Saban still complaing about call in AU game

[SouthLink02 8]

http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/120804...enalty001.shtml

Dated 12/08/04

Last month, a reporter asked LSU football coach Nick Saban if he plans, in his role as a member of the NCAA Football Rules Committee, to initiate a discussion in the offseason about a critical late-game penalty called against LSU in its 10-9 loss Sept. 18 at Auburn.

"What do you think?" Saban said. "If the rules committee doesn't have it on the agenda, I do. So, if I'm in the meeting, it's going to get talked about."

The penalty -- a personal foul against defensive back Ronnie Prude -- applied a new rule that bars a player from getting a running start and leaping to block any placement kick if he lands on an opposing player.

John Vaughn missed the PAT after Auburn's game-tying touchdown with 1:14 left, but after the flag against Prude, who landed on Auburn deep snapper Pete Compton, Vaughn tried again from a yard and a half closer. He made that kick to give Auburn a one-point lead and the eventual victory.

Had LSU defeated Auburn, LSU -- not Auburn -- would have represented the SEC Western Division in the SEC Championship Game last weekend. LSU would probably be ranked higher than No. 11.

LSU might also be playing as SEC champion with an 11-1 record in the Nokia Sugar Bowl instead of with a 9-2 record in the Capital One Bowl.

Saban didn't blame the official for throwing the flag, but he said the rule is not the one he advocated during the offseason, nor is to easy to enforce. Saban and LSU players also said Prude landed on Compton only after an LSU teammate was blocked into him and caused him to fall forward.

That would not have been a foul if officials had seen it that way. Southeastern Conference supervisor of officials Bobby Gaston said if there's a replay showing that happened, he hasn't seen it.

"LSU never sent me that clip," Gaston said.

Gaston and Saban both said they hope the rule is altered.

"For that play -- and whoever threw that flag -- to determine who goes to the SEC Championship Game is almost ridiculous," Saban said, "and it wasn't his (the official's) fault, because based on the technical aspects of the rule, you could say it was a foul.

"But you could say every time somebody gets touched in basketball, it's a foul. Is that right? But there is such a thing as a no-call, right? Or do I watch different basketball than everybody else?"

Saban said he saw many games this season in which the penalty could have been called but wasn't.

"You see them every week," Saban said. "You see them every week, and not nearly as bad as what we had."

Gaston said he's for safety, but he agreed with Saban that the rule could have been written better.

"There are no officials on the rules committee," Gaston said. "We do have a few delegates who help the committee, but they don't have a say in passing a new rule or not. I tell people all the time we don't write the rules. We enforce them."

John Adams, NCAA rules secretary editor for football, writes the rules after the committee discusses and approves them. He said the new rule became a part of rules discussions five or six years ago, primarily for safety reasons.

Adams said support for the rule grew last year after a player in the Mountain West Conference suffered a serious neck injury after running and jumping in an attempt to block a kick.

The first versions of the rule called for a penalty even if the player didn't land on anybody, Adams said. Coaches didn't like that rule. Another version called for a flag even if the player landed on a teammate. Few liked that rule either.

Gaston said he's not a big fan of the rule that passed.

"Maybe we overreacted to the injury," he said.

Gaston said he's already prepared his own proposed change, calling for a flag if a player lands on anybody -- a teammate or an opponent.

"If you really want safety," he said, "don't let a player come down on anybody."

Saban said he wanted a rule that prevents a player from beginning his running start from behind the feet of the down linemen in front of him -- roughly two yards off the line of scrimmage. That rule was not approved.

[lcau 0]

And "if a bullfrog had wings..."

The w/o the penalty LSU doesn't win the game...we would have gone to OT....but of course, Saban probably thinks there was no way that LSU would have lost in OT. who's to say Auburn scores a TD and XP, shuts LSU out of the endzone and wins by 7 instead of 1.

[AUloggerhead 1,843]

Water under the bridge. This is so old it's almost last season.

Still gotta laugh at the irony, though: Saban on the rules committee and he failed to instruct his players on the new rule his committe passed, and then the new rule comes around to bite him right in the azz. Who's at fault here, ... the officials? This one is going to be remembered for a long time. 10-9, 2004 SEC Champs, 12-0.

[AuNuma1 1]

Ok, so if the call wasn't made, the game probably goes into OT. Does Saban just assume LSU would've won in OT?

[AUHansel 0]

who cares what he thinks...he is on the rules commitee and gets to decide what the rules are. he was on it when this rule was decided. it was a rule either way you slice it and it should not be debated. we would have had the momentum going into ot anyways.

[VTMike 0]

Look I go to Viriginia Tech and I was at the VT v. USC game. I have stopped complaining about that phantom offensive pass interferance call (probable the worst overall call by any ref all season). The simple fact is that it was made and you have to deal with it. We should have stepped up to win anyway but we didnt. I Any undefeated season requires that the school have a few lucky breaks here and there. USC may have gotten one of theirs with that call. But to blame teh entire game on a call? No thanks that is shifting the blame for what your team couldnt get done.

[CarolinaTiger 0]

so saban is advocating 'no calls' now?

and who gets to decide when an infraction is called and when one isn't, given the infraction actually occurred? saban, i guess.

[AUesquire 1]

Is Saban going to lobby for closer pass interference calls that turn games around against rivals wearing crimson and white. I bet he won't bring that one up.

On our last extra point against UT, they came down on our center as hard as I've ever seen. It was right in front of me and I did have to wonder what the ref was thinking, or not thinking.

[AuNuma1 1]

On our last extra point against UT, they came down on our center as hard as I've ever seen.  It was right in front of me and I did have to wonder what the ref was thinking, or not thinking.

The Kentucky guys were landing on the UT guys in that game...and it was obvious too.

[GeauxTigers 0]

It was a chicken **** call that had no bearing on the play at all and it greatly affected the game at a critical moment. Your kicker missed the XP. It wasn't called all year except that one play.

Does winning the game completely blind people to objectivity? Apparently.

We won't discuss the Travis Daniels interception that the refs took away that would have sealed the game for LSU.

Auburn won the game but it was because of some very bad calls by the officials. LSU is still to blame though because they should have put the game away and not put the game in the hands of the officials.

BTW, Saban is widely regarded as one of the most knowledgeable coaches in the game and on the rules committee. Rest assured this rule will be changed.

[wesfau 0]

It was a chicken **** call that had no bearing on the play at all and it greatly affected the game at a critical moment. Your kicker missed the XP. It wasn't called all year except that one play.

Does winning the game completely blind people to objectivity? Apparently.

.

130681[/snapback]

Oh, sweet irony. Objectivity would mean that the refs call the fouls when they occur regardless of the timing. Critical moment or not, objective referreeing requires calling the fouls you see. Refraining from making a call because it occurs during a "critical moment" is making a subjective call.

Dolt.

Auburn won the game but it was because of some very bad calls by the officials. LSU is still to blame though because they should have put the game away and not put the game in the hands of the officials.

Auburn won the game because, after the first LSU drive, the AU defense didn't allow the LSU offense within FG range.

[chinook 0]

i didn't realize geauxtigers is really saban. how cool is it to have a ncaa div 1 a coach frequent this board?

[Guest Tigrinum Major]

It was a chicken **** call that had no bearing on the play at all and it greatly affected the game at a critical moment. Your kicker missed the XP. It wasn't called all year except that one play.

Does winning the game completely blind people to objectivity? Apparently.

130681[/snapback]

How do you know it had no bearing on the play? By disregarding the rules, the LSU player put others at risk as well as himself, which is the purpose of the rule. Furthermore, who's to say that the player didn't propel himself upward ILLEGALLY and throw off the kicker's accuracy.

FACT: A majority of fans don't know all the rules of any sport and are not watching the same thing as the officials. They are watching the ball.

Show me the replay where the player was "blocked" into the center. Provide me with verification that in the other eleventy hundred college football games this year that this rule wasn't invoked. Otherwise, sit down, shut up and get ready to take a beatdown at Tiger Stadium next year...

[GeauxTigers 0]

It was a chicken **** call that had no bearing on the play at all and it greatly affected the game at a critical moment. Your kicker missed the XP. It wasn't called all year except that one play.

Does winning the game completely blind people to objectivity? Apparently.

.

130681[/snapback]

Oh, sweet irony. Objectivity would mean that the refs call the fouls when they occur regardless of the timing. Critical moment or not, objective referreeing requires calling the fouls you see. Refraining from making a call because it occurs during a "critical moment" is making a subjective call.

Dolt.

Auburn won the game but it was because of some very bad calls by the officials. LSU is still to blame though because they should have put the game away and not put the game in the hands of the officials.

Auburn won the game because, after the first LSU drive, the AU defense didn't allow the LSU offense within FG range.

130683[/snapback]

If you can't understand that there is a differnce between a call that is made in the first quarter when it is any team's game and a call that is made on a last minute play that directly affects the outcome of the game then you neither understand the game nor the officials' power in the game.

[BustemBigBlue 22]

Auburn won the game but it was because of some very bad calls by the officials.

:nopity:

If you want to blame the officials we can play that game too. Ronnie Brown clearly scored a touchdown on what was supposed to be a halfback pass but was called out of bounds. The replay showed very clearly that he scored. Auburn should have won by more. Auburn is better than LSU and would win by 2 or 3 touchdowns if we were to play again now.

[GeauxTigers 0]

who's to say that the player didn't propel himself upward ILLEGALLY and throw off the kicker's accuracy.

I am. Any idot can watch the game and see for himself.

get ready to take a beatdown at Tiger Stadium next year...

What team do you think will show up to do it?

[Guest Tigrinum Major]

If you can't understand that there is a differnce between a call that is made in the first quarter when it is any team's game and a call that is made on a last minute play that directly affects the outcome of the game then you neither understand the game nor the officials' power in the game.

130691[/snapback]

So, if I understand THIS twisted logic, you wouldn't be whining and bitching about this call if it occured earlier (kind of like a no call on pass interference in the end zone in the second or third quarter), only because of the TIMING?

So, officials should simply tuck their hankies away at critical times and let the players do whatever the hell they want in the last two minutes of a close game? Or they should only make the calls that you like at those critical times?

How about this...that game was early in the season, when the SEC West was still up for grabs, not late in the season, so it was ok to make that call.

Get a grip!

[wesfau 0]

If you can't understand that there is a differnce between a call that is made in the first quarter when it is any team's game and a call that is made on a last minute play that directly affects the outcome of the game then you neither understand the game nor the officials' power in the game.

130691[/snapback]

I completely understand the difference. I was merely pointing out that the post I quoted called for "objectivity". The disparity in the scenarios you are citing calls for subjective application of the rules.

I'm sorry if this is all too complicated for you. Would a drawing help?

[Guest Tigrinum Major]

who's to say that the player didn't propel himself upward ILLEGALLY and throw off the kicker's accuracy.

I am. Any idot can watch the game and see for himself.

As evidenced by so many television antenneas sticking up out of the bayous...

get ready to take a beatdown at Tiger Stadium next year...

What team do you think will show up to do it?

130693[/snapback]

You won't have Marcus Randall to score any points for you next year.

Everyone is already downplaying Auburn's chances next year. That equates to another chance at a big year...but I will take two wins, corndogs and bammers, and be happy...

[Tigermike 2,603]

It was a chicken **** call that had no bearing on the play at all and it greatly affected the game at a critical moment. Your kicker missed the XP. It wasn't called all year except that one play.

Does winning the game completely blind people to objectivity? Apparently.

We won't discuss the Travis Daniels interception that the refs took away that would have sealed the game for LSU. 

Auburn won the game but it was because of some very bad calls by the officials. LSU is still to blame though because they should have put the game away and not put the game in the hands of the officials.

BTW, Saban is widely regarded as one of the most knowledgeable coaches in the game and on the rules committee. Rest assured this rule will be changed. 

130681[/snapback]

There are plenty of chicken **** calls in almost every game. What about the block in the back 30 yards away from the play? Or holding on the opposite side of the field from the play?

It appears that loosing does completely blind people to objectivity doesn't it?

While you are not discussing the Daniels interception, don't bother to discuss phantom holding penalty on a long pass play to Ronnie Brown.

BTW, Saban is widely regarded as one of the most knowledgeable coaches in the game and on the rules committee. Rest assured this rule will be changed.

He is on the committee and he did vote and approve the rule didn't he? Are you saying the rule will be changed because it is a bad rule or because LSU was called for it.

If as you say, that call was not made in any other game this year, it could be that the other coaches did a better job of teaching the RULES to their players.

I would say that AUBURN won the game because of clutch plays by the SEC PLAYER OF THE YEAR!

The season is over and here you are whining about ONE frigging call in ONE football game.

[TtownTiger 0]

It was a chicken **** call that had no bearing on the play at all and it greatly affected the game at a critical moment. Your kicker missed the XP. It wasn't called all year except that one play.

Does winning the game completely blind people to objectivity? Apparently.

We won't discuss the Travis Daniels interception that the refs took away that would have sealed the game for LSU. 

Auburn won the game but it was because of some very bad calls by the officials. LSU is still to blame though because they should have put the game away and not put the game in the hands of the officials.

BTW, Saban is widely regarded as one of the most knowledgeable coaches in the game and on the rules committee. Rest assured this rule will be changed. 

130681[/snapback]

Widely regared by who, if Saban is so influential how did this RULE he seems to hate so much ever get past the rules committee of which he is chairperson. If he is so knowledgeable and everyone really listens to him this RULE wouldn't exist today.

[AUesquire 1]

I've still heard no rebuttal to:

1. LSU's offense NEVER sniffed field goal range after the second quarter.

2. The refs blew the call on Ronnie Brown's touchdown.

3. Saban was on the rules committee that implemented this rule in the first place. Please answer the question. Is he going to say it was a bad rule and it should now be abolished? Or is it a bad rule now because LSU was called for it? He mad ethe rule. Which is it?

No. None of these issues will be addressed. Only that the reason LSU lost was because of a call on the extra point. Oh, and still no answer on your DB pushing Bama's receiver down in the endzone. A call, excuse me, non-call, that basically turned an ass-whipping by Bama around.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

My comments for what they are worth:

1. This call alone did not cause LSU to lose the game and the vast majority of LSU fans agree. One play or one call rarely determine the outcome of a game. Fans and sportswriters just like to think they do. Not being able to stop Auburn on 4th and 12 before they scored the TD was just as big a facor in LSU losing as the extra point deal. After all, if we didn't score the TD, the extra point (bad call or not) becomes a moot point Sorry Geauxtigers, you are way off on this one.

2. In defense of Saban, I don't think he is still just whining about the call. I think he has a legimate issue (note I didn't say complaint). This extra point rule being enforced is as rare as a bama win in Tuscaloosa As noted I don't think it was called anywhere elese all year. So Saban is simply saying he intends to bring it up as an issue and get clarification. Enforce it, clarify it, or remove it, Clearly something needs to be done. It's a little bit like that rare deal a couple of weeks ago (I forgot which game) where the defense ended up getting one point on a missed extra point attempt by the offense. No one could ever remember that happening and I bet you that one will get discussed and clarified also.

[kingfish 59]

GeauxTigers appears to have missed the boat on this one. No minute, no quarter is more important than any other in a football game ... it only appears that way to some who don't recognize the value of every play every down. If something qualifies for a penalty in the 1st quarter it should without question qualify for the same penalty in the 4th quarter. Whether you recognize it or not, the game can be on the line during any play of any quarter.

[jaydubb121 22]

I'm not clear as to how Satan says that call decided the WesternDivision.

Didnt they get the everloving crap kicked out of them by Georgia AFTER the refs gave us that win against lswho. So didnt their pitiful performance against the Dogs cost them the West, not the officials?