Senate Climate Change Vote

[AURaptor 1,122]

yes, it was a MYTH back then, because NOW we know there's WARMING !!

Man's impact on climate is minimal, at most. Stop trying to swat at clouds and instead, do something about pollution. I know it's not nearly as sexy and " heroic ", but it'll do far more people a hell of a lot more good.

[AUDub 11,144]

yes, it was a MYTH back then, because NOW we know there's WARMING !!

Man's impact on climate is minimal, at most. Stop trying to swat at clouds and instead, do something about pollution. I know it's not nearly as sexy and " heroic ", but it'll do far more people a hell of a lot more good.

Some scientists did predict cooling, but these ideas did not gain acceptance in the scientific community at large. Therefore, there was never a consensus on the issue of "global cooling." The list you posted is of various articles from then media, not peer reviewed scientific literature.

I don't know why this is so hard to grasp. Probably because you don't want to. You're perfectly happy just to stomp your foot and say "I'm right!"

And I am doing trying to do something about pollution. The difference between me and you is that I grasp the concept of cause and effect.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Science is NOT about consensus.

That's the point you keep ignoring.

[AUDub 11,144]

Science is NOT about consensus.

That's the point you keep ignoring.

You are all over the place. You're the one that keeps trying to confront me on the matter, starting with Weegs excerpting Michael Crichton's website earlier. I already said consensus does not dictate truth. I've limited my responses to your lame attempts to discredit it.

[TheBlueVue 177]

Amazingly clear that the entire AGW argument is driven by an agenda to redistribute wealth from the more affluent nations to the 3rd world nations, who are evidently considered by the left, utterly incapable of helping themselves. Its painfully apparent the left's agenda is seemingly always predicated on their presumed "intellectual superiority" which, "obviously", provides them with insight that is beyond the comprehension capabilities of those they set themselves up to "lord over"

Most liberals are atheists, at least the most vocal are and, evidently they feel they need an apocalyptic story line. Climate change is the perfect candidate to use as their secular apocalypse. "Its the end of time as we know it" so allow us to take your money and use it how we decide is "best" for all parties involved. You see, that same intellectual superiority also puts them in a position of "knowing" how to "better" use those funds the carbon taxes will accrue than the citizens from which from they are confiscated. The problem is, there has NEVER been a govt program that actually worked to solve a problem as it were. This govt($18.5 TRIL dollas in the hole) tends to simply raise taxes but spend 3 times the revenue accrued. When the revenue provides no remedy, and it never does, not surprisingly, they act as if the increases were insufficient to "fix" the problem and immediately proceed to propose more tax increases setting up a never ending cycle of ineffective tax and spend policies to fund govt programs that predictably almost always fail to address what was at the bottom of the requested tax. Please excuse my cynicism but, climate change is very convenient for them....VERY convenient.

[AURaptor 1,122]

[AUDub 11,144]

Amazingly clear that the entire AGW argument is driven by an agenda to redistribute wealth from the more affluent nations to the 3rd world nations, who are evidently considered by the left, utterly incapable of helping themselves. Its painfully apparent the left's agenda is seemingly always predicated on their presumed "intellectual superiority" which, "obviously", provides them with insight that is beyond the comprehension capabilities of those they set themselves up to "lord over"

Most liberals are atheists, at least the most vocal are and, evidently they feel they need an apocalyptic story line. Climate change is the perfect candidate to use as their secular apocalypse. "Its the end of time as we know it" so allow us to take your money and use it how we decide is "best" for all parties involved. You see, that same intellectual superiority also puts them in a position of "knowing" how to "better" use those funds the carbon taxes will accrue than the citizens from which from they are confiscated. The problem is, there has NEVER been a govt program that actually worked to solve a problem as it were. This govt($18.5 TRIL dollas in the hole) tends to simply raise taxes but spend 3 times the revenue accrued. When the revenue provides no remedy, and it never does, not surprisingly, they act as if the increases were insufficient to "fix" the problem and immediately proceed to propose more tax increases setting up a never ending cycle of ineffective tax and spend policies to fund govt programs that predictably almost always fail to address what was at the bottom of the requested tax. Please excuse my cynicism but, climate change is very convenient for them....VERY convenient.

Thwacka Thwacka Thwacka

Is that you, Mulder?

[AURaptor 1,122]

Most liberals are atheists, at least the most vocal are and, evidently they feel they need an apocalyptic story line. Climate change is the perfect candidate to use as their secular apocalypse. "Its the end of time as we know it" so allow us to take your money and use it how we decide is "best" for all parties involved. You see, that same intellectual superiority also puts them in a position of "knowing" how to "better" use those funds the carbon taxes will accrue than the citizens from which from they are confiscated.

And that puts me at odds w/ most of them, I suppose.

Some non believers are actual pragmatic, sensible and straight forward thinking types, who don't fall in line w/ the rest of that crowd.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Thwacka Thwacka Thwacka

Is that you, Mulder?

[AUDub 11,144]

Thwacka Thwacka Thwacka

Is that you, Mulder?

Nutpicking. Otherwise known as Drum's Law.

[AURaptor 1,122]

nutpicking ? You're using a term coined by someone from MOTHER FREAKING JONES !

That right there should disqualify you and your comments from the remainder of this topic.

[AUDub 11,144]

nutpicking ? You're using a term coined by someone from MOTHER FREAKING JONES !

That right there should disqualify you and your comments from the remainder of this topic.

Genetic fallacy. What you're doing is just like considering the Tea Party movement racist because there was an unhinged racist at one of their rallies.

You're funny.

I'd like to know where you and Blue got that goofy religious breakdown of liberals. I'm a Christian myself. In my experience, most atheists are indeed liberal, but not all liberals are atheists.

[AURaptor 1,122]

False analogy. No one from a TEA Party rallies coined a term which was racist. This guy MADE UP that term , and you act as if it was just some random bystander who happened to be in the offices of MJ.

Funny indeed.

And what did I say about Libs and religion ? You have me confused with another.

I'm not religious.

[AUDub 11,144]

False analogy. No one from a TEA Party rallies coined a term which was racist. This guy MADE UP that term , and you act as if it was just some random bystander who happened to be in the offices of MJ.

Funny indeed.

Not a false analogy. The genetic fallacy was for dismissing the term because of its source. The analogy was because, as you selected one random nutcase, in this case Chavez, to discredit the "AGW crowd," I can just as easily dismiss the TEA Party movement as racists if I find a random racist loon at one of their rallies. It doesn't hold water.

And what did I say about Libs and religion ? You have me confused with another.

I'm not religious.

Blue asserted that most liberals are atheist in post 130. You bolded the claim in post 133.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Leader of a country speaking at the U.N. conference, some how equates to some random yahoo wandering around, and having no official business in connection to ANY TEA Party event or group.

genetic fallacy.

And yes, I was speaking of MYSELF, not iibs. Read what was posted next time.

[AUDub 11,144]

Leader of a country speaking at the U.N. conference, some how equates to some random yahoo wandering around, and having no official business in connection to ANY TEA Party event or group.

genetic fallacy.

Not a genetic fallacy, which you did commit concerning "Nutpicking". Go study up on your fallacies.

If anything, it would be "no true Scotsman," but it's not even that.

But yes, it does equate. Just because he is the leader of a country speaking at the UN does not lend credence to his stupidity. Even Qaddafi was allowed to speak at the UN, and we can all agree he was a loon. There are various idiots in every movement, but their idiocy does does not discredit the entire movement.

And yes, I was speaking of MYSELF, not iibs. Read what was posted next time.

You're correct. I misread it. I apologize.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Hey Ben - why not stop trying to plug what these things are or aren't properly, what damn " fallacies " to call them, and just deal w/ the actual facts.

AGW isn't , by any stretch of the imagination, a valid concern for us to be wasting time or resources.

[AUDub 11,144]

Hey Ben - why not stop trying to plug what these things are or aren't properly, what damn " fallacies " to call them, and just deal w/ the actual facts.

AGW isn't , by any stretch of the imagination, a valid concern for us to be wasting time or resources.

If you put forth an argument that isn't logically sound, it will be pointed out.

Now, if you'll excuse me, it's a nice day and I have to go finish cleaning out my back yard. The folks we bought the house from left an absolute mess. Three or four years worth of leaves, a rotten old treehouse on which they used four or five times as many nails as needed (I'll be finding nails for years) and a big tree that has fallen and destroyed my fence.

[homersapien 11,357]

Ben - there was a move by a CONSENSUS of scientists that the planet was headed for a ice age if we kept on polluting.

Do you EVER research the claims you make?

[AUDub 11,144]

Do you EVER research the claims you make?

You know how these debates go. PRATT (points refuted a thousand times) galore.

And the burden of proof is always ours.

[homersapien 11,357]

Sticks and stones......

old fart

Hey! I resemble that remark.

[homersapien 11,357]

Hey Ben - why not stop trying to plug what these things are or aren't properly, what damn " fallacies " to call them, and just deal w/ the actual facts.

AGW isn't , by any stretch of the imagination, a valid concern for us to be wasting time or resources.

Your "actual facts" are frequently misused (in the context of the argument you are trying to make. Other times they are simply wrong.

Regardless, you arguments are often illogical. But they are so common they have been characterized. Ben is simply pointing that out, thus providing you an opportunity to learn something.

Of course, you can content yourself with remaining "classically" illogical. At least you'll be classy at something. :rolleyes:/>

[homersapien 11,357]

Do you EVER research the claims you make?

You know how these debates go. PRATT (points refuted a thousand times) galore.

And the burden of proof is always ours. :rolleyes:/>

Well, it's a thankless job but someone has to do it. It's sorta like taking the garbage out. Don't want it to pile up.

[WarTim 3,456]

I really didn't think the intellectual quotient on the forum could be lowered much. I was wrong.

Enough with it already. You are not in a position to determine intellect. You can make rhetorical comments without that.

BS. Many of the posts made on this forum are embarrasingly dumb. If you don't have any standards that's your problem. I think we can do better.

I

By "I think we can do better", you really mean, "get on board with the 97%, or we will just call you stupid."

You don't want discussion, you want conformity, and you won't get that.

No, actually I am looking for rational arguments. If we don't agree, maybe I'll learn something, or at least hear a reasoned counterpoint.

To illustrate, imagine the opposite of most of tim's and raptor's posts.

Heh. They're not gonna like that.

Good. Maybe they'll leave. They cheapen and degrade the forum.

Coming from a Jonestowner, I am encouraged to post more often. Thanks!!!

[AFTiger 282]

The sun rises in the east.........Let's vote on it

Then let's vote on whether or not man caused it to rise.