Sen. Durbin pressures gun lobby with threat to move ATF authority to FBI

[MDM4AU 338]

Sen. Durbin pressures gun lobby with threat to move ATF authority to FBI

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/306089-dem-pressures-gun-lobby-with-threat-to-move-atf

Would we be better off with the ATF being absorbed by another organization like the FBI? Should there be this whole department to run and manage if it could be handled by another? Would this save the country money? (I know...I am laughing as I ask the last question.)

[homersapien 12,329]

Seems like reasonable questions to me.

And it makes even more sense when you consider the ATF hasn't even had a permanent director since 2006. If they don't need to have someone in charge, do they really need to be an independent agency?

I don't see a problem. Do you?

[MDM4AU 338]

Honestly, I don't see a problem. You're point about the lack of a director since 2006 is spot on.

[cptau 169]

Sen. Durbin pressures gun lobby with threat to move ATF authority to FBI

http://thehill.com/h...eat-to-move-atf

Would we be better off with the ATF being absorbed by another organization like the FBI? Should there be this whole department to run and manage if it could be handled by another? Would this save the country money? (I know...I am laughing as I ask the last question.)

If you read what the ATF did to botch the Waco raid to arrest David Koresh, and then the FBI came in and made it worse...... I dont know.....

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Waco_Siege

ATF had planned their raid for Monday, March 1, 1993, with the code name "Showtime."[36] The ATF would later claim that the raid was moved up a day, to February 28, 1993, in response to the Waco Tribune-Herald's "The Sinful Messiah" series of articles (which the ATF had tried to prevent from being published).[23] The plain text of the search warrant said it expired February 28 at 10:00 pm, which meant if the raid had been carried out on March 1, it would have been on an expired warrant. Beginning February 1, ATF agents had three meetings with Tribune-Herald staff regarding a delay in publication of "The Sinful Messiah." The paper was first told by ATF that the raid would take place February 22, which they soon after changed to March 1, and then ultimately to an indefinite date. ATF agents felt the newspaper had held off publication at the request of the ATF for at least three weeks. In a February 24 meeting between Tribune-Herald staff and ATF agent Phillip Chojancki and two other agents, ATF could not give the newsmen a clear idea of what action was planned or when. The Tribune-Herald informed ATF they were publishing the series, which included an editorial calling for local authorities to act. Personnel of the Tribune-Herald found out about the imminent raid after the first installment of "The Sinful Messiah" had already appeared on February 27.[37]

Although the ATF preferred to arrest Koresh when he was outside Mount Carmel, planners received inaccurate information that Koresh rarely left it.[38] The Branch Davidian members were well known locally and had cordial relations with other locals. The Branch Davidians partly supported themselves by trading at gun shows and took care always to have the relevant paperwork to ensure their transactions were legal.[39] Branch Davidian Paul Fatta was a federal firearms licensed dealer and the group operated a retail gun business called the Mag Bag. When shipments for the Mag Bag arrived, they were signed for by Fatta, Steve Schneider or Koresh. The morning of the raid, Paul Fatta and son Kalani were on their way to the Austin, Texas gun show to conduct business.[40]

The ATF attempted to execute their search warrant on a Sunday morning, February 28, 1993. Any advantage of surprise was lost when a reporter who had been tipped off about the raid asked for directions from a U.S. Postal Service mail carrier who was coincidentally Koresh's brother-in-law.[23] Koresh then told undercover ATF agent Robert Rodriguez that they knew a raid was imminent. Rodriguez had infiltrated the Branch Davidians and was astonished to find that his cover had been blown. The agent made an excuse and left the compound. When asked later what the Branch Davidians had been doing when he left the compound, Rodriguez replied, "They were praying." Branch Davidian survivors have written that Koresh ordered selected male followers to begin arming and taking up defensive positions, while the women and children were told to take cover in their rooms.[23] Koresh told them he would try to speak to the agents, and what happened next would depend on the agents' intentions.

Despite being informed that the Branch Davidians knew a raid was coming, the ATF commander ordered that the raid go ahead, even though their plan depended on reaching the compound without the Branch Davidians being armed and prepared.[23] While not standard procedure, ATF agents had their blood type written on their arms or neck after leaving the staging area and before the raid, because it was recommended by the military to facilitate speedy blood transfusions in the case of injury.[41][42] Agents approached the site in cattle trailers pulled by pickup trucks owned by individual ATF agents.

The local sheriff attempted to contact the ATF force but initially could not get through because the ATF communications officer had turned his radio off. Eventually Lt. Lynch of the McLennan County Sheriff Dept. got through and negotiated a ceasefire.[23] Sheriff Harwell states in William Gazecki's documentary, Waco: The Rules of Engagement, that the ATF agents withdrew only after they were out of ammunition.[49] ATF agent Chuck Hustmyre later wrote: "About 45 minutes into the shootout, the volume of gunfire finally started to slacken. We were running out of ammunition. The Davidians, however, had plenty." After the ceasefire the Branch Davidians allowed the ATF dead and wounded to be evacuated and held their fire during the ATF retreat.

Four ATF agents: Steve Willis, Robert Williams, Todd McKeehan and Conway LeBleu were killed during the raid. Another 16 were wounded. The five Branch Davidians killed in the 9:45 am raid were Winston Blake (British), Peter Gent (Australian), Peter Hipsman, Perry Jones and Jaydean Wendell; two at the hands of the Branch Davidians themselves.[50] Nearly six hours after the 11:30 am ceasefire, Michael Schroeder was shot dead by ATF agents who alleged he fired a pistol at agents as he attempted to re-enter the compound with Woodrow Kendrick and Norman Allison.[23]The news media initially reported Schroeder was shot breaking out of Mount Carmel. His wife claimed that he was merely returning from work and had not participated in the day's earlier altercation.[49]

The local sheriff, in audiotapes broadcast after the incident, said he was not apprised of the raid. Alan A. Stone's report states that the Branch Davidians did not ambush the ATF and that they "apparently did not maximize the kill of ATF agents," explaining that they were rather "desperate religious fanatics expecting an apocalyptic ending, in which they were destined to die defending their sacred ground and destined to achieve salvation."[51] A 1999 federal report later noted: