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Is it time for a serious conversation about Gun Control?


RunInRed

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I tell you, even as a staunch supporter of the 2nd Amendment, it's troubling that someone this disturbed could amass this kind of arsenal legally. My biggest criticism of most handgun and gun control initiatives is that they render law abiding citizens unarmed for criminals, who by definition don't give a s*** about your gun laws, to prey upon. But for what earthly reason does someone need an assault rifle like this?

Is there not some sort of very carefully crafted law that could keep this sort of weapon from being obtained easily by lunatics?

Agree. People in the U.S. act like we live in a war zone. I believe in the right to bear arms but not a F'kn stockpile. How many guns do people need? Hunting and handguns are fine but people don't need a boat load of those either. If people want to shot assault rifles go to the range or join the d#&n military. The military will let you shoot overseas all you want but those cowards will not do that b/c those people shoot back! They want to go shot up innocent people who can't protect themselves. I'm beyond pissed about this. No senseless killing is right but to go and shoot babies for target practice is some BS!

It's just a feeling but I think his mom got those guns mainly for her sons. What mom do you know is packing like that? Geesh...if they were mainly for her..she must have been some sort of spy or something! I feel and pray for ALL those parents and families of the faculty. Lord help us!

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I own a few guns, all hunting related. I guess some folks want to own the semi automatic but they are not for hunting. I do not own a handgun but am considering one for the personal protection. That said I don't think I would ever wear it to a movie theater. What gets me is the purchasing of the body armor. That is a huge red flag and I would think should only be sold to those in law enforcement. As said the problem with additional regulation is only law abiders would follow it.

Agree. That's certainly a red flag. Also buying a ton of ammunition at one time is a red flag. These guys had some serious ammunition stockpiled. IMO no one solution will solve this issue b/c it is clear that many of these mass killers would not have had an issue getting a gun even with harder restrictions b/c they didn't have a criminal record. Yes we can do backgrounds but several other things need to be combined to help slow this issue down.

There is NO reason why a civilian should have an assault rifle. If people want to shot one...go the the range or join the military. I don't like the idea of licensed gun owners taking guns into public places. True if someone at the movie theatre would've had a gun they could've shot that guy but I see worse things happening when people take guns in public places: More innocent people could be shot, Somone could mistake an innocent person for the real shooter; You have more bullets flying everywhere. Just don't like that idea.

However, I do think that schools and colleges need to no longer be gun free zones. These shooters go to schools and colleges b/c they know that there is no one there with a gun. They can kill as many as they wish...then kill themselves..only to have to police come after it is all over to count the bodies. I think ONLY 1 gun should be in every school and only be accessable to the Principle and Asst. Principle. Admin. and NOT teachers should have access to the gun and know where it is kept. It will not solve the entire problem but it can help b/c students are sitting ducks! Unless they start building schools like prisons....they will be a major risk of these shootings at schools.

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The guy purchased all his firearms & ammo legally and passed all background checks. He had no criminal record, not even a traffic ticket. He kept to himself and had no Facebook, twitter, etc. accounts. There was nothing from his outward appearance to indicate he had flipped out. The only indication anything was wrong was that he had recently had trouble in school passing some tests.

I'm curious to hear what "gun control" laws somebody thinks could have been put in place to prevent such a tragedy from happening.

True. That's my question too b/c many of the guys doing mass shootings have no criminal history. So the guy in CO, OR, & now CT still would've been able to get a gun; minus the CT guy b/c he wasn't old enough but as we know now he had access to some via his mother. So how are laws going to help with that? And the kid in OR who stole the guns he used?

I certainly don't have the answers b/c I only own 1 handgun for personal protection but have shot hunting rifles. I think that people who are experienced and have a long profession of being surrounded by guns should come up with some ideas. Nothing will stop it completely but no one should be spraying down and killing 10, 15, 20+ people with guns. Something has to be done. What else is it going to take for some kind of changes to be made?

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There's an evil cell within humanity, but small.

The members of the evil cell have access to easy weaponery in America.

The Bushmaster .223 found at the scene is a semi automatic weapon, the source says. Two other weapons found were handguns, a Sig-Sauer and a Glock.

The evil cell will ruin handguns for all of us.

The Government will never be able to get rid of guns...just like they can't get rid of drugs. It will only end up costing the taxpayers more money for a cause that can never be won. Period.

+1. I just don't get the need for semi-autos though. I get they are fun to shot and that there are more responsible owners than bad ones but I don't see the need for regular people to have assault weapons. IMO those should be at gun ranges and for the military. I don't know what the answers are but we need to do something b/c nothing will prevent things like this but if something could've been done to save half of the people in CO and CT...then that makes a difference to me. No one should be able to go on a crazy mass shooting spree..killing 10, 15, 20+ people. True people can make bombs with finding out how to do so online but they also risk blowingn themselves up if they don't do it right....I like that better than putting high powered guns in more unstable people's hands and having them just pull a trigger.

Fact is guns are not going anywhere and we have to figure out at the very least how we can better protect our kids at schools and colleges b/c those environments are sitting ducks for mass killings.

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I think a better solution would be to have on duty police at all schools, even elementary schools during school hours. Most of the recent shootings have taken place in "gun free zones".

Also, Connecticut already has strict gun laws.

In 2011, Connecticut was rated the fifth toughest by the pro-gun control Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence on a scorecard which gave points for each restriction the group favors.

http://www.dailynews...est-in-the-u-s/

On duty police at all schools is just not feasible. Especially when you consider that such an event as the one which happened today GENERALLY happens maybe once a decade (though moreso recently it seems). Putting a cop on station at an elementary school in a town which hasn't had something like this happen during its entire existence is just unrealistic.

Agree. That's just not realistic and the fist thing schools will say is that they can't afford it. When i was in high school we had an "resource" officer...basically a city police officer who had a desk to meet people coming into the school and ask them what they were there for. It lasted maybe through 1/3 of the school year b/c he didn't have anything else to do...it was a waste of his time as a policeman and for the city. It's not feasible to have a policeman or rental cop at EVERY school..just isn't.

My suggestion would to be to train the school's principle and/or assistant principle or a P.E. teacher to either carry or have access to only 1 gun that would be in each school. I don't think teachers should have guns in the classroom..too dangerous. But if 2 or 3 Admins have access and know where the gun is located it may could help detur and cut down on some deaths if a situation should occur. These guys go to schools b/c they know no one there will have a gun.

You can put in all the cameras, buzzers and medal detectors you want in schools but if a person with a gun wants to get in that school...they will...esp. if no one else has a gun. If people know schools are armed with at least one gun...they may think twice. It's like when people get security systems and put the sign in their yard...it may not prevent a burglar 100% but does lessen the odds and make some think twice before entering your home. Better yet get a sign that says I'm a PROUD gun owner and will not hesitate to use it...see if they try to break in then! This may not be the best solution but we have to do something. What's going to be next? Those were BABIES!

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Making the sale of guns and ammo illegal would not help. People who want guns will still get them. The only people who won't have guns are the law abiding citizens. The criminals will have guns. Is that what we want? Maybe we should concentrate on teaching people right from wrong. Let's put a value back on human life. Let's take a look at all of the video games that encourage the killing of people. Let's get these video games out of our kid's hands. This guy was described as a tecno nerd and a video gamer. Guns are not the problem. People and today's society are the problem. It's time to clean up society.

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While it would be nice to rid the society of crazy people, it is not a likely event.

Some common sensical things would be to require all gun shows to require permit checks before a sale. Even some of those wonderful law abiding gentlemen have no problem skirting the law in the name of doing what they think is right.

Precautions can be taken, it will not eliminate the mentally ill, if we are to have the gun laws we have, sick people are going to occasionally act out.

The comparisions to Hitler and other assorted non-sense, is just that. Non-sense.

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I agree with what someone else has posted already in this thread. Have two to three people in each school go through regular mandatory firearm training with handguns and AR-15 type weaponry, and place a sign in front of the school indicating that a licensed expert is on the grounds at all times and will kill an attacker.

Also, these video games that A4E spoke of need to go. It desensitizes the people who play them to violence against others with how real and how graphic they are. It all starts in the home though.

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To the people trying to straw man the guns are dangerous argument, do you really believe that the madman in this case would have killed 20 kids with rope or his bare hands?

A guy in China stabbed and killed 22 not too long ago. My point is that you can't just single out the use of guns as the problem. It's a much broader issue. It's people in general that are the problem. You can blame a number of things. TV, video games, the news. I mean every time you turn on the TV something is going on somewhere. Whether it be shootings, stabbings, people blowing up buildings, flying planes into buildings, to people eating other peoples faces off due to drugs. Guns ARE a method of killing, but there's thousands of other ways too and if people are crazy enough to carry out such a horrendous act they would find any way possible to do it. You can mix bleach and ammonia together and put off a toxic gas that could kill hundreds of people. I just tend to believe this is a learned behavior due to the society we currently live in. It's not the one I grew up in where most people knew right from wrong and respected their fellow man and his life.

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You can not legislate morality, nor is a gun anything more than a means to an end, even some model coined 'Peace-Maker'. We can all site studies attempting some show of what happened in Australia, Switzerland, or England. Lord knows we've seen these same, each used to support all manner of contention, both pro and con over-and-over - ad-nauseum - infinitum.

It just seems (IHMO no stats) that if truly the-time fit the-crime. then armed non-passion of crime might more ably be term premeditation. That by virtue of merely having a firearm in possession during commission of any crime, that an intent to take a life had already been considered. Perhaps we need to get more serious about removing the gun from the crime, than we are about removing the gun from society, because that task has proven to be almost impossible in practice.

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I agree with what someone else has posted already in this thread. Have two to three people in each school go through regular mandatory firearm training with handguns and AR-15 type weaponry, and place a sign in front of the school indicating that a licensed expert is on the grounds at all times and will kill an attacker.

Also, these video games that A4E spoke of need to go. It desensitizes the people who play them to violence against others with how real and how graphic they are. It all starts in the home though.

+1

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Making the sale of guns and ammo illegal would not help. People who want guns will still get them. The only people who won't have guns are the law abiding citizens. The criminals will have guns. Is that what we want? Maybe we should concentrate on teaching people right from wrong. Let's put a value back on human life. Let's take a look at all of the video games that encourage the killing of people. Let's get these video games out of our kid's hands. This guy was described as a tecno nerd and a video gamer. Guns are not the problem. People and today's society are the problem. It's time to clean up society.

+1 this without a doubt is the only EFFECTIVE way to slow the current trend.

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It's funny how these "nuts" keep choosing targets that prohibit concealed weapons and other deterrents or resistance. In addition, locations that maximize casualties and response time from law enforcement. Must be a big ole coincidence.

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This: http://en.wikipedia...._in_Switzerland

Imagine an entire country on the border of Germany, with no army and Hitler elects not to invade.

Also, note the extraordinarily low incidence of gun crime.

What do you know of mountain combat? In that time period no less...kiss Blitz option goodbye. It would have taken forever to pull off especially with what Germany was already involved in. No army? Try a very well trained and mobilized militia. Imagine that, a well regulated militia...

Also, I believe there were economic conditions behind the scenes at work there as well.

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Morgan Freeman's statement about these random shootings....

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you kn ow the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

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I agree with what someone else has posted already in this thread. Have two to three people in each school go through regular mandatory firearm training with handguns and AR-15 type weaponry, and place a sign in front of the school indicating that a licensed expert is on the grounds at all times and will kill an attacker.

Also, these video games that A4E spoke of need to go. It desensitizes the people who play them to violence against others with how real and how graphic they are. It all starts in the home though.

Yeah that would be more feasible than having on duty police. I was just throwing that out there instead of going along with the media drum beat of more gun-control.

That would probably be the best way. Have a a few teachers that are trained on how to use handguns. It would be the most efficient and affective way to help protect schools.

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I said after that mall shooting the other day if they keep publicizing this SOBs name, there's going to be more and more of this stuff. Imagine all of these punks dying to make a name for themselves.

Also, I hate to jump on the anti-video game bandwagon but I have to. I worked for a company that deals primarily with that for 6 years. I saw parents come in and buy the most horrific games for their kids despite being advised not to. games like Manhunt, call of Duty Modern Warfare 2..

if you are out of the loop about such things, imagine 6, 7, 8 year olds playing this game:

(WARNING DO NOT WATCH AROUND KIDS, ETC--HORRIFIC VIOLENCE DISPLAYED IN A GAME)

And the parents being completely ok with it. Giving excuses like "oh he's good at these games! He loves them! He'll play them over his friends house anyways!"

Please do not think I am trying to derail the subject. I just think there is a LOT to the whole desensitizing theory. Also, I do NOT (repeat DO NOT) agree with any kind of censorship of video games. If this is a game an adult wants to play, by all means have at it. I just wish children to be exposed to games like this was held as serious as showing porn or giving alcohol to them.

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I said after that mall shooting the other day if they keep publicizing this SOBs name, there's going to be more and more of this stuff. Imagine all of these punks dying to make a name for themselves.

Also, I hate to jump on the anti-video game bandwagon but I have to. I worked for a company that deals primarily with that for 6 years. I saw parents come in and buy the most horrific games for their kids despite being advised not to. games like Manhunt, call of Duty Modern Warfare 2..

if you are out of the loop about such things, imagine 6, 7, 8 year olds playing this game:

And the parents being completely ok with it.

Please do not think I am trying to derail the subject. I just think there is a LOT to the whole desensitizing theory. Also, I do NOT (repeat DO NOT) agree with any kind of censorship of video games. If this is a game an adult wants to play, by all means have at it. I just wish showing things like the game above to children was held as serious as showing porn or giving alcohol to them.

I completely agree. Young people have access to WAY too much material these days. While I'm not a proponent of sheltering your kids, there are some things that just don't belong in the minds of kids. Sadly, there are more kids having kids. Another sad thing is the Government and today's culture seem to embrace that. When I was growing up, it was considered taboo or shameful to be a teen mom. Nowadays its mainstream. Advocate sex because it sells. The idea of abortion plants ideas of no consequences to kids in reguards to pregnancy. Same could be said in regards to these killings, these type of people seem to be idolized or made celebrities from their actions.

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I said after that mall shooting the other day if they keep publicizing this SOBs name, there's going to be more and more of this stuff. Imagine all of these punks dying to make a name for themselves.

Also, I hate to jump on the anti-video game bandwagon but I have to. I worked for a company that deals primarily with that for 6 years. I saw parents come in and buy the most horrific games for their kids despite being advised not to. games like Manhunt, call of Duty Modern Warfare 2..

if you are out of the loop about such things, imagine 6, 7, 8 year olds playing this game:

(WARNING DO NOT WATCH AROUND KIDS, ETC--HORRIFIC VIOLENCE DISPLAYED IN A GAME)

And the parents being completely ok with it. Giving excuses like "oh he's good at these games! He loves them! He'll play them over his friends house anyways!"

Please do not think I am trying to derail the subject. I just think there is a LOT to the whole desensitizing theory. Also, I do NOT (repeat DO NOT) agree with any kind of censorship of video games. If this is a game an adult wants to play, by all means have at it. I just wish children to be exposed to games like this was held as serious as showing porn or giving alcohol to them.

A parent ought to be put in jail for buying their child this trash. Moronic parenting at its worst.
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This country is so about profit above all that they will allow anything .

If you don't think I am right you are only kidding yourself.

Hide behind the Right to Bear Arms and you will not consider what is right for your country.

The right to bear arms is sacred to us as a free people and I support it.

There is however a huge difference between a deer rifle, 5 round shot gun, revolver or short clip authomatic and .

full automatic M 16, 14, AK 47 and 30 round clips, etc.

Those assault weapons are for soldiers, the law and nut jobs who want a high body count.

But, we will make them cause we can sell them on the border and on the street.

All I am saying is this, as long as you allow access to those weapons in the general population expect more of the tragedies

we have seen of late.

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Good comments everyone. Unfortunately the cultural problem is extensive. Parenting is terribly lacking in the last few decades. The primary impulse has been to cede God given parental responsibility to the state and other institutions (church, day care etc). The state doesn't educate or protect particularly well. Frankly, it's much easier to focus on some external "nut cases" and gun control rather than address the real cultural problems. They involve all of us.

Porcupine tree made a great album 5 years ago. I guess its dark in light of current events, but artistically well done and highlights the harsh truth: http://www.amazon.co... planet Anyone else a fan?

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That COD 2 clip was disturbing. And I play a LOT of 1st person military type stuff. Never seen that sort of violence portrayed on civilians like that though.

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There is however a huge difference between a deer rifle, 5 round shot gun, revolver or short clip authomatic and .

full automatic M 16, 14, AK 47 and 30 round clips, etc.

Those assault weapons are for soldiers, the law and nut jobs who want a high body count.

But, we will make them cause we can sell them on the border and on the street.

The kid killed all of those children with pistols from what I read and left the rifle in his mom's car. One incident, I realize, however it puts holes in the "get rid of big guns theory". (If that info was correct)

Also..I thought fully automatic weapons were already illegal. (?) My problem with making this gun illegal or that gun illegal is that it opens the door to make every gun illegal. I don't want to be playing around that slippery slope. One man can kill just as many if not more people with 2 pistols as a different guy carrying ak-47s.

Hell, wasn't the body count higher in CT than in CO? Look at the firepower difference.

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