The Law and Grace Discussion

[Weegle777 78]

Wanted to bump this for all to see.

[Weegle777 78]

....

[aubfaninga 16]

Here is 2 hours of study just on one certain subject in Hebrews. No human ideas or doctrines just sound use of scripture.

I promise that even if you do not agree with everything, if you just take the time to watch these videos and point by point refute anything you see in error by using scripture you will definitely have a greater appreciation of scripture.

Here is an example of two different groups reading the same verses... (less than 5 minutes)

Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2ilBt7NFio

Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7VhdgSdTtw

[aubfaninga 16]

I had to bring this back up concerning something that was written lately.

Weegle777 wrote

"The amazing thing about Grace, is that all things are permissible,but not all things are profitable. I can cheat on my wife as many times as I want to. Under Grace, I can. Now, I will probably lose my family and be smeared in the public eye, but I can do that. It is also permissible for me under Grace, to do drugs and drink heavily. I will probably lose my job and maybe even my life, but I am allowed to do that. There is no rule that says that I can't do something.

A Christian that believes in Christ can be a homosexual. There is no rule that states otherwise with Grace, because we aren't under the law anymore. But again, not all things are profitable."

How can you say that you can cheat on your wife all you want?

All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. (1 Cor. 6:12)

Here is a nice read...

Some people charge those of us who hold to the Free Grace position with antinomianism. That is, some say we promote sin and tell people that they can do whatever they want and God won't care since they are in Christ. We don't teach that; but the charge is made nonetheless.

On the other hand, others charge us with legalism. They say that since we call believers to obey God's commands we are legalists. These are those who do say that since we are in Christ there are no laws or rules for us anymore.

Recently while tracking down verses that show that NT believers are under law (e.g., Rom. 8:7; James 1:25), I ran across 1 Corinthians 6:12. What on earth did Paul mean when he said that "All things are lawful for me"?

Whatever he meant, he clearly did not mean that it was acceptable for Christians to defile the marriage bed, lie, cheat, murder, get drunk, covet, etc. Notice the three verses which precede verse 12. There Paul warns that the unrighteous-adulterers, homosexuals, thieves. covetous, drunkards, revilers and the like-will not inherit (i.e., possess, have a position of rulership in) the kingdom of God. Likewise, in the subsequent verses Paul commands them to flee immorality (v 18) and to glorify God in their bodies (v 20).

In several of his letters Paul gave lists of sins, things which were unlawful for Christians. See, for example, Ephesians 5:3-5, Galatians 5:19-21, and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11--the verses immediately preceding the verse in question. In Romans 8:7ff Paul refers to the believer's obligation to obey "the law of God." Yes, Paul taught that believers are no longer under the Law of Moses (Rom 10:4; Gal 3:25; 4:9-12, 21-31). However, he did not teach that we are under no law of any kind. We are under the commands of the New Testament. (By the way, nine of the ten commandments are repeated in the New Testament.)

The expression "All things are lawful for me" was evidently a slogan that the Corinthian Christians had adopted and used to rationalize their sinful behavior. Paul's use of their slogan certainly got their attention.

When Paul refers to "all things" he, unlike the Corinthians who coined the slogan, means all things not specifically forbidden in Scripture. This is crystal clear in the immediate (6:1-20) and broader (8:1-11:1). Paul is referring to our liberty in unspecified areas. There is much freedom in our walk with Christ. We can choose any car, any apartment or house, any clothes, any food, any sport, etc., yet with two prominent restrictions.

Paul's first restriction to our liberty in unspecified things concerns its effect on others in the body: "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful." If our choice of clothes or food or the like will cause fellow believers to stumble, we are to restrict our freedom (1 Cor. 8-10).

Some modern fashions for women clearly violate this principle. For Christian women to wear seductive clothing anywhere but in the privacy of their own homes is to put a stumbling block in the path of others. That is not helpful behavior and hence it is to be avoided even though no verse may specifically forbid that particular fashion.

Paul's second restriction to our liberty in unspecified matters concerns addictions: "All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." To be addicted to anything, even things which are not forbidden in Scripture, is wrong.

How many believers today are under the power of television? Studies show that the average American watches forty plus hours of TV a week! Believers are not immune to this problem. Even if we are watching wholesome shows and Christian broadcasts, we are to restrict our freedom here so as not to squander our talents and abilities.

Golf, softball, fishing, hunting, bridge, running, biking, hiking, yardwork, reading, and even our jobs all are morally neutral, and yet can become harmful addictions if we are not careful. Husbands may neglect their wives and children to pursue one or more these things and may rationalize their behavior by saying, "What's wrong with fishing, golf, or whatever? It isn't forbidden in Scripture."

If I may tackle a major moral malady today, the consumption of wine and alcohol in my opinion falls in this category. The Scriptures do not forbid drinking altogether. However, in light of the high percentage of alcohol and drug addiction in our world today, would not a wise steward choose to abstain altogether? This would be wise both from the standpoint of not causing your brother to stumble and not opening yourself up to a very addicting substance. For example, if a pastor, elder, or deacon is seen drinking, would this not send the message to the youth and adults in the church that drinking is OK? Might this not contribute to the downfall of many? Indeed, I think it would and does. This is not only true of those in positions of leadership, but of all in the body.

Paul's point is that we have liberty in areas not specifically forbidden in Scripture with two restrictions. We are to restrict our liberty when to exercise it would injure a fellow believer. And, we are to restrict our liberty when we find that we are becoming or could become addicted to something.

[Weegle777 78]

If that is the case, then we, as believers, aren't truly free. We are bound still to the law. I point you toward Hebrews where the author states:

Hebrews 6:4-6

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

The author was stating that when you have been saved by Grace, and then resort back to law based principles, you crucify Jesus all over again, thereby subjecting Him to public disgrace.

[aubfaninga 16]

FALSE!!! The author was stating that when you have been saved by Grace, and then resort back to the worldy and fleshly lusts that put him on the cross (our sins), you crucify Jesus all over again, thereby subjecting Him to public disgrace. Just like getting a DUI the same day your father bails you out of jail. It publicly makes him look like a fool.

Where I was released from the Law of sin and death I was bound to Christ. Romans 7-9

Now I know for sure you and I are definitely speaking about TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT GOSPELS.

It is one thing for a stranger to the faith to resist Christ. But it is another thing for a person who has been in the church and has been enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift and become a partaker of the Holy Spirit and tasted of the good word of God and the powers of the age to come it's another thing for that person to say after all those blessings and all those experiences: I think what the world offers is better than this. That is a re-crucifying of Jesus and a putting him to public shame worse than any outsider could, who never tasted the truth.

The author of Hebrews says let us move past the elementary doctrines that bring one to the faith so that we may now grow and mature in the FAITH.

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."

This chapter is leading up to explaining the LIVING CHRIST that we were born into upon our baptism. It's all about his role as priest for us in heaven(if you keep on reading it explains in very great detail). John said it best so a child could understand, "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One." It was an assurance for all time that GOD would honor what his son did and we were never to doubt this. Here is where the path gets different for you and I.

Hebrews is also about warning against a false assurance and a false salvation.

Hebrews does this is with warnings about false security. There is a kind of happiness that will kill you. And the book of Hebrews is relentlessly loving and gentle in exposing this dangerous happiness and warning us to flee from its deceptions and pursue the solid happiness that will never let us down. In other words, Hebrews is written to deepen and strengthen the joy of our assurance in God, and one of the strategies of the book is to expose false assurances and fleeting pleasures.

That's what we are reading in Hebrews 6:4-8. This passage says that there is a >>>spiritual condition<<<<<<<< (2 Timothy 3-4 "itchy ears", Jude 1, Galatians 6:7-9, James 1, 1 Corinthians 6:9) this condition and gospel makes repentance and salvation "impossible". And it says that this condition may look in many ways like salvation, but it isn't. And it leads to destruction. And so this text is a warning to us not to assume that we are secure when our lives have some religious experiences but no growing fruit. And the reason for showing us this serious situation is so that we will flee from it, and move to solid ground and lasting joy.

Let's look at the flow of thought. Hebrews 6:1 said, "Let us press on to maturity." And verse 3 said, "This we will do if God permits." In other words, whether we have the grace to overcome our natural pride and rebellion and unbelief will depend ultimately on God.

Now verses 4-8 illustrate this utter dependence on God by showing that there is a situation where repentance and pressing on to maturity is impossible. And since it is impossible, we should shudder at the prospect of being in this situation and we should see how utterly dependent we are on the sovereign God of verse 3.

What is this situation where repentance is impossible? It is described like this:

"For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame." (Hebrews 6:4-6)

The situation is this: first, someone receives great blessings and has high religious experiences (verses 4-5). And then second, that same person falls away and, in doing so, re-crucifies the Son of God and puts him to an open shame. And then third, it is impossible to renew that person to repentance.

1. There are great blessings and high religious experiences.

He mentions four. First, a person may be "enlightened" (verse 4). Second, a person may have tasted the heavenly gift and become a partaker of the Holy Spirit (verse 4). The heavenly gift probably is the Holy Spirit. Third, a person may have tasted the good word of God (verse 5). And fourth, the person may have tasted the powers of the age to come (verse 5; see Hebrews 2:4).

2. In spite of all these blessings and experiences, this person then falls away (verse 6).

That is, he falls away from Christ and the Spirit and the word and the powers of the age to come. He turns his back on the worth of these great realities and goes after other things with his heart. The effect of this is to re-crucify Christ and put him to open shame.

There are at least two reasons why this kind of apostasy is re-crucifixion of Christ.

One is that Christ was crucified the first time to make his people pure and holy. That's why he shed his blood. Hebrews 13:12 says, "Jesus also suffered outside the gate that He might sanctify the people through His own blood." He died to sanctify us. He died to make us pure and holy and devoted to him (see Hebrews 9:14; Titus 2:14). So when we turn our backs on purity and holiness and devotion, which his cross was designed to bring about, we say yes to the impurity and worldliness and unbelief that nailed him there in the first place. Which means we crucify him again.

There is another reason this kind of falling away is a re-crucifying of Christ. When a person chooses against Christ and turns back to the way of the world and the sovereignty of his own will and the fleeting pleasures of earth, he says in effect that these are worth more than Christ is worth. They are worth more than the love of Christ and the wisdom of Christ and the power of Christ and all that God promises to be for us in Christ. And when a person says that, it is the same as saying: I agree with the crucifiers of Jesus. Because what could shame Christ more today than to have someone taste his goodness and wisdom and power and then say: No, there is something better and more to be desired. That puts him to a public shame.

3. Which leads, to the conclusion that "it is impossible to renew [such a person] again to repentance" (verse 6).

Hebrews 12:16-17

[Let] there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.

Will genuine repentance be rejected by God? Don't make the mistake of thinking that Esau genuinely repented and was rejected by God. God does not reject genuine repentance. The text says plainly that he found no place for repentance. In other words, he couldn't repent. He was so hardened (see Hebrews 3:8,15; 4:7) that he cried out for things to go better in his life, but inside he would not submit to God's terms. He was, as verse 16 says, "immoral and godless."

This is an illustration of what the writer has in mind in Hebrews 6:6 when he says it is impossible to renew this person again to repentance. This is the terrifying prospect behind all the warnings of this book not to drift but to take heed and consider Jesus and to exhort each other every day and to fear unbelief and carelessness. Why? Is anything really at stake? The prospect exists that you and I who believe we are chosen and called and justified might slide into a slow process of indifference and hardening and eventually fall away and reject Christ and put him to an open shame. We may actually come to a point where there is no return, because we have been forsaken utterly by God. That's what the word "impossible" means in verse 6. and Oh, how it should put you on an urgent pursuit of mercy!

[Weegle777 78]

I have mercy already. I have been made complete and perfect and holy in Christ.

Hebrews 10:14King James Version (KJV)

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

[Weegle777 78]

We cannot be forsaken by God.

Hebrews 13:5

[Weegle777 78]

Hebrews is a book written to jews who were tasting grace, but were still partaking in the duties and rituals of the law. You have got to know context and why these scriptures were written.

[aubfaninga 16]

Hebrews is a book written to jews who were tasting grace, but were still partaking in the duties and rituals of the law. You have got to know context and why these scriptures were written.

Oh dear...The whole book was written for Israel. Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel. You can't just blot out verses and teachings and throw them at the "jews" as if you are better and know GOD any more than they did.

So basically everything that does not fit into your 2015 American traditions and ways was written to correct those filthy Jews, prophets, disciples, and apostles that were all "Jews" and could not come to the same level of understanding you do 2000 years removed from these "Jewish" writers.

So if Hebrews was written for "Jews" only, why do you use it to justify your fleshly idea that it is ok to cheat on your wife in GODS eyes? Your not a "Jew" so don't quote verses written for "Jews".

Show one verse that says a murderer or adulter can continue to murder or cheat once accepting Jesus as his savior from being a murderer or adulterer.

I know for a FACT that this letter was written to gentiles so try and dismiss these verses concerning sexual impurity.

1 Corinthians 5:1-5

"It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

!!!PAUL SAID REMOVE THIS MESS FROM THE ASSEMBLY!!!

You make Paul out to be a hypocrite. Here is Pauls advice and it was not teaching you can continue to cheat.

1 Corinthians 5:9-13

"I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

They accepted his judgement and words concerning this leaven in the church.

2 Corinthians 7

"Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."....

Paul stepped on the gentiles feelings then judged their assembly and he explains why.

"For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it. For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while. Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter. Therefore, although I wrote to you, I did not do it for the sake of him who had done the wrong, nor for the sake of him who suffered wrong, but that our care for you in the sight of God might appear to you."

Was Paul be legalistic and harsh??? So what about the one that was sinning???

"Now I call upon God as my witness that I am telling the truth. The reason I didn’t return to Corinth was to spare you from a severe rebuke. But that does not mean we want to dominate you by telling you how to put your faith into practice. We want to work together with you so you will be full of joy, for it is by your own faith that you stand firm. So I decided that I would not bring you grief with another painful visit. For if I cause you grief, who will make me glad? Certainly not someone I have grieved. at is why I wrote to you as I did, so that when I do come, I won’t be grieved by the very ones who ought to give me the greatest joy. Surely you all know that my joy comes from your being joyful. I wrote that letter in great anguish, with a troubled heart and many tears. I didn’t want to grieve you, but I wanted to let you know how much love I have for you.

{Forgiveness for the Sinner}

I am not overstating it when I say that the man who caused all the trouble hurt all of you more than he hurt me. Most of you opposed him, and that was punishment enough. Now, however, it is time to forgive and comfort him. Otherwise he may be overcome by discouragement. So I urge you now to reaffirm your love for him. I wrote to you as I did to test you and see if you would fully comply with my instructions. When you forgive this man, I forgive him, too. And when I forgive whatever needs to be forgiven, I do so with Christ’s authority for your benefit, so that Satan will not outsmart us. For we are familiar with his evil schemes."

Here are some more verses that I hope you don't feel were written just for Jews

Hebrews 10:26

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

1 John 5

"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."

John 8:44

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

1 John 3:7

"Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning."

Matthew 7:21-23

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Matthew 7:16-20

"You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits."

1 Corinthians 6:9

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

James 4:17

So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

2 Thessalonians 3:6

Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.

1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Ephesians 5:1

Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children.

James 2:26

For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Hebrews 6:10

For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 6:1-12

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. ...

Revelation 3:1-22

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. “‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God. Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you. Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. ...

1 John 4:1

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

James 4:4

You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

James 3:1-2

Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.

2 Corinthians 5:10

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

Romans 1:26-27

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

[Weegle777 78]

You have got to condense what you posted above.

[Weegle777 78]

And I need to clarify one thing. In no way did I ever say that it was ok in God's eyes to cheat on my wife. What I did say is what Paul said, ALL things are permissible for me, but NOT ALL things are profitable. If we are true and ever thankful followers of Christ, we will want to live our lives in a way that will reflect what He did for us. It doesn't give us a "license to sin" as some erroneously state. Just the opposite.

[Weegle777 78]

And in your long post above, you asked me why I referenced Hebrews when it was written to the Hebrews. Because what they were doing then is exactly what many Christians are doing today, mixing law and grace. There is no balance between the two, you either believe that Jesus fulfilled the law, thereby freeing from the condemnation of it, and that His sacrifice was totally sufficient, or you don't. We would do well to learn from Hebrews so that we don't make the same mistakes that they did.

[cole256 17,039]

What about when God told Adam not to eat fruit from the tree of life? Wouldn't that theoretically be the first law since his word is law and he held Adam accountable for it?

[aubfaninga 16]

What about when God told Adam not to eat fruit from the tree of life? Wouldn't that theoretically be the first law since his word is law and he held Adam accountable for it?

Greatest lie ever told!!!

Genesis 3

"And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’” Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die."

Yes Adam disobeyed GOD very first LAW.

GOD warned Cain not to sin. GOD flooded the world because of lawlessness. Noah took 7 pairs of clean animals and 2 of unclean. All of this and Abraham had not even been born yet.

What they don't teach in Sunday school. After a one year flood all vegetation for harvest is lost for that year. What did Noah eat? WAY BEFORE Moses ever walked this earth GOD was giving Mankind instruction.

Genesis 7

"Then the Lord said to Noah, “Come into the ark, you and all your household, because I have seen that you are righteous before Me in this generation. ² You shall take with you seven each of every clean animal, a male and his female; two each of animals that are unclean, a male and his female; ³ also seven each of birds of the air, male and female, to keep the species alive on the face of all the earth. ⁴ For after seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made.” ⁵ And Noah did according to all that the Lord commanded him. ⁶ Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters were on the earth.

⁷ So Noah, with his sons, his wife, and his sons’ wives, went into the ark because of the waters of the flood. ⁸ Of clean animals, of animals that are unclean, of birds, and of everything that creeps on the earth, ⁹ two by two they went into the ark to Noah, male and female, as God had commanded Noah."

[Weegle777 78]

What about when God told Adam not to eat fruit from the tree of life? Wouldn't that theoretically be the first law since his word is law and he held Adam accountable for it?

God told them that they could eat of any tree in the garden. But, if they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not the tree of life, that they would die.

[aubfaninga 16]

What about when God told Adam not to eat fruit from the tree of life? Wouldn't that theoretically be the first law since his word is law and he held Adam accountable for it?

God told them that they could eat of any tree in the garden. But, if they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not the tree of life, that they would die.

Tree of Life in proverbs 3 verse 18

Proverbs 3

1

My son, do not forget my law,

But let your heart keep my commands;

2

For length of days and long life

And peace they will add to you.

3

Let not mercy and truth forsake you;

Bind them around your neck,

Write them on the tablet of your heart,

4

And so find favor and high esteem

In the sight of God and man.

5

Trust in the Lord with all your heart,

And lean not on your own understanding;

6

In all your ways acknowledge Him,

And He shall direct[a] your paths.

7

Do not be wise in your own eyes;

Fear the Lord and depart from evil.

8

It will be health to your flesh,

And strength[c] to your bones.

9

Honor the Lord with your possessions,

And with the firstfruits of all your increase;

10

So your barns will be filled with plenty,

And your vats will overflow with new wine.

11

My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,

Nor detest His correction;

12

For whom the Lord loves He corrects,

Just as a father the son in whom he delights.

13

Happy is the man who finds wisdom,

And the man who gains understanding;

14

For her proceeds are better than the profits of silver,

And her gain than fine gold.

15

She is more precious than rubies,

And all the things you may desire cannot compare with her.

16

Length of days is in her right hand,

In her left hand riches and honor.

17

Her ways are ways of pleasantness,

And all her paths are peace.

18

She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her,

And happy are all who retain her.

19

The Lord by wisdom founded the earth;

By understanding He established the heavens;

20

By His knowledge the depths were broken up,

And clouds drop down the dew.

21

My son, let them not depart from your eyes—

Keep sound wisdom and discretion;

22

So they will be life to your soul

And grace to your neck.

23

Then you will walk safely in your way,

And your foot will not stumble.

24

When you lie down, you will not be afraid;

Yes, you will lie down and your sleep will be sweet.

25

Do not be afraid of sudden terror,

Nor of trouble from the wicked when it comes;

26

For the Lord will be your confidence,

And will keep your foot from being caught.

27

Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due,

When it is in the power of your hand to do so.

28

Do not say to your neighbor,

“Go, and come back,

And tomorrow I will give it,”

When you have it with you.

29

Do not devise evil against your neighbor,

For he dwells by you for safety’s sake.

30

Do not strive with a man without cause,

If he has done you no harm.

31

Do not envy the oppressor,

And choose none of his ways;

32

For the perverse person is an abomination to the Lord,

But His secret counsel is with the upright.

33

The curse of the Lord is on the house of the wicked,

But He blesses the home of the just.

34

Surely He scorns the scornful,

But gives grace to the humble.

35

The wise shall inherit glory,

But shame shall be the legacy of fools.

[aubfaninga 16]

What about when God told Adam not to eat fruit from the tree of life? Wouldn't that theoretically be the first law since his word is law and he held Adam accountable for it?

God told them that they could eat of any tree in the garden. But, if they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not the tree of life, that they would die.

But you told them that ALL things are lawfull???

[Weegle777 78]

And that is a great example of what the law does.

Romans 5:20

The law was added (given) so that the trespass might INCREASE. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

[Weegle777 78]

What about when God told Adam not to eat fruit from the tree of life? Wouldn't that theoretically be the first law since his word is law and he held Adam accountable for it?

God told them that they could eat of any tree in the garden. But, if they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not the tree of life, that they would die.

But you told them that ALL things are lawfull???

What's your point?

[aubfaninga 16]

And that is a great example of what the law does.

Romans 5:20

The law was added (given) so that the trespass might INCREASE. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

AND THAT IS THE POWER AND TESTIMONY OF YESHUA!!! HE DID NOT SIN AND HIS FATHER RAISED HIM FROM DEATH.

It's the very witness that GOD is true. Adam disobeyed and died as a witness and Jesus obeyed and lived!!!

1 Corinthians 11:1

"Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ."

John 15:14

"You are my friends if you do what I command."

John 14:15

""If you love me, keep my commands."

John 14:7

"If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

Matthew 22:36

“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’This is the first and great commandment."

1 John 5

"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.…"

[aubfaninga 16]

"Epimenides the Cretan says, 'that all the Cretans are liars,' but Epimenides is himself a Cretan; therefore he is himself a liar. But if he be a liar, what he says is untrue, and consequently the Cretans are veracious; but Epimenides is a Cretan, and therefore what he says is true; saying the Cretans are liars, Epimenides is himself a liar, and what he says is untrue. Thus we may go on alternately proving that Epimenides and the Cretans are truthful and untruthful."

"Don't obey GOD because GOD said so" "All things are LAWFULL but DON'T mix Law and Grace" "All things are LAWFULL because their is no LAW"

What hypocrisy this doctrine is!!!

Titus 1

For there are many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain. One of them, a prophet of their own, said,

"Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons."

This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth. To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. They profess to know God, but >>>>>>>>>>in works they deny Him, being abominable, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>disobedient, and disqualified for every >>>>>>>>>>>good work.

[cole256 17,039]

What about when God told Adam not to eat fruit from the tree of life? Wouldn't that theoretically be the first law since his word is law and he held Adam accountable for it?

God told them that they could eat of any tree in the garden. But, if they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not the tree of life, that they would die.

I'm sorry about the tree mix up but God said not to eat it or touch it so wouldn't that be the first law?

[Weegle777 78]

Ok. Let's go back to the basics, since we are getting out of control.

Let me ask you a few questions.

And please don't post 400 verses in your answers.

1. Why was the law given to the Jewish people?

[Weegle777 78]

What about when God told Adam not to eat fruit from the tree of life? Wouldn't that theoretically be the first law since his word is law and he held Adam accountable for it?

God told them that they could eat of any tree in the garden. But, if they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not the tree of life, that they would die.

I'm sorry about the tree mix up but God said not to eat it or touch it so wouldn't that be the first law?

God never said "do not touch it", Eve added that one in. This story in Genesis mirrors the Law and Grace discussion.

The Tree of Life represents The New Covenant. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil represents the law or the Old Covenant.

As long as Adam stayed away from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, he was free and never fell under self condemnation. Once he ate of it, what happened? He realized how exposed and naked he was so he hid. He realized that he would never measure up to the God he followed.

So in answering your question, the entire tree was the law because it housed the knowledge of not only what was considered evil, but also what was considered "good".