Enough with the Lebo

[TitanTiger 20,471]

Fact is, the Ole Miss program is in better shape than Auburn's.

Because it was not as bad off to start with and it wasn't on probation and they haven't suffered any significant amount of injuries.

Ole Miss will get a tournament invite. Can't say the same about AU right now.

Because of what I said above. Insert Dollard, Barber and Sylla back into this lineup and we'd be a good bet to make it too.

You'd have to be really dumb to ignore that fact and hang your hat on a single game. As your helpful pals pointed out, any rag-tag team can slip up and pull an upset in basketball. Thanks for validating my point.

We're not. But there was some delicious irony when you pointed out how good Andy Kennedy has done in one year at Ole Miss and he just got outcoached by Lebo.

The whole "what would you have done differently" argument is asinine.

No it's not. If you want to make the argument that someone isn't doing a good job, and you're presented with several reasons and circumstances that any rational basketball fan would acknowledge would put even the best, most reputable coaches behind the proverbial 8-ball, then asking you who you think would do better and why is a perfectly reasonable thing to ask. Otherwise you're just blathering nonsense and talking about some nebulous feelings which for all I know could be the anchovy pizza you had late last night talking.

You don't have to be a supermodel to recognize beauty. You don't have to be a chef to recognize when something tastes bad. You don't have to be a singer to realize that Ashley Simpson can't sing. The fact that you know she can't sing doesn't mean you have any particular insight into what surgical procedures or training she might need in order to be able to carry a tune in a bucket.

If we were in this situation in Year Four under normal circumstances, you'd have a point.

And that analogy sucks.

As for who would be better, how the hell do we know?

Surely if you're insightful enough to say that in spite of some of the most ridiculous circumstances ever to hit one team, we need a new coach because he's not doing a good job, then you should be able to tell us what it is he's doing wrong and who you think might do better. Otherwise, how the hell do you know Lebo's not doing a good job? Coaching and sports are a tad more complicated than whether or not Jessica Alba is good looking.

For all you know, I WOULD be better than Lebo. You might, too.

Um, no.

How long do you accept this excuse and that excuse, this justification and that rationale?

It's been said multiple times. We think Lebo needs to be given a chance with a full roster of healthy players before you can accurately evaluate how he's doing. If you think this year qualifies, you're crazy.

Is it too much to expect the coach of your SEC-caliber team to -- in FOUR years -- bring in SEC-level talent? To be considered one of the best 96 teams in the country? TOP 96?? (64 NCAA + 32 NIT). Spare me all the rationalizations and excuses. Valid or not, they bear no weight.

The only bear no weight to those who refuse to think beyond surface level skimming. He's brought in SEC-level talent. He brought in Toney Douglas, but Toney's ego was too much (along with his father's) to be a team player. Then there's Frank Tolbert, Korvotney Barber, Josh Dollard, Dewayne Reed and Rasheem Barrett. He got a true big man in 7-1 Boubacar Sylla.

Now that lineup is pretty good...until you remove Sylla, Barber and Dollard due to injuries and Douglas due to being an idiot.

And his 2008 class coming in next year includes two players who are only a tenth of a point away from being rated 4-stars on Rivals. One is a point guard who had offers from Tennessee, Virginia, Mississippi State and UAB.

It's easy to make excuse after excuse after excuse and say AU will be good "if and when". The fact is that other coaches -- Kennedy, Pearl, for example -- don't need to make them. When is immediately and there are no "ifs"

Again, because neither of them have faced anything even close to adversity. Hardly any injuries, no probation and no malcontent transfers. And yet, Lebo beat Pearl last year and came within an eyelash of beating Kennedy on the road. And now he's beaten Kennedy this year.

Immediately requires not getting waylaid with freakish problems...which is what Kennedy and Pearl have been fortunate enough not to deal with.

For the record, I don't actively root for Lebo to fail. In fact, I think he's a decent guy -- maybe a better assistant coach than a head coach, but -- and I wish him all the success in the world. I'd love for the basketball program to be a national force (so long as it doesn't detract from football's strength). But that's not what we've got right now and instead of progress, we get a different excuse every year.

Again, all based on nebulous feelings that don't stand up under more than a couple of minutes of critical examination. We can be a national force in b'ball. But not if we throw a guy under the bus for things beyond his control. Lebo will either be successful here given a chance with a full team, or he'll go somewhere else and be successful and we can try and attract whoever will take a chance on us and start this whole thing all over again. Yeah, that makes sense.

[GalensGhost 0]

Fact is, the Ole Miss program is in better shape than Auburn's.

Because it was not as bad off to start with and it wasn't on probation and they haven't suffered any significant amount of injuries.

Ole Miss will get a tournament invite. Can't say the same about AU right now.

Because of what I said above. Insert Dollard, Barber and Sylla back into this lineup and we'd be a good bet to make it too.

You'd have to be really dumb to ignore that fact and hang your hat on a single game. As your helpful pals pointed out, any rag-tag team can slip up and pull an upset in basketball. Thanks for validating my point.

We're not. But there was some delicious irony when you pointed out how good Andy Kennedy has done in one year at Ole Miss and he just got outcoached by Lebo.

The whole "what would you have done differently" argument is asinine.

No it's not. If you want to make the argument that someone isn't doing a good job, and you're presented with several reasons and circumstances that any rational basketball fan would acknowledge would put even the best, most reputable coaches behind the proverbial 8-ball, then asking you who you think would do better and why is a perfectly reasonable thing to ask. Otherwise you're just blathering nonsense and talking about some nebulous feelings which for all I know could be the anchovy pizza you had late last night talking.

You don't have to be a supermodel to recognize beauty. You don't have to be a chef to recognize when something tastes bad. You don't have to be a singer to realize that Ashley Simpson can't sing. The fact that you know she can't sing doesn't mean you have any particular insight into what surgical procedures or training she might need in order to be able to carry a tune in a bucket.

If we were in this situation in Year Four under normal circumstances, you'd have a point.

And that analogy sucks.

As for who would be better, how the hell do we know?

Surely if you're insightful enough to say that in spite of some of the most ridiculous circumstances ever to hit one team, we need a new coach because he's not doing a good job, then you should be able to tell us what it is he's doing wrong and who you think might do better. Otherwise, how the hell do you know Lebo's not doing a good job? Coaching and sports are a tad more complicated than whether or not Jessica Alba is good looking.

For all you know, I WOULD be better than Lebo. You might, too.

Um, no.

How long do you accept this excuse and that excuse, this justification and that rationale?

It's been said multiple times. We think Lebo needs to be given a chance with a full roster of healthy players before you can accurately evaluate how he's doing. If you think this year qualifies, you're crazy.

Is it too much to expect the coach of your SEC-caliber team to -- in FOUR years -- bring in SEC-level talent? To be considered one of the best 96 teams in the country? TOP 96?? (64 NCAA + 32 NIT). Spare me all the rationalizations and excuses. Valid or not, they bear no weight.

The only bear no weight to those who refuse to think beyond surface level skimming. He's brought in SEC-level talent. He brought in Toney Douglas, but Toney's ego was too much (along with his father's) to be a team player. Then there's Frank Tolbert, Korvotney Barber, Josh Dollard, Dewayne Reed and Rasheem Barrett. He got a true big man in 7-1 Boubacar Sylla.

Now that lineup is pretty good...until you remove Sylla, Barber and Dollard due to injuries and Douglas due to being an idiot.

And his 2008 class coming in next year includes two players who are only a tenth of a point away from being rated 4-stars on Rivals. One is a point guard who had offers from Tennessee, Virginia, Mississippi State and UAB.

It's easy to make excuse after excuse after excuse and say AU will be good "if and when". The fact is that other coaches -- Kennedy, Pearl, for example -- don't need to make them. When is immediately and there are no "ifs"

Again, because neither of them have faced anything even close to adversity. Hardly any injuries, no probation and no malcontent transfers. And yet, Lebo beat Pearl last year and came within an eyelash of beating Kennedy on the road. And now he's beaten Kennedy this year.

Immediately requires not getting waylaid with freakish problems...which is what Kennedy and Pearl have been fortunate enough not to deal with.

For the record, I don't actively root for Lebo to fail. In fact, I think he's a decent guy -- maybe a better assistant coach than a head coach, but -- and I wish him all the success in the world. I'd love for the basketball program to be a national force (so long as it doesn't detract from football's strength). But that's not what we've got right now and instead of progress, we get a different excuse every year.

Again, all based on nebulous feelings that don't stand up under more than a couple of minutes of critical examination. We can be a national force in b'ball. But not if we throw a guy under the bus for things beyond his control. Lebo will either be successful here given a chance with a full team, or he'll go somewhere else and be successful and we can try and attract whoever will take a chance on us and start this whole thing all over again. Yeah, that makes sense.

Insufferable post. Congrats.

Cutting it up into segments doesn't make it any more legitimate, but it's a nice exercise in time-wasting on your part.

You can make whatever excuses you want for Lebo. There are ALWAYS excuses. Winners win. Losers justify why they don't. Good to know which category you fall into. I'm curious to see what excuses you'll have next season. And the next. And the next.

If.. If... If...If...If...If....

[TitanTiger 20,471]

It's not my fault you settle for bumper sticker style, oversimplified answers. Let me know when you're ready to actually employ some thought on the matter.

[GalensGhost 0]

It's not my fault you settle for bumper sticker style, oversimplified answers. Let me know when you're ready to actually employ some thought on the matter.

It's not my fault that you're an enabler, willing to look for excuses and justifications while you continue to accept what can't even begin to qualify as mediocrity.

Ifs are great things, Titan. If I was a foot taller, I'd be an NBA baller. But instead of making excuses as to why I'm not, I went out and found something else to do.

You have to evaluate what IS, not some fantasy-laced what MIGHT BE.

[TitanTiger 20,471]

Funny. I am evaluating what is. You're evaluating what you think ought to be based on utterly non-applicable other scenarios.

It's cool. You popped off in frustration and didn't really give it a lot of analysis or thought. I get that. But the stubborn refusal to based your argument on actual facts is a tad silly.

I'm for giving Lebo next year with a full lineup. If he can't produce at that point, then I'd be ready to move on. But I'm not going to hold circumstances out of his control against him.;

[GalensGhost 0]

Funny. I am evaluating what is. You're evaluating what you think ought to be based on utterly non-applicable other scenarios.

It's cool. You popped off in frustration and didn't really give it a lot of analysis or thought. I get that. But the stubborn refusal to based your argument on actual facts is a tad silly.

I'm for giving Lebo next year with a full lineup. If he can't produce at that point, then I'd be ready to move on. But I'm not going to hold circumstances out of his control against him.;

No, I didn't pop off in anything. I've watched him over the past four years and every single year there's some new excuse.

You're evaluating on him on what you imagine he could do if, if, if, if, if, if. To borrow from Saban, it is what it is.

I've evaluated this discussion and come to the conclusion that Lebo must use Firefox. There's no other rational explanation for your defense.

[TitanTiger 20,471]

It's cute when you're so obviously ill-informed.

[SouthLink02 8]

Alright, we will trade you Felton for Lebo

[TitanTiger 20,471]

Oh hell no.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

As for who would be better, how the hell do we know? For all you know, I WOULD be better than Lebo. You might, too. How long do you accept this excuse and that excuse, this justification and that rationale? Is it

Maybe you would like Bobby Knight. He is the winningest coach in college BB so he meets the consistency test. Yet he is not doing so well at Texas Tech. He probably won't be in the Big Dance this year either.

I just think your expectations are to high for Auburn BB. We are never going to be a consistent contender no matter who the coach is. Kids just don't think of us as a basketball school. Rather than criticize Lebo, who was successful in his previous job, I would be more in favor of just dropping basketball altogether. Look at the money that would save. We wouldn't need a new arena.

Heck let's see if we can get the baseball program back on track.

[GalensGhost 0]

As for who would be better, how the hell do we know? For all you know, I WOULD be better than Lebo. You might, too. How long do you accept this excuse and that excuse, this justification and that rationale? Is it

Maybe you would like Bobby Knight. He is the winningest coach in college BB so he meets the consistency test. Yet he is not doing so well at Texas Tech. He probably won't be in the Big Dance this year either.

I just think your expectations are to high for Auburn BB. We are never going to be a consistent contender no matter who the coach is. Kids just don't think of us as a basketball school. Rather than criticize Lebo, who was successful in his previous job, I would be more in favor of just dropping basketball altogether. Look at the money that would save. We wouldn't need a new arena.

Heck let's see if we can get the baseball program back on track.

If you were going to abolish a sport, I'd pick basketball without any hesitation. I'd pull the trigger today.

And yeah, I'd defnintely take Bobby Knight. Off years are an anomaly for him.

[BZ770 2]

When Ellis was there we were a contender and all that Auburn BB fans want is a trip to the dance every 3 years or so, not a MNC. BTW on the rumors of the demise of Ellis I think it was a fabrication to get him out of there, because when he left all of the NCAA infractions were dropped, sounds like a scandal that never made it public.

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

When Ellis was there we were a contender and all that Auburn BB fans want is a trip to the dance every 3 years or so, not a MNC. BTW on the rumors of the demise of Ellis I think it was a fabrication to get him out of there, because when he left all of the NCAA infractions were dropped, sounds like a scandal that never made it public.

Post of the day. My thoughts exactly.

[TitanTiger 20,471]

When Ellis was there we were a contender and all that Auburn BB fans want is a trip to the dance every 3 years or so, not a MNC. BTW on the rumors of the demise of Ellis I think it was a fabrication to get him out of there, because when he left all of the NCAA infractions were dropped, sounds like a scandal that never made it public.

Post of the day. My thoughts exactly.

Um, no. The infractions were not dropped and were inherited by Lebo. We lost a scholarship in the 04-05 and 05-06 classes. And in basketball you often only sign 3-5 players a year, sometimes only two. That would be like losing anywhere from 5 to 8 football scholarships per year. And we also lost a 4th of our paid on-campus visits for recruits and 5 of our off campus evaluation visits for two years.

And the same thing happened on Ellis' watch at Clemson.

Whether you think he knew about it and looked the other way, or was asleep at the switch, you don't let major infractions hit your program twice. Much less at two separate schools.

[arnaldoabru 11]

How do yall do that single quote thing?

[BZ770 2]

I don't remember, but were those scholarship reductions voluntarily given up by Auburn, or were they imposed by the NCAA?

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

When Ellis was there we were a contender and all that Auburn BB fans want is a trip to the dance every 3 years or so, not a MNC. BTW on the rumors of the demise of Ellis I think it was a fabrication to get him out of there, because when he left all of the NCAA infractions were dropped, sounds like a scandal that never made it public.

Post of the day. My thoughts exactly.

Um, no. The infractions were not dropped and were inherited by Lebo. We lost a scholarship in the 04-05 and 05-06 classes. And in basketball you often only sign 3-5 players a year, sometimes only two. That would be like losing anywhere from 5 to 8 football scholarships per year. And we also lost a 4th of our paid on-campus visits for recruits and 5 of our off campus evaluation visits for two years.

And the same thing happened on Ellis' watch at Clemson.

Whether you think he knew about it and looked the other way, or was asleep at the switch, you don't let major infractions hit your program twice. Much less at two separate schools.

I never remember reading of specific allegation just that AU got scholarships taken away. They never said what he did exactly. Like did he pay players or something?

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

How do yall do that single quote thing?

Just click the quote button, after you click it you should see a red negative and then click "add reply".

Let me know if that helps you.

[TitanTiger 20,471]

I don't remember, but were those scholarship reductions voluntarily given up by Auburn, or were they imposed by the NCAA?

The NCAA report doesn't say anything about them being self-imposed by Auburn. It just shows them as part of the final verdict from the Committee on Infractions.

I never remember reading of specific allegation just that AU got scholarships taken away. They never said what he did exactly. Like did he pay players or something?

It says members of the men's basketball staff provided significant recruiting inducements either directly or indirectly through the members of a couple of AAU teams. The infractions at Clemson were improper recruiting inducements, improper recruiting transportation and unethical conduct. They also got the dreaded "lack of institutional control."

[BZ770 2]

Whatever these staff induced they had players like scottie polman, Mamadou, Chris Porter, and Marquis Daniels. I can't even tell you a great BB player we have had in the past 4 years. There must be at least 1 good player in the whole state of alabama that would like to come play ball at Auburn, that could make an impact on our team.

[WarTiger 3,896]

GG, I know you are smarter than this. All you've said repeatedly is how you are unhappy with lebo and "see" the problems. When are you going to step forward and tell us what should be done differently. It's really sad that you hold lebo responsible for the mess that was here when he was hired. It's also really sad that you hold lebo responsible for the injuries that this team has suffered over the years and particularly this year. This team has really good talent and when we get some of those players back from injury we will be a better team. I'm still waiting for you to tell us how to fix the problem and please be more creative than just saying fire lebo. I know you can do better than that. There isn't a coach anywhere in the country that would/could have done any better with the hand he was dealt. It's really unfortunate that you can't see that. You're turn...tell us how to fix the program since you see so much wrong with it. How do you correct the players leaving? How do you solve the injury problem? Newsflash there is no magic potion to prevent injuries. They happen.

[autigeremt 6,569]

The only loser in all this is you, Galen. For an Auburn man you sure don't get the full view of a program. I'm sorry, but you do not understand the hand that Lebo has been dealt, and you don't understand the game of basketball. You can DUMB and IDIOT til you are blue in the face, but there's no way you can justify your "he's a loser" mentality under the current circumstances. Coach Lebo has done a good job in spite off everything he's had to deal with. In four years he has brought Auburn off the deck and made them competitive, even when he's only got 6 scholarship players to suit up. They may not do what YOU or a few others EXPECT them to do, but considering you don't really CARE about the basketball program, why bother with it?

Auburn is not UNC or any of the other powers in college basketball.....YET! I think it will happen real soon. And it will happen with Jeff Lebo on the sideline, if we are lucky.

GG, if you could care less about basketball, then get out of this area all together and stick with football and rant a rave over there.

[GalensGhost 0]

The only loser in all this is you, Galen. For an Auburn man you sure don't get the full view of a program. I'm sorry, but you do not understand the hand that Lebo has been dealt, and you don't understand the game of basketball. You can DUMB and IDIOT til you are blue in the face, but there's no way you can justify your "he's a loser" mentality under the current circumstances. Coach Lebo has done a good job in spite off everything he's had to deal with. In four years he has brought Auburn off the deck and made them competitive, even when he's only got 6 scholarship players to suit up. They may not do what YOU or a few others EXPECT them to do, but considering you don't really CARE about the basketball program, why bother with it?

Auburn is not UNC or any of the other powers in college basketball.....YET! I think it will happen real soon. And it will happen with Jeff Lebo on the sideline, if we are lucky.

GG, if you could care less about basketball, then get out of this area all together and stick with football and rant a rave over there.

You can't read very well.

I said SLATER was a loser, not Lebo.

I don't CARE what the excuses are. It doesn't take four or five years to build a basketball team. It just doesn't. And that's the end of the story. You can apologize for him all you want to, but that's all there is. Four years into his tenure and we're still talking about not having enough players to practice and suiting up the waterboy and somebody's grandfather.

If you're happy with that, awesome. I've reached the point that I don't care at all about it. And I've always enjoyed watching AU basketball. I don't any longer. I just don't care. Judging by the attendance figures I'm not alone. I'd like to believe that Lebo is going to change that, but I just don't see it.

I've grown weary of the silly and redundant "why don't you coach the team" replies, too. As I explained you don't have to be a singer to know when somebody can't sing. You might not know what kind of training or help they might need to get their voice in tune, but you can certainly recognize when it isn't working. When you can explain to me how not being one of the top 96 teams in the country -- even if you have a one-legged midget playing forward -- is "doing great" then maybe you'll have a point. I never said "fire Lebo" either. I simply said that I'm not on his bandwagon. It's time for him to put up or shut up. No more excuses. If all you're going to do is wallow around with a new excuse every season, anybody can do that. You can't give the guy a freaking free pass every single year. At some point he's going to have to actually produce something other than another round of whining about how he doesn't have enough players to scrimmage and only has one scholarship player on the floor. Apparently you guys think yet another season is the cut-off. Whatever. Maybe four or five hundred fans will still be hanging on by then.

[PChamp119 96]

I agree with Galen. Everyone wants to point out to the bad luck Lebo has had recently. In the end it turns out to be a bunch of excuses. Grades / players getting in trouble are his problem. Players getting hurt, although he can not control it, are a part of the game. It's just like in football.

And trust me, I'm sure if UNC lost their top couple of players, they would still be a good team (a lot better than Auburn).

I'm not going to go as far off to say that I think Lebo is a bad coach. Because I think he is a good coach. But like GG had good examples with Pearl and others, other coaches seem to turn around programs quicker. Basketball is not football. You can turn around basketball a lot quicker than football. There are only a handful of players involved and the Xs and Os are not nearly as complicated as football. The NBA was having all time highs (until the last couple of years) of high school players entering the draft. Some of the best players are freshmen. So you can't use the youth and recruiting classes as another excuse to give it time. Basketball does not take as near the amount of development as football does. Not even close.

BTW, Ole Miss may not end up in the tourny. We don't know how good they really are. Remember Clemson last year? Didn't they start off like 18-0 and didn't even make it.

In the end, make up all the excuses you want, but that is all they are - excuses. You sound like a bunch of Bammers

[TitanTiger 20,471]

Under normal circumstances, I would totally agree. It doesn't take 4 years to build a program into a winner. But no matter how many comparisons you make to Bruce Pearl or Andy Kennedy or others like them, the big, glaring difference keeps coming back: none of them have dealt with even a teaspoon full of the problems Lebo has. Hand Pearl or Kennedy the ridiculous, out-of-their-control problems Lebo has been dealt and they'd be in the same boat. And people like you would be dumb enough to think they weren't good coaches, when in reality nothing was different about their coaching ability than it is right now.

There is a difference between excuses and reasons and you guys need to learn it. Just because someone takes the time to examine something other than a W-L column before spouting off uninformed opinions doesn't mean they are a bammer or making excuses.

If anything would make one a bammer, it would be the lack of critical thinking skills being displayed by the "Lebo sucks" crowd.