Scary story if it's all true

[MDM4AU 338]

IRS, FBI, ATF, OSHA all involved?

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/348756/true-scandal-jillian-kay-melchior

[jared52 4,358]

It's like the Third Red Scare, only red means something different.

[telling tiger 156]

I wonder if this is some of the voter fraud they were talking about and monitoring, I have my doubts. http://www.presidentialvoteonline.com/index.php/election-fraud/55-the-great-gop-election-fraud-of-2012 For the patty panics among us, that is NOT a liberal site or liberal provider of editorial opinion. Go figure.

[TitanTiger 21,493]

Even if they thought True The Vote was involved in some sort of voter suppression effort, what does that have to do with the IRS, OSHA and ATF suddenly investigating their for profit business and giving them a bunch of Mickey Mouse fines and mounds of paperwork to complete?

[telling tiger 156]

We only get one side of this story, for all we know they had an actual violation of OSHA rules and deserved the fine. Simply more of the "po' lil' ol' me" tea party crap. Not a week goes by that I do not have to communicate in some way, even if it is on an informational basis with the IRS. Wah,wah,wah. It is called business. Media games, nothing more, nothing less, imo. Other opinions may vary and are just as relevant. This article is an example on this board of how a one-sided point is made and we all pile on and offer our never ending sympathy and haven't got the first actual clue of FACT. We have a one sided presentation of an EDITORIAL type story. Again.

[TitanTiger 21,493]

We only get one side of this story, for all we know they had an actual violation of OSHA rules and deserved the fine. Simply more of the "po' lil' ol' me" tea party crap.

Well, it sounds like they may have had some violations, but the coincidence here is alarming. Get involved with a Tea Party group, not only get sudden intense scrutiny from the IRS and the FBI over it but then OSHA and ATF conveniently show up to strain at gnats and find a few minor violations. I don't think you'd be so dismissive if this were a liberal business owner who joined some anti-war protest group during the Bush Administration and suddenly found their business "randomly" selected for detailed audits by OSHA and ATF.

[telling tiger 156]

This, certainly not as fundamentalist as many here, business owner has had 2 audits of a business in the last 4 years and 1 personal. But whatever. I'll save my righteous indignation for facts, not speculation.

[TitanTiger 21,493]

This, certainly not as fundamentalist as many here, business owner has had 2 audits of a business in the last 4 years and 1 personal. But whatever. I'll save my righteous indignation for facts, not speculation.

Actually, all of the audits started after July 2010. And one or both of the auditors sent to them to do a particularly thorough inspection remarked that they didn't really understand why they were sent to look at them.

And there was a third audit:

The next month, in November 2012, the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality, the state’s environmental agency, showed up for an unscheduled audit at Engelbrecht Manufacturing. Catherine says the inspector told her the agency had received a complaint but couldn’t provide any more details. After the inspection, the agency notified the Engelbrechts that they needed to pay for an additional mechanical permit, which cost about $2,000 per year.

I think you're being awfully flippant about this...seemingly because of the political affiliation of the people involved.

[TitanTiger 21,493]

Not to mention, since when does it take 3 years to receive IRS approval (or denial) for tax-exempt status on non-profit organization?

[telling tiger 156]

I think you are being awfully flippantly protective of them for that same political affiliation. I detest the tea party, it represents to me, the lowest intellectual common denominators in American politics. It is America. I can feel that way. Others opinions of that mean nothing to me. A privately held business or corporation is naturally more prone to an audit because it does not have the same reporting and compliance publishing requirements that a publically held corp. does. From a business perspective, that is common sense at its' most base. Ask the Koch brothers, but that doesn't stop them from squealing that it is partisan, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Ask McWane Pipe, privately held and wildly successful business with an owner in a Bham burb. It is privately held, audits are ongoing and ever present. The more cash you make, it happens. Search Forbes archives for the numbers of ever increasing audits over a 10 year period. It isn't all a political witch hunt. That sure as hell never stops the propaganda though.

[telling tiger 156]

"Both auditors remarked, they didn't know why they were sent". So we have this persons word they said that? Well, I'm convinced, they have no political axe to grind, lol. Again, all this indignation over a speculative article AT BEST.

[TitanTiger 21,493]

I think you are being awfully flippantly protective of them for that same political affiliation. I detest the tea party, it represents to me, the lowest intellectual common denominators in American politics. It is America. I can feel that way. Others opinions of that mean nothing to me. A privately held business or corporation is naturally more prone to an audit because it does not have the same reporting and compliance publishing requirements that a publically held corp. does. From a business perspective, that is common sense at its' most base. Ask the Koch brothers, but that doesn't stop them from squealing that it is partisan, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Ask McWane Pipe, privately held and wildly successful business with an owner in a Bham burb. It is privately held, audits are ongoing and ever present. The more cash you make, it happens. Search Forbes archives for the numbers of ever increasing audits over a 10 year period. It isn't all a political witch hunt. That sure as hell never stops the propaganda though.

I'm not being flippant at all. I'm going along with the point the original poster made: this is scary if true.

It looks fishy to me. And the audits aren't just coming from the IRS, they're coming from all sorts of places all of the sudden...not ramping up over a 10-year period, but rather suddenly after 20 years after a Summer 2010 application for tax exempt status to the IRS for a Tea Party group.

I don't give three craps about the Tea Party. I don't belong to any Tea Party groups. I don't intend to join any either. They don't represent my concerns overall. But this sudden attention seems strange.

[telling tiger 156]

3500 tea party groups suddenly apply for status. MANY have directors or board members with prior tax issues. That list is available online. Multiple sources. Some with a modicum amount of notoriety. Including a candidate for federal office. Why were no liberal groups targeted? The only comparable org was Occupy who couldn't afford showers much less an office or 501c4 status. IF there were abuses, prosecute the hell out of it. A member who participates in this forum commented earlier in another thread, that the stench from Wash DC was overwhelming. I agree, I just do not think the smell from the vocal public is any better. We demand better and then do not model the behavior we demand. IF TRUE, I couldn't agree more with, take this to court, the burden of proof hasn't even left home yet, much less, arrived at court. BTW, Titan, I meant you defending them because of more conservative views, not you as a member of the tea party, lol. I'm a tad more observant than that.

[TitanTiger 21,493]

3500 tea party groups suddenly apply for status. MANY have directors or board members with prior tax issues. That list is available online. Multiple sources. Some with a modicum amount of notoriety. Including a candidate for federal office. Why were no liberal groups targeted? The only comparable org was Occupy who couldn't afford showers much less an office or 501c4 status. IF there were abuses, prosecute the hell out of it. A member who participates in this forum commented earlier in another thread, that the stench from Wash DC was overwhelming. I agree, I just do not think the smell from the vocal public is any better. We demand better and then do not model the behavior we demand. IF TRUE, I couldn't agree more with, take this to court, the burden of proof hasn't even left home yet, much less, arrived at court.

Not according to this:

http://m.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/05/there-was-no-surge-in-irs-tax-exempt-applications-in-2010/275985/

Shows that 501©4 applications were around 2200 in the year these folks applied (2011). And not all of them were Tea Party groups.

And, what do you know, suddenly they are the target of not just audits and investigations for the non-profit application by the IRS and FBI, but now OSHA, ATF and their state environmental organization conduct extensive audits, all within months to a year of the application. Not sure how that doesn't read as fishy to you.

[telling tiger 156]

I'm not overly interested in how you think that doesn't read fishy to me. At all. I read several other numbers online this AM giving other numbers. But we will go with the Atlantic. Who really gives a damn about parsing numbers that are large either way. You make yourself happy with how you want to though, ok? lol. ANY political group if done this way would try to arrange the rhetoric around making themselves sound like the terribly abused party for as long as possible. In my opinion that is all this article with ONLY ONE EDITORIAL VIEWPOINT, is. . You weren't there. You don't know. You know what you believe, you know what you want to be true. I won't change your mind and I ASSURE you, you aren't capable of changing mine.

[TitanTiger 21,493]

I'm not overly interested in how you think that doesn't read fishy to me. At all.

So what if you're not interested? I am. You've jumped into this discussion so your views are part of it. You seem dismissive. I'm perplexed as to why and (I think) rightly wonder if you'd be the same way if it were happening to liberal groups with the GOP in the White House.

I read several other numbers online this AM giving other numbers. But we will go with the Atlantic.

Actually, we'll go with the IRS, from whom The Atlantic received their numbers.

Who really gives a damn about parsing numbers that are large either way.

Because they weren't especially large? The two years prior there'd been over 1700 such applications. So the number went up about 500. Not a small increase, but not exactly an explosion either.

You make yourself happy with how you want to though, ok? lol.

"lol?" Are you a 14 year old girl texting your friends between classes?

It has nothing to do with making me happy.

ANY political group if done this way would try to arrange the rhetoric around making themselves sound like the terribly abused party for as long as possible. In my opinion that is all this article with ONLY ONE EDITORIAL VIEWPOINT, is. . You weren't there. You don't know. You know what you believe, you know what you want to be true. I won't change your mind and I ASSURE you, you aren't capable of changing mine.

Actually my feelings are the polar opposite. I desperately DON'T want this to be true. A government that would start harassing someone and messing with their livelihood over political views is scary. I hope to God it's not that. But if the Bush Administration was doing the exact same thing to liberal groups and business owners, I'd feel the same way.

What part of "scary if true" isn't penetrating your bubble?

[autigeremt 7,251]

As I've stated several times in the last week...they will protect him (and their party) at all costs. Not matter what they have done. http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/05/20/report-doj-investigated-fox-news-reporter-james-rosen-2009-leak-probe-north-korea

[telling tiger 156]

Am I 14 year old girl texting between classes? Yeah , you got the corner on maturity , don't you, big fella? Lol, whatever. thanks for giving an example of the online behavior I was discussing earlier in this thread. Spot on.

[TitanTiger 21,493]

Am I 14 year old girl texting between classes? Yeah , you got the corner on maturity , don't you, big fella? Lol, whatever. thanks for giving an example of the online behavior I was discussing earlier in this thread. Spot on.

I'm not the one who got all dismissive about the subject. You did. I'm just trying to understand why and see how consistent this lack of concern is and you go silly on me. Sorry that pointing it out bothers you.

[MDM4AU 338]

Telling Tiger don't care!

[telling tiger 156]

It doesn't bother me at all you pointing it out, at least your opinion of what you are pointing out. I really am unmoved by your opinion of this or anything else for that matter. Now for you immensely mature response of a being a 14 year old girl between classes, I'm actually a grown man who is at the airport texting waiting on his almost grown children to return from a weekend in Virginia. I'm not dismissive of the subject, I'm dismissive of the right wing nut response to it. It's up to you, if you include yourself in that number or not. A flying fig can't care less than I do.

[TitanTiger 21,493]

It doesn't bother me at all you pointing it out, at least your opinion of what you are pointing out. I really am unmoved by your opinion of this or anything else for that matter.

Look, we get it. You don't care about nobody's opinion of nuthin'. Noted.

Now for you immensely mature response of a being a 14 year old girl between classes, I'm actually a grown man who is at the airport texting waiting on his almost grown children to return from a weekend in Virginia.

Good to know. Doesn't really excuse the response. If that's how you're going to engage the subject, why bother? Or why not wait to respond when you have the time to add something of thought and value?

I'm not dismissive of the subject, I'm dismissive of the right wing nut response to it. It's up to you, if you include yourself in that number or not. A flying fig can't care less than I do.

I'm wondering...do you care? It's so hard to tell if you care. If you don't just spit it out. We wait for your answer with baited breath. Please don't keep us in the dark any longer.

We haven't been talking about right wing nuts or their response to anything. And I wasn't asking your opinion on what right wing nuts think. We're talking about one couple that started a Tea Party group and suddenly found themselves not just getting scrutiny from the IRS, which would be understandable, but the FBI, OSHA, ATF and their state's environmental agency all within a few months to a year of applying for a 501c4 group status. In light of the other stuff we've been hearing about this sort of thing, I would think it would be worrisome. So my questions have been about that. Yet you've been dismissive and blown the whole thing off. I'm wondering why.

[telling tiger 156]

I'm wondering some things myself. Like why an article that is an editorially slanted piece has such control over someone's anger. Like why it drives someone to obsessively post about it while decrying the time and interest in it others may or may not have. What I posted was about the article, you are free to like it or not. Now about that baited breath, if Scope doesn't help you, you might want to consult your dental professional. Be careful of the fluoride, however, a lot of conspiracy nuts worry about that stuff.

[TitanTiger 21,493]

I'm wondering some things myself. Like why an article that is an editorially slanted piece has such control over someone's anger.

No one's angry. At least not me. I haven't noticed anyone else acting angry. Are you confused?

Like why it drives someone to obsessively post about it while decrying the time and interest in it others may or may not have.

Crazy me. I made an assumption that if you were taking the time to chime in on the post that you actually had some interest in discussing it.

What I posted was about the article, you are free to like it or not.

Earlier you said you were being dismissive of right wing nuts' responses to it. I just pointed out that was never the subject. Discuss the subject, not some ancillary stuff no one is talking about.

If this were a liberal or progressive group protesting the actions of a Republican President and all this stuff started happening to them and their business in short order afterward, would you be so quick to dismiss it?

[homersapien 12,286]

I'm not overly interested in how you think that doesn't read fishy to me. At all.

So what if you're not interested? I am. You've jumped into this discussion so your views are part of it. You seem dismissive. I'm perplexed as to why and (I think) rightly wonder if you'd be the same way if it were happening to liberal groups with the GOP in the White House.

I read several other numbers online this AM giving other numbers. But we will go with the Atlantic.

Actually, we'll go with the IRS, from whom The Atlantic received their numbers.

Who really gives a damn about parsing numbers that are large either way.

Because they weren't especially large? The two years prior there'd been over 1700 such applications. So the number went up about 500. Not a small increase, but not exactly an explosion either.

You make yourself happy with how you want to though, ok? lol.

"lol?" Are you a 14 year old girl texting your friends between classes?

It has nothing to do with making me happy.

ANY political group if done this way would try to arrange the rhetoric around making themselves sound like the terribly abused party for as long as possible. In my opinion that is all this article with ONLY ONE EDITORIAL VIEWPOINT, is. . You weren't there. You don't know. You know what you believe, you know what you want to be true. I won't change your mind and I ASSURE you, you aren't capable of changing mine.

Actually my feelings are the polar opposite. I desperately DON'T want this to be true. A government that would start harassing someone and messing with their livelihood over political views is scary. I hope to God it's not that. But if the Bush Administration was doing the exact same thing to liberal groups and business owners, I'd feel the same way.

What part of "scary if true" isn't penetrating your bubble?

LOL!

Sounds to me you aren't really interested in whether or not its true.