Herbie

[ausewell14 0]

While I enjoy listening to Kirk talk college football, his argument for not looking at SOS isn't valid at all. Just watched dvr'd BCS cntdwn and he said looking at Boise state as a team and not just at their SOS. My question is that how would AU have faired thus far with Boise St schedule and would everyone be saying the same thing about AU that they are saying about Boise St. This could have already been brought up, just was on my mind! WDE!

[AUFan1 0]

Don't worry about it. After we hang 50 plus on UGAY and bammer, and set fire to the Jawja dome with our O, we are gonna destroy the other team in the BCSCG. After we win we should all send Herby a note with the words made famous by Rod Bramblett "Put that in your BCS pipe and smoke it"

[ausewell14 0]

Good point! War Eagle!

[milehighfan 1,208]

I was talking to a friend of mine at work here in Denver. The first thing he menitoned to me is Auburn fell from #1 in BCS poll. I replied, it doesn't matter as long as they keep winning and stay at  least #2, they will play for the MNC. Still a long way to go, but I like the fight in this team.

[StatTiger 3,146]

While I enjoy listening to Kirk talk college football, his argument for not looking at SOS isn't valid at all. Just watched dvr'd BCS cntdwn and he said looking at Boise state as a team and not just at their SOS. My question is that how would AU have faired thus far with Boise St schedule and would everyone be saying the same thing about AU that they are saying about Boise St. This could have already been brought up, just was on my mind! WDE!

All you have to do is recall Kirk Turdstreits comments back in 2004, when he was overly critical of Auburn's game against Citadel. Did he take the time to look at Auburn as a "team" during 2004 in the same manner he currently views Boise State? NOT EVEN CLOSE.  When Auburn defeated Alabama 21-13 in 2004, he was critical of Auburn skating by a "down" Alabama team.  BUT...... when USC struggled to get past a weak UCLA team he justified it because it was a rivalry game.    What the heck did he consider the Iron Bowl? Anyone remember the comments he made about Auburn before we played Georgia in 2004? He stated if we won that game, we deserved to be in the show. Not only did AU win that game, they dominated Georgia, 24-6. It took Kirk one week to throw Auburn back under the bus.

This is why I did not like Kirk then and why I don't like him now. He's hypocritical beyond imagination, which makes it difficult to value any opinion he brings to the table. 

[guerra aguila 0]

Auburn will be fine.

[rollsroyce5 0]

While I enjoy listening to Kirk talk college football, his argument for not looking at SOS isn't valid at all. Just watched dvr'd BCS cntdwn and he said looking at Boise state as a team and not just at their SOS. My question is that how would AU have faired thus far with Boise St schedule and would everyone be saying the same thing about AU that they are saying about Boise St. This could have already been brought up, just was on my mind! WDE!

All you have to do is recall Kirk Turdstreits comments back in 2004, when he was overly critical of Auburn's game against Citadel. Did he take the time to look at Auburn as a "team" during 2004 in the same manner he currently views Boise State? NOT EVEN CLOSE.  When Auburn defeated Alabama 21-13 in 2004, he was critical of Auburn skating by a "down" Alabama team.  BUT...... when USC struggled to get past a weak UCLA team he justified it because it was a rivalry game.    What the heck did he consider the Iron Bowl? Anyone remember the comments he made about Auburn before we played Georgia in 2004? He stated if we won that game, we deserved to be in the show. Not only did AU win that game, they dominated Georgia, 24-6. It took Kirk one week to throw Auburn back under the bus.

This is why I did not like Kirk then and why I don't like him now. He's hypocritical beyond imagination, which makes it difficult to value any opinion he brings to the table. 

Yeah all of that was horrible but I think the most egregious offense was he and Corso slamming us after the SECCG and beating UT by only 10! Slamming us for giving up 28 points to a team that won, I believe, 10 games with 2 of their 3 losses coming from us!

[Ed_ 3]

Now that is a question I would like to have Finebaum ask Herbstreit on Wednesday.  If Herbie wants to say he's evaluating based on the "perceived quality" of a team without regards to SOS then that's his prerogative but if he flip flops on the issue he should be held accountable. 

Stat, I've been giving a lot of people grief for ranting about the media lately but that is the first really persuasive argument I've heard for a legitimate grievance. Well done sir. 

[taylojo 0]

IMO: ESPN/NIKE/etc.... want NCAA FB to be a version of WWF/WWE.  Since they can't control the actual competition, they control public perception.  Very profitable business model.  Herb is just toeing the line.

[Ed_ 3]

Stat, I hope you don't mind but I coopted part of your post and went ahead and created that email to Finebaum to see if he will actually question Herbie about it.  In case anyone's interested I've included the email below.

Good Morning Paul,

I know Herbstreit doesn’t take calls for your weekly segment so I was hoping that I could get you to post a question to him.  I know that you guys probably arrange talking points ahead of time and that it is unlikely he would address this but I figured it is worth a shot.

Herbstreit has made it very clear through his ESPN commentary and on your show that he thinks is the best/most complete team in the nation additionally he mentioned in his interview with you last week that he is basing that assertion on the watching the team and ignoring the SOS because “he knows how to spot a good football team”.

While I have no problem with an analyst taking that position since based on the craziness of our current system each analyst really has to come up with their own evaluation method.  My complaint though comes in his not applying that standard consistently.  In 2004 he was extremely critical of Auburn’s game with Citadel and said that played into his decision to go with USCw and Oklahoma for the National Championship Game.  The same year he was also critical of Auburn for “skating by” a down Alabama team but when USC struggled to get past a weak UCLA team he justified it as being understandable because it was a “rivalry game” but I would ask what does he consider the Iron Bowl?

From my view it appears that Herb has a habit of changing his criteria to suite how he would like things to turn out and I would like to hear how he would respond/defend this accusation. 

Thanks for your consideration on this and I hope to hear it referenced in your next interview with him.

Best regards,

Ed

[styxfan34 0]

Stat, I hope you don't mind but I coopted part of your post and went ahead and created that email to Finebaum to see if he will actually question Herbie about it.  In case anyone's interested I've included the email below.

Good Morning Paul,

I know Herbstreit doesn’t take calls for your weekly segment so I was hoping that I could get you to post a question to him.  I know that you guys probably arrange talking points ahead of time and that it is unlikely he would address this but I figured it is worth a shot.

Herbstreit has made it very clear through his ESPN commentary and on your show that he thinks is the best/most complete team in the nation additionally he mentioned in his interview with you last week that he is basing that assertion on the watching the team and ignoring the SOS because “he knows how to spot a good football team”.

While I have no problem with an analyst taking that position since based on the craziness of our current system each analyst really has to come up with their own evaluation method.  My complaint though comes in his not applying that standard consistently.  In 2004 he was extremely critical of Auburn’s game with Citadel and said that played into his decision to go with USCw and Oklahoma for the National Championship Game.  The same year he was also critical of Auburn for “skating by” a down Alabama team but when USC struggled to get past a weak UCLA team he justified it as being understandable because it was a “rivalry game” but I would ask what does he consider the Iron Bowl?

From my view it appears that Herb has a habit of changing his criteria to suite how he would like things to turn out and I would like to hear how he would respond/defend this accusation. 

Thanks for your consideration on this and I hope to hear it referenced in your next interview with him.

Best regards,

Ed

love it

[Rednilla 5,092]

While I enjoy listening to Kirk talk college football, his argument for not looking at SOS isn't valid at all. Just watched dvr'd BCS cntdwn and he said looking at Boise state as a team and not just at their SOS. My question is that how would AU have faired thus far with Boise St schedule and would everyone be saying the same thing about AU that they are saying about Boise St. This could have already been brought up, just was on my mind! WDE!

Actually, I agree with him on that point. I mean, if you're only going by SOS, then what is Boise really playing for? Do they genuinely have a chance at winning the ultimate prize, or are we simply messing with them by dangling the chance to play for it all just high enough that they can't reach, no matter what they do?

Now, I am an Auburn Tiger through and through, but I am also an Auburn man, and as such I must be honest and truthful, even with myself, if I hope for my opinion to be respected. As such, quite honestly, I think Boise deserves a shot to play for it all, because Kirk is right: on the field, they appear to be the best all around team in the country, because they don't appear to have any soft spots. Of course the SOS should be considered, as well, because playing tougher opponents week in and week out gives greater opportunity to have soft spots exposed, but that should not be the only justification. I mean, following that logic, the SEC Champion should just play the best of the rest every year to determine the best in the country, because no one faces the competition that we do from top to bottom of the league.

It's a mess. It really is. There is no clear cut way to determine which two teams deserve it the most right now.

That's what makes it so beautiful.

[87aubie 0]

While I enjoy listening to Kirk talk college football, his argument for not looking at SOS isn't valid at all. Just watched dvr'd BCS cntdwn and he said looking at Boise state as a team and not just at their SOS. My question is that how would AU have faired thus far with Boise St schedule and would everyone be saying the same thing about AU that they are saying about Boise St. This could have already been brought up, just was on my mind! WDE!

Actually, I agree with him on that point. I mean, if you're only going by SOS, then what is Boise really playing for? Do they genuinely have a chance at winning the ultimate prize, or are we simply messing with them by dangling the chance to play for it all just high enough that they can't reach, no matter what they do?

Now, I am an Auburn Tiger through and through, but I am also an Auburn man, and as such I must be honest and truthful, even with myself, if I hope for my opinion to be respected. As such, quite honestly, I think Boise deserves a shot to play for it all, because Kirk is right: on the field, they appear to be the best all around team in the country, because they don't appear to have any soft spots. Of course the SOS should be considered, as well, because playing tougher opponents week in and week out gives greater opportunity to have soft spots exposed, but that should not be the only justification. I mean, following that logic, the SEC Champion should just play the best of the rest every year to determine the best in the country, because no one faces the competition that we do from top to bottom of the league.

It's a mess. It really is. There is no clear cut way to determine which two teams deserve it the most right now.

That's what makes it so beautiful.

Red, if AU played LaMo 10 times, would we appear to have any soft spots??  I think not.  It's hard to evaluate a team's "perceived goodness" without giving some consideration to their opponents.  I'm not saying BSU isn't a good team.  They are.  And they present a tough challenge to the BCSers because they typically win when they play a good team.  But the "they look like a good team" argument is purely subjective and, IMO, a terrible one absent any SoS context.

[WinForAuburn 123]

I wish someone would ask Kirk if he thinks South Car. is better than Bama.  When he says no, ask him how thats possible.  He will paint himself into a corner trying to explain how hard it is to go through the SEC without loseing.

Also ask him how many teams in the country would be undefeated right now if they played the schedule of BSU.

I'm gonna say no less than 20. 

You can't throw out SOS Herbie..you just can't do it.

[Rednilla 5,092]

Red, if AU played LaMo 10 times, would we appear to have any soft spots??  I think not.  It's hard to evaluate a team's "perceived goodness" without giving some consideration to their opponents.  I'm not saying BSU isn't a good team.  They are.  And they present a tough challenge to the BCSers because they typically win when they play a good team.  But the "they look like a good team" argument is purely subjective and, IMO, a terrible one absent any SoS context.

Of course the SOS should be considered, as well, because playing tougher opponents week in and week out gives greater opportunity to have soft spots exposed, but that should not be the only justification. I mean, following that logic, the SEC Champion should just play the best of the rest every year to determine the best in the country, because no one faces the competition that we do from top to bottom of the league.

I'm not saying that Boise is the best team in the country, I'm saying they appear to be. I get the feeling that Herbstreit is saying these things not necessarily because he believes that's all there is but because he has to drive the point home in order for it to get through to the vast majority of college football fans who cheer for a team in one of the major conferences.

And come on, what more do you want from them? What will it take to make you say, okay, maybe they deserve a shot at it? If they run the table, that will be four out of five years that they've gone undefeated.

Guys, right now, no, I don't think they deserve to be in the game. And if Auburn and Oregon both win out, I don't see any chance of it. However, I do think that they should get prime consideration if either team falls.

[telling tiger 156]

Not pushing for either team here, BUT, TCU is at the moment ranked ahead of Boise. The defense had been all but shutting down their opposition. The same argument can be made for the Frogs. I still think that argument is bogus. Wake me up when they have a schedule.

[gr82b4au 5,534]

Well he did vote us # 2 this week (up 1 spot). If we win out, we are in. It is that simple. At that point it will not matter anymore.

War Eagle.

[herktiger 0]

Personally, I think Boise State should join a real conference with real competition throughout the season and establish themselves in that type of environment.  Playing a couple of stronger OOC teams every year and winning and then hanging your hat on those wins as if they prove invincibility is pretty disingenuous.  I think at least half the teams in the SEC and a third of the teams in the Big 10, Big 12, and Pac 10 could go undefeated with a schedule where (like BSU) they can prep all fall camp for their first "big" game, play a bunch of sick sisters for several weaks while they prep for the next "tough" game, and then MAYBE play one more to finish out the season...and then start crying that they get no respect.  They did beat a very good TCU team in their bowl game last year.  But I would suggest that was much as a result of scrimmaging most of the season and incurring very few injuries.  I honestly don't think they want to be in a big-time conference since I suspect they had a prime opportunity this past summer when the Pac 10 and Big 12 were in flux.  I think they realize it would expose them as a very good, but not great, team AND they can make a lot more hay by shamelessly crying about the inequities toward them every year they go undefeated and don't get into the NC game.  I hope they get their chance to whine again this year!  War Eagle!

[Wreglegirl 0]

I personally think that all of the ESPN talking heads that are pushing BS so much have an agenda - to try and force playoffs. In fact I have heard Gene W. on the ESPN College podcast admit that he wants BS and TCU to play for the national championship because it would force a playoff system. And who would benefit from a playoff system - ESPN. They might not get the championship game but they would probably carry all of the other games up to that point and get all of the advertising dollars.

[SKIPPER 0]

While I enjoy listening to Kirk talk college football, his argument for not looking at SOS isn't valid at all. Just watched dvr'd BCS cntdwn and he said looking at Boise state as a team and not just at their SOS. My question is that how would AU have faired thus far with Boise St schedule and would everyone be saying the same thing about AU that they are saying about Boise St. This could have already been brought up, just was on my mind! WDE!

Actually, I agree with him on that point. I mean, if you're only going by SOS, then what is Boise really playing for? Do they genuinely have a chance at winning the ultimate prize, or are we simply messing with them by dangling the chance to play for it all just high enough that they can't reach, no matter what they do?

Now, I am an Auburn Tiger through and through, but I am also an Auburn man, and as such I must be honest and truthful, even with myself, if I hope for my opinion to be respected. As such, quite honestly, I think Boise deserves a shot to play for it all, because Kirk is right: on the field, they appear to be the best all around team in the country, because they don't appear to have any soft spots. Of course the SOS should be considered, as well, because playing tougher opponents week in and week out gives greater opportunity to have soft spots exposed, but that should not be the only justification. I mean, following that logic, the SEC Champion should just play the best of the rest every year to determine the best in the country, because no one faces the competition that we do from top to bottom of the league.

It's a mess. It really is. There is no clear cut way to determine which two teams deserve it the most right now.

That's what makes it so beautiful.

Boise should join a BCS conference. If not, and they get the opportunity to play for National Championships, then what is the benefit for playing in a tough conference?......That is the question that should be asked to Kirk.

[AUSWEN 0]

Every time they bring up the conversation it goes down the same road. Everyone knows that those three teams have noting to stand on for SOS, period. They all agree that their schedules are a joke and that they always will be that way until they join a real conference. Then, the pivotal question is this: If they don't play anyone and never will, then why even have them in the conversation? The answer they have is that you can't just tell these teams that they have no shot and that they might as well not play.......... but in my opinion that is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! If the goal of the National Championship game is to find the best team in the nation, and these teams don't play anyone so that they can PROVE that they are the best team, then they absolutely deserve NO shot at the title, period. Tell them they can't have it, ever, and maybe then they will get the point. The point isn't whether they may be a good team or not, it's whether they have PROVEN that they are, and they will never have a chance to truly do that.

Maybe I'm extreme on this subject, but if Boise won out and somehow got to the championship game, and WON it, i would not personally acknowledge them as the best team. Even if they get there and win, in my opinion it is still not fair to the OTHER team, because Boise has gone through an entire season of practice games while an SEC school has gotten the crap beaten out of them every week. A stat I would love to see is the number of injuries on a typical SEC team compared to Boise. I bet they have less than half.

[AUBwins 9,506]

Stat, I hope you don't mind but I coopted part of your post and went ahead and created that email to Finebaum to see if he will actually question Herbie about it.  In case anyone's interested I've included the email below.

Good Morning Paul,

I know Herbstreit doesn’t take calls for your weekly segment so I was hoping that I could get you to post a question to him.  I know that you guys probably arrange talking points ahead of time and that it is unlikely he would address this but I figured it is worth a shot.

Herbstreit has made it very clear through his ESPN commentary and on your show that he thinks (?) is the best/most complete team in the nation additionally he mentioned in his interview with you last week that he is basing that assertion on the watching the team and ignoring the SOS because “he knows how to spot a good football team”.

While I have no problem with an analyst taking that position since based on the craziness of our current system each analyst really has to come up with their own evaluation method.  My complaint though comes in his not applying that standard consistently.  In 2004 he was extremely critical of Auburn’s game with Citadel and said that played into his decision to go with USCw and Oklahoma for the National Championship Game.  The same year he was also critical of Auburn for “skating by” a down Alabama team but when USC struggled to get past a weak UCLA team he justified it as being understandable because it was a “rivalry game” but I would ask what does he consider the Iron Bowl?

From my view it appears that Herb has a habit of changing his criteria to suite how he would like things to turn out and I would like to hear how he would respond/defend this accusation. 

Thanks for your consideration on this and I hope to hear it referenced in your next interview with him.

Best regards,

Ed

I don't know if you left this out in your actual email but you never mentioned Boise State in the email.  Don't want Finebaum to have an excuse not to ask this.  

[Rednilla 5,092]

Boise should join a BCS conference. If not, and they get the opportunity to play for National Championships, then what is the benefit for playing in a tough conference?......That is the question that should be asked to Kirk.

Tis an excellent question...but I think the Mountain West (which is where they will be next year) should be a BCS conference, to be honest. I'd put the MWC up there with the Big East, at least, maybe even the ACC.

[Bunn1 0]

The truth of it is that they don't have to join a real conference to prove it. I mean, look at Troy, last year they played Florida and Arkansas. the year before that, they played Ohio St, LSU, and Oklahoma st. The difference is that Troy is willing to do what Boise is not(because Boise thinks they are on the same level as AQ BCS teams). And that is go play these tough schools at their home. They(BCS schools) will play them at home Guaranteed! (there is no need for a home and home until they prove they are worthy). The monetary justification for playing Boise at Boise can not be made for a school that has on average 70000-100000 in tickets sales. And any team that plays Boise at a neutral site has bought into the bogus argument that they should evenly split revenue with an inferior program that has not, let me repeat that, HAS NOT proven themselves worthy of such a position. If I am wrong, then Boise should fire their AD and hire Troy's today. Otherwise they need to grow a pair and play the big boys at their own houses and show the country that they DESERVE to be included. Until they do, leave the con artists out. If they do that, I will be the first to say way to go and good luck.

[telling tiger 156]

Every time they bring up the conversation it goes down the same road. Everyone knows that those three teams have noting to stand on for SOS, period. They all agree that their schedules are a joke and that they always will be that way until they join a real conference. Then, the pivotal question is this: If they don't play anyone and never will, then why even have them in the conversation? The answer they have is that you can't just tell these teams that they have no shot and that they might as well not play.......... but in my opinion that is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! If the goal of the National Championship game is to find the best team in the nation, and these teams don't play anyone so that they can PROVE that they are the best team, then they absolutely deserve NO shot at the title, period. Tell them they can't have it, ever, and maybe then they will get the point. The point isn't whether they may be a good team or not, it's whether they have PROVEN that they are, and they will never have a chance to truly do that.

Maybe I'm extreme on this subject, but if Boise won out and somehow got to the championship game, and WON it, i would not personally acknowledge them as the best team. Even if they get there and win, in my opinion it is still not fair to the OTHER team, because Boise has gone through an entire season of practice games while an SEC school has gotten the crap beaten out of them every week. A stat I would love to see is the number of injuries on a typical SEC team compared to Boise. I bet they have less than half.

I truthfully believe they have entered NCAA play in the wrong division.