of the babies being aborted are POC.

Its almost like you don’t like white people.

We will she how this works out.

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2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Your first paragraph is so ironic.  The left is all about women that want to control their bodies and the push to have less babies and yet push replacement population of illegal aliens.  It’s almost like it has been planned.  And somehow you equate all of this to keeping America a white country.  I will remind you that most of the babies being aborted are POC.

Its almost like you don’t like white people.

We will she how this works out.

 

Ah, so you're a fan of Tucker Carlson's "Replacement invasion" narrative I see. 

Unfortunate but not surprising. 

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3 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

Ah, so you're a fan of Tucker Carlson's "Replacement invasion" narrative I see. 

Unfortunate but not surprising. 

I haven’t been, but with what Chuck Schumer just stated I’m starting to wonder.  Trying to force this in a lame duck session is impressive.

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you forget all the good unions do and have done for this country. we were making children work 12 hour days in horrible conditions. predatory corps working the crap out of workers and not paying a wage most people could live on. the thing is which you on the right refuse to admit is greed is killing this country. the rich are collecting all the worlds wealth at an alarming rate and yet a fair wage is socialism? or whatever excuse of the day you guys come up with.

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3 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Why is it always only a problem when workers demand more and better? 

 

Let me ask you this:  Do you think their demands were/are reasonable demands?  Negotiations are a two-way street, and both sides have to be willing to give up something.  How much good faith negotiating there was, we don't know.

From my viewpoint, they got out over their skis with their demands, particularly the insurance...I doubt they have any idea how exorbitantly expensive no-deductible insurance is (from some quick searching, about $600/month, give or take), and to expect their end of the premiums to be low in addition to that?  Not realistic.  I'd bet these are young employees, by and large, and no-deductible insurance doesn't make sense for people with low medical expenditures.

To meet those cost requirements to insure employees, that coffee would have to get incredibly expensive.  Small business owners operate on pretty tight margins...they're not Wal-Mart, definitionally.

The owners decided that it wasn't worth it to them.

There's wanting more and better, and then there's wanting the sun and moon.

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42 minutes ago, SLAG-91 said:

Let me ask you this:  Do you think their demands were/are reasonable demands?  Negotiations are a two-way street, and both sides have to be willing to give up something.  How much good faith negotiating there was, we don't know.

From my viewpoint, they got out over their skis with their demands, particularly the insurance...I doubt they have any idea how exorbitantly expensive no-deductible insurance is (from some quick searching, about $600/month, give or take), and to expect their end of the premiums to be low in addition to that?  Not realistic.  I'd bet these are young employees, by and large, and no-deductible insurance doesn't make sense for people with low medical expenditures.

To meet those cost requirements to insure employees, that coffee would have to get incredibly expensive.  Small business owners operate on pretty tight margins...they're not Wal-Mart, definitionally.

The owners decided that it wasn't worth it to them.

There's wanting more and better, and then there's wanting the sun and moon.

You always open a negotiation with a higher price point as the first price you put out will be the highest that will be discussed. So if you open with what you want and they were willing to pay more, you miss out on what they were willing to pay. Also they could be savvy negotiators and talk you down some even when they were willing to pay more.

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Love the stories that appeal to this sort of mentality.  This is just like the BYU "racism" story.

These aren't information stories.  These are distort reality and, manipulate the idiots stories.   

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I’m all for unions…..grew up in a machinists union household. However there are times where demands outpace reality. $24 an hr at a coffee shop? The most I made saving lives was $14 an hr back in 2002. There has to be some balance or there won’t be jobs left. Maybe that’s the real mission? Idk 🤷 

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13 hours ago, autigeremt said:

I’m all for unions…..grew up in a machinists union household. However there are times where demands outpace reality. $24 an hr at a coffee shop? The most I made saving lives was $14 an hr back in 2002. There has to be some balance or there won’t be jobs left. Maybe that’s the real mission? Idk 🤷 

I can't understand life outside of Alabama either. 

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On 11/21/2022 at 12:48 PM, aubiefifty said:

you forget all the good unions do and have done for this country. we were making children work 12 hour days in horrible conditions. predatory corps working the crap out of workers and not paying a wage most people could live on. the thing is which you on the right refuse to admit is greed is killing this country. the rich are collecting all the worlds wealth at an alarming rate and yet a fair wage is socialism? or whatever excuse of the day you guys come up with.

There was certainly a time and place that unions were needed.  However that time has passed.  Laws, corporate responsibility and a competitive labor market have addressed this.  
 

Now, unions have no benefit whatsoever.  They are like a parasite to a company artificially inflating costs, protecting underperforming workers, holding people back that deserve advancement based on merit in place of seniority, taking dues from peoples checks (in many cases whether they want to join or not).   

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On 11/21/2022 at 9:08 AM, CoffeeTiger said:

Why is it always only a problem when workers demand more and better? 

Whenever a business underpays, offers no benefits, overworks, or mistreats it's employees, all conservatives ever say is "Well, that's the business owners right. If workers don't like it then they can go find somewhere else to work. Let the free market decide if that business is fit to operate or not" 

 

Then if the workers actually do leave and the business has trouble staffing then those same conservatives complain how "people are lazy and don't want to work and just want to make it hard on businesses to operate. We need to cut public benefits and force people go back to these underpaying jobs. At least under slavery the owners got to operate their business and the slaves got to eat and survive. Now THAT was a win-win situation for everybody"

 

Yet whenever employees want to form a union or bargain as a united front to get more pay and benefits the narrative suddenly becomes one of anger.

"Why are they trying to unionize? They should just go find a job that they like better. No need to force their business to pay EVERYONE more when its only them who don't like their pay. The business has rights too!. I hope the business closes down and forces all those employees into poverty to punish them for their greed! That'll teach employees not to form unions in the future. Why are unions even legal!?? "

 

 

I’m guessing a coffee shop closing also hits close to home, CoffeeTiger. 😉

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I’m guessing $24 could well be a living wage there. The question for a small business is what do I have to charge for my products to meet that wage and very expensive health insurance demand? Can I make it work? Wouldn’t surprise me if the answer is “not likely” or “definitely not.” Universal healthcare would free up a lot of entrepreneurial possibilities in this country. There are excellent reasons for pro-business folks to support it.

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