Is Gus Sandbagging?

[Rednilla 5,383]

I don't believe he was sandbagging or holding back just toying with our opponents. Gus had certain things he really wanted to work on in the early games. The revamped offensive line was and is a problem. That is not something you cure overnight. He wanted to get the guys up front as much repetition on certain plays as he could to try and work on their understanding of each other and the things they wanted to get done. Now with Miller injured one only knows how that will affect things. Continuity on the O line is crucial and you can't keep running guys in and out of the lineup. If everyone can stay healthy they can pull it together. This offense isn't going to suddenly kick it into high gear and be a well oiled machine. There is a reason why they have not looked sharp in the first 4 games of the season.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Malzahn was toying with the opponents, unless you mean "toying with" as in concealing certain aspects of the playbook from our future opponents. You're absolutely right that the continuity on the offensive line is and has been a problem, and no, it's not something that can be cured overnight, but there is no need to show all the formations and play variations that he has devised in order to develop that continuity.

That having been said, I wouldn't be so sure that the offense won't suddenly kick it into high gear and start hitting on all cylinders. It won't be due to any premeditated design by the coaches, and if it does happen, it probably won't happen tomorrow. I don't really think we're that far off the right rhythm; it's just that we have to find that rhythm, and own it, before things start clicking properly.

[cooltigger21 0]

I don't believe he was sandbagging or holding back just toying with our opponents. Gus had certain things he really wanted to work on in the early games. The revamped offensive line was and is a problem. That is not something you cure overnight. He wanted to get the guys up front as much repetition on certain plays as he could to try and work on their understanding of each other and the things they wanted to get done. Now with Miller injured one only knows how that will affect things. Continuity on the O line is crucial and you can't keep running guys in and out of the lineup. If everyone can stay healthy they can pull it together. This offense isn't going to suddenly kick it into high gear and be a well oiled machine. There is a reason why they have not looked sharp in the first 4 games of the season.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Malzahn was toying with the opponents, unless you mean "toying with" as in concealing certain aspects of the playbook from our future opponents. You're absolutely right that the continuity on the offensive line is and has been a problem, and no, it's not something that can be cured overnight, but there is no need to show all the formations and play variations that he has devised in order to develop that continuity.

That having been said, I wouldn't be so sure that the offense won't suddenly kick it into high gear and start hitting on all cylinders. It won't be due to any premeditated design by the coaches, and if it does happen, it probably won't happen tomorrow. I don't really think we're that far off the right rhythm; it's just that we have to find that rhythm, and own it, before things start clicking properly.

Oh I know that you don't show any more than what you have to in these early games. It seemed to me that some were suggesting that Gus was just playing a game of cat and mouse or something along that line. I may have misinterpreted things posted by others here and if so that's on me. I believe they will find their rhythm in due course. That offensive line has got to gel as a unit. This game will go a long way toward that.

[alexava 6,973]

i don't think everyone understands the meaning of " sandbagging". Or hell maybe I don't .

[Rednilla 5,383]

i don't think everyone understands the meaning of " sandbagging". Or hell maybe I don't .

sandbag

verb: to hide your true abilities or purpose in order to deceive people, gain an advantage, etc.

http://www.merriam-w...ary/sandbagging

[autigeremt 6,569]

I expect more of the true three dimensional zone read tomorrow. Cam Pain with 165 yards rushing, Corey Grant with 100, and Nick with 85.

[Rednilla 5,383]

I expect more of the true three dimensional zone read tomorrow. Cam Pain with 165 yards rushing, Corey Grant with 100, and Nick with 85.

I've got a funny feeling that it isn't going to go like that (not that I would be opposed). We will likely rush for 200+ as a team, but something tells me we're going to see some fireworks in the passing game...and I think some of them will come with both JJ and Marshall on the field at the same time. I think we'll see some of those flare routes that worked so well with OMac in the 2010 Iron Bowl after Bama started ignoring him once the handoff was faked, and if Chavis blitzes a whole lot, I think we'll see several screen passes as well.

That being said, I do think we'll see the return of the zone read, because I think Nick is going to start keeping it some himself and forcing the defense to play all angles. And that, in turn, should open up the play action game...and I don't see too many defenses being able to stick with our receivers when they have to commit 6-8 players to stopping the run.

[WFE12 9,191]

I expect more of the true three dimensional zone read tomorrow. Cam Pain with 165 yards rushing, Corey Grant with 100, and Nick with 85.

I've got a funny feeling that it isn't going to go like that (not that I would be opposed). We will likely rush for 200+ as a team, but something tells me we're going to see some fireworks in the passing game...and I think some of them will come with both JJ and Marshall on the field at the same time. I think we'll see some of those flare routes that worked so well with OMac in the 2010 Iron Bowl after Bama started ignoring him once the handoff was faked, and if Chavis blitzes a whole lot, I think we'll see several screen passes as well.

That being said, I do think we'll see the return of the zone read, because I think Nick is going to start keeping it some himself and forcing the defense to play all angles. And that, in turn, should open up the play action game...and I don't see too many defenses being able to stick with our receivers when they have to commit 6-8 players to stopping the run.

flare routes?

[Rednilla 5,383]

I expect more of the true three dimensional zone read tomorrow. Cam Pain with 165 yards rushing, Corey Grant with 100, and Nick with 85.

I've got a funny feeling that it isn't going to go like that (not that I would be opposed). We will likely rush for 200+ as a team, but something tells me we're going to see some fireworks in the passing game...and I think some of them will come with both JJ and Marshall on the field at the same time. I think we'll see some of those flare routes that worked so well with OMac in the 2010 Iron Bowl after Bama started ignoring him once the handoff was faked, and if Chavis blitzes a whole lot, I think we'll see several screen passes as well.

That being said, I do think we'll see the return of the zone read, because I think Nick is going to start keeping it some himself and forcing the defense to play all angles. And that, in turn, should open up the play action game...and I don't see too many defenses being able to stick with our receivers when they have to commit 6-8 players to stopping the run.

flare routes?

Yes. I referenced the 2010 Iron Bowl; in the first half of that game someone on Auburn's sideline picked up that when we faked the jet sweep to OMac, the Bama defense ignored him once they knew he didn't have the ball. This led to a few plays in the second half where Cam faked the hand off on the jet sweep, looked the defense off downfield, and then flipped the ball out to a wide open Onterrio in the flat, getting him the ball in space and letting him take off downfield for generally 10-20 yards. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the same type of strategy employed tomorrow with Grant, if they don't cover him properly...and if they do cover him properly, it'll probably open up something else, either another receiver farther downfield or a running lane for Nick to take off through.

Oh, and just to give a formal definition of a flare route, it is when a back flares out of the backfield toward the sideline, presumably to an area cleared out by receivers running slants, crossing routes, or fly patterns, without having a wall of blockers set up in front of him (like a standard screen pass). It's similar to a wheel route, except on a wheel route the back flares out toward the sideline, generally with a linebacker covering him in the flats, and then cuts up the sideline to take advantage of the speed mismatch of covering an RB with a backer. The two routes are used to play off of one another, and when called at the right time, both can be pretty deadly. Arizona utilized the principle last night against Oregon for several big gains.

[leglessdan 1,934]

That zone read play-action pass Arizona was running last night was killing Oregon. The same pass NM threw towards the end of the Iron Bowl. I would like to see more of those.

[WFE12 9,191]

I expect more of the true three dimensional zone read tomorrow. Cam Pain with 165 yards rushing, Corey Grant with 100, and Nick with 85.

I've got a funny feeling that it isn't going to go like that (not that I would be opposed). We will likely rush for 200+ as a team, but something tells me we're going to see some fireworks in the passing game...and I think some of them will come with both JJ and Marshall on the field at the same time. I think we'll see some of those flare routes that worked so well with OMac in the 2010 Iron Bowl after Bama started ignoring him once the handoff was faked, and if Chavis blitzes a whole lot, I think we'll see several screen passes as well.

That being said, I do think we'll see the return of the zone read, because I think Nick is going to start keeping it some himself and forcing the defense to play all angles. And that, in turn, should open up the play action game...and I don't see too many defenses being able to stick with our receivers when they have to commit 6-8 players to stopping the run.

flare routes?

Yes. I referenced the 2010 Iron Bowl; in the first half of that game someone on Auburn's sideline picked up that when we faked the jet sweep to OMac, the Bama defense ignored him once they knew he didn't have the ball. This led to a few plays in the second half where Cam faked the hand off on the jet sweep, looked the defense off downfield, and then flipped the ball out to a wide open Onterrio in the flat, getting him the ball in space and letting him take off downfield for generally 10-20 yards. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the same type of strategy employed tomorrow with Grant, if they don't cover him properly...and if they do cover him properly, it'll probably open up something else, either another receiver farther downfield or a running lane for Nick to take off through.

Oh, and just to give a formal definition of a flare route, it is when a back flares out of the backfield toward the sideline, presumably to an area cleared out by receivers running slants, crossing routes, or fly patterns, without having a wall of blockers set up in front of him (like a standard screen pass). It's similar to a wheel route, except on a wheel route the back flares out toward the sideline, generally with a linebacker covering him in the flats, and then cuts up the sideline to take advantage of the speed mismatch of covering an RB with a backer. The two routes are used to play off of one another, and when called at the right time, both can be pretty deadly. Arizona utilized the principle last night against Oregon for several big gains.

thanks 4 the info,got too many weapons not to utilize plays like these to keep opposing teams off guard

[Rednilla 5,383]

thanks 4 the info,got too many weapons not to utilize plays like these to keep opposing teams off guard

Absolutely, and Gus does an outstanding job of figuring out what the defense is giving him and then exploiting it. If something's working, he'll use the same concept over and over with a different look. If the concept doesn't work, he typically goes to a further evolution of that play, exploiting whatever tendency they exposed to blow up the first concept. That's why it seems like he's running the same play over and over again sometimes when things aren't clicking: it's less that he is actually running the same play and more that the plays start the same way, but the defense is able to stop it before we can turn the corner or hit the wide open man downfield or whatever else he was setting up.

It can be extremely frustrating when things aren't going right, either from lack of execution or having one or two players flat getting beat (because that's all it takes to stop those set up plays due to the amount of time they can take to develop)...but then all of a sudden, someone with a blue jersey is running in wide open spaces, either through misdirection in the run game or slipping a receiver out to a place where nobody's at home. The TD pass to Emory Blake in the 2010 BCSNCG comes to mind, when the announcer made the comment about how Auburn will jab with Dyer, jab with Dyer, jab with Dyer, and then hit you for the home run...and then the very next play came the home run.

[AuburnGrad97 37]

Okay, I know this was a sore subject among the Auburn Family last week, but after the performance I saw against LSU, I am 100% convinced that Gus was holding back over the last 2-3 games. Is that "sand-bagging"? I don't know, but I do know it was friggin' BRILLIANT!!! LSU had no idea what hit them. We came out hitting on all cylinders. We were passing on 1st down, we were mixing up our playcalling, we amped up our pace, in other words, we were playing AUBURN FOOTBALL! I think we can all agree that against K-State and San Jose State, we were not. I love that Gus is our coach, and I hope we have him for many years to come. I also hope we find a way to keep this staff together for as long as possible, but that will get more difficult every year.

Sand-bagging or not, it is truly GREAT, TO BE, AN AUBURN TIGER! Sit back and enjoy it, and bring on the re-match with Free Seafood University!!!

WDE!

[alexava 6,973]

Still no sandbagging. better blocking at the point of attack. The biggest difference is probably the WR play. VS Kstate we dropped easy passes. VS LSU sammy and duke made catches that no one makes or expects them to make for huge gains and TDs. That is the difference. Gus wanted to beat KState just as bad, we didnt make the plays and Kstate probably has better defense than the corndogs. We showed we are better than we were vs Kstate that does not mean we didnt try vs kstate.

[ALTiger 16]

Don't know whether or not it was sandbagging, but once we had the game in the bag we went back to being vanilla in preparations for next weeks game IMO. Ms St aka Prescott, will be a huge task especially in their house!

[Rednilla 5,383]

Still no sandbagging. better blocking at the point of attack. The biggest difference is probably the WR play. VS Kstate we dropped easy passes. VS LSU sammy and duke made catches that no one makes or expects them to make for huge gains and TDs. That is the difference. Gus wanted to beat KState just as bad, we didnt make the plays and Kstate probably has better defense than the corndogs. We showed we are better than we were vs Kstate that does not mean we didnt try vs kstate.

Okay, first off, so that no one has to go back a page, here's Webster's definition of sandbagging again:

sandbag

verb: to hide your true abilities or purpose in order to deceive people, gain an advantage, etc.

http://www.merriam-w...ary/sandbagging

Now, for the record, in the interview CJ Uzomah gave on Sirius XM's College Football station (channel 91) after the game, one of the hosts mentioned that there had been speculation that Gus had been holding back some things in the first four games of the season, said it certainly appeared that way after the LSU game, and asked if that was in fact the case. CJ kinda laughed and confirmed that Coach did, indeed, neglect to open the playbook a whole lot specifically in preparation for the stretch we started last night.

That does not mean that Gus didn't want to win, or that he was toying with anyone, or anything of that nature; rather, he was hiding our true capabilities in order to gain an advantage going forward in the season. Ergo, yes, by definition, we were sandbagging, at least to some degree. And I would be surprised if there are not still more tricks hidden up Malzahn's sleeves for later in the season.

That is certainly not to say the O-line didn't improve by leaps and bounds last night, because for the most part they appeared to do just that. It's just a confirmation that the struggles we had were not purely due to not playing/coaching as well as we 'should have'.

[cooltigger21 0]

Still no sandbagging. better blocking at the point of attack. The biggest difference is probably the WR play. VS Kstate we dropped easy passes. VS LSU sammy and duke made catches that no one makes or expects them to make for huge gains and TDs. That is the difference. Gus wanted to beat KState just as bad, we didnt make the plays and Kstate probably has better defense than the corndogs. We showed we are better than we were vs Kstate that does not mean we didnt try vs kstate.

Okay, first off, so that no one has to go back a page, here's Webster's definition of sandbagging again:

sandbag

verb: to hide your true abilities or purpose in order to deceive people, gain an advantage, etc.

http://www.merriam-w...ary/sandbagging

Now, for the record, in the interview CJ Uzomah gave on Sirius XM's College Football station (channel 91) after the game, one of the hosts mentioned that there had been speculation that Gus had been holding back some things in the first four games of the season, said it certainly appeared that way after the LSU game, and asked if that was in fact the case. CJ kinda laughed and confirmed that Coach did, indeed, neglect to open the playbook a whole lot specifically in preparation for the stretch we started last night.

That does not mean that Gus didn't want to win, or that he was toying with anyone, or anything of that nature; rather, he was hiding our true capabilities in order to gain an advantage going forward in the season. Ergo, yes, by definition, we were sandbagging, at least to some degree. And I would be surprised if there are not still more tricks hidden up Malzahn's sleeves for later in the season.

That is certainly not to say the O-line didn't improve by leaps and bounds last night, because for the most part they appeared to do just that. It's just a confirmation that the struggles we had were not purely due to not playing/coaching as well as we 'should have'.

Gus always starts a little slow as he figures out what the identity of the team is. This is about the time he starts to ratchet things up.

[Rednilla 5,383]

Gus always starts a little slow as he figures out what the identity of the team is. This is about the time he starts to ratchet things up.

This is true, but I think the way he's gone about it this year has been different than in years prior; he has been evaluating, just doing so in such a way that he has been able to get the information he needs without giving away anything about how he plans to "get better every game", as he keeps harping on. Last year, it felt like he was experimenting to find what works; this year, I get the feeling he has been doing more fine tuning before hitting the murderer's row that is the last 2/3 of the schedule.

[Guest jojo1515]

Watch Gus's interview from post game. He says we don't want to play our best ball now. We want to do that at the end of the year. He had said in an earlier interview that he didn't want to peak too early. In a non-specific way, he admitted twice that he is sandbagging in an attempt to not play their best game yet. So to answer the question of this never ending thread, Gus has pretty much admitted that he has been sandbagging, and CJ admits it too.

[alexava 6,973]

Gus did not ask wr to drop passes vs kstate. He did not tell his qb to purposely let the opposing dline bat passes down. He did not have plays that he knew would work that were installed for the game that he purposely didnt call in order to keep the score close. regardless of how you interpret the definition of sandbagging vs his stating that he wants to continually improve throughout the season, Gus wanted to score 50 on kstate on espn thursday night football. He was not able to. He was fortunate to win. If you believed he sandbagged you are infected with an illogical case of blind homerism.

[Rednilla 5,383]

Gus did not ask wr to drop passes vs kstate. He did not tell his qb to purposely let the opposing dline bat passes down. He did not have plays that he knew would work that were installed for the game that he purposely didnt call in order to keep the score close. regardless of how you interpret the definition of sandbagging vs his stating that he wants to continually improve throughout the season, Gus wanted to score 50 on kstate on espn thursday night football. He was not able to. He was fortunate to win. If you believed he sandbagged you are infected with an illogical case of blind homerism.

Do me a favor and click on the link to the dictionary definition of the term "sandbagging" that I conveniently provided twice. Nowhere in there does it include purposely trying to do poorly in any of the ways you are suggesting; rather, it has to do with not revealing any more than needs be revealed in order to win. You even gave away the crux of the matter by amending your previous rants to include "plays...that were installed for the game that he purposely didn't call in order to keep the score close." Of course he didn't hold back plays installed specifically for that game, and at no point in time have I even come close to making such an argument. If you interpret not opening the playbook to mean purely the plays installed for that game, you have an inherent misunderstanding of what "opening the playbook" means.

Just because you are convinced that sandbagging means acting in the juvenile manner of toying with an opponent, it simply isn't the case. Of course Gus wanted to score more points and have a more comfortable victory. And if you review my posts on the subject, the only thing I have suggested could be considered sandbagging in the Kansas State game is the way he called things pretty conservatively once we took a two score lead, because he wanted to minimize the chances of making a mistake and giving the game away. In fact, I've laid out a pretty strong case for how close Auburn was to winning by a much larger margin if not for a few critical miscues along the way. Most of the sandbagging has gone on against SJSU and La Tech...which I know I've alluded to, though I can't remember if I explicitly stated as much. And considering that this thread was started after the La Tech game, it stands to reason that no one has suggested that Gus went into the game with KSU trying to keep it close, even if you inferred as much.

Furthermore, the fact that you honestly believe Auburn was "fortunate" to beat K-State belies your mentality. I'm guessing that comment about Gus wanting to beat K-State by 50 is more a reflection upon your expectations of what should have happened than an honest evaluation of what actually happened. To review, Auburn trailed for less than four minutes IN THE ENTIRE GAME, all of which were in the first half, and Kansas State NEVER HAD THE BALL with a chance to take the lead after about midway through the third quarter. But you think Auburn was lucky to not turn the ball over and hand the game to the Wildcats on a silver platter?

I have provided more than enough logic to back up my argument, and still you're creating a straw man in order to validate your claim that some on here are "infected with an illogical case of blind homerism." I would suggest that you step back and think about the situation objectively, rather than digging in and fighting harder to prove that you're right.

[alexava 6,973]

Red, I'm not gonna be able to respond in great length per I'm using a phone. But are you aware that in football the defense can score on virtually any play? Digging and trying harder? Really? You just typed a novel.