Classified Documents found in Biden's garage Biden says "my Corvette's in a locked garage, OK?"

[jj3jordan 2,050]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

Actually, the first is a crime if it is done knowingly and with intent.  Finding you had such documents in your position if you didn't know you had them and had no intent to possess them, then no crime.  This is easy to claim if - for example -  a staffer boxed them up without your knowing about it. 

The second is a altogether different crime - obstruction of Justice.

My understanding -based on various interviews I have seen - is that regarding Trump, the DOJ is focusing on the obstruction issue, not the simple fact that classified documents were in his possession.  That makes sense considering Trump's efforts to ignore the subpoena and claims he had a legal right to them.

Obstruction is not ignoring their demand. That might be an inconvenience but not a crime since they did ultimately obtain whatever documents they wanted. And Trump can declassify documents and claim a right to possess them. Biden cannot.

Obstruction is deleting subpoenaed emails, bleach bit programming the servers and hard drive, and hammering the mobile devices so no data could be retrieved. That’s obstruction.

[jj3jordan 2,050]

2 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

ok goau and jj? in the seventies i took copies of top secret docs from our communications outfit directly to our crisis center without having to sign anything. and i would sometimes get more copies of documents than i needed so we had a special bin we discarded them in so they could be destroyed. but unless my memory is playing tricks when someone received top secret intelligence did they not have to sign for it? and it is weird some top secret stuff had to be signed for and some did not and i cannot remember why. that was a fun job as we were involved in just about anything that went on around the world. the bad part was i worked directly for the chief of naval operations so we had to be in our dress uni's and spit shinned. no civilian clothes were allowed on duty. and to this day as another aside i have never seen so many drop dead gorgeous women in one place in my life.

You may have been inside a secure area the entire time. Anytime I viewed TS, S, or SCI material I was in the SCIF.  We didn’t take anything outside. This was USAFE headquarters not the Pentagon.  Sounds like they trusted you. They don’t let just anybody do that type of courier duty.

[DKW 86 7,419]

7 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

you and i have been in the military. i was awarded a top secret security clearance while stationed at the pentagon. i like biden but if you or i had done that we would probably be busting up rocks at some military prison. maybe they give some leeway to presidents. the difference between biden and trump is trunp was told to bring back docs and he did not in fact send them all back.

But, the first step was wrong both times. Biden and trump are obviously completely incompetent. That is a truth. There is no way to explain away having classified docs with you after you leave office.

[alexava 6,973]

The classified documents are just an attempt to make Hunter’s laptop go away. That’s the Biden takedown, the fbi, the media. I still think the swamp is playing chess with the discovery of the classified documents.

[TexasTiger 12,829]

On 1/14/2023 at 10:18 AM, GoAU said:

I believe the same standard for mishandling of classified documents that is applied to our service members should be applied to the ruling class.  It’s apparent that they have a real problem thinking rules apply to them.  
 

Hillary, IMO, was the worst.  Took obviously deliberate steps to circumvent processes to control documents.   It’s hard to claim ignorance when you set up servers.  

Trump and Biden, with current info, are kind of in the same boat and a lot rides on what the various documents were.  Trump (from the sounds of it) was clearly in an intentional situation as well - refusing to turn over documents.  Biden in a lot of ways is even worse.  I’m not sure if his claim of not knowing about 3 different stashes of classified documents is better or worse than people who are at least deliberate.  I mean losing any is bad, but having multiple stashes that you claim you “forgot” about for the better half of a decade??  First, I don’t believe his story at all, but even if you did - WTH??  
 

I am still consistent with what I said when Mar A Lago was raided - if he broke the law, and the documents were in any way an issue of national security he should be prosecuted.  I feel the same about Biden. 
 

just curious about how those on the left that were pushing for Trumps prosecution feel about Biden’s situation?  

From a prosecutorial standpoint, your conclusions are weak. Somehow you managed to get to “Biden was worse.” This is the only way today’s right wingers ever admit wrong doing by Trump— only if they say a Democrat was worse.

Investigate them both. Determine the facts. Treat them both like you’d treat a non-President. Every credible person familiar with the relevant laws say Trump is in a far worse situation.  

[AUFAN78 3,894]

3 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

From a prosecutorial standpoint, your conclusions are weak. Somehow you managed to get to “Biden was worse.” This is the only way today’s right wingers ever admit wrong doing by Trump— only if they say a Democrat was worse.

Investigate them both. Determine the facts. Treat them both like you’d treat a non-President. Every credible person familiar with the relevant laws say Trump is in a far worse situation.  

Trump was a rookie politician, Biden is a lifer. Those are just facts. You decide who is worse.

BTW, I'd still vote Hillary as far worse and no way in hell she was incompetent. The woman should be in Leavenworth.

[TexasTiger 12,829]

1 hour ago, AUFAN78 said:

Trump was a rookie politician, Biden is a lifer. Those are just facts. You decide who is worse.

BTW, I'd still vote Hillary as far worse and no way in hell she was incompetent. The woman should be in Leavenworth.

I have zero problem making a rational distinction.

[AUFAN78 3,894]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

I have zero problem making a rational distinction.

Good. Then you agree it's Hillary by a mile.

[GoAU 1,600]

7 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

From a prosecutorial standpoint, your conclusions are weak. Somehow you managed to get to “Biden was worse.” This is the only way today’s right wingers ever admit wrong doing by Trump— only if they say a Democrat was worse.

Investigate them both. Determine the facts. Treat them both like you’d treat a non-President. Every credible person familiar with the relevant laws say Trump is in a far worse situation.  

Clearly you didn’t read that post, or any other I’ve made on this subject objectively.  

[TexasTiger 12,829]

5 minutes ago, GoAU said:

Clearly you didn’t read that post, or any other I’ve made on this subject objectively.  

Read it clearly and fairly. You’re fair and balanced.

[TexasTiger 12,829]

27 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

Good. Then you agree it's Hillary by a mile.

Only psychos think that.

[AUFAN78 3,894]

23 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Only psychos think that.

  Vlad Jr. 

[DKW 86 7,419]

Seriously, the only thing that matters in all this is: Possession.

Do/Did you or do/did you not have in your possession Classified Materials outside of a secured area?

All the rest of the who, what, when, how, and level of cooperation are third tier level questions, as interesting as they may be. If you are in possession of Classified Material outside of a secured area, you should get a one way ticket to Leavenworth. PERIOD. That is what any Enlisted or even Junior Officers would get in the military. If it is good enough for Americas Best and Brightest, it's good enough for the clowns in DC.

Edited January 20, 2023 by DKW 86

[TexasTiger 12,829]

15 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Seriously, the only thing that matters in all this is: Possession.

Do/Did you or do/did you not have in your possession Classified Materials outside of a secured area?

All the rest of the who, what, when, how, and level of cooperation are third tier level questions, as interesting as they may be. If you are in possession of Classified Material outside of a secured area, you should get a one way ticket to Leavenworth. PERIOD. That is what any Enlisted or even Junior Officers would get in the military. If it is good enough for Americas Best and Brightest, it's good enough for the clowns in DC.

Once again, you have no idea what you’re talking about.

[DKW 86 7,419]

1 minute ago, TexasTiger said:

Once again, you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Au contraire mon frere, I know far more than most. This is one area where the UCMJ should be the rule for everyone.

[TexasTiger 12,829]

5 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Au contraire mon frere, I know far more than most. This is one area where the UCMJ should be the rule for everyone.

Fine. 

[TexasTiger 12,829]

27 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Au contraire mon frere, I know far more than most. This is one area where the UCMJ should be the rule for everyone.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/19/politics/classified-documents-spillage/index.html

[DKW 86 7,419]

7 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/19/politics/classified-documents-spillage/index.html

And here it comes..."Well my guys cant be held accountable because everybody in Washington DC is incompetent." 

Sometimes Tex, we get so far in the weeds we parody ourselves. You just went there.

You might as well just say "It's totally alright...UNLESS MY POLITICAL OPPONENTS DO IT, THEN IT IS INTOLERABLE."

Edited January 20, 2023 by DKW 86

[CoffeeTiger 5,099]

3 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

And here it comes..."Well my guys cant be held accountable because everybody in Washington DC is incompetent." 

Sometimes Tex, we get so far in the weeds we parody ourselves. You just went there.

You might as well just say "It's totally alright...UNLESS MY POLITICAL OPPONENTS DO IT, THEN IT IS INTOLERABLE."

Tex's link had nothing to do with defending Biden, it was an analysis about how common classified documents being handled improperly or being improperly stored really is in the federal government. That's something that happens all the time and that criminal charges typically only come into play when you're talking about intent or obstruction. 

 

For Trump or Biden, just having the classified documents in their private homes isn't enough to charge anyone with any crimes, but any possible charges or punishment will likely come down to who knew the documents were classified,  were classified documents intentionally taken and kept as opposed to carelessly/ unintentionally bundled in with other documents put into storage, and were efforts of the government to recover the documents obstructed in any way. 

 

 

[homersapien 11,362]

13 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Seriously, the only thing that matters in all this is: Possession.

Do/Did you or do/did you not have in your possession Classified Materials outside of a secured area?

All the rest of the who, what, when, how, and level of cooperation are third tier level questions, as interesting as they may be. If you are in possession of Classified Material outside of a secured area, you should get a one way ticket to Leavenworth. PERIOD. That is what any Enlisted or even Junior Officers would get in the military. If it is good enough for Americas Best and Brightest, it's good enough for the clowns in DC.

Seriously,  Wrong 

In these presidential cases at issue, knowledge and intent are equally important regarding criminal liability.

People have returned classified documents they didn't know they had on a regular basis without suffering criminal consequences.  Sometime after years have passed.

 

https://casetext.com/statute/united-states-code/title-18-crimes-and-criminal-procedure/part-i-crimes/chapter-37-espionage-and-censorship/section-798-disclosure-of-classified-information

https://casetext.com/statute/united-states-code/title-18-crimes-and-criminal-procedure/part-i-crimes/chapter-37-espionage-and-censorship/section-793-gathering-transmitting-or-losing-defense-information

 

 

[homersapien 11,362]

5 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

And here it comes..."Well my guys cant be held accountable because everybody in Washington DC is incompetent." 

Sometimes Tex, we get so far in the weeds we parody ourselves. You just went there.

You might as well just say "It's totally alright...UNLESS MY POLITICAL OPPONENTS DO IT, THEN IT IS INTOLERABLE."

Common David, that's just stupid and petty. 

TT was simply relaying facts.  He wasn't trying to defend anyone or taking a partisan position.

If anything, you are parodying your iconic self.

 

[homersapien 11,362]

2 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Tex's link had nothing to do with defending Biden, it was an analysis about how common classified documents being handled improperly or being improperly stored really is in the federal government. That's something that happens all the time and that criminal charges typically only come into play when you're talking about intent or obstruction. 

 

For Trump or Biden, just having the classified documents in their private homes isn't enough to charge anyone with any crimes, but any possible charges or punishment will likely come down to who knew the documents were classified,  were classified documents intentionally taken and kept as opposed to carelessly/ unintentionally bundled in with other documents put into storage, and were efforts of the government to recover the documents obstructed in any way. 

 

 

That's right IM4, face slap a simple statement of fact. 

There is not a single statement in Coffee's post that is not true.  If you think differently, point it out.

You exist in your own, fact-free MAGA world.

[I_M4_AU 7,792]

37 minutes ago, homersapien said:

That's right IM4, face slap a simple statement of fact. 

There is not a single statement in Coffee's post that is not true.  If you think differently, point it out.

You exist in your own, fact-free MAGA world.

It is just too obvious; the fact that the media is showing examples of how often mistakes are made is making excuses for Biden.  It’s Biden’s *just the bumbling old fool* routine as an excuse for taking the docs.

I ran across this:

WASHINGTON — The decision by President Biden and his top advisers to keep the discovery of classified documents secret from the public and even most of the White House staff for 68 days was driven by what turned out to be a futile hope that the incident could be quietly disposed of without broader implications for Mr. Biden or his presidency.

The handful of advisers who were aware of the initial discovery on Nov. 2 — six days before the midterm elections — gambled that without going public, they could convince the Justice Department that the matter was little more than a minor, good-faith mistake, unlike former President Donald J. Trump’s hoarding of documents at his Florida estate.

In fact, the Biden strategy was profoundly influenced by the Trump case, in which the former president refused to turn over all the classified documents he had taken, even after being subpoenaed. The goal for the Biden team, according to people familiar with the internal deliberations who spoke on condition of anonymity, was to win the trust of Justice Department investigators and demonstrate that the president and his team were cooperating fully. In other words, they would head off any serious legal repercussions by doing exactly the opposite of what the Biden lawyers had seen the Trump legal team do.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/20/us/politics/biden-classified-documents.html

You know this is from *All the news fit to print* source you like.

I am so glad we have a President that is so transparent to the American public.  The adults are back in charge.

I particularly like the part where it says *the Biden strategy was profoundly influenced by the Trump case*.

Honest question; which is worse; publicly telling the Archives they have a dispute or attempting a cover up?  Which is more transparent.

And you voted for this idiot in the general election.  It doesn’t matter who you voted for in the primaries.

[CoffeeTiger 5,099]

6 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

It is just too obvious; the fact that the media is showing examples of how often mistakes are made is making excuses for Biden.  It’s Biden’s *just the bumbling old fool* routine as an excuse for taking the docs.

 

So was the CNN wrong in it's analysis and reporting or was it not? 

 

And nothing in the article made an excuse for Biden. It doesn't say Biden is innocent of anything and it makes no conclusions about Biden nor Trumps investigation. 

 

 

 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,792]

Just now, CoffeeTiger said:

So was the CNN wrong in it's analysis and reporting or was it not? 

 

And nothing in the article made an excuse for Biden. It doesn't say Biden is innocent of anything and it makes no conclusions about Biden nor Trumps investigation. 

 

 

 

 

I have sited many articles about Trump and have always been accused of *defending* Trump. I now know what an article looks like that doesn’t come out and say he was guilty, but implies there is *nothing to see here*.

The article you quoted was one of those.