bigsixfive 327 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 I need some assistance with a heat pump... preferably quick because its cold tonight. I just turned on the heater for the first time this year, and I'm in a house with a heat pump. I've never had one before. I know fundamentally how they work, but I need some assistance on practical operation. Basically, I turn it on, the air temp is 64 and I set it to 68. It runs for a while, blowing ice cold air. The temp dropped to 62. Finally, I smell the burning smell typically present at the first operation, and the exhaust feels somewhat warm. Its not real warm, but somewhat. It runs like that a while, but then I notice the exhaust air is ice cold again. I got up and played with the setting to try and kick the fan off. I bottomed it out around 50 and it still stayed on, blowing ice cold air. I turned it up to 80, and the air got a little warm again. So, I set it back on 68 and waited. Again, the air turned ice cold after a few minutes, but the fan never cut off. It warmed up to 65 according to the thermostat, but the cold air it was blowing cooled it back off to 62ish. I manually cut the whole unit off to cut the fan off. Any ideas as to 1) why its blowing freezing air and 2) why the fan isn't kicking off (and yes, its on auto mode). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermike 3,007 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Get out the sweat shirts & pants!! Sorry I can't be more help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottomfeeder 244 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Call an Air-Conditioning tech. It could be anything from a bad controller to dirt coils. The thermostat seems to be working. There is a valve in there that goes bad on the freon lines the near the compressor inside the exterior unit (it controls the flow of compressed gas). Also, the heat pump has electric strips to assist the heat pump cycle, that is what you smell when the cycle begins. My solution is to replace the heat pump with conventional A/C compressor for cooling and electric heat strips for heat. Keep it simple. I don't care for heat pump systems, they're too expensive and too many things causes problems. If you're really deadset on doing it yourself then here is a forum for that system. http://forum.doityourself.com/forumdisplay.php?f=125 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otterinbham 0 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Heat pumps just don't work very well. Electric-based systems can't heat air to nearly the temperature of gas or propane. I know that's no help. But if you have the scratch, you might want to consider switching. Because you'll never be warm again during winter otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottomfeeder 244 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Heat pumps just don't work very well. Electric-based systems can't heat air to nearly the temperature of gas or propane. I know that's no help. But if you have the scratch, you might want to consider switching. Because you'll never be warm again during winter otherwise. The only problem I have with gas or propane is future costs. Electrical heat strips do fine, but heat pumps are terrible systems. With the possiblity of having more nukes constructed, I believe electric is in the best interest for all involved. We have electric heating and it works great. Also, photovoltaics are easily integrated with electric heat strips as they are fixed resistance. Some systems involve the use of hot water from the water heater or boiler. I really prefer baseboard heat with a humidifier/de-humidfier in the A/C system and scroll compressor efficiency for cooling. Then there is the geothermal unit which is a topic for another discussion. If using a heat pump go with geothermal. http://www.waterfurnace.com/content.aspx?s...hy&page=why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,469 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Heat pumps just don't work very well. Electric-based systems can't heat air to nearly the temperature of gas or propane. I know that's no help. But if you have the scratch, you might want to consider switching. Because you'll never be warm again during winter otherwise. The only problem I have with gas or propane is future costs. Electrical heat strips do fine, but heat pumps are terrible systems. With the possiblity of having more nukes constructed, I believe electric is in the best interest for all involved. We have electric heating and it works great. Also, photovoltaics are easily integrated with electric heat strips as they are fixed resistance. Some systems involve the use of hot water from the water heater or boiler. I really prefer baseboard heat with a humidifier/de-humidfier in the A/C system and scroll compressor efficiency for cooling. Then there is the geothermal unit which is a topic for another discussion. If using a heat pump go with geothermal. http://www.waterfurnace.com/content.aspx?s...hy&page=why I've had nothing but electric heat pumps on the two houses I've owned so far and neither had any trouble warming the house up. Yours may need servicing. If it's operating like it was built to do, it will perform just fine and cost less than a gas heater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsixfive 327 Posted November 19, 2006 Author Share Posted November 19, 2006 Call an Air-Conditioning tech. It could be anything from a bad controller to dirt coils. The thermostat seems to be working. There is a valve in there that goes bad on the freon lines the near the compressor inside the exterior unit (it controls the flow of compressed gas). Also, the heat pump has electric strips to assist the heat pump cycle, that is what you smell when the cycle begins. My solution is to replace the heat pump with conventional A/C compressor for cooling and electric heat strips for heat. Keep it simple. I don't care for heat pump systems, they're too expensive and too many things causes problems. If you're really deadset on doing it yourself then here is a forum for that system. http://forum.doityourself.com/forumdisplay.php?f=125 I'm actually thinking (hoping, and praying) it might be the thermostat now. After playing with it some more, the air got acceptably warm. That made me feel much better as it indicates the actual unit is working. I had the unit serviced in July, right after we got the house. He said everything looked great, he took a little charge out because it was too full, and told me to clean the coils - which I did. Anyways, started toying with the thermostat around midnight, and its got two mercury switches. One evidently controls the compressor, and the other controls the blower. What appears to be happening is the thermocouple uncoils just enough to trip the compressor switch off, but not enough to trip the blower switch. The result is cold air is blown around, cooling the house back off. I understand the purpose of having two switches, so it evacuates the warm air from the ducts, but they don't seem to be in sync on my system. I would feel much better about getting a tech out here and looking at it, but I am hesitant to. I purchased a home warranty with the house from Mutual Warranty (www.mutualwarranty.com), so I SHOULD be covered. However, when I logged on to file the claim, I was greeted with a message informing me that due to financial difficulties, they will no longer be able to honor any service requests on existing contracts. SUPER! I'm off to Home Depot (go Smoke!) to find a thermostat. Thanks for all the advice. In case this doesn't work, I might be back asking for some brand recommendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinook 0 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 i personaly feel the type of system you need is dependent on the climate, availibilty of oil, gas, electricity etc.... heat pumps in western oregon are the most practical and efficient means of heating and cooling. keep in mind a heat pump doesn't blow hot air like a furnance. it will be cool. in the winter time we set the thermostat at 74 and the air coming out of the vents is cool. the heat pump can only heat the house so much and that is why (in certain climates) you need a back up furnace. we have a electric furnance mainly because electricity is cheap by a long shot compared to gas. when i built my house i have the option to switch to a gas furnance. i use gas to heat the hot water tank, fire the grill and heat the stove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM4AU 329 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 CHeck to see if you have emergency heat on your thermostat. Turn it on if so. Mine seems to heat up faster if I do that then switch it back to regular once it has been running for about 10-15 minutes. My Heat pump is a little slow to heat if it hasn't run for a few days. After running for a day or so I have no problems. I am not a fan of heat pumps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,410 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Kim will tell you I am cold natured. I hate heat pumps. I never feel warm in a heat pump house even when they work fine. I have to wear sweats and pjs all the time, often even big house shoes. If you are used to a gas heat house, you are in for a bad winter. I would never buy a heat pump house again myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsixfive 327 Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 It wasn't the thermostat... To my surprise, it did the same thing after I installed a digital thermostat. I tested it for a while, with the ambient temp at 70. I set the heat to 72, but all it could do was oscillate between 69 and 70. The blower never cut off (ran a good hour) but the compressor cut on and off depending on the temp. When the compressor was on, you'd feel it get nice and warm. When it cut off, the temp dropped fairly quickly as the cold air was blown around. I sucked it up and called Auburn Comfort Systems, and they're coming out Tuesday. Now I'm wondering if its the valve that switches between heat and refrigeration mode, but I would think I'd notice warm air blowing out of the vent when I had the AC on a while back. I've got it on emergency heat right now, and that's working fine. That should keep the house from being in the mid 50's when I wake up. We don't get to enjoy it too much down here, but when I lived in Maine, most had steam heat. It worked pretty well, and a big benefit was nearly instant hot water. The best type of heat were the wood stoves. They had the nice fireplace feel, but were way more efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,410 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 The heat coming from a heat pump will only be slightly above 70. It will normally FEEL cold since you are 96.8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsixfive 327 Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 The heat coming from a heat pump will only be slightly above 70. It will normally FEEL cold since you are 96.8 Right, but it shouldn't be colder than the ambient temperature, especeially this much colder. Last night, the cold air it was blowing cooled the house from 64 to 62 in about 15 minutes. The compressor kicked on and got it up to 65 before it cut off. Then it cooled down to 62 again, due to blowing cold air. (and not to nitpick, but 98.6... and your skin temp is usually between 80-90 ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,410 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 The heat coming from a heat pump will only be slightly above 70. It will normally FEEL cold since you are 96.8 Right, but it shouldn't be colder than the ambient temperature, especeially this much colder. Last night, the cold air it was blowing cooled the house from 64 to 62 in about 15 minutes. The compressor kicked on and got it up to 65 before it cut off. Then it cooled down to 62 again, due to blowing cold air. (and not to nitpick, but 98.6... and your skin temp is usually between 80-90 ) I bow to your better information. I still dont like heat pumps. I end up running the emerg heat all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsixfive 327 Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 I bow to your better information. I still dont like heat pumps. I end up running the emerg heat all the time. Can you do that? I figured the emergency heat wasn't built for prolonged use. I'm running it now and it works fine, so I'm wondering if I should bother with servicing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,410 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I bow to your better information. I still dont like heat pumps. I end up running the emerg heat all the time. Can you do that? I figured the emergency heat wasn't built for prolonged use. I'm running it now and it works fine, so I'm wondering if I should bother with servicing it. We have gas heat at our lovely home... Maybe supplement with gas logs, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottomfeeder 244 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I bow to your better information. I still dont like heat pumps. I end up running the emerg heat all the time. Can you do that? I figured the emergency heat wasn't built for prolonged use. I'm running it now and it works fine, so I'm wondering if I should bother with servicing it. The compressor on a heat pump is slow in warming things up, so they install electric heat strips to assist in the process (emerg. heat). Don't let that tech try to screw you by cutting a couple of wires and putting in a jumper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottomfeeder 244 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 MDM4AU doesn't receive private messages so I will answer, or my best guess, the question on the forum. What is the rule on running the Emerg. Heat for a prolonged period on a heat pump? I don't know that there is one. The forum link I gave earlier in the thread might help you get an answer. Emergency heat is just heat strips added to assist the compressor, by heating the house faster than the compressor cycle would, thus giving the system time to start the heat exchange process with less discomfort to the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM4AU 329 Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Thanks, BF. I'm not sure what is up with my PM. I wasn't aware. I received a PM from Titan on Monday. Maybe one of the Admins can look into it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsixfive 327 Posted November 26, 2006 Author Share Posted November 26, 2006 I had a service man come out just before I went out of town. One of two things is wrong with it. The least likely is that the expansion valve is bad. What's most likely is that the inside unit and outside unit aren't compatible. He's verifying that with the manufacturers for me, but from all indications, this is the problem. The units each need specific amounts of refridgerant in them. When the compressor turned on, the pressure would build up in the outside unit (due to a higher volume of refridgerant needed in the inside unit) until a safety flag is thrown, which turns the compressor off. However, that does not turn the fan off, so the inside unit continues to run and circulate cold air. I'm at a loss as to how the previous owners were able to heat their house, and also wondering why this was not disclosed (however, doesn't suprise me, NOTHING was disclosed - I've spent a lot because of their dishonesty). The service guy is getting back to me early next week with the answer and possible solutions. He said due to a federal regulation recently passed, homeowners cannot just replace the inside or outside unit, they must replace both (thank goodness for tree hugging hippies that are able to ruin perfectly good processes and products using the legal system because they're ignorant of everything in life). I didn't quite understand him, but the service guy implied that I might be able to replace the internals of my indoor unit (ie - the heating coils) to match the outdoor unit. Hopefully I can go that route and not have to get a whole new system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottomfeeder 244 Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Thanks, BF. I'm not sure what is up with my PM. I wasn't aware. I received a PM from Titan on Monday. Maybe one of the Admins can look into it for me. From How Stuff Works: Imagine that you took an air conditioner and flipped it around so that the hot coils were on the inside and the cold coils were on the outside. Then you would have a heater. It turns out that this heater works extremely well. Rather than burning a fuel, what it is doing is "moving heat." A heat pump is an air conditioner that contains a valve that lets it switch between "air conditioner" and "heater." When the valve is switched one way, the heat pump acts like an air conditioner, and when it is switched the other way it reverses the flow of Freon and acts like a heater. Heat pumps can be extremely efficient in their use of energy. But one problem with most heat pumps is that the coils in the outside air collect ice. The heat pump has to melt this ice periodically, so it switches itself back to air conditioner mode to heat up the coils. To avoid pumping cold air into the house in air conditioner mode, the heat pump also lights up burners or electric strip heaters to heat the cold air that the air conditioner is pumping out. Once the ice is melted, the heat pump switches back to heating mode and turns off the burners. http://home.howstuffworks.com/question49.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.