Defensive Coordinator Diiscussion

[AuburnNTexas 7,127]

Guys I have never seen so much over analyses in my life. It started with Muschamp is close to signing but their are still some staffing issues to resolve. From that we have gone on adnauseum analyzing most of the D coaches deciding who will stay who will leave who is a bad coach. The conversation on Garner in particular has shown how little many know but think they are football gods. You don't rate a coach on a single season. Our DT's did get penetration this year but because our ends were not very good pass rushers the backs were able to pick them up. With a good pass rushing DE the back has to pick up the DE then the DT makes the play. We lost a lot more at DE then many people realize. Craig Sanders had more of an impact then many realized last year.even when Dee ford was not on the Field. Owens was healthy last you and made plays he was never really healthy this year so no impact no Lawson this year. As the year went on Lambert was starting to look like a pass rushing DE then he gets hurt.

Coach Garner's body of work throughout his coaching career speaks for itself. Now as to whether he will stay as line coach, go to another position, or be let go that is what the discussions between Gus and Muschamp are about. Same for other position coaches, I seriously doubt this will be a stumbling block it is just part of the negotiating process.

By the way when all is said and done if we get Muschamp and Garner is kept, or moved or let go it won't be because Garner is not a good line coach it will be because Gus thinks it is important to allow a new DC to have the type of Control that was denied Franklin a few years ago. Some of the discussions about new coaches versus old coaches is probably about finances also Gus and Will have been around a while and understand that also.

[ClaytonAU 4,606]

They had great penetration all year and our DB's couldn't cover a slant or a screen.

Yeah...no.

Um yea if you didn't see the Interior lines penetration in the run game and in the passing game then you need glasses

Dude, the pass rush was MIA on 90% of our snaps this year. I don't necessarily fault Garner for that, but it's true.

Probably because there was no elite pass rusher.

Lots of teams don't have an elite pass rusher but can still get pressure. It certainly helps, but you shouldn't need a transcendent talent on the line to get some pressure fairly consistently.

So you think Dee Ford is a transcendent talent? He was very good over achiever who had a knack for making a big play at a critical moment. Auburn had neither this season on defense. Lawson may turn into that kind of player but that's a heavy mantle to put on a young player. Losing those 2 hurt Auburn a lot more than I thought it would but it was the only difference but I wouldn't classify either as transcendent talents.

He was considered an elite pass rusher...hence being a first round draft pick. My point is simply that you do not need a Jadaveon Clowney to get a consistent pass rush if your tackles are performing.

Gotcha. We certainly didn't have any pressure from the edge this year and when EJ was expressing concerns about it preseason I had no idea it would become such a glaring liability. Dee hasn't lived up to his elite status and neither has Lemonier but Corey wasn't a 1st round pick. My point is Dee was very good but not transcendent and the fact that he rarely if ever plays for KC seems to bear that out. Auburn simply lacked quickness and athleticism from the outside and they covered it up pretty well early but couldn't keep it covered.

Every first round draft pick is supposed to be elite their ROOKIE season? He went from a DE to an LB and is making the transition. Give him a break.

[Strychnine 1,802]

I would agree that I would like to see RG retained. That said, I also know that if Muschamp were recommending replacing him, there would be a reason for it that Muschamp could clearly articulate to Gus. He certainly knows more about coaching defense and evaluating assistants than I do, so I'd defer to his judgment there. I think Gus is also smart enough to know that Muschamp knows more about coaching defense in college football in general (and the SEC specifically) than he does too.

i

f you want Rodney Gardner to stay because he is a proven coach and auburn man that is warranted. But to say you want a coach to stay on staff for "recruiting purposes" sounds a lot like how a lot of people wanted to keep our towel waiving friend of the Chizik era here after Malzahn was hired.

Personally, I think Garner is a good and proven coach. I also consider it a bonus that he is an Auburn man, as I do like seeing former players able to come back home as coaches. However, all I was saying is that if Garner is an issue for whatever reason, then I would defer to Muschamp's judgment if he was indeed seeking to replace him.

[TheBlueVue 177]

They had great penetration all year and our DB's couldn't cover a slant or a screen.

Yeah...no.

Um yea if you didn't see the Interior lines penetration in the run game and in the passing game then you need glasses

Dude, the pass rush was MIA on 90% of our snaps this year. I don't necessarily fault Garner for that, but it's true.

Probably because there was no elite pass rusher.

Lots of teams don't have an elite pass rusher but can still get pressure. It certainly helps, but you shouldn't need a transcendent talent on the line to get some pressure fairly consistently.

So you think Dee Ford is a transcendent talent? He was very good over achiever who had a knack for making a big play at a critical moment. Auburn had neither this season on defense. Lawson may turn into that kind of player but that's a heavy mantle to put on a young player. Losing those 2 hurt Auburn a lot more than I thought it would but it was the only difference but I wouldn't classify either as transcendent talents.

He was considered an elite pass rusher...hence being a first round draft pick. My point is simply that you do not need a Jadaveon Clowney to get a consistent pass rush if your tackles are performing.

Gotcha. We certainly didn't have any pressure from the edge this year and when EJ was expressing concerns about it preseason I had no idea it would become such a glaring liability. Dee hasn't lived up to his elite status and neither has Lemonier but Corey wasn't a 1st round pick. My point is Dee was very good but not transcendent and the fact that he rarely if ever plays for KC seems to bear that out. Auburn simply lacked quickness and athleticism from the outside and they covered it up pretty well early but couldn't keep it covered.

Every first round draft pick is supposed to be elite their ROOKIE season? He went from a DE to an LB and is making the transition. Give him a break.

of course not but they play and that's the point. I hope he makes it but the odds are really pretty long against him. Playing in the NFL is a much harder transition from the college game than from HS to college.

[McLoofus 35,182]

"Pro football performance has nothing to do with college football performance."

Oh, I agree but my response was to the use of "transcendent talent". If Dee Ford was a transcendent talent he'd be playing on Sundays...he's on a team and that says a lot but transcendent talents play. My point being Auburn didn't have a transcendent talent and got pretty consistent pass rush last year form a true freshman and an over-achiever who earned his elite status

Gotcha, that makes sense. I'd still argue that there are the Tim Tebows out there, but if you were to counter that QB and DE are completely different conversations in terms of how college talent translates to the NFL, you'd be right

[McLoofus 35,182]

Guys I have never seen so much over analyses in my life. It started with Muschamp is close to signing but their are still some staffing issues to resolve. From that we have gone on adnauseum analyzing most of the D coaches deciding who will stay who will leave who is a bad coach. The conversation on Garner in particular has shown how little many know but think they are football gods.

Respectfully, until you click on a thread that says, "Muschamp's been hired" or something to that effect, this is what you're gonna get.

[Ed_ 3]

Guys I have never seen so much over analyses in my life. It started with Muschamp is close to signing but their are still some staffing issues to resolve. From that we have gone on adnauseum analyzing most of the D coaches deciding who will stay who will leave who is a bad coach. The conversation on Garner in particular has shown how little many know but think they are football gods. You don't rate a coach on a single season. Our DT's did get penetration this year but because our ends were not very good pass rushers the backs were able to pick them up. With a good pass rushing DE the back has to pick up the DE then the DT makes the play. We lost a lot more at DE then many people realize. Craig Sanders had more of an impact then many realized last year.even when Dee ford was not on the Field. Owens was healthy last you and made plays he was never really healthy this year so no impact no Lawson this year. As the year went on Lambert was starting to look like a pass rushing DE then he gets hurt.

Coach Garner's body of work throughout his coaching career speaks for itself. Now as to whether he will stay as line coach, go to another position, or be let go that is what the discussions between Gus and Muschamp are about. Same for other position coaches, I seriously doubt this will be a stumbling block it is just part of the negotiating process.

By the way when all is said and done if we get Muschamp and Garner is kept, or moved or let go it won't be because Garner is not a good line coach it will be because Gus thinks it is important to allow a new DC to have the type of Control that was denied Franklin a few years ago. Some of the discussions about new coaches versus old coaches is probably about finances also Gus and Will have been around a while and understand that also.

We don't want none of your stupid logic!!!

[TheBlueVue 177]

"Pro football performance has nothing to do with college football performance."

Oh, I agree but my response was to the use of "transcendent talent". If Dee Ford was a transcendent talent he'd be playing on Sundays...he's on a team and that says a lot but transcendent talents play. My point being Auburn didn't have a transcendent talent and got pretty consistent pass rush last year form a true freshman and an over-achiever who earned his elite status

Gotcha, that makes sense. I'd still argue that there are the Tim Tebows out there, but if you were to counter that QB and DE are completely different conversations in terms of how college talent translates to the NFL, you'd be right

I dont know that I'd make that argument because Im not sure there is a position in the NFL thats easy to transition to from college ball.

[AUsince72 11,084]

Guys I have never seen so much over analyses in my life. It started with Muschamp is close to signing but their are still some staffing issues to resolve. From that we have gone on adnauseum analyzing most of the D coaches deciding who will stay who will leave who is a bad coach. The conversation on Garner in particular has shown how little many know but think they are football gods.

Respectfully, until you click on a thread that says, "Muschamp's been hired" or something to that effect, this is what you're gonna get.

Yes, no offense to AUnTX but if only those who had the knowledge of "football gods" were allowed to post their opinions, the Message Board/Forum community would cease to exist in 2 days. It's all just fun speculation to pass the time for now....

[McLoofus 35,182]

Just in case it does affect Muschamp moving forward:

The buyout issues have been resolved, and Florida is expected to announce Jim McElwain as its coach later today.

@ClowESPN

[TitanTiger 20,471]

Just in case it does affect Muschamp moving forward:

The buyout issues have been resolved, and Florida is expected to announce Jim McElwain as its coach later today.

@ClowESPN

How does it affect Muschamp that McElwain's buyout at CSU has been resolved?

[Strychnine 1,802]

"Pro football performance has nothing to do with college football performance."

Oh, I agree but my response was to the use of "transcendent talent". If Dee Ford was a transcendent talent he'd be playing on Sundays...he's on a team and that says a lot but transcendent talents play. My point being Auburn didn't have a transcendent talent and got pretty consistent pass rush last year form a true freshman and an over-achiever who earned his elite status

Gotcha, that makes sense. I'd still argue that there are the Tim Tebows out there, but if you were to counter that QB and DE are completely different conversations in terms of how college talent translates to the NFL, you'd be right

I dont know that I'd make that argument because Im not sure there is a position in the NFL thats easy to transition to from college ball.

Cam made the QB position look like an easy transition. Then again, he's certainly one of those transcendent talents.

[TheBlueVue 177]

Just in case it does affect Muschamp moving forward:

The buyout issues have been resolved, and Florida is expected to announce Jim McElwain as its coach later today.

@ClowESPN

Is the conventional wisdom that the dominoes will start to fall once UF makes their hire?

[AUinNashTN 0]

I think someone mentioned earlier that the unknowns surrounding some of the Assistant's at UF could be holding up some of the talks between AU and CWM. Speculation I would say.

[1TexasTiger 55]

Wow this is ridiculous. Let's try to understand what the lack of having an edge rusher could do.

1) DEs this year

Strongside

Lambert 6'2" 293 lbs

Daniel 6'2" 263 lbs

Wright 6'3" 284 lbs (swing)

Weakside

President 6'4" 259 lbs

Owens 6'2" 259 lbs

King 6'2" 213 lbs (cinco package)

In a passing situation without a speed rusher here is how the o-line can take away our strength.

TE T G C G T

SDE DT NT WDE

The TE can handle the SDE (This is our best matchup)

The RT and RG double the DT (Adams)

The C and LG double the NT (Wright)

The LT(usually the best OL) handles the weakest part of the line.

Who was the best DLman tis year? Lambert!!!

Why because he had the favorable matchup.

Garner can still coach and recruit, but if you are missing pieces it doesn't always work.

Please stop berating the man as if he is failing at his job. He is in year number 2. Some of you would have been fired from your jobs week 2 if the same logic was applied to you.

[auburntigerer 0]

I have been told that Rocker is likely to come to Auburn now, my guess is that Muschamp wants to bring him and T-Rob with him.

[Strychnine 1,802]

Is the conventional wisdom that the dominoes will start to fall once UF makes their hire?

I would say it depends. Some of Muschamp's defensive staff at Florida may want to consider remaining with Florida's new HC before making the ultimate decision about whether or not to go wherever with Muschamp.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Just in case it does affect Muschamp moving forward:

The buyout issues have been resolved, and Florida is expected to announce Jim McElwain as its coach later today.

@ClowESPN

How does it affect Muschamp that McElwain's buyout at CSU has been resolved?

Well, I did say "just in case" to clarify that I'm not making any statements on how this would or would not affect Muschamp. You picked up on that, right?

But since you asked, it has been posited (not sure if in this thread or elsewhere on this forum) that Muschamp finalizing a deal elsewhere might be contingent upon UF finalizing a deal with their new guy because retention of Muschamp's subordinates (read: Travaris Robinson) might be a point of negotiation, for UF's new guy and/or Muschamp. So while that tweet cites buyout issues, it's just a tweet from some guy who might not be privy to the entire conversation. Dissemination of incomplete information on the Internet happens sometimes.

[wildlife alumni 304]

Found an article saying we could be a week away from signing Muschamp. It is from 247 but is free article ( I do not have an account and can read it) so I am guessing it is ok to post the link.

http://auburn.247sports.com/Article/PMARSHONAU-Good-news-bad-news-in-Auburn-search-33533469

[Tiger1992 999]

Has anyone checked back in with Armando for an update? He seems to be the best source we have.

[lutzintheredzone 0]

Garner sucks he can go, I pray for Rocker..last time we had a d line with balls was with him their. Fairley,Clayton,Blanc,Goggans,Equae they were nasty.

[McLoofus 35,182]

"Pro football performance has nothing to do with college football performance."

Oh, I agree but my response was to the use of "transcendent talent". If Dee Ford was a transcendent talent he'd be playing on Sundays...he's on a team and that says a lot but transcendent talents play. My point being Auburn didn't have a transcendent talent and got pretty consistent pass rush last year form a true freshman and an over-achiever who earned his elite status

Gotcha, that makes sense. I'd still argue that there are the Tim Tebows out there, but if you were to counter that QB and DE are completely different conversations in terms of how college talent translates to the NFL, you'd be right

I dont know that I'd make that argument because Im not sure there is a position in the NFL thats easy to transition to from college ball.

Oh, well in that case there is an extremely long list of transcendent college football talents who didn't make it in the NFL, just like transcendent high school talents regularly flame out in college. The counter argument I offered to myself is that quarterback is a more nuanced position than DE, and you are more likely to succeed strictly on pure athletic skill at the latter position than the former.

[ClaytonAU 4,606]

Garner sucks he can go, I pray for Rocker..last time we had a d line with balls was with him their. Fairley,Clayton,Blanc,Goggans,Equae they were nasty.

Lol go home you're drunk.

[AuburnTiger4Life 2,225]

People forget how important Garner is when it comes to recruiting. Without him we don't have Lawson or Adams.

[ClaytonAU 4,606]

People forget how important Garner is when it comes to recruiting. Without him we don't have Lawson or Adams.

I'd say yes on Adams, not so much on Lawson. Lawson had bad blood with UGA and Garner before the staff turnover.