Bergdahl To Be Charged With Desertion?

[AUUSN 823]

So let me see. Bergdahl is automatically guilty based on News reports and witness accounts? That certainly wasn't the argument during the Mike Brown shooting case. It was all, wait until all the facts come out. What has changed?

Obviously, it's all about what political ax you have to grind.

no political ax here. the facts came out fairly quick in both cases. the video of the "gentle giant" that squashed all the poor innocent tales, along with the inconsistent witnesses. then berghahl, not one person with inside knowledge has said anything that would indicate bergdahl didnt desert. not one. if so please link it.

I understand your point. It's my opinion that he did desert. However some here have said he aided the enemy. That's a completely different charge and a completely different matter. I'm willing to wait until the investigation and possible court martial is complete. Others want to go ahead and put him in front of a firing squad.

[WarTim 3,456]

Good point EMT. The fact that he WAS traded makes ALL the difference...........

Really? Bergdahl had no control over that. I guess this is just about about politics,,,,,,,,,,,,,,for you.

The politics are not allowing the investigation that has been completed to be released...

[icanthearyou 4,462]

Good point EMT. The fact that he WAS traded makes ALL the difference...........

Really? Bergdahl had no control over that. I guess this is just about about politics,,,,,,,,,,,,,,for you.

The politics are not allowing the investigation that has been completed to be released...

Yeah, like I said, for you this is all about politics. Thanks for helping.

[autigeremt 6,569]

Good point EMT. The fact that he WAS traded makes ALL the difference...........

Well apparently it makes a difference in the willingness to assume he is guilty without a trial or investigation. :-\

Is this how some people felt about Officer Wilson??

But really....let it play out. Like I stated prior, if he hadn't been traded for 4 terrorists this would be a back page story.

[WarTim 3,456]

Good point EMT. The fact that he WAS traded makes ALL the difference...........

Really? Bergdahl had no control over that. I guess this is just about about politics,,,,,,,,,,,,,,for you.

The politics are not allowing the investigation that has been completed to be released...

Yeah, like I said, for you this is all about politics. Thanks for helping.

The politics of delaying release of information ( I typed real slow...try to keep up)...

[cptau 169]

So let's put this to rest. Death is not the only punishment directed by the UCMJ. It is very specific. ART. 106a. ESPIONAGE

(A) (1) Any person subject to this chapter who, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicates, delivers, or transmits, or attempts to communicate, deliver, or transmit, to any entity described in paragraph (2), either directly or indirectly, any thing described in paragraph (3) shall be punished as a court-martial may direct, except that if the accused is found guilty of an offense that directly concerns (A) nuclear weaponry, military spacecraft or satellites, early warning systems, or other means of defense or retaliation against large scale attack, ( war plans, © communications intelligence or cryptographic information, or (D) any other major weapons system or major element of defense strategy, the accused shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court- martial may direct.

(2) An entity referred to in paragraph (1) is--

(A) a foreign government;

( a faction or party or military force within a foreign country, whether recognized or unrecognized by the United States

© a representative, officer, agent, employee, subject, or citizen of such government, faction, party, or force.

W

(3) A thing refereed to in paragraph (1) is a document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, note, instrument, appliance or information relating to the national defense.

( (1) No person may be sentenced by court-martial to suffer death for an offense under this section (article) unless--

(A) the members of the court-martial unanimously find at least one of the aggravating factors set out in subsection; and

( the members unanimously determine that any extenuating or mitigating circumstances are substantially outweighed by any aggravating circumstances, including the aggravating factors set out under subsection ©.

(2) Findings under this subsection may be based on--

(A) evidence introduced on the issue of guilt or innocence;

( evidence introduced during the sentencing proceeding; or

all such evidence.

(3) The accused shall be given broad latitude to present matters in extenuation and mitigation.

© A sentence of death may be adjudged by a court-martial for an offense under this section (article) only if the members unanimously find, beyond a reasonable doubt, one or more of the following aggravating factors:

(1) The accused has been convicted of another offense involving espionage or treason for which either a sentence of death or imprisonment for life was authorized by statute.

(2) In the commission of the offense, the accused knowingly created a grave risk of substantial damage to the national security.

(3) In the commission of the offense, the accused knowingly created a grave risk of death to another person.

(4) Any other factor that may be prescribed by the President by regulations under section 836 of this title (Article 36).

They appear to have done the preliminary investigation of Bergdahl. No Article 32 Investigation has taken place which must happen for a Court-Martial to take place.

Most deserters in CONUS get dishonorable discharges and 12 months confinement. Bergdahl may get more if they prove anyone died as a result of his alleged desertion.

Robert Garwood a Vietnam War POW faced a general court-martial. He was found not guilty of desertion, solicitation of U.S. troops in the field to refuse to fight and to defect, and of maltreatment. Garwood was convicted of communicating with the enemy and the assault of an American prisoner of war The court-martial sentenced Garwood to reduction to private, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and a dishonorable discharge. He was not sentenced to confinement. His conviction was upheld on appeal

There were 21 American Korean War POWs that defected to the communists. Many of them tired of the workers paradise and returned to the US a few years later. The Army gave them dishonorable discharges, which meant upon their return they could not be tried for desertion.

[WarTim 3,456]

Then WHY stonewalling? Release the completed report. That's all...

[AUFAN78 3,889]

Once again Fox News lets the Sheeple down: US Army Denies Desertion Charge For Bergdahl: http://news.sky.com/...ge-for-bergdahl

So Fox brings on a guest whose sources tell him the investigation is complete and the recommendation from the Army is Desertion. He also suggests WH suppression.

But somehow this is Fox facts?

[AUFAN78 3,889]

Once again Fox News lets the Sheeple down: US Army Denies Desertion Charge For Bergdahl: http://news.sky.com/...ge-for-bergdahl

I guess NBC is letting their Sheeple down as well? http://www.nbcnews.c...als-say-n294466

Guessing the simpletons will ignore.

[AUFAN78 3,889]

Once again Fox News lets the Sheeple down: US Army Denies Desertion Charge For Bergdahl: http://news.sky.com/...ge-for-bergdahl

I was just about to say: Reporting on heresay from a retired officer.... Yep, that sounds like Faux News alright. Get it out there, back off later if required.

No mention of NBC? Imagine that? Politic much?

[AUDub 11,131]

Once again Fox News lets the Sheeple down: US Army Denies Desertion Charge For Bergdahl: http://news.sky.com/...ge-for-bergdahl

I was just about to say: Reporting on heresay from a retired officer.... Yep, that sounds like Faux News alright. Get it out there, back off later if required.

No mention of NBC? Imagine that? Politic much?

Did you read the Sky article? It is referring to the NBC report.

[alexava 6,973]

So let me see. Bergdahl is automatically guilty based on News reports and witness accounts? That certainly wasn't the argument during the Mike Brown shooting case. It was all, wait until all the facts come out. What has changed?

Obviously, it's all about what political ax you have to grind.

no political ax here. the facts came out fairly quick in both cases. the video of the "gentle giant" that squashed all the poor innocent tales, along with the inconsistent witnesses. then berghahl, not one person with inside knowledge has said anything that would indicate bergdahl didnt desert. not one. if so please link it.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but that's a very weak example of a critical fact concerning the Ferguson shooting. It's not even directly relevant.

Also, heresay outside of a hearing or investigation is not sufficient to determine guilt, even if it's 100% consistent. And without the investigation, how does one even know it's 100%?

Finally, lacking the self-awareness that one's conclusions are politically motivated doesn't make them less so.

The mere fact one is willing to express a definitive conclusion outside of a trial or investigation demonstrates that.

it is directly relevant. Where as eric holder's claim of being racially profiled decades ago 1000 miles away was not. You are right no need to hijack but you brought in this analogy which was weak. Not sure who is lacking self awareness. The bottom line is this guy walked off and joined the enemy. No person has disputed that. The ONLY chance he has got is mental illness. i don't play politics i didn't oppose Obama's or DoD trade to get him back. I just hope there was secondary agendas that can't be revealed behind the swap. Because on the cover it made zero sense.

[AUFAN78 3,889]

Rear Adm. John Kirby ‏@PentagonPresSec 2h2 hours ago

Contrary to media reporting, no decision made by Army leadership with respect to Sgt. Bergdahl's case. The process will be respected

But, but, Faux News can't be wrong! :-\

Thanks for your display of critical thinking homes. Bravo!

[icanthearyou 4,462]

So let me see. Bergdahl is automatically guilty based on News reports and witness accounts? That certainly wasn't the argument during the Mike Brown shooting case. It was all, wait until all the facts come out. What has changed?

Obviously, it's all about what political ax you have to grind.

no political ax here. the facts came out fairly quick in both cases. the video of the "gentle giant" that squashed all the poor innocent tales, along with the inconsistent witnesses. then berghahl, not one person with inside knowledge has said anything that would indicate bergdahl didnt desert. not one. if so please link it.

I think that is fair. I thought about that also. Although I don't really believe it matters in whether or not he is guilty, he had protested the conduct of members of his outfit (in regards to their treatment of the locals) to his lieutenant. He apparently found a sympathetic ear. That lieutenant was killed a few days before he deserted/went AWOL, whatever. He wasn't exactly making friends.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

So let me see. Bergdahl is automatically guilty based on News reports and witness accounts? That certainly wasn't the argument during the Mike Brown shooting case. It was all, wait until all the facts come out. What has changed?

Obviously, it's all about what political ax you have to grind.

no political ax here. the facts came out fairly quick in both cases. the video of the "gentle giant" that squashed all the poor innocent tales, along with the inconsistent witnesses. then berghahl, not one person with inside knowledge has said anything that would indicate bergdahl didnt desert. not one. if so please link it.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but that's a very weak example of a critical fact concerning the Ferguson shooting. It's not even directly relevant.

Also, heresay outside of a hearing or investigation is not sufficient to determine guilt, even if it's 100% consistent. And without the investigation, how does one even know it's 100%?

Finally, lacking the self-awareness that one's conclusions are politically motivated doesn't make them less so.

The mere fact one is willing to express a definitive conclusion outside of a trial or investigation demonstrates that.

it is directly relevant. Where as eric holder's claim of being racially profiled decades ago 1000 miles away was not. You are right no need to hijack but you brought in this analogy which was weak. Not sure who is lacking self awareness. The bottom line is this guy walked off and joined the enemy. No person has disputed that. The ONLY chance he has got is mental illness. i don't play politics i didn't oppose Obama's or DoD trade to get him back. I just hope there was secondary agendas that can't be revealed behind the swap. Because on the cover it made zero sense.

Walked off, yes. Joined the enemy? I think we need to see some proof on that one.

BTW, I think Homer's point is, that facts come out in a trial, not through the press.

[AUFAN78 3,889]

Does anyone doubt the political motives at work here? That is the question.

Allow due process to work. If he is guilty, fine. Sentence him. However, don't allow that sentence to be determined by the political implications. Unless it can be proven that he hurt our cause or aided our enemies, treat him a human being, who under difficult circumstances, made a poor choice. Do not allow this young man's fate to be determined by partisan politics.

If this were your son, even if you believed he was wrong, you would want him to be treated fairly. You would want him judged by his actions and the consequences of those actions, not because there is a large number of people interested in discrediting the President. Do not make this kid part of the administration. He has enough problems.

So, by many reports the Army investigation concluded and was sent up the chain. And by many reports the WH is pushing back. Is this the political partisanship you reference?

The case of Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, who disappeared from his Afghanistan base in 2009 and was returned to the U.S. earlier this year, is now in the hands of a General Courts Martial Convening Authority.

It is now up to Gen. Mark Milley, commander of U.S. Forces Command, to decide whether no further action is to be taken, or if Bergdahl faces charges in courts martial, the Pentagon said in a statement on Monday.

"The Army cannot discuss or disclose the findings of the investigation while disciplinary decisions are pending before commanders," Maj. James Brindle said.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

Does anyone doubt the political motives at work here? That is the question.

Allow due process to work. If he is guilty, fine. Sentence him. However, don't allow that sentence to be determined by the political implications. Unless it can be proven that he hurt our cause or aided our enemies, treat him a human being, who under difficult circumstances, made a poor choice. Do not allow this young man's fate to be determined by partisan politics.

If this were your son, even if you believed he was wrong, you would want him to be treated fairly. You would want him judged by his actions and the consequences of those actions, not because there is a large number of people interested in discrediting the President. Do not make this kid part of the administration. He has enough problems.

So, by many reports the Army investigation concluded and was sent up the chain. And by many reports the WH is pushing back. Is this the political partisanship you reference?

The case of Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, who disappeared from his Afghanistan base in 2009 and was returned to the U.S. earlier this year, is now in the hands of a General Courts Martial Convening Authority.

It is now up to Gen. Mark Milley, commander of U.S. Forces Command, to decide whether no further action is to be taken, or if Bergdahl faces charges in courts martial, the Pentagon said in a statement on Monday.

"The Army cannot discuss or disclose the findings of the investigation while disciplinary decisions are pending before commanders," Maj. James Brindle said.

No.

[AUFAN78 3,889]

Once again Fox News lets the Sheeple down: US Army Denies Desertion Charge For Bergdahl: http://news.sky.com/...ge-for-bergdahl

I was just about to say: Reporting on heresay from a retired officer.... Yep, that sounds like Faux News alright. Get it out there, back off later if required.

No mention of NBC? Imagine that? Politic much?

Did you read the Sky article? It is referring to the NBC report.

I read the homer report, aka "the political hit piece." It is clear there are political motives here. And clearly non one sided. Just sayin'.

In all seriousness, I don't think I did. I will check it out. Thanks!

[AUFAN78 3,889]

So let me see. Bergdahl is automatically guilty based on News reports and witness accounts? That certainly wasn't the argument during the Mike Brown shooting case. It was all, wait until all the facts come out. What has changed?

Obviously, it's all about what political ax you have to grind.

no political ax here. the facts came out fairly quick in both cases. the video of the "gentle giant" that squashed all the poor innocent tales, along with the inconsistent witnesses. then berghahl, not one person with inside knowledge has said anything that would indicate bergdahl didnt desert. not one. if so please link it.

I think that is fair. I thought about that also. Although I don't really believe it matters in whether or not he is guilty, he had protested the conduct of members of his outfit (in regards to their treatment of the locals) to his lieutenant. He apparently found a sympathetic ear. That lieutenant was killed a few days before he deserted/went AWOL, whatever. He wasn't exactly making friends.

These facts could and should be considered with regards to his mental state. IMHO.

[AUFAN78 3,889]

Does anyone doubt the political motives at work here? That is the question.

Allow due process to work. If he is guilty, fine. Sentence him. However, don't allow that sentence to be determined by the political implications. Unless it can be proven that he hurt our cause or aided our enemies, treat him a human being, who under difficult circumstances, made a poor choice. Do not allow this young man's fate to be determined by partisan politics.

If this were your son, even if you believed he was wrong, you would want him to be treated fairly. You would want him judged by his actions and the consequences of those actions, not because there is a large number of people interested in discrediting the President. Do not make this kid part of the administration. He has enough problems.

So, by many reports the Army investigation concluded and was sent up the chain. And by many reports the WH is pushing back. Is this the political partisanship you reference?

The case of Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, who disappeared from his Afghanistan base in 2009 and was returned to the U.S. earlier this year, is now in the hands of a General Courts Martial Convening Authority.

It is now up to Gen. Mark Milley, commander of U.S. Forces Command, to decide whether no further action is to be taken, or if Bergdahl faces charges in courts martial, the Pentagon said in a statement on Monday.

"The Army cannot discuss or disclose the findings of the investigation while disciplinary decisions are pending before commanders," Maj. James Brindle said.

No.

OK. But do you agree, given the varied reports, that politics could be in play?

[homersapien 11,353]

Good point EMT. The fact that he WAS traded makes ALL the difference...........

Well apparently it makes a difference in the willingness to assume he is guilty without a trial or investigation. :-\

Is this how some people felt about Officer Wilson??

But really....let it play out. Like I stated prior, if he hadn't been traded for 4 terrorists this would be a back page story.

I don't know. Not me. I didn't know for sure what happened and said so at the time.

As far as your comment, it's possibly true but irrelevant to the issue on the table. Are you suggesting that 4 prisoners are too much to pay for any serviceman's release?

[homersapien 11,353]

Once again Fox News lets the Sheeple down: US Army Denies Desertion Charge For Bergdahl: http://news.sky.com/...ge-for-bergdahl

I was just about to say: Reporting on heresay from a retired officer.... Yep, that sounds like Faux News alright. Get it out there, back off later if required.

No mention of NBC? Imagine that? Politic much?

I didn't occur to me at the time. I don't really have an opinion of NBC as I rarely watch or read their news. I do have a strong negative opinion of Fox, but that's no secret. Is taking a partisan slant toward the news as typical for NBC as it is Fox?

Regardless, it appears that neither bothered to confirm the story. I imagine in Fox's case, they had the story they preferred. Maybe the same is true for NBC or maybe they were just careless.

Not sure what "politic much" means.

[homersapien 11,353]

Then WHY stonewalling? Release the completed report. That's all...

Classic "begging-the-question" gambit. :-\

What evidence is there the report is being "stonewalled"? And to what end? Do you think anyone could stonewall such a thing indefinitely?

(And please, don't come back and tell me to prove it's not. That gambit is getting old.)

[icanthearyou 4,462]

Does anyone doubt the political motives at work here? That is the question.

Allow due process to work. If he is guilty, fine. Sentence him. However, don't allow that sentence to be determined by the political implications. Unless it can be proven that he hurt our cause or aided our enemies, treat him a human being, who under difficult circumstances, made a poor choice. Do not allow this young man's fate to be determined by partisan politics.

If this were your son, even if you believed he was wrong, you would want him to be treated fairly. You would want him judged by his actions and the consequences of those actions, not because there is a large number of people interested in discrediting the President. Do not make this kid part of the administration. He has enough problems.

So, by many reports the Army investigation concluded and was sent up the chain. And by many reports the WH is pushing back. Is this the political partisanship you reference?

The case of Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, who disappeared from his Afghanistan base in 2009 and was returned to the U.S. earlier this year, is now in the hands of a General Courts Martial Convening Authority.

It is now up to Gen. Mark Milley, commander of U.S. Forces Command, to decide whether no further action is to be taken, or if Bergdahl faces charges in courts martial, the Pentagon said in a statement on Monday.

"The Army cannot discuss or disclose the findings of the investigation while disciplinary decisions are pending before commanders," Maj. James Brindle said.

No.

OK. But do you agree, given the varied reports, that politics could be in play?

I don't put much stock in "many reports" or, "varied reports". Just show me one credible source.

I think you have to read the entire thread to understand how the conversation got to this point.

[AUFAN78 3,889]

Once again Fox News lets the Sheeple down: US Army Denies Desertion Charge For Bergdahl: http://news.sky.com/...ge-for-bergdahl

I was just about to say: Reporting on heresay from a retired officer.... Yep, that sounds like Faux News alright. Get it out there, back off later if required.

No mention of NBC? Imagine that? Politic much?

I didn't occur to me at the time. I don't really have an opinion of NBC as I rarely watch or read their news. I do have a strong negative opinion of Fox, but that's no secret. Is taking a partisan slant toward the news as typical for NBC as it is Fox?

Regardless, it appears that neither bothered to confirm the story. I imagine in Fox's case, they had the story they preferred. Maybe the same is true for NBC or maybe they were just careless.

Not sure what "politic much" means.

I saw no partisan slant by NBC or Fox nor any of the other non-mentioned reports widely available for public view.

Are you certain they did not confirm their respective stories? It has been widely reported the investigation concluded and was sent up the chain for sentencing decisions with recommendations. Those decisions/recommendations were leaked to news outlets. Later the WH intervened and put the conclusions/recommendations on hold. If, and I mean if, the reports are accurate that is not exactly the same as not confirming.