Grading and Coaching up Defensive Talent

[AuburnNTexas 7,133]

In a post on Marquel Harrel I asked the following question and Mcloofus correctly pointed out that it was a good question but should be on a different thread so here goes.

Our O-Line recruiters continue to show that they know how to grade talent. They were the first to find Shon Coleman a few years ago when he was not rated highly same with Marquel. When you get on a kid early and others don't show a lot of interest and the kid blossoms the kid remembers you were the one touting him.

We haven't been able to find these type players on D since the Tuberville era. Where we would get 3* players and coach them up into top players. Over the years Auburn was one of the best at finding players who had the potential and the desire to get better and turn them into top notch SEC players. Kevin Green is a great example of this in the past why can't we seem to do this anymore. I am not saying you don't try and recruit the 5* type players but there still needs to be a diamond in the rough type player every year on D even if it takes a couple of years for the player to develop. Is the problem in rating talent or is it in coaching up players to quote the Army to be the best they can be.

[McLoofus 35,182]

I'm going to put most of it on coaching, but not all of it on this staff. Our seniors and, to some extent, our juniors still "have a lot of Chizik in them". So I think that partially explains it. The offense got whipped right back into shape, but they were only a year removed from Gus. The defense still had some scars that hadn't healed. I think that was a tiny bit of it this season.

We do know that Gus wasn't satisfied with CEJ's performance, though. That is obvious because he fired him. What I don't know is how much of that was recruiting-related. The poor performance on the field was glaring the second half of the season, and our defensive recruiting in this cycle is not currently adequate, so that might have something to do with it.

We had a good DB class this past year, and we had an amazing DL class the year before that. But we need and have needed a complete signing class on D, and that doesn't appear to be happening.

I guess the short answer is that I think there are guys out there who could get more out of what we've got, and I think there are guys out there who can bring in more talent than we look to be doing right now.

[cole256 17,042]

Smith pretty much politely told everybody I secondary wasn't that good when he first got here and he would bring in the type of corners he likes. Seems to me the type he said he like were moved to safety and star

[AuburnNTexas 7,133]

Smith pretty much politely told everybody I secondary wasn't that good when he first got here and he would bring in the type of corners he likes. Seems to me the type he said he like were moved to safety and star

Coaching up has to be part of the process though. One play stood out for me we had a player (I don't remember who) that gave Amari Cooper a huge buffer and then stood flat footed as Cooper ran at him and didn't start running until Cooper was almost on him. Cooper ran by him like he wasn't there and beat him by at least 5 yards or more on this play Cooper had to slow down a little and wait for the ball. It was obvious this DB was assigned to Cooper because he was riveted on him from time he started to end of play. He should have been retreating well before Cooper got to him that is technique and coaching. These DB's practice against two of the best receivers in football in Coates and Duke so you can't say they were not use to that type of size or speed. That is on the coach if in a year you can't teach a DB how to retreat before the receiver gets to you. After Cooper burns you deep the DC makes an adjustment he assigns one player to take away the deep ball that is what Bama did against Coates so that even though Sammy caught more deep balls there was a player or two with him and he just beat them because he was better to often Cooper was alone that is on the coach.

[Mikey 16,565]

Dee Ford was a 3* at best, so there's one that was coached up. Kevin Greene walked on to Pat Dye's team, with no offers from anybody.

Our problem may be evaluation, just taking 4* guys because of their ratings without doing proper evaluations.

Lawson and Adams were already recruited to AU by Chizik's staff. Our new staff was able to keep them so that's no better than a joint effort. Daniel has been our only top of the line guy recruited solely by this staff for the D-line that has played so far. There are a couple or three redshirts lurking that may show out in the spring.

The group of five D-linemen seniors that are graduating after this season has been a major disappointment.

Blame Chizik, Gus, the constant changing of D-coordinators or what have you, we need serious improvement in the front seven! I think if that gets better, the D-backs will look a lot different.

[metafour 4,966]

Lawson and Adams were already recruited to AU by Chizik's staff.

Adams had little interest in us prior to the coaching change. So while he was "recruited" by the previous staff, don't try and pretend like they were part of the reason we got him. He didn't start showing real interest until we took Garner away from UGA, which is where he was expected to go.

[cole256 17,042]

Smith pretty much politely told everybody I secondary wasn't that good when he first got here and he would bring in the type of corners he likes. Seems to me the type he said he like were moved to safety and star

Coaching up has to be part of the process though. One play stood out for me we had a player (I don't remember who) that gave Amari Cooper a huge buffer and then stood flat footed as Cooper ran at him and didn't start running until Cooper was almost on him. Cooper ran by him like he wasn't there and beat him by at least 5 yards or more on this play Cooper had to slow down a little and wait for the ball. It was obvious this DB was assigned to Cooper because he was riveted on him from time he started to end of play. He should have been retreating well before Cooper got to him that is technique and coaching. These DB's practice against two of the best receivers in football in Coates and Duke so you can't say they were not use to that type of size or speed. That is on the coach if in a year you can't teach a DB how to retreat before the receiver gets to you. After Cooper burns you deep the DC makes an adjustment he assigns one player to take away the deep ball that is what Bama did against Coates so that even though Sammy caught more deep balls there was a player or two with him and he just beat them because he was better to often Cooper was alone that is on the coach.

It was mincy. But that's what Smith said he said he's going to coach up what he has. Mincy has had discipline problems since he's been here. He was getting personal fouls in 2011 I noticed during the bowl game against Virginia. I'm sure you remember Lawson jumping him against bammer last year when he almost cost us that one...

I sort of give Smith the benefit of doubt because out of all the coaching hires his resume spoke for itself. He was sending a guy to the nfl pretty much every year and two high picks coming to us and banks didn't even play corner in high school.

Also the year before he came van gorder said we didn't have the talent to play man to man and the next year with the same players Smith improved the guys. To me he's the guy coaching the least talent

And as far as the scheme to double you're absolutely right but that's Johnson's call not Smith's

[AuburnNTexas 7,133]

Smith pretty much politely told everybody I secondary wasn't that good when he first got here and he would bring in the type of corners he likes. Seems to me the type he said he like were moved to safety and star

Coaching up has to be part of the process though. One play stood out for me we had a player (I don't remember who) that gave Amari Cooper a huge buffer and then stood flat footed as Cooper ran at him and didn't start running until Cooper was almost on him. Cooper ran by him like he wasn't there and beat him by at least 5 yards or more on this play Cooper had to slow down a little and wait for the ball. It was obvious this DB was assigned to Cooper because he was riveted on him from time he started to end of play. He should have been retreating well before Cooper got to him that is technique and coaching. These DB's practice against two of the best receivers in football in Coates and Duke so you can't say they were not use to that type of size or speed. That is on the coach if in a year you can't teach a DB how to retreat before the receiver gets to you. After Cooper burns you deep the DC makes an adjustment he assigns one player to take away the deep ball that is what Bama did against Coates so that even though Sammy caught more deep balls there was a player or two with him and he just beat them because he was better to often Cooper was alone that is on the coach.

It was mincy. But that's what Smith said he said he's going to coach up what he has. Mincy has had discipline problems since he's been here. He was getting personal fouls in 2011 I noticed during the bowl game against Virginia. I'm sure you remember Lawson jumping him against bammer last year when he almost cost us that one...

I sort of give Smith the benefit of doubt because out of all the coaching hires his resume spoke for itself. He was sending a guy to the nfl pretty much every year and two high picks coming to us and banks didn't even play corner in high school.

Also the year before he came van gorder said we didn't have the talent to play man to man and the next year with the same players Smith improved the guys. To me he's the guy coaching the least talent

And as far as the scheme to double you're absolutely right but that's Johnson's call not Smith's

Wasn't blaming Smith for not doing a Double team on Cooper I agree that was on CEJ, Also once we realized we didn't have a dominating pass rush I would have expected us to drop the man to man as that only works if you can get to QB within a reasonable time, id you can't you adjust. Zone has its own issues but you shouldn't be giving up big plays in a zone.

[cole256 17,042]

Yeah we both agree anything but a press man to man cover. We didn't even make Simms have to check down in the second half

[mcgufcm 4,096]

Sometimes we had a bracket on Cooper called, but the guys still have to execute. On the 75 yard pass, that was double coverage. Mincy just didn't get a jam at the line so the Safety didn't have time to make up the ground. There was Safety help, but Mincy just free released the WR. Can't do that.

I said two years ago, and I continue to say, CB is the position most in need of an upgrade. We're a far, far cry from guys like Carlos Rogers, Jae Wilhite, David Irons, Jerraud Powers, and Walt McFadden that we had in the past. Jones looks like he's got some talent and timing. He's the most natural CB I've seen here since 2009, but you need at least 3. Not one. Minimum of three quality CBs or you have problems. We've got work to do on that front. The Safeties will be better next year with Matthews and Ford starting. The LBs made a big move this year and should be even better next year with another year. The DEs get a fix-all in Lawson, and Lambert was already a good player this year. There's work to be done across the board, but CB needs the most help.

[AU64 10,122]

Sometimes we had a bracket on Cooper called, but the guys still have to execute. On the 75 yard pass, that was double coverage. Mincy just didn't get a jam at the line so the Safety didn't have time to make up the ground. There was Safety help, but Mincy just free released the WR. Can't do that.

I said two years ago, and I continue to say, CB is the position most in need of an upgrade. We're a far, far cry from guys like Carlos Rogers, Jae Wilhite, David Irons, Jerraud Powers, and Walt McFadden that we had in the past. Jones looks like he's got some talent and timing. He's the most natural CB I've seen here since 2009, but you need at least 3. Not one. Minimum of three quality CBs or you have problems. We've got work to do on that front. The Safeties will be better next year with Matthews and Ford starting. The LBs made a big move this year and should be even better next year with another year. The DEs get a fix-all in Lawson, and Lambert was already a good player this year. There's work to be done across the board, but CB needs the most help.

None of our guys have been able to jam up the good receivers at the LOS...Cooper had free run all over the field no matter which side of the offense he was lined up. The bama DBs chucked our guys all night long and it was not easy for Duke or Sammie or Bray either, to get past them and most of their catches were made with DBs hanging all over them.

Let a guy like Cooper (and a dozen others) get a ten yard start before they get to the Safety or DB and the defender can just kiss them good bye. Maybe it's coaching or maybe the players just can't pull it off....I just recall that on a number of plays this year the opponent's receivers crossed the goal line with two AU DBs looking at each other like...."I thought you had him".

[tinman 305]

Before the season began I was told by someone who is on the sidelines at every AU game that our DB talent "leaves a lot to be desired". He honestly felt that by the end of the season Steven Roberts and Kalvarez Bessert would be getting a lot of playing time as they appear to have some skills. Didn't happen so maybe they are not as good as advertised.

[war eagle6 0]

They were never given a chance with the previous coach

[AUFAN78 3,892]

They were never given a chance with the previous coach

I am told this is not true.

[milehighfan 1,240]

Our DL just never got any better as the years went by. I truly thought Blackson would turn out to be a player, mainly because he was recruited by Syracuse to play basketball. He never materialized and neither did Gabe Wright. i remember when Dye was head coach Auburn always seemed to have some defensive lineman who would DOMINATE! Hopefully, the return of Lawson will and some infusion of new blood along the defensive front will make a difference.

[AU64 10,122]

Our DL just never got any better as the years went by. I truly thought Blackson would turn out to be a player, mainly because he was recruited by Syracuse to play basketball. He never materialized and neither did Gabe Wright. i remember when Dye was head coach Auburn always seemed to have some defensive lineman who would DOMINATE! Hopefully, the return of Lawson will and some infusion of new blood along the defensive front will make a difference.

Lambert had come on pretty well for pass rushing ...missed him in the bama game....hope he is back next year...knee injury...Otherwise, pass rush never developed...but never have heard Garner say what was missing this year.

[wareagleguy 1,393]

Our defensive backfield leaves a lot to be desired. I really expected the young guys to get more playing time too. It seems more of the same that we get recruits and they don't turn out. At least the young guys have a lot more time to be coached up and hopefully they will come on and be ready headed into next season.

[Randman5000 4,226]

Yeah we both agree anything but a press man to man cover. We didn't even make Simms have to check down in the second half

Letting a guy run right past you is not man to man. Just don't have the players on the edge for it... consistency that's the word. But even hargreaves got beat but not that bad

[AUApostle 7,651]

Trooper and Looper seemed to like to recruit to win recruiting national championships, which is dangerous because other important factors that are needed for team chemistry, growth, and work ethic get overlooked. One poster was telling a story of how Lolley would get his diamond in the rough guys vetoed by Trooper.

[AU64 10,122]

would have to look back to see who recruited who but not that long ago we were sending at least one DB to the NFL each year and all of a sudden not a single prospect far as I can tell.

[cole256 17,042]

Trooper and Looper seemed to like to recruit to win recruiting national championships, which is dangerous because other important factors that are needed for team chemistry, growth, and work ethic get overlooked. One poster was telling a story of how Lolley would get his diamond in the rough guys vetoed by Trooper.

Think about this....

[Mikey 16,565]

Lawson and Adams were already recruited to AU by Chizik's staff.

Adams had little interest in us prior to the coaching change. So while he was "recruited" by the previous staff, don't try and pretend like they were part of the reason we got him. He didn't start showing real interest until we took Garner away from UGA, which is where he was expected to go.

Well then, you claim to know a lot more than those who were saying that Adams was a silent commit to AU before the coaching change. I'm not buying your version.

[Magnolia and College 1]

Lawson and Adams were already recruited to AU by Chizik's staff.

Adams had little interest in us prior to the coaching change. So while he was "recruited" by the previous staff, don't try and pretend like they were part of the reason we got him. He didn't start showing real interest until we took Garner away from UGA, which is where he was expected to go.

Well then, you claim to know a lot more than those who were saying that Adams was a silent commit to AU before the coaching change. I'm not buying your version.

Since when do you buy anybody's version but yours?

I believe "those" said he was early on but that changed. I believe he said after signing that AL had moved up before we reclaimed the lead. I'm sure Ellitor may remember or can access that info relatively quickly.

[Mikey 16,565]

Lawson and Adams were already recruited to AU by Chizik's staff.

Adams had little interest in us prior to the coaching change. So while he was "recruited" by the previous staff, don't try and pretend like they were part of the reason we got him. He didn't start showing real interest until we took Garner away from UGA, which is where he was expected to go.

Well then, you claim to know a lot more than those who were saying that Adams was a silent commit to AU before the coaching change. I'm not buying your version.

Since when do you buy anybody's version but yours?

I believe "those" said he was early on but that changed. I believe he said after signing that AL had moved up before we reclaimed the lead. I'm sure Ellitor may remember or can access that info relatively quickly.

So, we agree that at some point Adams was a silent commit to AU. As I said above, the heavy lifting had already been done by the previous staff.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Regardless of how any highly rated recruits landed at Auburn, remember that a lot of other schools were recruiting them heavily, also.

And keep in mind that blue chip guys flame out everywhere. When it happens at Alabama, we cry foul and say they got processed (which is true, but only after they don't pan out on the field). When it happens at UGA, we say that Richt is an idiot and can't win with superior talent.

Yes, we have had 3*s turn into 5*s at Auburn (Sen'Derrick Marks is another), but it's hardly the norm, and it's not like 3*s are scrubs to begin with. And if you want to talk about chasing recruiting national championships, then you should probably also mention the team who has been winning both those and real national championships* more than anybody. We all made fun of bammers for claiming that first recruiting title, and then some players in that class ended up winning 2 crystal balls. FSU, LSU, UF, us... the teams who have been bringing home the hardware have also been bringing in the blue chip guys. Talent wins championships.

*Don't turn this into a debate over the legitimacy of the BCS titles bama has won. Just don't.