This is going to annoy EVERYONE. But I agree w/ this gay, married man.

[WarTim 3,456]

I agree. Well done Ichy

[channonc 466]

I agree. Well done Ichy

Wow, we agree on something!

[WarTim 3,456]

Most likely more than you think.......

[channonc 466]

Most likely more than you think.......

At the top of that list is Auburn is great!

[AUFAN78 3,894]

I have absolute certainty that God does indeed exist. I also understand and, respect those who question His existence.

In this world, evil is permitted to exist and, even thrive if that is what mankind chooses. Our freewill is not compromised. Christianity, the Bible, the Church, are not above being corrupted. In my opinion, the only way to know Christ, is to allow Him and His perfect love to reside in your heart. This will not make you perfect but, you will be keenly aware of right and wrong. You will begin to understand your own hypocrisies. You will no longer be concerned with the contradictions found in doctrine and the Bible. The confusion that is created by attempting to reconcile religious philosophy with political philosophy will end.

In my most humble opinion, Christ is perfect love. Our ability to understand is limited. It is as limited as our ability to understand the concept of our earthly lifetimes versus eternal life. The greatest hope for ourselves, and the world, is to invite Christ into our hearts. Only then can we begin to understand Christ's love and, the meaning of our existence. Too often, I believe Christians look for the answers in the Bible rather than turning to the love of Christ that should be in their hearts. I truly believe that one can memorize the Bible and yet, know nothing about Christ. I believe that this is what Christ meant when he said, HE is the word.

Again, in my most humble opinion, the real call of Christ is not to fight or defeat evil, it is not to attain a scholarly wisdom of the Bible, but rather, to feel, know, and reflect His perfect love, to the best of our ability. Only then, can we make a real difference.

Christ is the opposite of hate, suffering, and misery. Here on earth, for a relatively, and extremely, short period of time, evil is allowed free reign. We can not blame Christ for allowing it. We can only blame ourselves for corrupting or refusing His message of love and, promoting the evil that we embrace. The love of Christ is not the reason for war, famine, disease. The love of Christ is the solution. We as humans, particularly Christians, are failing,,, not the perfect love of Christ.

Nice post ICHY.

[AUFAN78 3,894]

Still find this thread funny. :laugh:/>

It is funny and it gets repeated about 2X a year.

Yeah, I can tell you think it's funny by the way your posts are steeped in good nature. :-\/>

Put on your big girl panties and shut up...Please?

The sophomoric insults don't help your case or your reputation. Just the opposite.

Some one needs to take a long look in a mirror. (I already have. Thus my attempt at being more civil). We would all be better for the effort.

What? A kinder more civil AUF Poli Forum?

Seriously, regardless of outcome, thanks for the effort!

[aubfaninga 16]

The sophomoric insults don't help your case or your reputation. Just the opposite.

I do not take your jabs personal and I hope you feel the same. I am probably about to get stoned but I thought you might enjoy the irony. I can be lighthearted with the best of them but if I do not stand for my beliefs how could anyone respect me? Just watch what happens when a person truly is not "politically correct".

You can choose to believe however you like but this prophecy has already been proposed. If it does not come to pass my faith has a serious problem. I would like you to google just one scripture for me. 2 Timothy 4:1-10 ..... This is the infamous "ItCHY ears" chapter. Now notice in verse 10 that Demas loved something and forsaken Paul all at the same time.

Now, you were given a full page write up teaching you on the fallacy of an opinion. Then a person was applauded when they said the Bible was contradictory and it was of no value to put effort into learning it's contents. SMH

The bible claims that Yeshua did not sin and that he was holy. The bible claims the LAW is also without sin and holy. Add the 2 together and we can pick Jesus out of a crowd of 10 trillion people. "The WORD became flesh". Not a hard concept to understand.

"Judaism" (which contradicts Moses LAW in so many ways) did not accept Jesus when he walked this earth because they loved so much. They loved their religion, they loved their traditions, and they loved their opinions that were not rooted in scripture. I wonder how the church today would accept Jesus if he walked into any church and started teaching.

I am going to stop here. When you get bored and find the time please review this one site to see my angle on this. http://www.alliance4...conceptions.php

*Disclaimer for everyone else

I directed this at homer for a reason. He has become my non believing scapegoat to direct my faith at because of the sensitivity of some. If you feel that I have personally attacked you, please PM me and we can discuss a venue to talk these matters out. I did attack a gospel being preached.

[homersapien 11,366]

The sophomoric insults don't help your case or your reputation. Just the opposite.

I do not take your jabs personal and I hope you feel the same. I am probably about to get stoned but I thought you might enjoy the irony. I can be lighthearted with the best of them but if I do not stand for my beliefs how could anyone respect me? Just watch what happens when a person truly is not "politically correct".

You can choose to believe however you like but this prophecy has already been proposed. If it does not come to pass my faith has a serious problem. I would like you to google just one scripture for me. 2 Timothy 4:1-10 ..... This is the infamous "ItCHY ears" chapter. Now notice in verse 10 that Demas loved something and forsaken Paul all at the same time.

Now, you were given a full page write up teaching you on the fallacy of an opinion. Then a person was applauded when they said the Bible was contradictory and it was of no value to put effort into learning it's contents. SMH

The bible claims that Yeshua did not sin and that he was holy. The bible claims the LAW is also without sin and holy. Add the 2 together and we can pick Jesus out of a crowd of 10 trillion people. "The WORD became flesh". Not a hard concept to understand.

"Judaism" (which contradicts Moses LAW in so many ways) did not accept Jesus when he walked this earth because they loved so much. They loved their religion, they loved their traditions, and they loved their opinions that were not rooted in scripture. I wonder how the church today would accept Jesus if he walked into any church and started teaching.

I am going to stop here. When you get bored and find the time please review this one site to see my angle on this. http://www.alliance4...conceptions.php

*Disclaimer for everyone else

I directed this at homer for a reason. He has become my non believing scapegoat to direct my faith at because of the sensitivity of some. If you feel that I have personally attacked you, please PM me and we can discuss a venue to talk these matters out. I did attack a gospel being preached.

No worries. There's a big difference between gratuitous insults and a good jab. The former is mindless and pathetic. The latter is response-based (it is directed toward a specific statement). Preferably, it also includes a little wit or humor to keep things civil.

We're all adults. There's no reason why we can't play hard ball. In fact, I can appreciate receiving a good jab as well as dealing one.

It's the dumb, mindless insulting that we need to get rid of. It's poisonous and it's contagious. Most of all, it's just boring.

I'll get back to you on the other stuff after I have a chance to think about it.

[DKW 86 7,419]

I, too, agree with GA. If Christ walked into most churches in America, they would be just like the Pharisees of old. They would miss him again because he didnt have on a Rush Tie, a Hannity lapel pin, or a Glenn Beck bumper sticker on his car.

[aubfaninga 16]

I, too, agree with GA. If Christ walked into most churches in America, they would be just like the Pharisees of old. They would miss him again because he didnt have on a Rush Tie, a Hannity lapel pin, or a Glenn Beck bumper sticker on his car.

The thought of Jesus with a "Rush Tie" made me chuckle.

[AURaptor 1,122]

I had forgotten about Rush ties. Do those still sell ?

Did they ever ? I never bought one.

Don't wear ties.

[homersapien 11,366]

Still find this thread funny. :laugh:/>

It is funny and it gets repeated about 2X a year.

Yeah, I can tell you think it's funny by the way your posts are steeped in good nature. :-\/>

Put on your big girl panties and shut up...Please?

The sophomoric insults don't help your case or your reputation. Just the opposite.

Some one needs to take a long look in a mirror. (I already have. Thus my attempt at being more civil). We would all be better for the effort.

Excuse me, but my insults aren't sophomoric.

And to be accurate, I haven't thrown an insult at all throughout this intemperate exchange with DKW. Go back and check.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

The sophomoric insults don't help your case or your reputation. Just the opposite.

I do not take your jabs personal and I hope you feel the same. I am probably about to get stoned but I thought you might enjoy the irony. I can be lighthearted with the best of them but if I do not stand for my beliefs how could anyone respect me? Just watch what happens when a person truly is not "politically correct".

You can choose to believe however you like but this prophecy has already been proposed. If it does not come to pass my faith has a serious problem. I would like you to google just one scripture for me. 2 Timothy 4:1-10 ..... This is the infamous "ItCHY ears" chapter. Now notice in verse 10 that Demas loved something and forsaken Paul all at the same time.

Now, you were given a full page write up teaching you on the fallacy of an opinion. Then a person was applauded when they said the Bible was contradictory and it was of no value to put effort into learning it's contents. SMH

The bible claims that Yeshua did not sin and that he was holy. The bible claims the LAW is also without sin and holy. Add the 2 together and we can pick Jesus out of a crowd of 10 trillion people. "The WORD became flesh". Not a hard concept to understand.

"Judaism" (which contradicts Moses LAW in so many ways) did not accept Jesus when he walked this earth because they loved so much. They loved their religion, they loved their traditions, and they loved their opinions that were not rooted in scripture. I wonder how the church today would accept Jesus if he walked into any church and started teaching.

I am going to stop here. When you get bored and find the time please review this one site to see my angle on this. http://www.alliance4...conceptions.php

*Disclaimer for everyone else

I directed this at homer for a reason. He has become my non believing scapegoat to direct my faith at because of the sensitivity of some. If you feel that I have personally attacked you, please PM me and we can discuss a venue to talk these matters out. I did attack a gospel being preached.

I have no desire to enter into an argument over Christianity. I believe that Christians allowing themselves to be divided by dogma and interpretation is sad. I feel we should be united in the love of Christ and His perfect love for us.

However, you have attributed words to me that are not mine. I have never said the Bible has no value. Whether intentional, or unintentional, I have to wonder why you would do this?

My only contention is this. Jesus and His perfect love are the basis of Christianity, not the Bible. You can know the Bible and yet, not know Jesus. Our faith is in Christ, not the Bible. We follow Christ, not the Bible. Our calling is to love, not to be Biblical scholars. Our ultimate guide should be Christ in our hearts. In no way does this mean that the Bible has no value. Allow me say it like this, in my most humble opinion, it is much more important to make Christ and His perfect love part of our lives, part of our hearts, than it is to know the Bible in our heads. We can talk to God. He will answer. For myself, that is my ultimate resource.

I have no desire to tell anyone how to practice their faith. I hope that I have not offended you or anyone else. I am humbly offering my opinion. I hope you understand.

[homersapien 11,366]

The sophomoric insults don't help your case or your reputation. Just the opposite.

......You can choose to believe however you like but this prophecy has already been proposed. If it does not come to pass my faith has a serious problem. I would like you to google just one scripture for me. 2 Timothy 4:1-10 ..... This is the infamous "ItCHY ears" chapter. Now notice in verse 10 that Demas loved something and forsaken Paul all at the same time.

Now, you were given a full page write up teaching you on the fallacy of an opinion. Then a person was applauded when they said the Bible was contradictory and it was of no value to put effort into learning it's contents. SMH

The bible claims that Yeshua did not sin and that he was holy. The bible claims the LAW is also without sin and holy. Add the 2 together and we can pick Jesus out of a crowd of 10 trillion people. "The WORD became flesh". Not a hard concept to understand.

"Judaism" (which contradicts Moses LAW in so many ways) did not accept Jesus when he walked this earth because they loved so much. They loved their religion, they loved their traditions, and they loved their opinions that were not rooted in scripture. I wonder how the church today would accept Jesus if he walked into any church and started teaching.

I am going to stop here. When you get bored and find the time please review this one site to see my angle on this. http://www.alliance4...conceptions.php

*Disclaimer for everyone else

I directed this at homer for a reason. He has become my non believing scapegoat to direct my faith at because of the sensitivity of some. If you feel that I have personally attacked you, please PM me and we can discuss a venue to talk these matters out. I did attack a gospel being preached.

No offense, but if one doesn't believe in a God - or at least a Christian God - why in the world would they accept 2000 year-old manuscripts as sacred?

You need to understand my disbelief is more than a simple intellectual rejection of specific dogma, it's emotionally and spiritually organic. In other words, I don't think one can "choose" to believe. One must have the inherent propensity or willingness to believe.

I began to question Christian dogma at a very early age - at about 9 or 10 as I recall. At the time, this was not based on reason alone. I honestly did not "feel" it. I couldn't convince myself it was true no matter hard I tried. And I did try. I continued to try for years, even up to the time I was at Auburn. (I briefly dated a very religious girl so I had extra motivation.)

I finally came to conclude that I just didn't have it in me to be a true believer. I lacked the "God" gene.

Having said that, I will readily admit that I simply don't know. Intellectually, a definitive claim that God doesn't exist is just as faulty as a claim it does. Likewise, I am receptive to the message of Jesus. I just don't accept the personal salvation bit, which to me, comes across as more dogmatic than spiritual.

[Weegle777 78]

Very interesting homer. Do you have trouble with Jesus being the Son of God, or is it just the salvation part?

[homersapien 11,366]

Very interesting homer. Do you have trouble with Jesus being the Son of God, or is it just the salvation part?

Yes. I obviously have trouble believing that anyone could be the "son of God".

I think of Jesus as being a spiritually and morally enlightened person much like Buddha (for example). Each obviously possessed a powerful charisma that was unique. Whether or not that charisma was due to some metaphysical or supernatural influence or insight cannot be known and thus, cannot be believed in my mind.

That doesn't necessarily devalue their message.

[autigeremt 6,599]

Very interesting homer. Do you have trouble with Jesus being the Son of God, or is it just the salvation part?

Yes. I obviously have trouble believing that anyone could be the "son of God".

I think of Jesus as being a spiritually and morally enlightened person much like Buddha (for example). Each obviously possessed a powerful charisma that was unique. Whether or not that charisma was due to some metaphysical or supernatural influence or insight cannot be known and thus, cannot be believed in my mind.

That doesn't necessarily devalue their message.

Unless you disagree which means resistance is futile.

[alexava 6,973]

The sophomoric insults don't help your case or your reputation. Just the opposite.

......You can choose to believe however you like but this prophecy has already been proposed. If it does not come to pass my faith has a serious problem. I would like you to google just one scripture for me. 2 Timothy 4:1-10 ..... This is the infamous "ItCHY ears" chapter. Now notice in verse 10 that Demas loved something and forsaken Paul all at the same time.

Now, you were given a full page write up teaching you on the fallacy of an opinion. Then a person was applauded when they said the Bible was contradictory and it was of no value to put effort into learning it's contents. SMH

The bible claims that Yeshua did not sin and that he was holy. The bible claims the LAW is also without sin and holy. Add the 2 together and we can pick Jesus out of a crowd of 10 trillion people. "The WORD became flesh". Not a hard concept to understand.

"Judaism" (which contradicts Moses LAW in so many ways) did not accept Jesus when he walked this earth because they loved so much. They loved their religion, they loved their traditions, and they loved their opinions that were not rooted in scripture. I wonder how the church today would accept Jesus if he walked into any church and started teaching.

I am going to stop here. When you get bored and find the time please review this one site to see my angle on this. http://www.alliance4...conceptions.php

*Disclaimer for everyone else

I directed this at homer for a reason. He has become my non believing scapegoat to direct my faith at because of the sensitivity of some. If you feel that I have personally attacked you, please PM me and we can discuss a venue to talk these matters out. I did attack a gospel being preached.

No offense, but if one doesn't believe in a God - or at least a Christian God - why in the world would they accept 2000 year-old manuscripts as sacred?

You need to understand my disbelief is more than a simple intellectual rejection of specific dogma, it's emotionally and spiritually organic. In other words, I don't think one can "choose" to believe. One must have the inherent propensity or willingness to believe.

I began to question Christian dogma at a very early age - at about 9 or 10 as I recall. At the time, this was not based on reason alone. I honestly did not "feel" it. I couldn't convince myself it was true no matter hard I tried. And I did try. I continued to try for years, even up to the time I was at Auburn. (I briefly dated a very religious girl so I had extra motivation.)

I finally came to conclude that I just didn't have it in me to be a true believer. I lacked the "God" gene.

Having said that, I will readily admit that I simply don't know. Intellectually, a definitive claim that God doesn't exist is just as faulty as a claim it does. Likewise, I am receptive to the message of Jesus. I just don't accept the personal salvation bit, which to me, comes across as more dogmatic than spiritual.

Homer, I'm 42 and still trying. I have been told im am "putting up walls" or resisting it. I don't think i am. It just hasn't happened yet. I envy those that have the comfort of salvation. I also dont think that we can just "choose to believe".

[AURaptor 1,122]

]Homer, I'm 42 and still trying. I have been told im am "putting up walls" or resisting it. I don't think i am. It just hasn't happened yet. I envy those that have the comfort of salvation. I also dont think that we can just "choose to believe".

If at 42 it hasn't taken to ya, I doubt it ever will. Not sure how you expect it to " happen ". Maybe a voice ? A burning bush ? Some old guy in a fishing cap comes up to you and says " Hi !! I'm God . It's time to believe in me ! " ?

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

I, too, agree with GA. If Christ walked into most churches in America, they would be just like the Pharisees of old. They would miss him again because he didnt have on a Rush Tie, a Hannity lapel pin, or a Glenn Beck bumper sticker on his car.

Why can we not favorite posts?

[Weegle777 78]

I, too, agree with GA. If Christ walked into most churches in America, they would be just like the Pharisees of old. They would miss him again because he didnt have on a Rush Tie, a Hannity lapel pin, or a Glenn Beck bumper sticker on his car.

Why can we not favorite posts?

He wouldn't walk into churches anyway, He would be with people who are hurting like the homeless on the corner, the prostitutes on the streets, the drug addicts in the alleys, in the food kitchen feeding people, and with the kids who are contemplating suicide. Jesus was vilified because He was always with those deemed "not worthy". That is why He was and is so loved, and why He was hated by the "churchy" people.

[aubfaninga 16]

I, too, agree with GA. If Christ walked into most churches in America, they would be just like the Pharisees of old. They would miss him again because he didnt have on a Rush Tie, a Hannity lapel pin, or a Glenn Beck bumper sticker on his car.

Why can we not favorite posts?

He wouldn't walk into churches anyway, He would be with people who are hurting like the homeless on the corner, the prostitutes on the streets, the drug addicts in the alleys, in the food kitchen feeding people, and with the kids who are contemplating suicide. Jesus was vilified because He was always with those deemed "not worthy". That is why He was and is so loved, and why He was hated by the "churchy" people.

We can bookmark this to show we do actually agree on some things.

[Grumps 3,704]

Don't be judgmental. There are many "real" Christians in church, and Jesus would be there too.

[Weegle777 78]

Not being judgmental, just saying that He would probably head straight toward people that are hurting first.

[Grumps 3,704]

"He wouldn't walk into churches anyway."