Is it Gus or the athletes he is recruiting?

[amsterjam 107]

Seems to me every highly talented athlete we sign that looks good on both sides of the ball ends up on O when we clearly need more help on D. Is this because Gus puts them there or because they won't sign unless they are put there?

[Mikey 14,566]

Seems to me every highly talented athlete we sign that looks good on both sides of the ball ends up on O when we clearly need more help on D. Is this because Gus puts them there or because they won't sign unless they are put there?

I think they are put where they can most help the team. We've had better luck signing offensive players than defensive but I see no indication that the better athletes are arbitrarily being placed on offense. Which players are you thinking about? Therezie and Ford are a couple of two-way HS players that are now on defense.

[AU64 10,122]

Seems to me every highly talented athlete we sign that looks good on both sides of the ball ends up on O when we clearly need more help on D. Is this because Gus puts them there or because they won't sign unless they are put there?

I think they are put where they can most help the team. We've had better luck signing offensive players than defensive but I see no indication that the better athletes are arbitrarily being placed on offense. Which players are you thinking about? Therezie and Ford are a couple of two-way HS players that are now on defense.

There is also Reed but generally they have "Wasted" a couple years riding the bench on offense when an immediate placement on the D might have allowed them to develop better/quicker. Seems like there are some others too but I expect kids who sign with Gus have done so expecting to play in his offense and apparently were promised the chance to make the team as a WR or RB or whatever. Movement to Defense is viewed as a demotion it seems. JMO.

[aujeff11 6,243]

I need examples. All I can think of is Cameron Toney

[douggwilliams 61]

We will see with K Johnson. He would be an asset on both sides.

[au701948 739]

I do believe that we could have had "adequate" defensive play this year if we had not lost a few significant very key defensive lineman before/during the season. We just did not have any real quality replacements when our starters went down..depth is/was a defining issue in my opinion. And I am hopeful that with Muschamp we will get our share of needed defensive players.

[Mikey 14,566]

I need examples. All I can think of is Cameron Toney

Toney was moved to H-back on offense because after 1&1/2 seasons on defense he was obviously not going to help at linebacker. He was a 4* LB recruit so defense was clearly the place to start him off.

[bg5 526]

With Reed it wasn't because Gus was there the whole time. HE moved to Def. once Gus came back. Part of Reed's problems were injuries early on and they though once those were better he would be better at WR too. It just didn't work out. KJ is one of the top RB's in the country he could play DB and be good but he will get every chance at RB before that happens.

[1TexasTiger 55]

I need examples. All I can think of is Cameron Toney

Toney was moved to H-back on offense because after 1&1/2 seasons on defense he was obviously not going to help at linebacker. He was a 4* LB recruit so defense was clearly the place to start him off.

Was he going to crack the line up at Lb? Probably not Frost Mckinzy Swain and Garrett took care of that and we needed the help at H back due to the injury of Gage Batten and Prosch graduating along with Fulse and Uzomah lacking the hole clearing capability. For Toney to get a look at the full back/ hback role says a lot about his grit. Those are qualities a mlb would need to have. I would bet money he would be back at lb with Cox, Kamryn Pettway and Gage Batten coming.

[im4au 40]

The number of lb technique errors Quentin Riggins and Stan White pointed out during the Outback Bowl was surprising, especially by upper classmen playing late in the season. I'm not a coach, but the errors sounded pretty basic. Stan really lit up on the long Wisconsin TD run.

I'm not qualified to judge whether we have athlete problems, but I'm confident we had position coaching problems. I don't think either 8 or 17 will be going pro based on their performance today, unless the scouts see tremendous athletes that are worth a project.

[juscAUse 1]

The number of lb technique errors Quentin Riggins and Stan White pointed out during the Outback Bowl was surprising, especially by upper classmen playing late in the season. I'm not a coach, but the errors sounded pretty basic. Stan really lit up on the long Wisconsin TD run.

I'm not qualified to judge whether we have athlete problems, but I'm confident we had position coaching problems. I don't think either 8 or 17 will be going pro based on their performance today, unless the scouts see tremendous athletes that are worth a project.

I tried to make the same point on another thread. Q was adamant that the d line was actually doing what it was supposed to in the second half, and the linebackers were whiffing, not taking on blocks properly, and totally over running plays. He sounded like a former lb who would have loved the opportunity to make plays.

[Mikey 14,566]

The number of lb technique errors Quentin Riggins and Stan White pointed out during the Outback Bowl was surprising, especially by upper classmen playing late in the season. I'm not a coach, but the errors sounded pretty basic. Stan really lit up on the long Wisconsin TD run.

I'm not qualified to judge whether we have athlete problems, but I'm confident we had position coaching problems. I don't think either 8 or 17 will be going pro based on their performance today, unless the scouts see tremendous athletes that are worth a project.

I tried to make the same point on another thread. Q was adamant that the d line was actually doing what it was supposed to in the second half, and the linebackers were whiffing, not taking on blocks properly, and totally over running plays. He sounded like a former lb who would have loved the opportunity to make plays.

I've been saying these same things since last season. People have gone from scoffing at me and talking about our "All-SEC quality linebackers" to total silence. Maybe by next season one or two of them will step up and say I was correct, but I don't look for that to happen.

[tigerman1186 528]

I was at the game today, and it doesn't make me an expert, but towards the end of the game maybe it would have been nice to put Nick in at DB…when it came crunch time for Wisconsin..3rd and long, the last 3 times they threw it to the TE when he was in the slot, and every time they completed it when we had a LB covering him...

[bikeriderga 123]

Why did we have a bad year?

Answer: Defense, period!

[FHeal 3]

Why did we have a bad year?

Answer: Defense, period!

Like the defense which couldn't secure a sizable lead in 2013 certainly didn't help out with player development for this year. This years defense has not helped get 2nd and 3rd stringers their needed game time for next year. Playing time can't be simply made up in the spring and summer.

[autan 593]

We had more athletes than Wisky but they had more football players. The only players they had that we would have even recruited were the two running backs yet the better team won today no question about it.

[PoetTiger 1,754]

Frost and Mkinzy were both 4 star players....IMO they got two years of worthless coaching from EJ, would love to see what WM can do with them...

[McLoofus 35,182]

The number of lb technique errors Quentin Riggins and Stan White pointed out during the Outback Bowl was surprising, especially by upper classmen playing late in the season. I'm not a coach, but the errors sounded pretty basic. Stan really lit up on the long Wisconsin TD run.

I'm not qualified to judge whether we have athlete problems, but I'm confident we had position coaching problems. I don't think either 8 or 17 will be going pro based on their performance today, unless the scouts see tremendous athletes that are worth a project.

I tried to make the same point on another thread. Q was adamant that the d line was actually doing what it was supposed to in the second half, and the linebackers were whiffing, not taking on blocks properly, and totally over running plays. He sounded like a former lb who would have loved the opportunity to make plays.

I've been saying these same things since last season. People have gone from scoffing at me and talking about our "All-SEC quality linebackers" to total silence. Maybe by next season one or two of them will step up and say I was correct, but I don't look for that to happen.

The jury is out until after a player's last season. Jason Campbell and Nick Fairley didn't exactly have "first round draft pick" written on them going into their last seasons at Auburn. Writing their epitaphs before they're done is useless, disrespectful and potentially embarrassing.

So, yeah, if Frost and McKinzey don't have good senior seasons, then you will have been correct. But you still aren't.

[mcgufcm 3,716]

Worthless coaching? Wow. You think McKinzy and Frost are the same as when Gus and Ellis walking in the door?!? That's absurd. If you want to say they regressed at the end of the year, I don't disagree. Both guys are night and day better than they were in 2012. Some of y'all are masters of exaggerating.

They have work to do. The last half of the season was embarrassing for everyone involved. A change was needed and made. There is talent though, and guys have gotten better individually. It just didn't fit or fell to pieces this season. Nothing more.

[AURex 1,441]

Need to remember that the athletes themselves have a say in whether they switch sides of the ball. Coaches can tell a player that he's deep on the chart and not likely to play much at his current position, and *offer* to let him move to another role where he *might* have a better shot and make more of a contribution to the team. But the player is part of that decision process.

As for defensive guys switching to offense, I think there are more players who have switched from offense to defense. I'm not sure this says good things about recruiting of defensive players.

[Mikey 14,566]

The number of lb technique errors Quentin Riggins and Stan White pointed out during the Outback Bowl was surprising, especially by upper classmen playing late in the season. I'm not a coach, but the errors sounded pretty basic. Stan really lit up on the long Wisconsin TD run.

I'm not qualified to judge whether we have athlete problems, but I'm confident we had position coaching problems. I don't think either 8 or 17 will be going pro based on their performance today, unless the scouts see tremendous athletes that are worth a project.

I tried to make the same point on another thread. Q was adamant that the d line was actually doing what it was supposed to in the second half, and the linebackers were whiffing, not taking on blocks properly, and totally over running plays. He sounded like a former lb who would have loved the opportunity to make plays.

I've been saying these same things since last season. People have gone from scoffing at me and talking about our "All-SEC quality linebackers" to total silence. Maybe by next season one or two of them will step up and say I was correct, but I don't look for that to happen.

The jury is out until after a player's last season. Jason Campbell and Nick Fairley didn't exactly have "first round draft pick" written on them going into their last seasons at Auburn. Writing their epitaphs before they're done is useless, disrespectful and potentially embarrassing.

So, yeah, if Frost and McKinzey don't have good senior seasons, then you will have been correct. But you still aren't.

The jury is not out on their past two seasons. The comments by Riggins and White were made YESTERDAY. I've been pointing out poor linebacker play, NOT predicting poor play at some future time. Their shortcomings have played a major part in defensive troubles over the past two years. If they are improved next season, good but that won't erase the past. So yes, I'm correct.

Do I expect huge improvement from fourth and fifth year players as seniors? No, but it could happen, as evidenced by Campbell and Fairley. For that matter, Jabrian Niles could become an all-SEC DT next year.

[McLoofus 35,182]

The number of lb technique errors Quentin Riggins and Stan White pointed out during the Outback Bowl was surprising, especially by upper classmen playing late in the season. I'm not a coach, but the errors sounded pretty basic. Stan really lit up on the long Wisconsin TD run.

I'm not qualified to judge whether we have athlete problems, but I'm confident we had position coaching problems. I don't think either 8 or 17 will be going pro based on their performance today, unless the scouts see tremendous athletes that are worth a project.

I tried to make the same point on another thread. Q was adamant that the d line was actually doing what it was supposed to in the second half, and the linebackers were whiffing, not taking on blocks properly, and totally over running plays. He sounded like a former lb who would have loved the opportunity to make plays.

I've been saying these same things since last season. People have gone from scoffing at me and talking about our "All-SEC quality linebackers" to total silence. Maybe by next season one or two of them will step up and say I was correct, but I don't look for that to happen.

The jury is out until after a player's last season. Jason Campbell and Nick Fairley didn't exactly have "first round draft pick" written on them going into their last seasons at Auburn. Writing their epitaphs before they're done is useless, disrespectful and potentially embarrassing.

So, yeah, if Frost and McKinzey don't have good senior seasons, then you will have been correct. But you still aren't.

The jury is not out on their past two seasons. The comments by Riggins and White were made YESTERDAY. I've been pointing out poor linebacker play, NOT predicting poor play at some future time. Their shortcomings have played a major part in defensive troubles over the past two years. If they are improved next season, good but that won't erase the past. So yes, I'm correct.

Do I expect huge improvement from fourth and fifth year players as seniors? No, but it could happen, as evidenced by Campbell and Fairley. For that matter, Jabrian Niles could become an all-SEC DT next year.

Mikey, that's simply not true. You've said repeatedly that Frost and Cass are not capable of being quality linebackers. I'm not going to bother digging up prior posts because we've all read them ad nauseum and I'm sure you'll say it again yourself soon enough.

Of course there has been poor play, from the linebackers and at every other position on defense. There was also, at times, very improved play from the linebackers. Why you choose not to acknowledge that, I'm not sure.

[mcgufcm 3,716]

I'll side with McLoofus on my recollection. Memory routinely fails, but I feel like I've had the argument with Mikey and others that Frost and Cass have All-SEC potential (with Mikey on the opposite side of that statement). That feels like a predictive statement. Maybe I'm wrong, but if you'd asked me in a vacuum, I would've told you that Mikey doesn't think those two will pan out. I think the precise formulation is that we haven't recruited All-SEC caliber LBs, which implies the guys that have signed are not and will not become All-SEC LBs.

And I'd also say that a big senior season papers over the past. Unquestionably. Jason Campbell went down as one of the five greatest Auburn QBs in history based on a solid Sophomore season and a massive Senior year. A great finish erases the past.

[Mikey 14,566]

Oh, I certainly don't THINK they'll pan out, but saying they'll do like Campbell and Fairley (two in ten years) is quite the stretch. They are better this year than last, but they were the absolute pits last year and maybe just the plain ol' pits this year. Neither one of them even made anybody's all-SEC honorable mention list and some of those lists went on and on.

One commentator in this thread (not naming names) said our LB's didn't get mentioned last year because nobody knew their names but in 2014 they'd get plenty of honors because they'd be returning starters. How'd that turn out?

We have under recruited the position in terms of quality and quantity for several years now. That's not predicting, it's observation.

It appears that the coaches agree with me. If we can hold what we've got this year, we'll be signing five linebackers. (Adkinson, Colbert, Sullivan, McBryde and Williams). The last time I looked, Rivals listed all of those as LB's. Some here have said that this one or that one is "being recruited as a safety". Anybody can say what they want to say to save face, I suppose. I'm calling them linebackers because that's what Rivals is calling them. That's five committed and if we do land Holland it will be six. Things may be pickin' up!

[autigeremt 5,665]

Things are picking up because CWM is in the house. LB play will get better.