Limbaugh just doesn't get it

[Jenny AU-92 0]

I for one am very disappointed that Rush resigned, that ESPN let him, and then said they were glad he did. This is such a double standard!!! If Rush were a lib that said (for example) McNabb was not getting to play because he was black, that would be fine. If Rush had said a white running back was getting hype because he was white, that wouldbe fine. But heaven forbid a conservative mention the race thing in a negative way towards a minority. I think he got slammed because a bunch of sportwriters got pissed off at him for saying he thinks they were being soft on McNabb because of his race. All the whoopdedo in the NFL right now about race is so overblown.

And McNabb said himself eh did not want or expect an apology.

And Rush started out in sports broadcasting first, WAY before he ever turned to political commentary - football is in his blood, and he has been a longtime football fan/analyst/commentator. So he was certainly qualified to be on ESPN.

[Ranger12 46]

Rush resigned because he did not want the focus of the show to be about him. He already has a show about him and he respects the guys on the show like Chris Berman and Steve Young. Chris Berman was actually quoted as saying he did not think Rush meant anything malicious and that it just did not come out the way he meant it. We all have been guilty of that. I get tired of how loosely the word "racist" seems to be used these days. Racism is not bashing the media for the standards. Racism is blaming a QBs performance because of his skin. Rush never said anything negative about McNabbs performance is a result of his skin color. You might can debate that his analogy of McNabbs performance is wrong, but Rush did not equal performace to skin color. His beef was with the media and not McNabb. The same people that say you should be tolerant and not judgemental seem quick to judge a man because of an opinion. Katie Couric tried to pull some old Rush comments out of context this morning to try to make Rush out to have been a racist bigot for awhile. If Rush was racist, then why would have been such a big supporter of minorities in political positions? He has supported blacks like Colin Powell, Condelezza Rice, and JC Watts. Remember when the democrats were filibusting the vote for that Hispanic judge that was nominated by Bush for a federal court seat? Rush was very passionate about this man getting the postition and was very outraged that he did not get it. Sound like a racist to you?

[Tiger Al 0]

ranger, it'll be ok.

[Tigermike 3,023]

can someone accurately relate exactly why McNabb so upset?

McNabb had to respond the way he did or he would have been ridiculed by both friends & detractors. Strange that Limbaugh made the statement on Sunday morning & McNabb didn't respond till Wednesday. Did anyone get to him & encourage him to make his statement?

Katie Cruick attacked Rush because he has taken more than one jab at her on more than one occasion. Pay backs are tuff! Not only Curick, but many others took this oportunity to get in on the Rush bashing.

Why should the democratic canditate W. Clark feel compelled to make a statement about this? Another photo-op to show how PC he is?

IMHO freedom of speech took a direct hit in all this.

[Ranger12 46]

can someone accurately relate exactly why McNabb so upset?

IMHO freedom of speech took a direct hit in all this.

I can't agree more. Nobody is allowed to have an opinion anymore. If your opinion does not line up with the PC police then your are labeled as a racist, bigot, or insensetive to the lifestyles/cultures or others. People are afraid to share what they really think because of what the PC crowd says when they do. I disagree with the homosexual lifestyle and the PC crowd wants to call me homophobic, even though I don't hate gays and treat them different then any other person. I don't agree with affirmative action, but they will label me as a racist, even though I have quite a few close friends that are black. The PC scream "freedom of speech and expression", unless it is contrary to what they think. Seems like there was another country that was very similar to that in the past. Hmm...oh yeah, Nazi Germany! Freedom of speech comes with responsibilites and you go across the line when you slander a person or group to cause harm. However, you should not be condemned for questioning an organization or disagreeing with their practices. Should Rush have been more tactful about it, probably so. Was Rush being a racist and making derogatory remarks about McNabbs race? No. He criticized the media for something he felt was skewed, and whether he was right or wrong, it is his right to have that opinion because he did not slander anybody. Nobody really even jumped on those comments until CNN brought it up. I think alot of people need to travel back to the 50 and 60's to get an idea of what real racism really is. Also, if Gen. Clark is going to run for president, he needs to worry about more important things then what Rush Limbaugh says on a Sunday morning NFL pregame show. There is a double standard when it comes to racism. Case in point-Dusty Baker made comments about how white players can't take the heat. There was only a couple of days of talk about that and it was dropped and nothing happened to Dusty. Racism does work both ways, but it seems that the majority only wants to see it one way.

[SLAG-91 1,483]

The thing that gets me is this: If Limbaugh was trying to say that Donovan McNabb was overrated, fine...others have commented on his slow start this season as well. He didn't need to interject the (paraphrasing here) "media's desire for a black quarterback to succeed" nonsense...it is irrelevant to the overrated/not overrated discussion.

[Weagle98 119]

Slate Article Stating Rush Was Right

[AURainman 6]

I don't think Rush was right to say it, but I dont think that he was wrong either. Man, if you ride this fence long enough it sure does leave some splinters in your

[CarolinaTiger 0]

well, it seems to me like all rush said, in essence, is this:

McNabb was treated differently because he is black.

isn't that what Affirmative Action is?

McNabb didn't address rush's assertion.

he could've said, "no, i'm not being given a pass at all", or "no, i'm not being given a pass just because i'm black"...

but he didn't say either.

[CCTAU 3,295]

Uh. No comment. When I talk, I get passionate. And when I get passionate.....my "sheet" sometimes falls off. So I'll sit this one out before the board liberals label me as David Dukes successor!!!!!

[mcgufcm 4,096]

i'm going to follow CCTAU's lead (for the opposing reason that the conservative dominated board would overreact to what i say), but i would like to address the "overrated" tag. how can a man that was second in his conference (among qualified qbs) in qb passer ratings be overrated? how can a man that had over a 2:1 TD to int rating the year before be overrated? how can a guy that has accounted for 75% of his team's total offense since he became a starter be overrated? two time pro bowler, never missed the playoffs, two time division champion, two trips to nfc championship... if that's overrated, i hope jason campbell is overrated. the fact is rush was wrong. his opinion was uninformed and dumb. on top of that, he injected race in a place where it has no place. 15 of the 32 teams have a minority qb on the TWO DEEP ROSTER, 8 of those teams (not including the falcons by the way) start black qbs. the media doesn't have to hype a black man to show that they can succeed. all you have to do is watch the game to find that out. vick, mcnair, mcnabb, culpepper... these guys are some of the best in the biz. two of them have been runners up in the mvp voting at one time or another. rush did something dumb and got what he deserved in the pink slip. if he thinks he is qualified to comment on the nfl as "a fan" which is what he was... then he should do his homework a little better before popping his mouth off.

[AURainman 6]

After seeing the men on NFL countdown this Sunday, I must say that Rush was definitely in the wrong. He went to far for what he was hired to do.

[Weagle98 119]

Offensive Passing Leaders 2002 NFL

NAME COM ATT PCT YDS YPG YPA LNG TD INT SK SYD RAT

1 Oakland 418 619 67.5 4689 293.1 7.58 75 26 10 36 214 97.2

2 St. Louis 408 635 64.3 4480 280.0 7.06 58 24 27 46 326 79.9

3 Buffalo 377 612 61.6 4364 272.8 7.13 73 24 15 54 369 86.0

4 Seattle 361 587 61.5 4257 266.1 7.25 83 19 16 33 179 83.0

5 Indianapolis 392 591 66.3 4200 262.5 7.11 69 27 19 23 145 88.8

6 Denver 359 554 64.8 4139 258.7 7.47 82 21 20 46 315 84.8

7 NY Giants 338 549 61.6 4103 256.4 7.47 82 19 14 24 152 85.4

8 Pittsburgh 350 551 63.5 4036 252.3 7.32 72 26 22 34 204 84.6

9 Minnesota 337 558 60.4 3951 246.9 7.08 61 19 23 49 266 76.1

10 Green Bay 361 580 62.2 3823 238.9 6.59 85 29 16 27 196 86.6

11 New England 374 605 61.8 3767 235.4 6.23 49 28 14 31 190 85.3

12 Kansas City 292 477 61.2 3763 235.2 7.89 99 27 13 26 141 93.5

13 Cincinnati 350 591 59.2 3732 233.3 6.31 72 17 22 37 256 71.8

14 New Orleans 291 538 54.1 3685 230.3 6.85 64 27 15 38 247 80.8

15 Tampa Bay 348 567 61.4 3665 229.1 6.46 76 23 10 41 220 86.3

Cleveland 338 552 61.2 3665 229.1 6.64 78 27 22 35 253 80.5

17 NY Jets 329 485 67.8 3619 226.2 7.46 47 25 10 32 201 98.3

18 Philadelphia 318 548 58.0 3606 225.4 6.58 59 27 11 36 222 85.9

19 San Francisco 354 571 62.0 3576 223.5 6.26 76 23 10 22 119 86.0

20 Washington 300 559 53.7 3523 220.2 6.30 62 24 20 38 269 72.5

21 Tennessee 306 500 61.2 3441 215.1 6.88 55 22 15 21 121 83.9

22 Atlanta 268 479 55.9 3384 211.5 7.06 74 18 12 36 217 80.2

23 San Diego 324 538 60.2 3368 210.5 6.26 52 17 16 24 180 76.5

24 Chicago 310 543 57.1 3316 207.3 6.11 76 22 18 44 265 74.8

25 Detroit 277 577 48.0 3168 198.0 5.49 64 19 25 20 174 57.9

26 Baltimore 262 479 54.7 3118 194.9 6.51 77 20 14 41 271 76.5

27 Miami 271 455 59.6 3069 191.8 6.75 77 18 15 25 179 79.3

28 Arizona 291 548 53.1 3038 189.9 5.54 80 18 22 41 298 63.7

29 Dallas 252 471 53.5 3020 188.8 6.41 80 14 16 54 399 69.1

30 Jacksonville 268 462 58.0 3019 188.7 6.53 79 18 9 42 257 82.5

31 Carolina 255 464 55.0 2981 186.3 6.42 69 15 22 44 287 65.7

32 Houston 235 447 52.6 2636 164.8 5.90 81 11 15 76 411 64.7

[Weagle98 119]

Offensive Passing Leaders 2003

NAME COM ATT PCT YDS YPG YPA LNG TD INT SK SYD RAT

1 St. Louis 109 167 65.3 1087 271.8 6.51 37 6 4 12 88 85.6

2 Washington 100 179 55.9 1294 258.8 7.23 48 6 4 17 106 80.6

3 Tennessee 109 168 64.9 1292 258.4 7.69 42 8 3 11 60 96.6

4 Tampa Bay 77 121 63.6 769 256.3 6.36 68 5 2 2 10 88.5

5 Dallas 71 126 56.3 1022 255.5 8.11 54 4 4 10 55 80.2

6 NY Giants 90 159 56.6 1016 254.0 6.39 77 6 5 6 33 75.4

7 NY Jets 90 142 63.4 961 240.3 6.77 61 2 2 2 11 81.9

8 Minnesota 80 133 60.2 1198 239.6 9.01 72 12 2 11 51 113.5

9 Jacksonville 102 160 63.8 1184 236.8 7.40 84 7 3 12 69 92.8

10 Houston 81 143 56.6 931 232.8 6.51 78 4 6 7 44 68.3

11 Pittsburgh 101 158 63.9 1160 232.0 7.34 50 5 6 11 60 80.7

12 Indianapolis 83 124 66.9 927 231.8 7.48 79 9 3 3 25 103.1

13 Cincinnati 110 177 62.1 1151 230.2 6.50 55 6 6 11 82 78.1

14 San Diego 112 192 58.3 1139 227.8 5.93 40 8 7 8 66 74.1

15 Buffalo 93 159 58.5 1129 225.8 7.10 54 5 4 12 79 80.4

16 San Francisco 99 176 56.3 1107 221.4 6.29 37 7 7 9 45 71.9

17 Arizona 100 172 58.1 1090 218.0 6.34 71 5 8 8 43 67.2

18 Oakland 96 179 53.6 1077 215.4 6.02 46 5 4 13 71 71.8

19 Denver 88 148 59.5 1074 214.8 7.26 44 8 3 7 41 91.4

20 New England 104 174 59.8 1072 214.4 6.16 42 6 7 13 96 72.3

21 New Orleans 99 164 60.4 1065 213.0 6.49 42 6 4 9 58 81.5

22 Detroit 102 196 52.0 1041 208.2 5.31 43 7 8 4 22 62.5

23 Atlanta 92 158 58.2 1040 208.0 6.58 63 6 10 15 86 64.3

24 Seattle 67 122 54.9 803 200.8 6.58 66 6 2 10 66 84.8

25 Green Bay 104 157 66.2 995 199.0 6.34 34 9 7 2 14 84.2

26 Kansas City 84 138 60.9 955 191.0 6.92 50 6 6 8 51 78.0

27 Cleveland 91 147 61.9 923 184.6 6.28 71 6 6 8 64 76.4

28 Miami 61 105 58.1 722 180.5 6.88 57 5 4 6 36 79.1

29 Philadelphia 73 144 50.7 672 168.0 4.67 27 1 5 16 98 51.6

30 Chicago 66 125 52.8 585 146.3 4.68 49 3 8 15 77 46.9

31 Carolina 57 103 55.3 529 132.3 5.14 24 4 4 6 30 66.4

32 Baltimore 56 108 51.9 468 117.0 4.33 32 2 6 10 54 46.4

[Weagle98 119]

Career Ratings

Name Yrs RAT

Bulger 3 96.9

Garcia 5 88.3

Manning 6 86.6

Farve 13 86.4

Culpepper 5 86.3

Gannon 16 85.3

Brunell 11 85.2

Maddox 7 84.8

B. Johnson 12 84.8

Brady 4 84.1

Green 10 83.9

McNair 9 82.9

Hasselbeck 5 81.8

Fiedler 8 79.7

Brooks 5 79.6

Blake 12 79.2

Ramsy 2 78.6

McNabb 5 77.5

Bledsoe 11 77.3

Testaverde 17 75.0

Brees 3 74.7

Collins 9 73.7

Kitna 7 73.5

Stewart 9 71.3

Holcomb 7 70.0

Plummer 7 69.9

Carter 3 69.2

D. Johnson 4 69.4

Delhomme 5 67.3

Carr 2 64.3

Harrington 2 60.8

Boller R 46.8

[mcgufcm 4,096]

please don't pretend mcnabb is strictly limited to passing numbers like your stats show. AND don't forget that mcnabb was not the starter at the end of the season due to a broken fibula so the 2002 team numbers are not a direct reflection on him. stats don't always tell the story. oh and no one is pretending that he is playing well to start the season or else we wouldn't be having this conversation so thanks for the 03 numbers. but in case you weren't looking, he still has led this team to a 2-2 record, one game out of first in the division. he's a winner.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

I think several of us already said that we thought Rush was wrong about McNabb. He is a good QB. He's not the most accurate passer, but he makes up for it in other ways.

What we have been saying is that he stated an opinion. An opinion which was not racist. He didn't say the Eagles gave McNabb the job because he was black. He didn't say McNabb was a bad QB because blacks can't handle the job. He said he thought McNabb was given too much credit for his team's success and that it was because the media, wanting to see a black QB do well, was overhyping him.

You can argue whether his assessment is right til the cows come home. What you cannot do (in good conscience) is say that his statements somehow are racist in nature. He wasn't making a blanket statement about the abilities of black QBs (Steve McNair, Michael Vick and so on never came up). He was actaully taking a shot at the media.

I'm just so tired of people not being able to speak their mind and bring up race without being labeled a racist. If Brian Cox can say the things he's said about Urlacher, if Shannon Sharpe can talk about how he expects to be able to beat white cornerbacks because he doesn't think they're fast enough or strong enough, if Charles Barkley can say "See, that's why I hate white people.", if Isiah Thomas can make remarks about Larry Bird only being considered something special because he's white...then black folks lose the right to get indignant when Rush says that McNabb gets a little more credit than his play warrants because the media wants a black QB to do well.

Give me a friggin' break.

[CarolinaTiger 0]

... rush did something dumb and got what he deserved in the pink slip....

Lord have mercy if doing something dumb warrants a pink slip.

who would be left to do all the work?

Clinton?

i gotta call out all the libs here on this one...normally you make halfway intelligent retorts to the overwhelmingly conservative points of view here...

yet on this one, you have yet to address what Rush actually said vs. what you want him to have meant.

why, exactly, was what rush said 'racist'?

ct

[Weagle98 119]

I'm not saying McNabb is a bad quarterback, in fact I think he is a good quarterback, Rush never said he wasn't good, however I don't think that he is a great quarterback, which is all that rush was saying.

2-2 can also be looked at as tied for last in the division. or tied for 8th in the conference, or tied for 15th in the NFL.

EAR TEAM G GS COM ATT PCT YDS YPA LNG TD INT SK SYD RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD

1999 PHI 12 6 106 216 49.1 948 4.39 63 8 7 28 204 60.1 47 313 6.7 27 0

2000 PHI 16 16 330 569 58.0 3365 5.91 70 21 13 45 262 77.8 86 629 7.3 54 6

2001 PHI 16 16 285 493 57.8 3233 6.56 64 25 12 39 273 84.3 82 482 5.9 33 2

2002 PHI 10 10 211 361 58.4 2289 6.34 59 17 6 28 166 86.0 63 460 7.3 40 6

2003 PHI 4 4 71 141 50.4 664 4.71 39 1 5 16 98 51.3 25 174 7.0 25 0

Total 58 52 1003 1780 56.3 10499 5.90 70 72 43 156 1003 77.0 303 2058 6.8 54 14

[mcgufcm 4,096]

i suppose that somewhere in my text i called rush limbaugh a dirty, no-good racist. i just can't find it. what i did say was that he is supposed to be a tv expert on a subject that he clearly knows nothing about,and therefore deserved to be fired for his ignorance. rush injected race in the issue without cause or provocation, and he was wrong. not pathetically racist or anything else you may think i'm saying, just wrong. since his job is to add insight and observation, he should be fired.

as for the "black men never get called out" theory. i'll use one of your examples: isiah thomas. when isiah said that he was DESTROYED by the media. he was also evaluated by the nba as to whether he should be FINED or not. AND you could argue that he also later lost his job because of it (great move by larry legend by the way as a pacers fan i couldn't stand watching an isiah led tank job again). so yeah, everyone should be held accountable for blanket statements and they are. i don't even think rush's statement falls in that category though... it was more an issue of gross ignorance than anything else.

[Weagle98 119]

CBSsportsline.com Sept 18th

To some scouts, McNabb has always been overrated. One recalled giving him a third-round grade coming out of Syracuse. When McNabb was getting all the plaudits, that scout was the one his peers were laughing at.

Now who's doing the laughing?

Donovan McNabb: Good quarterback, but don't even think about using the word great.

And that's why he's the most-overrated player, something he was getting even if he hadn't smelled up the place Sunday.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

i suppose that somewhere in my text i called rush limbaugh a dirty, no-good racist.

You didn't. Others have and you just happen to be arguing a similar track as they did.

what i did say was that he is supposed to be a tv expert on a subject that he clearly knows nothing about,and therefore deserved to be fired for his ignorance.

He wasn't fired, or forced to resign, because of ignorance. If that were a fireable offense at ESPN, Bill Curry would long ago stopping calling college football games. The furor over all this had nothing to do with some guy making an comment displaying an ignorance of football. This was about some perceived "racist" statement from Rush and you know it.

as for the "black men never get called out" theory.  i'll use one of your examples: isiah thomas.  when isiah said that he was DESTROYED by the media.  he was also evaluated by the nba as to whether he should be FINED or not.

Actually, you're right on this one. But that's the only example I can think of. Brian Cox, Shannon Sharpe, and others have said things much more recently with nary a word from the racism police.

[CShine 0]

From the most matter-of-fact wire service report to the most outspoken talk-radio shouter, McNabb's race has not been an issue.

Until now. Until Rush Limbaugh and his mouth made it an issue. But why is anyone surprised? This is the same man who once told an African American caller to "take that bone out of your nose and call me back." The same man who once said, "Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?"

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/football/6893265.htm

[TigerGlide 1]

I posted this on another board, I thought I'd bring it here also:

This is my take on the situation. I consider myself a conservative and I generally vote Republican, but that being said, I think Rush has become a blowhard and more concerned about publicity in his last few years than earlier in his career. I am not fond of the name calling and personal attacks he makes part of his radio show. I have not listened to him in over three years because of this. I just wanted to state my personal opinion of him before I make these next comments.

Rush has built his career reporting and commenting on politics, where outside of the elections, success and failure are subjective and based on opinions. One person calls tax cuts a success and states XYZ as their reasoning, then the next person can call them a failure and state ABC as their reasoning. So, most political issues are simply a point of view and policy changes or law implementations have a positive and negative affect on our lives depending on an individuals specific situation. So, anyone can say another person is wrong or doing a poor job and find plenty of data to support that opinion.

In football, there are stat sheets, a scoreboard and win/loss records that cannot be disputed. If a QB's team goes 10-6 in the NFL, regardless of the style of play, then that is a successful QB and team. To state that a person is overrated and being propped up by the media is bringing an argument out of the political realm and trying to apply it to sports, where it doesn't work. The data in sports is solid and indisputable:

NFL QB CAREER STATS

Donovan McNabb/5yrs

56.3 COMP%, 10499 yds, 72 TD's, 43 INT's, 77.0 rating, 2058 yds rushing, 14 TD's

Peyton Manning/6 yrs

62.5 COMP%, 21918 yds, 149 TD's, 104 INT's, 86.8 rating, 555 yds rushing, 9 TD's

Of these two QB's, I see two good players with different styles and different offensive schemes. In the last two seasons and the first part of this season Peyton Manning's Colts have gone 21-17 (.550 WIN%), Donovan McNabb's Eagles have gone 28-13 (.680 WIN%). So from a hard facts standpoint, I think Rush is all wet.

I will note, though, I have been a HUGE McNabb fan since his last year at Syracuse. I'll never forget the Orange Bowl between them and Florida. Even in defeat, McNabb played his heart out and Steve Spurrier ran onto the field and shook his hand before finding HC Paul Pasqualoni.

As far as Rush saying the media propped McNabb up because of their desire to have a successful black NFL QB, I think was out of line. I did not immediately take the comments as racists, because I have heard him, in the past, make similar comments about Bill Clinton, John McCain and Ted Kennedy as being one of "their guys". He constantly attacks the mainstream media in his radio show and I interpreted the comments that way because of my prior knowledge of his broadcasting style. If I was not familiar with him, I would have definately taken the comments as racism. I do not think Rush is racist, but I do think he was wrong in every aspect of this argument. He used an argument from his political background and tried to apply it to sports, and it doesn't apply.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Here's another take:

Let’s look at a quarterback with similar numbers who also plays for a team with a great defense. I don’t know anyone who would call Brad Johnson one of the best quarterbacks in pro football — which is how McNabb is often referred to. In fact, I don’t know anyone who would call Brad Johnson, on the evidence of his 10-year NFL career, much more than mediocre. Yet, Johnson’s NFL career passer rating, as of last Sunday, is 7.3 points higher than McNabb’s (84.8 to 77.5), he has completed his passes at a higher rate (61.8 percent to 56.4 percent) and has averaged significantly more yards per pass (6.84 to 5.91). McNabb excels in just one area, running, where he has gained 2,040 yards and scored 14 touchdowns to Johnson’s 467 and seven. But McNabb has also been sacked more frequently than Johnson-more than once, on average, per game, which negates much of the rushing advantage.

       

In other words, in just about every way, Brad Johnson has been a more effective quarterback than McNabb and over a longer period.

       

And even if you say the stats don’t matter and that a quarterback’s job is to win games, Johnson comes out ahead. Johnson has something McNabb doesn’t, a Super Bowl ring, which he went on to win after his Bucs trounced McNabb’s Eagles in last year’s NFC championship game by a score of 27-10. The Bucs and Eagles were regarded by everyone as having the two best defenses in the NFL last year. When they played in the championship game, the difference was that the Bucs defense completely bottled up McNabb while the Eagles defense couldn’t stop Johnson.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/975128.asp?0cv=OB10