This is going to annoy EVERYONE. But I agree w/ this gay, married man.

[AURaptor 1,122]

[WarTim 3,456]

Agree? With what exactly?

[aubfaninga 16]

Never mind the claim from scripture that Adam lived in Eden at the beginning. Let's just not think about that and focus on all the bitter. Forget all the wonderful things that we do know.

We have to step back and ask ourselves a few questions.

Is Love really possible without hate?

Is Life really living without death?

Is Joy really appreciated without knowing sorrow?

How could you know the fire is truly hot unless you touch it and get burned if you don't put faith in your parents wisdom concerning the fire?

How could we know without experience first?

If we were born into "Nirvana", "Paradise","Utopia", "Heaven" or a place called "Eden".... would we complain that we were forced to do so? Would we demand our free will to choose for ourselves? Could we honestly say that we had free will?

If we could not think such thoughts would we really exist as we now know it?

Some have decided that all this is just "chance" and there is nothing after this. Creator or not they have been given free will and a mind to choose.

Some have decided they want a GOD that is just like them. They have molded a graven image with themselves as the mold. Whomever this GOD is, has let them do this on their own.

I have a FATHER that has released all of his children out into the world because they chose to exercise their will in opposition to the FATHERS will. He has allowed them to do it. It's free choice.

We can look at this in every possible way we can think of and never get a clear consensus from everyone.

I have just decided that I am glad I serve a GOD that will not FORCE anyone to live in his house. If you don't want to walk in then that is your free will to choose.

(Ecclesiastes is a great read for believers)

[Aufan59 61]

Never mind the claim from scripture that Adam lived in Eden at the beginning. Let's just not think about that and focus on all the bitter. Forget all the wonderful things that we do know. :drippingsarcasm7pa:/>

We have to step back and ask ourselves a few questions.

Is Love really possible without hate?

Is Life really living without death?

Is Joy really appreciated without knowing sorrow?

How could you know the fire is truly hot unless you touch it and get burned if you don't put faith in your parents wisdom concerning the fire?

How could we know without experience first?

If we were born into "Nirvana", "Paradise","Utopia", "Heaven" or a place called "Eden".... would we complain that we were forced to do so? Would we demand our free will to choose for ourselves? Could we honestly say that we had free will?

If we could not think such thoughts would we really exist as we now know it?

Some have decided that all this is just "chance" and there is nothing after this. Creator or not they have been given free will and a mind to choose.

Some have decided they want a GOD that is just like them. They have molded a graven image with themselves as the mold. Whomever this GOD is, has let them do this on their own.

I have a FATHER that has released all of his children out into the world because they chose to exercise their will in opposition to the FATHERS will. He has allowed them to do it. It's free choice.

We can look at this in every possible way we can think of and never get a clear consensus from everyone.

I have just decided that I am glad I serve a GOD that will not FORCE anyone to live in his house. If you don't want to walk in then that is your free will to choose.

(Ecclesiastes is a great read for believers)

I understand the thinking that you can't understand joy unless you've felt sorrow.

But why do children need to starve so I can understand the joy of the ribeye I'm about to eat?

The balance of joy and sorrow is way off, especially for a created or designed world.

[aubfaninga 16]

I understand the thinking that you can't understand joy unless you've felt sorrow.

But why do children need to starve so I can understand the joy of the ribeye I'm about to eat?

The balance of joy and sorrow is way off, especially for a created or designed world.

So are you saying that GOD forced you to not give that beef to a starving child? Or was this condition in fact a product of your decision?

Can you show me a created(designed) thing, or world, to use as the example you are speaking of? I need to see this "perfect" condition to have something to judge against. I always thought this "perfection" was just fantasy.

To believe that such a thing exists outside of our imagination shows a lot of blind FAITH. (we are really not much different)

[AURaptor 1,122]

Agree? With what exactly?

Do you not see the posted video ? It's self explanatory

[Aufan59 61]

I understand the thinking that you can't understand joy unless you've felt sorrow.

But why do children need to starve so I can understand the joy of the ribeye I'm about to eat?

The balance of joy and sorrow is way off, especially for a created or designed world.

So are you saying that GOD forced you to not give that beef to a starving child? Or was this condition in fact a product of your decision?

Can you show me a created(designed) thing, or world, to use as the example you are speaking of? I need to see this "perfect" condition to have something to judge against. I always thought this "perfection" was just fantasy.

To believe that such a thing exists outside of our imagination shows a lot of blind FAITH. (we are really not much different) :)/>

God did not force me to not give this beef to a starving child. But he certainly created the conditions that allow me to eat delicious ribeye whenever I want while millions of children are starving.

I can't show you an example of a "perfect" condition. That is not the point. The point is that an all powerful God could create an earth far better than the one we have. Why would an all powerful God create an earth where children starve so I can understand the pleasure of eating my ribeye?

IF God created this world, with all of its injustices, why would I want to worship him?

[Weegle777 78]

59, do you have compassion for others? Do you feel that we should treat others as we want them to treat us? Do you love unconditionally? Are you a forgiving person? Do you feel joy? Do you have peace? Are you a patient person sometimes? Are you kind? Are you good to people? Are you faithful to your wife, girlfriend, partner? Are you a gentle person? And do you have self-control over yourself?

[aubfaninga 16]

God did not force me to not give this beef to a starving child. But he certainly created the conditions that allow me to eat delicious ribeye whenever I want while millions of children are starving.

I can't show you an example of a "perfect" condition. That is not the point. The point is that an all powerful God could create an earth far better than the one we have. Why would an all powerful God create an earth where children starve so I can understand the pleasure of eating my ribeye?

IF God created this world, with all of its injustices, why would I want to worship him?

Whether you choose to believe it or not is irrelevant. The Bible claims that "man" lived in the Garden of Eden when he was created. There was no death at all until he went against the FATHERS guidance. We can't overlook the claim.

You say there is no GOD and you agree that nothing has forced you to not do everything in your power to feed the starving. You have just >created< the very "injustice" you are using as your example.

So if there is no GOD, and you mock the conditions this world is in, why do you want to continue being human?

The scapegoat(GOD) that you want to say is the cause to all of this is in your reality "mankind".

So knowing that you are the "evil" one (by not feeding the starving), you feel ok worshipping yourself by sacrificing a cows life and offering it up to your mouth?

"There is no GOD and this is why I hate him"

[aubfaninga 16]

But why do children need to starve so I can understand the joy of the ribeye I'm about to eat?

What if you simply gave that ribeye to a starving child? Would you feel joy knowing you did what was right?

[selias 2,398]

Bone cancer in children? What's that about? How dare you?

Stephen Fry nailed it. Completely and utterly nailed it.

[aubfaninga 16]

Bone cancer in children? What's that about? How dare you?

Stephen Fry nailed it. Completely and utterly nailed it.

So Stephen Fry knows exactly how children are born with Bone Cancer? What exactly has he nailed?

It has nothing to do with pollution? It has nothing to do with how the parents treated their bodies? It has nothing to do with the diets of the parents? It has nothing to do with the hormones that is in food? It has nothing to do with the chemicals we treat our drinking water?

I don't have the answer to any of these questions which only puts us back at square one. (I do know extremes and if both parents smoke crack their entire life, and the mother continues to do so up until birth, I KNOW it effects the child)

Quote: "I'll say: bone cancer in children, what's that about? How dare you how dare you create a world where there is such misery that's not our fault? It's utterly, utterly evil,"

"The god who created this universe, if he created this universe, is quite clearly a maniac, an utter maniac, totally selfish.".

So again, if there is no GOD then there is no scapegoat. We love a man that ridicules "god" all while professing there is no "god" and ignoring who is responsible.

You are applauding his words but if you have "created" a child, or know anyone that has, he is directing his commits at "mankind". How dare parents produce a child knowing they have not perfectly maintained their DNA? How dare humans reproduce knowing this is not an ideal world?

In other words, Everyone that subjects a child to this world is evil.

Now quit blaming the scapegoat and do something to fix the problem.

"Yes, I am morally superior to this "no god" because I would never contribute to the evils I attribute to this "god" that does not exist" "There is no god and these are the reasons I hate him"

"clearly a maniac, an utter maniac, "

[DKW 86 7,419]

Swoosh, right over his head.

God loves us all, even though we might not be able to understand His ways.

I didn't find God until later in life. I questioned everything, Just like this guy. I can't imagine not having a profound relationship with a loving God, one that loves us in spite of the flaws, I don't question why things aren't perfect, if it were perfect, we would complain about being unchallenged in life. It's what we as humans do.

I am studying Ecclesiastes now, very humbling book.

[Aufan59 61]

God did not force me to not give this beef to a starving child. But he certainly created the conditions that allow me to eat delicious ribeye whenever I want while millions of children are starving.

I can't show you an example of a "perfect" condition. That is not the point. The point is that an all powerful God could create an earth far better than the one we have. Why would an all powerful God create an earth where children starve so I can understand the pleasure of eating my ribeye?

IF God created this world, with all of its injustices, why would I want to worship him?

Whether you choose to believe it or not is irrelevant. The Bible claims that "man" lived in the Garden of Eden when he was created. There was no death at all until he went against the FATHERS guidance. We can't overlook the claim.

You say there is no GOD and you agree that nothing has forced you to not do everything in your power to feed the starving. You have just >created< the very "injustice" you are using as your example.

So if there is no GOD, and you mock the conditions this world is in, why do you want to continue being human?

The scapegoat(GOD) that you want to say is the cause to all of this is in your reality "mankind".

So knowing that you are the "evil" one (by not feeding the starving), you feel ok worshipping yourself by sacrificing a cows life and offering it up to your mouth?

"There is no GOD and this is why I hate him

I did not create millions of starving, suffering children. Nor do I have the ability or resources to change it.

I didn't claim God doesn't exist. But if he does, and is all knowing and all powerful, then of course he is the scape goat. He created man knowing that man would go against his guidance, and would have to be punished.

Part of being an all knowing, all powerful creator of the universe is that you are fully responsible for the results.

[AURaptor 1,122]

The 'bone cancer in children' example isn't the entirety of Fry's dismissal of there being a god. It's one of an endless array of cruelties one can levy against the notion that god , if he exists, is a loving god.

[WarTim 3,456]

If you believe in God,and I do, you must acknowledge the "other" side of the coin. God is not the author of evil. (Give the devil his due. he is very good at his work) God is Love and every Good thing is a gift from God. JMHO.......

[AURaptor 1,122]

If you believe in God,and I do, you must acknowledge the "other" side of the coin. God is not the author of evil. (Give the devil his due. he is very good at his work) God is Love and every Good thing is a gift from God. JMHO.......

So, while you DON'T agree, you at least understand the point being made, right ?

[WarTim 3,456]

Got it.

[WarTim 3,456]

Swoosh, right over his head.

God loves us all, even though we might not be able to understand His ways.

I didn't find God until later in life. I questioned everything, Just like this guy. I can't imagine not having a profound relationship with a loving God, one that loves us in spite of the flaws, I don't question why things aren't perfect, if it were perfect, we would complain about being unchallenged in life. It's what we as humans do.

I am studying Ecclesiastes now, very humbling book.

Thank you Sir. God bless.

[DKW 86 7,419]

The 'bone cancer in children' example isn't the entirety of Fry's dismissal of there being a god. It's one of an endless array of cruelties one can levy against the notion that god , if he exists, is a loving god.

Oh i see your point now. If it is an evil, it is attributable to that God thingy. If it is a good, LIKE CURING THE CANCER AND THE THANKFULNESS THAT COMES WITH IT, well that must be a random occurence or attributable to man only.

Nice lil BOX you draw there. Outcome is structured into the answer you want by the construct itself. WTG, college educated dude...

[Aufan59 61]

The 'bone cancer in children' example isn't the entirety of Fry's dismissal of there being a god. It's one of an endless array of cruelties one can levy against the notion that god , if he exists, is a loving god.

Oh i see your point now. If it is an evil, it is attributable to that God thingy. If it is a good, LIKE CURING THE CANCER AND THE THANKFULNESS THAT COMES WITH IT, well that must be a random occurence or attributable to man only.

Nice lil BOX you draw there. Outcome is structured into the answer you want by the construct itself. WTG, college educated dude...

Not at all. If God exists, he gets credit for all the good stuff, too.

But if he exists, why does he give children miserable bone cancer? Or have them die of disease and famine before they even had a chance at growing up? Surely there was a better way.

[DKW 86 7,419]

Strictly speaking, the answer is found in the bible many different ways. The "Clay" (MANKIND) doesnt ask the "Potter" (God) why and what.

You know, the last time a tornado, or a hurricane came thru, I dont remember anyone asking "Katrina, why are you such a beyotch?"

Let me ask you the same question we have debated here ad nauseum, If there is no God: Why do good?

If there is no God, then ultimately "good" boils down to nothing more than opinion and all opinions are equal and essentially worth no more than anyone else's.

[WarTim 3,456]

The 'bone cancer in children' example isn't the entirety of Fry's dismissal of there being a god. It's one of an endless array of cruelties one can levy against the notion that god , if he exists, is a loving god.

Oh i see your point now. If it is an evil, it is attributable to that God thingy. If it is a good, LIKE CURING THE CANCER AND THE THANKFULNESS THAT COMES WITH IT, well that must be a random occurence or attributable to man only.

Nice lil BOX you draw there. Outcome is structured into the answer you want by the construct itself. WTG, college educated dude...

Not at all. If God exists, he gets credit for all the good stuff, too.

But if he exists, why does he give children miserable bone cancer? Or have them die of disease and famine before they even had a chance at growing up? Surely there was a better way.

It is the age old question. But it also begs the question "Why do good things happen to bad people?" I believe God has a plan. We can't see tomorrow. He can. How many times in life can we look back and certain "things" make sense? I trust Him and His perfect Will.

[Aufan59 61]

Strictly speaking, the answer is found in the bible many different ways. The "Clay" (MANKIND) doesnt ask the "Potter" (God) why and what.

You know, the last time a tornado, or a hurricane came thru, I dont remember anyone asking "Katrina, why are you such a beyotch?"

Let me ask you the same question we have debated here ad nauseum, If there is no God: Why do good?

If there is no God, then ultimately "good" boils down to nothing more than opinion and all opinions are equal and essentially worth no more than anyone else's.

"Good" boils down to opinion regardless of whether God exists or not.

We do good because we are intelligent beings who can put ourselves into other people's shoes and understand how they would feel if we were to treat them poorly.

If you only do good because you feel coerced into it by God, I pity you.

[homersapien 11,366]

The idea of morality - or "good" - could be an example of evolutionary development. A moral society is more robust than an amoral society from an evolutionary standpoint.

Morality is a natural phenomenon.