Defensive Recruiting

[mcgufcm 4,096]

Consistency is a nice, but playmaking is nicer. Both guys have that in spades compared to Bynes. The pass rush McKinzy has shown this year was just never on the table with Josh. Craig could do that when he was younger at Auburn, but injuries took it away from him before his senior year. Both Frost and McKinzy are also more versatile than Josh. They can interchange from inside to outside, which allows a lot more creativity. That was not an option in 2010.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree, but the game Kris Frost just had was more dynamic than just about any game Josh had at Auburn. He had the two INT game against Arkansas, but again, that had more to do with proper alignment than explosive plays.

[McLoofus 35,182]

I agree that you guys disagree.

Anxious to revisit the conversation on the bye week. We'll clearly have a much more informative measuring stick to argue about by then.

[Rednilla 5,389]

Quite frankly, reading the back and forth about Kris and Cass vs. Josh Bynes, I would suggest that they are likely about even for this point in their career...which puts Frost and McKinzy in line to quickly exceed Bynes, because they've both been building consistency at a much more frequent pace than Josh built explosive play.

[ellitor 33,084]

He had the two INT game against Arkansas, but again, that had more to do with proper alignment than explosive plays.

It was still as much big money plays in the team needing at as Frosty's horse sack on Johnny Football.

[ellitor 33,084]

I agree that you guys disagree.

Anxious to revisit the conversation on the bye week. We'll clearly have a much more informative measuring stick to argue about by then.

Disagree hear too. lol The next bye comes before our major gauntlet to finish the year. I did think we can have a truly informed assessment til after the season.

[Mikey 16,576]

Maybe I should have clarified by saying you know how to indirectly start a thread. Ha

You gotta' admit that takes talent!

[metafour 4,968]

Is it time for me to intervene and settle this yet, guys?

[Mikey 16,576]

I haven't seen any rebuttal to the logic and numbers and I provided in my last post...............

You are beating your keyboard to pieces telling us about how well we've done in the second half. Only linebackers played in the second halves of games?

Yes, the two starters are playing somewhat better than they did last year. Isn't that what's supposed to happen in the normal course of events? Would they play for another SEC contender? I don't think so, so our opinions diverge.

If we sign two this year and the normal average of one works out, then no, that's not sufficient to bring the LB corps up to where it needs to be.

As for my old buddy mcgufcm's idea that the current two are as good or better than Bynes and Stephens, I think not and it's not even close.

[metafour 4,968]

Mikey's opinion on Auburn Linebackers may go down in history as one of the most absurd/delusional since the Internets inception.

Newsflash: you're not going to see the incarnations of Dick Butkus and Ray Lewis suiting up to play LB at Auburn. Doesn't matter if you sign 15 of them every year, it won't happen.

[Mikey 16,576]

Mikey's opinion on Auburn Linebackers may go down in history as one of the most absurd/delusional since the Internets inception.

Newsflash: you're not going to see the incarnations of Dick Butkus and Ray Lewis suiting up to play LB at Auburn. Doesn't matter if you sign 15 of them every year, it won't happen.

Typical meatfour post. He's been insulting people this same way for years. Don't need Butkus and Lewis reincarnated but Spikes and Riggins would be nice.

[McLoofus 35,182]

I agree that you guys disagree.

Anxious to revisit the conversation on the bye week. We'll clearly have a much more informative measuring stick to argue about by then.

Disagree hear too. lol The next bye comes before our major gauntlet to finish the year. I did think we can have a truly informed assessment til after the season.

Before our major gauntlet... but after a tuneup game, a home game against the 17th-ranked team in the country and an away game against the 14th-ranked team in the country- both of the last two being SECW opponents. Again, we will know much more about our team after that.

By the way, it's disagree "here".

[ellitor 33,084]

Before our major gauntlet... but after a tuneup game, a home game against the 17th-ranked team in the country and an away game against the 14th-ranked team in the country- both of the last two being SECW opponents. Again, we will know much more about our team after that.

You might but not me. They have been so inconsistent through their careers that I need to see more than a few game stretch before making a real assessment.

[mcgufcm 4,096]

I think you're underselling how difficult the LSU and MSU back-to-back will be. Setting LBs aside, I think we'll know a lot about this team by the bye week. That combo will be as difficult as any two-game combo on the schedule. LSU is a mental hurdle for this program, and both teams are very physical. A&M and Ole Miss are great football teams, but neither is as physical as LSU or MSU. These two games are going to take a lot out of us.

[ellitor 33,084]

I think you're underselling how difficult the LSU and MSU back-to-back will be.

Not underestimating at all. My statement has nothing to do with the opponents. Given how inconsistent the LBs have been I need to see more than a 3 game stretch regardless of who the opponents are.

That combo will be as difficult as any two-game combo on the schedule.

Disagree. I think the the TAMU-UGA will be more difficult, especially considering TAMU on paper is the worst matchup for our D given TAMU's passing game plus already playing SCe and Ole Miss the previous 2 weeks.

LSU is a mental hurdle for this program

Don't think they're a mental hurdle for this year's team. Our D matches up very well with them andit's the revenge game for our boys since it was our only regular season loss last year.

A&M and Ole Miss are great football teams, but neither is as physical as LSU or MSU

We'll find out this week how physical TAMU's defense is but to this point their front 4 has been very physical albeit against weaker teams except for SCe.

These two games are going to take a lot out of us.

True but we will get a week off after that to prepare for a rarely seen high quality 4 game SEC gauntlet with no cupcakes or byes sprinkled in. The cumilative affect of those 4 games is tougher than the LSU-MSU combo.

[McLoofus 35,182]

I think you're underselling how difficult the LSU and MSU back-to-back will be. Setting LBs aside, I think we'll know a lot about this team by the bye week. That combo will be as difficult as any two-game combo on the schedule. LSU is a mental hurdle for this program, and both teams are very physical. A&M and Ole Miss are great football teams, but neither is as physical as LSU or MSU. These two games are going to take a lot out of us.

Yup. I was originally hoping for a later bye, but I don't think our team is going to complain about getting a break after those two games.

If our defense can man up against those two offenses, then we'll know that we are physical enough to go toe-to-toe with UGA and bama. We still won't know what we can throw at Ole Miss and aTm, but nobody does until they play them. If we find a pass rush before the bye, then hey, bonus. If we don't, then we're just not going to have one this season. If we continue to limit the big plays like we did against KSU until the bye, then hey, great, we've learned how to limit big plays. If we don't, then we're just going to be a team that gives up big plays. If Nick Ruffin continues to play and play well, then Nick Ruffin is a legit safety. If the things that we think we already know at this point continue to hold true until the bye, then they're true. Heck, we might even find out that we have a couple young LBs who can play.

As for any inconsistency our defense has shown in the careers... well, yeah. Last year was the 3rd different system in as many years, and it is way different than the two broken systems before it. The defensive staff was still having to "unteach" a lot of bad habits and reteach fundamentals like tackling last year (the improvement in tackling is already drastic). Now CEJ is teaching the team how to apply those fundamentals within his system.

We've played 3 very different teams in 3 very different environments so far and have already had a bye. The next bye will signify the midpoint of our season and the 20th game of the CEJ experience. We'll know what our defense is by then.

[mcgufcm 4,096]

Did you see Carolina this week? They're OL doesn't look very physical to me.

And LSU is a mental hurdle for this program until we prove otherwise. You can talk about favorable matchups all you want, but they've kicked our butts seven times in nine years. Until we jump them, they're a hurdle.

I'm interested in A&M. I'm skeptical, but we'll see. If they're any better than 2-2 in the next four, I'll be impressed.

[Rednilla 5,389]

I haven't seen any rebuttal to the logic and numbers and I provided in my last post...............

You are beating your keyboard to pieces telling us about how well we've done in the second half. Only linebackers played in the second halves of games?

Yes, the two starters are playing somewhat better than they did last year. Isn't that what's supposed to happen in the normal course of events? Would they play for another SEC contender? I don't think so, so our opinions diverge.

If we sign two this year and the normal average of one works out, then no, that's not sufficient to bring the LB corps up to where it needs to be.

As for my old buddy mcgufcm's idea that the current two are as good or better than Bynes and Stephens, I think not and it's not even close.

Did you miss the points per game numbers I posted? We're 13th in the country in points given up per contest. That's for the entire game, not just the second half. I keep posting about second half numbers because they show how much the defense is getting better as the game goes along. Do you not see the advantage there?

By the way, your opinion diverges with the statements made by Ellis Johnson, too. I'd say the burden of proof is on you to prove that you're right and I'm wrong.

If we sign two linebackers and only one works out, then we'll have 8 back from this year, presumably all improved (as you so eloquently put it, that's the way it's supposed to go), including the two starters, as well as the two signed last year. Even if none of the others step up, that would mean one from last year pans out and one from this year's recruiting class pan out, providing the next line of starters after Frost and Cass graduate. Do I want more depth than that? Yes, of course I do. But, again, I don't believe that the entire LB corps is horrible, the way you do, so I don't think we're as low on depth as you think we are. And, again, all indications are that the coaches agree with me.

[WDavE 332]

I don't want to get in this cat-fight but from last year to this one. I see a big improvement in both our starting LB's.

Some of this can be tied to better line play in front of them but most of the improvement is just them.

Swapping positions was a smart move also...

[metafour 4,968]

Typical meatfour post. He's been insulting people this same way for years. Don't need Butkus and Lewis reincarnated but Spikes and Riggins would be nice.

How was that insulting?

Your expectations are beyond absurd, as are your constant claims that supposedly everyone in the SEC has better linebackers than us. They dont.

Remember when our linebackers were so god awful that Tre Williams was supposed to come in and displace both starters as a true freshman (as you kept claiming)? How is that working out so far? 1.5 tackles in 3 games, really asserting himself over those scrubs McKinzy and Frost trollolol.

[Mikey 16,576]

Typical meatfour post. He's been insulting people this same way for years. Don't need Butkus and Lewis reincarnated but Spikes and Riggins would be nice.

How was that insulting?

Your expectations are beyond absurd, as are your constant claims that supposedly everyone in the SEC has better linebackers than us. They dont.

Remember when our linebackers were so god awful that Tre Williams was supposed to come in and displace both starters as a true freshman (as you kept claiming)? How is that working out so far? 1.5 tackles in 3 games, really asserting himself over those scrubs McKinzy and Frost trollolol.

I was pretty sure Tre would be in the two-deep rotation by mid-season, barring injury. He's already there and it's not mid-season yet.

Since you are here, how many LB's do you think we should sign in any given year? One? Zero? Seven? Go on, walk on the edge and instead of just criticizing others, contribute your opinion for a change, if you have the guts to do so.

[mcgufcm 4,096]

I'm of the opinion that 2-3 actual LBs in any given class is enough for a 4-2-5 team. I'd also say Tre is in the two-deep in spirit only. He was DNP'd against KState, and he's been on the field for 11 snaps all season. By comparison, Frost played 73 snaps last week (aka, every single defensive snap of the game) and averages 61 per game. His PT is going up. Cass played 57 snaps and averages 51. His PT is going up. Anthony Swain played 11 snaps and averages 8. His PT is going up. That's it at LB.

We play 3 guys at the moment, and Ellis has indicated that he wants to get Swain on the field more often. He hasn't said the same of anyone else. That tells me the 3-man rotation is here to stay for a while. In part because we also shift into the two-Star alignments to increase the snaps for Therezie and Garrett. Those guys played 78 snaps combined against KState, and I think you can take the increase as a loss for the true LBs.

We'd like to have a true two-deep, but we don't have one right now. Technically, Tre Williams is Frost's backup, but that gets him about as much field time as the average guy watching his TV at home.

[AUApostle 7,651]

I'm of the opinion that 2-3 actual LBs in any given class is enough for a 4-2-5 team. I'd also say Tre is in the two-deep in spirit only. He was DNP'd against KState, and he's been on the field for 11 snaps all season. By comparison, Frost played 73 snaps last week (aka, every single defensive snap of the game) and averages 61 per game. His PT is going up. Cass played 57 snaps and averages 51. His PT is going up. Anthony Swain played 11 snaps and averages 8. His PT is going up. That's it at LB.

We play 3 guys at the moment, and Ellis has indicated that he wants to get Swain on the field more often. He hasn't said the same of anyone else. That tells me the 3-man rotation is here to stay for a while. In part because we also shift into the two-Star alignments to increase the snaps for Therezie and Garrett. Those guys played 78 snaps combined against KState, and I think you can take the increase as a loss for the true LBs.

We'd like to have a true two-deep, but we don't have one right now. Technically, Tre Williams is Frost's backup, but that gets him about as much field time as the average guy watching his TV at home.

Do you expect a redshirt coming for Tre? If not I would expect significant time against LaTech and hopefully he makes progress…seems in a similar position as Roc, except that the coaches are telling the press they expect Roc to get more involved as the year goes on.

[McLoofus 35,182]

I'm of the opinion that 2-3 actual LBs in any given class is enough for a 4-2-5 team. I'd also say Tre is in the two-deep in spirit only. He was DNP'd against KState, and he's been on the field for 11 snaps all season. By comparison, Frost played 73 snaps last week (aka, every single defensive snap of the game) and averages 61 per game. His PT is going up. Cass played 57 snaps and averages 51. His PT is going up. Anthony Swain played 11 snaps and averages 8. His PT is going up. That's it at LB.

We play 3 guys at the moment, and Ellis has indicated that he wants to get Swain on the field more often. He hasn't said the same of anyone else. That tells me the 3-man rotation is here to stay for a while. In part because we also shift into the two-Star alignments to increase the snaps for Therezie and Garrett. Those guys played 78 snaps combined against KState, and I think you can take the increase as a loss for the true LBs.

We'd like to have a true two-deep, but we don't have one right now. Technically, Tre Williams is Frost's backup, but that gets him about as much field time as the average guy watching his TV at home.

That's terrifying. *sacrifices chicken* *prays to Jobu* *puts voodoo dolls of Frost and McKinzy in safe deposit box*

[mcgufcm 4,096]

Oh I expect to see Tre a good bit on Saturday. He's not going to redshirt. By the end of the year, I'm hopeful that he'll give us 10-20 snaps in meaningful games. That would be ideal, but he's not good enough (especially from a mental standpoint) to do that right now. So Frost plays every snap. When we go to the double-Star look, it's generally Frost manning the single LB position.

When we shift into the 3-3-5, Frost stays on the field then too (usually with Garrett or Therezie playing the other OLB). That's been an interesting alignment. Against KState, the most common personnel that I could see for that group was: Adams-Blackson-Wright, Frost-McKinzy-Therezie, Mincy-Reed, Holsey-Ruffin-Ford. We used it a lot. Ruffin played a good bit of Safety with Holsey and Ford flanking him.

Mincy played every snap of the game as well, by the way. THAT is why we need Whitehead back. Holsey is the only guy we trust at Boundary CB behind Mincy. Whitehead allows us to play Holsey at CB. Even if you want to leave Holsey at Safety (which may be his best spot), you could rotate him down to CB from time to time to give Mincy a rest.

[ellitor 33,084]

Do you expect a redshirt coming for Tre?

He can't redshirt barring a season ending injury in the next game or 2 (knock on wood). He's already played which burns the use of a standard RS.