Is Nick Saban skirting the rules in recruiting?

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Why is it that everyone sees this as (another) shot at Sherrill, whom CTT has never liked, except you? Sherill gets it. Phillip Marshall gets it. An idiot like Melick gets it. I get it. This isn't hard stuff.

[RunInRed 16,390]

Why is it that everyone sees this as (another) shot at Sherrill, whom CTT has never liked, except you? Sherill gets it. Phillip Marshall gets it. An idiot like Melick gets it. I get it. This isn't hard stuff.

We can agree to disagree. But ask yourself this - what good does it do Tuberville to take a shot at Sherrill at this point? You have to remember how CTT operates and what has gone on in recruiting these past 8 months. Again, IMO it was towards Saban.

[BamaGrad03 146]

We can agree to disagree

ssssss...yeah, he hates that.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Why is it that everyone sees this as (another) shot at Sherrill, whom CTT has never liked, except you? Sherill gets it. Phillip Marshall gets it. An idiot like Melick gets it. I get it. This isn't hard stuff.

We can agree to disagree. But ask yourself this - what good does it do Tuberville to take a shot at Sherrill at this point? You have to remember how CTT operates and what has gone on in recruiting these past 8 months. Again, IMO it was towards Saban.

I just find it curious that you're the only person I've been able to find so far that has managed to read this notion into CTT's comments. If Phillip Marshall, who certainly gets much more access to CTT before and after pressers than you do, says it was a shot at Sherrill, I think it's a safe bet that's who it was about.

Look, I'm all for giving Sabear and the fans that offer to hold His Majesty's wang and wipe his butt for him hell about it. I just don't invent stuff that isn't there to do it.

[aumd03 2]

We can agree to disagree

ssssss...yeah, he hates that.

I'm with you BG, I think people are reading more into this. Do I think Saban pushes the envelope when it comes to recruiting, certainly, but most good recruiters do.

But I think Tommy's jab was at Jackie Sherrill. If you hate someone bad enough, I think you never pass up an opportunity to take a shot at them. I think if he had a jab at Saban, he would have just said it. Remember, Tommy has no problem speaking his mind. This is the man that told ESPN they had too much influence and told Ole Miss fans to leave the rebel flags at home because they were hurting recruiting.

[RunInRed 16,390]

Why is it that everyone sees this as (another) shot at Sherrill, whom CTT has never liked, except you? Sherill gets it. Phillip Marshall gets it. An idiot like Melick gets it. I get it. This isn't hard stuff.

We can agree to disagree. But ask yourself this - what good does it do Tuberville to take a shot at Sherrill at this point? You have to remember how CTT operates and what has gone on in recruiting these past 8 months. Again, IMO it was towards Saban.

I just find it curious that you're the only person I've been able to find so far that has managed to read this notion into CTT's comments. If Phillip Marshall, who certainly gets much more access to CTT before and after pressers than you do, says it was a shot at Sherrill, I think it's a safe bet that's who it was about.

Look, I'm all for giving Sabear and the fans that offer to hold His Majesty's wang and wipe his butt for him hell about it. I just don't invent stuff that isn't there to do it.

You honestly think PM would hang CTT out to dry?! Sometimes the biggest thing someone says is what they don't say...PM is first class but you'll learn more by reading between the lines than you ever will from what he directly puts on paper. Remember, there is a reason PM has garnered that kind of access to Tubs - there's a great deal of wearing the orange and blue colored glasses that comes with that. Believe me, I'm right on this one

[TitanTiger 20,472]

What is the point of making oblique references that are so oblique that only one guy in the entire known universe seems to catch them?

[RunInRed 16,390]

Oh I'm not the only one. I might be the only on this board. But i'm not the only one.

[Bama Possum 0]

I think its a bit odd that Saban was a good recruiter at LSU when LSU's recruiting hasn't even budged from being stellar since he left.

He may have started something and may not be bad, but honestly it seems even Miles is a GREAT recruiter.

And the small info coming out from a lot of other recruits and schools pointing at bama is enough to lead me to believe he is cutting some corners because he has no financial incentive to avoid getting NCAA probation. His contract is pretty solid in his favor.

You need to go back and READ his contract. You can find it easily online.

If he creates a probation situation, he loses it all. Period.

Guaranteed money simply means the university cannot fire him for any old reason. There are several very specific things that will cause him to lose his job with NO compensation. If anything, he has MORE of a financial incentive not to get involved in any serious violations.

Here's the basic rundown...

Bama fires Saban...He gets every penny he is owed. All 32 million.

Saban gets hit with probation or creates a serious problem for Alabama. He gets nothing.

Saban decides to leave Bama for another job, he pays no penalty, but he loses the rest of his contract.

The contract is also designed to pay incentives for winning bowls, championships, etc...

Mr. Expert on contract law....please provide a link to said contract. It is obvious your only knowledge of the said contract comes from what you heard on the Paul Finebaum Show.

First of all, Mr. insult someone because you don't know what the heck you're talking about, I don't listen to Paul Finebaum.

Secondly, while I am sad to report that the link I had to the PDF file of the contract is no longer valid, I can provide you with numerous links restating what I said...

Here's one...Sporting News Story

I can also provide more if that doesn't give you enough information. If you wish to view the original you can get it. As Saban is a state employee, his contract is not a secret and viewable.

I assure you that you do NOT want to get into a pissing contest with me using logic. I am not a sidewalk alumni seeking to sound like a badass on the internet. I have always kept my manner civil and do not engage in bashing threads on an opposing teams board, but I will respond to snotty little remarks from someone who is angry because I challenged their fallacious assumptions.

The things that I stated in my first post are FACTS, and can be documented, as opposed to your compatriot's BELIEFS, which are wrong. You see, when using basic logic you cannot have false information in your syllogism, or the whole thing falls apart. If you seek more documentation, I will provide it, but I think that most people would be satisfied with the link already provided. If you are not, then I highly doubt I will go out of my way to provide the others for a couple of days as I will not be near my computer.

[JohnDeere 0]

facts? I asked to produce documentation and you didn't. I can't believe I wasted 5 minutes of my life reading your post and following some useless link.

[Bama Possum 0]

You're not worth my time.

[The Prowler 1]

Wow, what a difference a Year makes.....

$abahr's Contract

"The Saban contract also includes clauses that he can be fired for cause, including major NCAA violations (Minor Violations can add up to Major Violations) and behavior that places himself or the university "into public disrepute, contempt, embarrassment, scandal or ridicule..."

[WarTiger 3,901]

Wow, what a difference a Year makes.....

$abahr's Contract

"The Saban contract also includes clauses that he can be fired for cause, including major NCAA violations (Minor Violations can add up to Major Violations) and behavior that places himself or the university "into public disrepute, contempt, embarrassment, scandal or ridicule..."

His press conferences are enough to qualify for dismissal according to this. His days are numbered.

[AUman43 5]

A one-legged, blind man could recruit at LSU! This state traditionally "looks down" on recruits that leave the state, particulaly for those who choose other SEC Schools, and rivals at that. Life is made tough IF you choose to go out of state. Saban didn't have to break a sweat at LSWHO! As for Bammer, it's well known that CERTAIN areas of the state were Bear's to lose when he was coach and much the same treatment applied for those who chose to go to Auburn during his era. During the Dye era, he used Bear's advancing years and poor health to his advantage as well as beating him and thus, we were able to retake some of those "hallowed areas." The game site change also resulted in a much more level playing field, as Dye knew it would.

IMO, immediate playing time, combined with some negative recruiting tactics (I have no facts to base this on and it's only what I've heard) worked together to give the Sabear a record recruiting year. I have no doubt that Snake's presence in the Mobile and Gulf Coast area was a factor in his success there, combined with playing time and negative recruiting. Next year will be a "revealing year" with regard to just how strong a recruiter he (Sabear) really is. he can't play the immediate playing time card again and he will have to deal with the continuing off-the field problems his players are having and the negative effect it will have on recruits parents. Their record as well as ours will also play a role. Our game with them this year is HUGE because of the media hype. This is a card that Tubs can play to the hilt IF the negative recruiting persists with Sabear. I'm not sure, based upon the above that Sabear actually blatently broke recruiting rules, based upon the above factors, but if he did, it will catch up with him and Bammer again and next time, the NCAA is NOT going to be in a good mood.

Finally, I'm so glad that we have Tubs right now. History teaches us that every time we start to gain the upper hand on "them" we suddenly end up on probation. Wonder why?? Tubs plays by the rules and his reputation is well known in that regard. Sabear is the one who should be looking over his shoulder along with the nervous bammers. Looking forward to it! WDE!

[WREGL3 0]

Or maybe, as his history would indicate, Saban is a good recruiter.

Do you guys not find irony in all of this? For the last 5 years, you guys have always said that Bama fans make excuses...everytime AU lands a big recruit.

Now that Saban is killing it in recruiting, it's because we're cheating, and not because of merit.

BG, let me say this, I believe that Saban skirts the rules. I also believe every other head coach of a big time program in america skirts the rules. You have to get into those gray areas and do what you can do that won't get you into trouble. And those that skirt the rules do include TT. I am not one who thinks that he doesn't skirt the rules. Let me also say that I don't believe that Saban is a good recruiter I think he is a great recruiter and works his tail off constantly. I have the utmost respect for his work ethic. If anyone on this board is putting him down they are probably jealous or scared. I am neither. I think TT is a great coach and a great man and I think Saban being here will make him work harder which will take AU up a notch from where we are. As for the last 5 years, don't know how you came up with that time frame, I have never said that and I have never said that when bama lands a big recruit it is because you cheated. I believe that bama lands recruits a lot of the time just because of the ANCIENT history of the program and not the recent. Lets be honest if it were head to head on recent then we would win based on that merit. But a lot of people listen to the media and other people that pump a lot of sunshine about the glory days of bama ball and kids here that and it helps with recruiting, a little. The coach busting his butt the most has a lot to do with it. I think next year you will win the recruiting battle head to head one last time and then things will even out some. The reason I believe this is because the selling points will change and instant playing time will not be a selling tool anymore. Now if you don't think lack of depth and instant playing time played a role in landing kids who believe they have the talent to come into that situation and start then you are kidding yourself. Sorry to ramble on just defending you to a point but making one also.

War Eagle

[SouthLink02 8]

A one-legged, blind man could recruit at LSU!

Before Saban, nobody did it that great

Point to DiNardo all you want, he brought in some absolute studs (Faulk, Davey, etc...) but he also had classes where half failed to ever enter the field due to pathetic off-the-field problems by the high majority of his players. His overall recruiting was average on the whole and the lack of depth across MANY positions when Saban entered showed.

[LegalEagle 22]

Or maybe, as his history would indicate, Saban is a good recruiter.

Do you guys not find irony in all of this? For the last 5 years, you guys have always said that Bama fans make excuses...everytime AU lands a big recruit.

Now that Saban is killing it in recruiting, it's because we're cheating, and not because of merit.

BG03 I have to partially agree with you. All this talk of Satan giving players money can't be right - Apparently he's giving them guns and tellin' them to get their own money!!

[BamaGrad03 146]

IMO, immediate playing time, combined with some negative recruiting tactics (I have no facts to base this on and it's only what I've heard) worked together to give the Sabear a record recruiting year. I have no doubt that Snake's presence in the Mobile and Gulf Coast area was a factor in his success there, combined with playing time and negative recruiting.

I know...I've "heard" CTT is the biggest negative recruiter in the SEC. No link...just what I've "heard"...

BTW Stabler has always been in Mobile. We just HAPPEN to clean up in Mobile the first year Saban gets a full class?

Oh but it's because of Stabler.

This negative recruiting crap is a wuss crutch loser excuse. It's a way to justify getting raped in recruiting this year. It's a way to keep from having to admit that you lost. Negative recruiting. Bah. Explain then, why there is recruit update after recruit update where the players talk about how "he doesn't run down other schools, he just sells you on Alabama and the coaching staff"....explain that. Why would players go OUT OF THEIR WAY to mention that if all he does is negative recruit? Even ones who don't pick Alabama...

The only people who I've EVER heard suggest he was a negative recruiter were Auburn fans. Why is that?

[Tiger in Spain 0]

The only people who I've EVER heard suggest he was a negative recruiter were Auburn fans. Why is that?

Not so fast, my friend. Don't forget about us.

Signed,

Georgia

South Carolina

Tennessee

Florida

LSU

Arkansas

MSU

[WarTiger 3,901]

IMO, immediate playing time, combined with some negative recruiting tactics (I have no facts to base this on and it's only what I've heard) worked together to give the Sabear a record recruiting year. I have no doubt that Snake's presence in the Mobile and Gulf Coast area was a factor in his success there, combined with playing time and negative recruiting.

I know...I've "heard" CTT is the biggest negative recruiter in the SEC. No link...just what I've "heard"...

BTW Stabler has always been in Mobile. We just HAPPEN to clean up in Mobile the first year Saban gets a full class?

Oh but it's because of Stabler.

This negative recruiting crap is a wuss crutch loser excuse. It's a way to justify getting raped in recruiting this year. It's a way to keep from having to admit that you lost. Negative recruiting. Bah. Explain then, why there is recruit update after recruit update where the players talk about how "he doesn't run down other schools, he just sells you on Alabama and the coaching staff"....explain that. Why would players go OUT OF THEIR WAY to mention that if all he does is negative recruit? Even ones who don't pick Alabama...

The only people who I've EVER heard suggest he was a negative recruiter were Auburn fans. Why is that?

those are pretty strong words from a fan base that has ONLY this ONE "paper" class to pump its chest about for the last 7 years. This is just further proof that uat fans will grasp at ANY strand of hope for their program and its a text book example of why the majority of us have such a strong dislike for uat fans. Think about it BG. Admit it or not, uat's program has been mired in mediocrity for YEARS with very little to show for their efforts. Now, here you are with this statement pumping yourself up with uat's PAPER POTENTIAL and you wonder why we want uat to lose at everything. Imagine how your fan base would be (after the reaction to the POTENTIAL) if they are to actually win something down the road. There is no indication that they will, its all ONLY potential. The same Potential that every other school in the country has every year. I wouldn't be so quick to pump my chest over this "class" just yet.

I'm not really sure what you think we lost at, though? If you mean our players weren't as good on "paper" as the ones you got, yeah, I guess you won that one. I've said it over and over that recruiting rankings are pointless and a waste of time. Before you run with that and say its only because alabama got a higher ranking class than auburn, save your breath. Tuberville has done just fine with the classes he's recruited and we'll be just fine. We've won 50 games over the last 5 years, so it seems we're doing just fine.

We've said it many times and we'll keep saying it. Since you enjoy getting all that "paper potential" you celebrate all you want. But, remember, until it translates into wins during the period of Sept. - Nov., you've got NOTHING. How many of those "high ranking on paper" recruits will even see the field? How many of them will actually qualify? How many will have their grades changed to qualify?

[BamaGrad03 146]

I wasn't puffing my chest about our class. Not one time did I say "oohhh look at our class it means we are gonna win the national title"...

NOBODY here was accusing Saban of negative recruiting last year when he had 4 weeks to finish up Shula's class. EVERYBODY is claiming it now without any links or reasoning...except that they heard some other AU fan say it.

Where did you lose? You lost 15 times when you offered guys we offered...and every one of them picked Bama.

And instead of saying "you know what, Nick Saban's last three classes were ranked 1st, 2nd, and 1st respectively..he's a dang good recruiter"...all we hear are excuses about shallow depth charts and negative recruiting.

And you wonder why people don't like Auburn fans?

[Tiger in Spain 0]

..........

And you wonder why people don't like Auburn fans?

We (Auburn people) are looked upon pretty favorably everywhere in the conference outside of tuscaloosa. Our poll numbers regarding likability have even risen to over 50% in Baton Rouge for Christ's sake.

[WarTiger 3,901]

I wasn't puffing my chest about our class. Not one time did I say "oohhh look at our class it means we are gonna win the national title"...

NOBODY here was accusing Saban of negative recruiting last year when he had 4 weeks to finish up Shula's class. EVERYBODY is claiming it now without any links or reasoning...except that they heard some other AU fan say it.

Where did you lose? You lost 15 times when you offered guys we offered...and every one of them picked Bama.

One more time...until it translates into wins ON THE FIELD between Sept - Nov., we didn't lose anything.

And instead of saying "you know what, Nick Saban's last three classes were ranked 1st, 2nd, and 1st respectively..he's a dang good recruiter"...all we hear are excuses about shallow depth charts and negative recruiting.

but it was you only a few short years ago that said shula was raking in all this top talent and finding them before anybody else. Which is it? Anybody that watches football on a regular basis can see there is very little in the way of top talent at uat. Do you honestly believe that suitcase didn't sell those kids on early playing time because of the lack of depth? Do you really believe that? Like it or many of us have been around a long time and know how uat operates. We know the REC and others at uat will do anything to undermine Auburn's success. I don't care if you believe it or not, we all know how uat operates. I'm not offering any excuses about anything because there isn't anything to offer an excuse for. One class won't fix your program and we aren't going away.

And you wonder why people don't like Auburn fans?

[BamaGrad03 146]

One more time...until it translates into wins ON THE FIELD between Sept - Nov., we didn't lose anything.

You offered 15 guys scholarships to Auburn. ALL 15 went to Alabama. You don't have to call it losing. But it sure isn't winning.

We know the REC and others at uat will do anything to undermine Auburn's success.

Watch how I do this: "We all know the AU boosters and CTT will do anything to undermine the success at Bama..including negative recruiting and other things...that's what I've heard"

It's so easy to do. You know...just throw crap against the wall.

You are getting on this tangent. My comments were in response to the notion that Saban isn't a good recruiter. Anyone here who wants to say that Saban isn't a good recruiter is blind, or not a fan of football. You blame Bama fans for making excuses...but you have excuses for your excuses. It's amazing. We heard for a freaking YEAR that Saban would never recruit like he did at LSU...in tuscaloosa. What does he do...in his FIRST FREAKING YEAR? He pulls in the number one class in the nation...and beats Auburn 15-0 on head to head recruits.

Yeah. He can't recruit.

[MDP32AU 0]

One more time...until it translates into wins ON THE FIELD between Sept - Nov., we didn't lose anything.

You offered 15 guys scholarships to Auburn. ALL 15 went to Alabama. You don't have to call it losing. But it sure isn't winning.

We know the REC and others at uat will do anything to undermine Auburn's success.

Watch how I do this: "We all know the AU boosters and CTT will do anything to undermine the success at Bama..including negative recruiting and other things...that's what I've heard"

It's so easy to do. You know...just throw crap against the wall.

You are getting on this tangent. My comments were in response to the notion that Saban isn't a good recruiter. Anyone here who wants to say that Saban isn't a good recruiter is blind, or not a fan of football. You blame Bama fans for making excuses...but you have excuses for your excuses. It's amazing. We heard for a freaking YEAR that Saban would never recruit like he did at LSU...in tuscaloosa. What does he do...in his FIRST FREAKING YEAR? He pulls in the number one class in the nation...and beats Auburn 15-0 on head to head recruits.

Yeah. He can't recruit.

Just go away. Nobody wants to hear you stick up for bama on an Auburn board. It's getting old BG.