Is Loeffler to blame? BVG Really?

[guerra aguila 0]

Not even a full year to recruit players that will benefit his offensive schemes and we want to fire him?

Chizik made a tough decision to move to the Pro Style vs the No Huddle fast tempo offense and he had to know that it would come with issues.

Auburn is bad, they are perhaps 2008 bad... but Chizik is not in meltdown mode. The fans are.

Tuberville freaked out and fired offensive coordinator Tony Franklin after 4 games. Whether it be pressure from the higher ups, or just Tubs himself, Franklin never got a fair shot. In 10 years Tuberville faced 6 top 5 teams... In a four year span Gene Chizik has already faced 6 top five teams . This year alone he has had to face three top 20 teams and Auburn isnt even at the half way mark on the schedule. I kudos him for the level of competition that he has endured.

Now Auburn is in a similar light, lets blame the first year coordinators, its their fault, they should make the most of their situation.

Well in 2007 Nick Saban went 6-7 in his first year as a head coach at Alabama... so I guess he should have been fired then?

I understand that fans are upset with Chizik, but perhaps its his fault, not the assistant coaches. Vangorder is a hell of a hire for Auburn, and I think with the proper time, Loeffler can develop Frazier into a very good quarterback.

Ill be blunt.

This is whats going to happen...

Chizik will be back in 2013... hate to bust yalls ever hating bubble.

Loeffler's offense will settle down and become potent

VanGorders defense will only get better... they continue to get better every week, but the offense cant continue the lack of ability to sustain drives.

Last but not least... Kiehl Frazier will be a house hold name before he leaves Auburn, and the Haters will love him once again. It is funny how that works out.

Chizik deserves one more year... so do the respective coordinators... the identity will be set and their schemes will be in place.

At the end of of 2013 if we are still having this discussion... we know what happens next.

[AuKyle06 0]

I just don't see it. CSL seems way in over his head. Frazier may develop one day but he isn't there mentally. Our Defense is getting better but Chizik just doesn't seem to have a grasp of things overall.

[DiamondencrustedBen 0]

Frazier's already a household name, only as the biggest joke ever.

[AUPAC 0]

Not even a full year to recruit players that will benefit his offensive schemes and we want to fire him?

Chizik made a tough decision to move to the Pro Style vs the No Huddle fast tempo offense and he had to know that it would come with issues.

Auburn is bad, they are perhaps 2008 bad... but Chizik is not in meltdown mode. The fans are.

Tuberville freaked out and fired offensive coordinator Tony Franklin after 4 games. Whether it be pressure from the higher ups, or just Tubs himself, Franklin never got a fair shot. In 10 years Tuberville faced 6 top 5 teams... In a four year span Gene Chizik has already faced 6 top five teams . This year alone he has had to face three top 20 teams and Auburn isnt even at the half way mark on the schedule. I kudos him for the level of competition that he has endured.

Now Auburn is in a similar light, lets blame the first year coordinators, its their fault, they should make the most of their situation.

Well in 2007 Nick Saban went 6-7 in his first year as a head coach at Alabama... so I guess he should have been fired then?

I understand that fans are upset with Chizik, but perhaps its his fault, not the assistant coaches. Vangorder is a hell of a hire for Auburn, and I think with the proper time, Loeffler can develop Frazier into a very good quarterback.

Ill be blunt.

This is whats going to happen...

Chizik will be back in 2013... hate to bust yalls ever hating bubble.

Loeffler's offense will settle down and become potent

VanGorders defense will only get better... they continue to get better every week, but the offense cant continue the lack of ability to sustain drives.

Last but not least... Kiehl Frazier will be a house hold name before he leaves Auburn, and the Haters will love him once again. It is funny how that works out.

Chizik deserves one more year... so do the respective coordinators... the identity will be set and their schemes will be in place.

At the end of of 2013 if we are still having this discussion... we know what happens next.

How much of a wager would you be willing to place on your prognostication?

[benjazz 0]

If Chiz isn't in Meltdown mode why did he apologize to all the fans for the Arky game? I think that is a sign of a meltdown.

[kevon67 2,368]

If Chiz isn't in Meltdown mode why did he apologize to all the fans for the Arky game? I think that is a sign of a meltdown.

Disagree. He is the HC. He was taking responsibility for the loss and thought enough of the fans to appologize. Coach Chizik = Class act.

[Guest jrljr]

Frazier's already a household name, only as the biggest joke ever.

You are a joke. A bad joke but still a joke! Get Bent crustyunderwear or whatever non-clever crap you call yourself. Have you ever even worn a jockstrap? I doubt it.

[guerra aguila 0]

So Auburn should fire Loeffler before he even has a chance to recruite a full recruiting class?

Remember the whole "Gus Bus" agenda you guys used to ride on?

He had some miserable games under Chris Todd in 2009. Auburn started 5-0 and finished 8-5.

That was his first year... sure the second year was easier with Newton at QB... but every experienced player returning had a much better grasp of his offense, and it helped them on the field.

In Loefflers situation, Auburn returns even more experience and talent. I would love to see how it develops... but I guess thats just me.

[metafour 4,907]

Well in 2007 Nick Saban went 6-7 in his first year as a head coach at Alabama... so I guess he should have been fired then?

Well in 2007 Saban was in his first year on the job. What kind of dumb analogy were you trying to make here? Surely you can muster up the brain-power to realize that Saban in 2007 has absolutely nothing to do with our current situation.

[guerra aguila 0]

Well in 2007 Nick Saban went 6-7 in his first year as a head coach at Alabama... so I guess he should have been fired then?

Well in 2007 Saban was in his first year on the job. What kind of dumb analogy were you trying to make here? Surely you can muster up the brain-power to realize that Saban in 2007 has absolutely nothing to do with our current situation.

You are absolutely right. But Scot Loeffler is also in his first year on the job and so is BVG. Just throwing that out there.

Sabans 2007 team was not very good, but they were competitive. My point is that many fans were not satisfied with his accomplishments right away. As a head coach, he has had way more consistency with his offensive and defensive systems.

Point the bame at Chiz if you must, but Loeffler and VG have nothing to do with it. IMO not as of now.

If people want to fire somebody after one season defensively or offensively, I think its a little pre-mature.

Jeff Driskell could only help Florida muster 6 points against our Defense last year... but now he has settled in, and they are undefeated. I think Fraziers fate is even better. Sorry for my dumb Analogy.

[AuKyle06 0]

I just don't see any consistency in CSLs play calling. It seems really sporadic. Frazier hasn't been helping him either however.

[ScubaSteve 194]

OC is to blame for not allowing one RB to get in the flow of the game. We are capable of running the ball even though the Defense knows we can't throw it. Mason, Blakely, and OMAC are all averaging over 5 yards per carry. Last time I checked 10 yards is a first down. Run on 1st and 2nd down then repeat all the way down the field. The Oline understands how to run block, simple!

[graffevj 0]

So Auburn should fire Loeffler before he even has a chance to recruite a full recruiting class?

Remember the whole "Gus Bus" agenda you guys used to ride on?

He had some miserable games under Chris Todd in 2009. Auburn started 5-0 and finished 8-5.

That was his first year... sure the second year was easier with Newton at QB... but every experienced player returning had a much better grasp of his offense, and it helped them on the field.

In Loefflers situation, Auburn returns even more experience and talent. I would love to see how it develops... but I guess thats just me.

I love the optimism but to your point about Loeffler recruiting players for his style of offense. Do you think Frazier will ever fit the mold in this offense considering he is a "spread QB"? I think that is a valid question considering the argument you make for Loeffler, There are so many problems with our team and from an outsider it is hard to know what the real issue is, but Loeffler either isn't very good at utilizing the talent we have or his hands are tied. How can you defend Mason getting six carries?

[Charleston Tiger 134]

I am beginning to question Loeffler, and I think I will be making the same point others have earlier. I'm all for changing the scheme, but until you recruit for YOUR scheme, play with what you've got. Adapt your playcalling to more shotgun formations, and give the guys you've got a chance.

[AU-24 3,060]

Tub's faced three top five teams in 2004 alone! Also a total of 6 or 7 ranked teams in 2004 and do you remember the outcome? For Tubs it was time to go, because he couldn't get his recruits in class or on the field not because he couldn't coach.

If you want to see poor coaching take off the orange and blue glasses and look at our 1-4 team. Coaching changes happen. They happen all around the country every season! The hot mess we are seeing on the field every week is completely unacceptable! Please Sir, no new guy excuses anymore!

[Strychnine 1,799]

I said this in another thread, but it's also quite relevant here. There is a hierarchy for a reason. If the guys below you have come and gone, yet the same undesired results persist, the people above start looking at you. Personally, I'm undecided about who needs to go, if anyone (and I know I don't make the decision anyway). I'm finding it difficult to reach a conclusion other than someone isn't doing their job properly. I'm not convinced that Gene Chizik is a bad coach, but I'm also not convinced that he isn't in a bit over his head. If the head coach is in over his head, and the offensive coordinator is in over his head, I can't reasonably expect a different result than what I'm seeing from this offense. Loeffler may actually be a fantastic offensive coordinator, but he set himself up for walking into the meat grinder when he came here. Spread players, inexperienced offensive coordinator, extremely competitive conference. That is a lot of work to do, with a short time to do it in, in a conference where most programs are noted for both their lack of patience and large paychecks. In other words, I wouldn't have thought of Loeffler as the guy to handle an offensive franchise reboot when he has had one year of experience as an offensive coordinator (at Temple). He has to get the existing staff on board, direct them in how he needs their positions coached, develop his schemes, coach the QB's himself, and then find time to scout opponents and gameplan. Nothing on his resume indicates that he is the guy that a head coach should entrust his job and program to for such a transition.

That is where I think the head coach and his own lack of experience comes into play.

Loeffler needed to be cutting his teeth as an offensive coordinator somewhere that already had most of the pieces in place to run an offense like his. It takes experience (and ingenuity) to know how to effectively adapt an offense around what you have, while steering toward the ultimate goal. That's what you have to do to stay employed in this league. No one judged Chizik on 2009, then there was 2010. 2011 was his year to post a record like this if he was going to. No reasonable individuals complained about 2011, we all expected it. 2011 made sense. We were supposed to see improvement in 2012. I understand Chizik wanting to move to a pro-style/multiple offense, even though I liked CGM's offense, and would have loved to see it with him running it exactly how he wants to (but that's another discussion). I don't really care much how Auburn goes about doing it, as long as they can consistently score more points than the other guys. That's how you win, after all. As the boss, Chizik is supposed to know that he is expected to deliver a competitive product, regardless of his desire to change offensive schemes. If you have spread players, you run a hybrid offense while you get the guys you ultimately need (which takes time, obviously). You do this because you have to. You still have to win. That's your job. With that big paycheck come big expectations. You do not get to post seasons like this at a top-tier program, and expect to continue doing so. As the boss, you're supposed to know this. You're not supposed to be learning on the job at Auburn University, not when you're the boss. A head coaching gig at an SEC school is not an internship. The professor that runs the engineering department isn't learning on the job. That said, if you find yourself being Gene Chizik (learning on the job at Auburn), you certainly do not hire someone that is also learning on the job for a position that can easily make or break you. That is foolish. Everyone in the coaching business has to learn on the job somewhere, but that somewhere should not be Auburn. That's what Iowa State, Arkansas State, Tulane, etc. are for.

I'm not quite ready to join the crowd wanting to lynch Chizik yet, but he has obviously made a foolish mistake. He needs to get in front of this and correct it before the wheels fall off his wagon, and I think his time frame in which to do so has been growing shorter every week. If Chizik does end up being fired at season's end, then his successor needs to be someone that isn't learning on the job. The position deserves a proper boss.

[Plaric 4]

Our offensive failures Saturday where due to the offensive line majority. I saw receivers open.....and Keihl was making his checks and spread the ball around nicely. The sacks and poor running were mostly on the offensive line. No offense will look good when the OL gets blown up like it did.

Keihl shouldn't have been pulled.

Jeff Grimes should have whooped his OL's ass on the sidelines.

CSL actually called a good game from what I saw.

This isn't all on Keihl, CSL or CGC. Our OL failed us this past weekend. If they held on...you would have seen something different.

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

Not even a full year to recruit players that will benefit his offensive schemes and we want to fire him?

Chizik made a tough decision to move to the Pro Style vs the No Huddle fast tempo offense and he had to know that it would come with issues.

Auburn is bad, they are perhaps 2008 bad... but Chizik is not in meltdown mode.

I agree that Chizik isn't in meltdown mode. (If he got through the Cam smears without flinching, he isn't about to melt down here.) That said, as far as Scott Loeffler goes, I think the head coach himself may have more or less issued a vote of no confidence in his OC with his statements yesterday. Check my post and link to a story in WEXTRA in this other thread and see what you think.

[Raven_tiger 5]

Not even a full year to recruit players that will benefit his offensive schemes and we want to fire him?

Chizik made a tough decision to move to the Pro Style vs the No Huddle fast tempo offense and he had to know that it would come with issues.

Auburn is bad, they are perhaps 2008 bad... but Chizik is not in meltdown mode. The fans are.

Tuberville freaked out and fired offensive coordinator Tony Franklin after 4 games. Whether it be pressure from the higher ups, or just Tubs himself, Franklin never got a fair shot. In 10 years Tuberville faced 6 top 5 teams... In a four year span Gene Chizik has already faced 6 top five teams . This year alone he has had to face three top 20 teams and Auburn isnt even at the half way mark on the schedule. I kudos him for the level of competition that he has endured.

Now Auburn is in a similar light, lets blame the first year coordinators, its their fault, they should make the most of their situation.

Well in 2007 Nick Saban went 6-7 in his first year as a head coach at Alabama... so I guess he should have been fired then?

I understand that fans are upset with Chizik, but perhaps its his fault, not the assistant coaches. Vangorder is a hell of a hire for Auburn, and I think with the proper time, Loeffler can develop Frazier into a very good quarterback.

Ill be blunt.

This is whats going to happen...

Chizik will be back in 2013... hate to bust yalls ever hating bubble.

Loeffler's offense will settle down and become potent

VanGorders defense will only get better... they continue to get better every week, but the offense cant continue the lack of ability to sustain drives.

Last but not least... Kiehl Frazier will be a house hold name before he leaves Auburn, and the Haters will love him once again. It is funny how that works out.

Chizik deserves one more year... so do the respective coordinators... the identity will be set and their schemes will be in place.

At the end of of 2013 if we are still having this discussion... we know what happens next.

I agree it's not csl fault entirely. Chizik is four years in and your comparing him to Saban's FIRST year???? If the freefall continues (see player tweets) gene will be gone after the season. Interestingly enough look at the look at the isu message board re chizik in his final year...sounds very familiar to what we ate seeing now at Auburn.

[Plaric 4]

Not even a full year to recruit players that will benefit his offensive schemes and we want to fire him?

Chizik made a tough decision to move to the Pro Style vs the No Huddle fast tempo offense and he had to know that it would come with issues.

Auburn is bad, they are perhaps 2008 bad... but Chizik is not in meltdown mode. The fans are.

Tuberville freaked out and fired offensive coordinator Tony Franklin after 4 games. Whether it be pressure from the higher ups, or just Tubs himself, Franklin never got a fair shot. In 10 years Tuberville faced 6 top 5 teams... In a four year span Gene Chizik has already faced 6 top five teams . This year alone he has had to face three top 20 teams and Auburn isnt even at the half way mark on the schedule. I kudos him for the level of competition that he has endured.

Now Auburn is in a similar light, lets blame the first year coordinators, its their fault, they should make the most of their situation.

Well in 2007 Nick Saban went 6-7 in his first year as a head coach at Alabama... so I guess he should have been fired then?

I understand that fans are upset with Chizik, but perhaps its his fault, not the assistant coaches. Vangorder is a hell of a hire for Auburn, and I think with the proper time, Loeffler can develop Frazier into a very good quarterback.

Ill be blunt.

This is whats going to happen...

Chizik will be back in 2013... hate to bust yalls ever hating bubble.

Loeffler's offense will settle down and become potent

VanGorders defense will only get better... they continue to get better every week, but the offense cant continue the lack of ability to sustain drives.

Last but not least... Kiehl Frazier will be a house hold name before he leaves Auburn, and the Haters will love him once again. It is funny how that works out.

Chizik deserves one more year... so do the respective coordinators... the identity will be set and their schemes will be in place.

At the end of of 2013 if we are still having this discussion... we know what happens next.

I agree it's not csl fault entirely. Chizik is four years in and your comparing him to Saban's FIRST year???? If the freefall continues (see player tweets) gene will be gone after the season. Interestingly enough look at the look at the isu message board re chizik in his final year...sounds very familiar to what we ate seeing now at Auburn.

Saban immediately installed his plan. Chizik is altering his offensive plan on his fourth year for something that will get us better long term results. The spread worked well for us. But he wants to do something not so sporadic. I wouldn't be so mad. If he did this on year one....we would be set right now and probably undefeated. But he didn't so, it is what it is. His initial decision did end up setting us up with tons of offensive records during his time here so far. So we will just wait and see IMO. Next year will be the sign for him.

[AuburnGrad97 37]

Our offensive failures Saturday where due to the offensive line majority. I saw receivers open.....and Keihl was making his checks and spread the ball around nicely. The sacks and poor running were mostly on the offensive line. No offense will look good when the OL gets blown up like it did.

Keihl shouldn't have been pulled.

Jeff Grimes should have whooped his OL's ass on the sidelines.

CSL actually called a good game from what I saw.

This isn't all on Keihl, CSL or CGC. Our OL failed us this past weekend. If they held on...you would have seen something different.

I agree that the O-line played their worst game of the season, but I do not buy that Loeffler called a good game, and I'll give you some examples.

Early on, Jay Prosch enters the game. We run behind him for 7 yards on 1st down. Prosch heads to the sidelines, where he sits for the next 5 plays, and we punt. This happened several times throughout the day. Jay is an ALL-AMERICAN FB, and he spends 65% of the game on the sidelines.

In the 2nd half, Clint comes in and we run off-tackle left for approx. 5 yards on 1st down. We then run the slot-receiver (Stallworth, I think) across the middle and complete the pass, but a penalty brings it all back. On 2nd and 15, we run THE SAME EXACT TWO PLAYS AGAIN, both for no gain. This is kindergarten play calling. I knew what was coming on approx. 40% of our offensive snaps, so I'm sure that Arky's defensive coordinator knew what we were running at least 70% of the time.

It's time to let Loeffler go. If we don't, then all coaches are in jeopardy. If we go 3-9, which is very possible at this point, no one will be safe. Better to make a move to right the ship now, rather than wait. Give Luper a chance to be interim OC. He shadowed Gus for the whole time he was at Auburn. I don't think it could get any worse.

[Strychnine 1,799]

Saban immediately installed his plan. Chizik is altering his offensive plan on his fourth year for something that will get us better long term results. The spread worked well for us. But he wants to do something not so sporadic. I wouldn't be so mad. If he did this on year one....we would be set right now and probably undefeated. But he didn't so, it is what it is. His initial decision did end up setting us up with tons of offensive records during his time here so far. So we will just wait and see IMO. Next year will be the sign for him.

I have thought the spread, or at least CGM's offense, would have worked perfectly fine for us long term had CGM been allowed to run it like he wanted. Hurry-up no huddle was almost always effective when it was used. I know it goes against the smash-mouth philosophy, but it still worked. I don't see how winning 70-63 is terrible and 21-14 is great. 70-63 is certainly more entertaining to watch.

[Plaric 4]

Saban immediately installed his plan. Chizik is altering his offensive plan on his fourth year for something that will get us better long term results. The spread worked well for us. But he wants to do something not so sporadic. I wouldn't be so mad. If he did this on year one....we would be set right now and probably undefeated. But he didn't so, it is what it is. His initial decision did end up setting us up with tons of offensive records during his time here so far. So we will just wait and see IMO. Next year will be the sign for him.

I have thought the spread, or at least CGM's offense, would have worked perfectly fine for us long term had CGM been allowed to run it like he wanted. Hurry-up no huddle was almost always effective when it was used. I know it goes against the smash-mouth philosophy, but it still worked. I don't see how winning 70-63 is terrible and 21-14 is great. 70-63 is certainly more entertaining to watch.

I can see that point of view.

I would rather win 21-0 etc though.

With a badass defense and an offense that manages the game. You win decisively.

Badass defense puts your offense back on the field after 3-5 plays. Game managing offense then pounds the s*** out of the opposing defense and they get tired and sloppy due to long methodical drives. As the game rolls on that managing offense scores tons of points due to defensive worries. While your defensive unit most likely gives them short fields, pick sixes....and whatever else you could want.

The hard core pro style offense that relies on long drives is key for long term success.

A hard nosed defense is as well.

We got very lucky several times in 2010....and that was with the best offensive player and DT in the country.

Our defense needs to be the strongest unit and our offense needs to be smart.

You never want shoot out games. They are more fun for the fans but lets face it. That forces a lot of mistakes on offense. Calm, controlled and methodical wins the race more times then balls to the wall speed.

[Strychnine 1,799]

Saban immediately installed his plan. Chizik is altering his offensive plan on his fourth year for something that will get us better long term results. The spread worked well for us. But he wants to do something not so sporadic. I wouldn't be so mad. If he did this on year one....we would be set right now and probably undefeated. But he didn't so, it is what it is. His initial decision did end up setting us up with tons of offensive records during his time here so far. So we will just wait and see IMO. Next year will be the sign for him.

I have thought the spread, or at least CGM's offense, would have worked perfectly fine for us long term had CGM been allowed to run it like he wanted. Hurry-up no huddle was almost always effective when it was used. I know it goes against the smash-mouth philosophy, but it still worked. I don't see how winning 70-63 is terrible and 21-14 is great. 70-63 is certainly more entertaining to watch.

I can see that point of view.

I would rather win 21-0 etc though.

With a badass defense and an offense that manages the game. You win decisively.

Badass defense puts your offense back on the field after 3-5 plays. Game managing offense then pounds the s*** out of the opposing defense and they get tired and sloppy due to long methodical drives. As the game rolls on that managing offense scores tons of points due to defensive worries. While your defensive unit most likely gives them short fields, pick sixes....and whatever else you could want.

The hard core pro style offense that relies on long drives is key for long term success.

A hard nosed defense is as well.

We got very lucky several times in 2010....and that was with the best offensive player and DT in the country.

Our defense needs to be the strongest unit and our offense needs to be smart.

You never want shoot out games. They are more fun for the fans but lets face it. That forces a lot of mistakes on offense. Calm, controlled and methodical wins the race more times then balls to the wall speed.

And I can see that point of view. My thinking is that balls to the wall speed also tires out the opposing defense, likely more so. They don't get to rotate their players as frequently, and they get pushed on their heels. Also, apply this offensive philosophy to a team we're all familiar with, the 2004 Auburn Tigers. Both sides of that team were dominant, and I don't think that offensive philosophy would have completely undermined that defense. In 2010, our defense was certainly not very good (not by our standards at least), and I don't think the offense had all that much to do with it since they weren't generally dominant right out of the locker room. If you quickly go up 28 or 35-0 in the first half, you'll beat most teams we would ever play. If you continue with the offensive pressure, you certainly will. That's CGM's objective.

Personally, I think long-term success can be found with good execution of either offensive philosophy. I loved watching CGM's offense when it was running how he wanted it to. However, as I said in my first post, I don't really care how Auburn goes about it as long as they consistently score more than the other guys with a balanced attack.