Jump to content

This is going to annoy EVERYONE. But I agree w/ this gay, married man.


AURaptor

Recommended Posts

It does say that only a handful will make it in right, maybe they viewed themselves as the golden ticket holders.

Always enjoyed those guys, at uni they for some reason allowed preachers in the center of university, they would hold up a bible and point to all the passing students and tell them exactly why God hated them and why they were doomed to burn for all eternity.

I used to get a footlong sub and sit beside them and eat, it was the most entertaining thing about that college.

Link to comment
Share on other sites





  • Replies 188
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Wish I had that verse on my mind when I crossed paths w/ a few Jim and Tammy Faye types, back in the day.

Raptor, i cannot abide Jim & Tammy Faye, etc. They do so much damage to the church as a whole.

They aren't the only ones. I've had personal experience w/ " Christians " who tried to tell me that those who believe in Jesus, the word, a certain church, what ever, will get rewarded , HERE ON EARTH, and live just fine. Why wait 'til heaven to enjoy God's bounty ?

You can enjoy a daily walk with Christ. The "reward" should not be the goal. Serving God should be the goal. JMHO

I was working, so I wasn't about to get into a theological discussion w/ a customer. But I was a hairsbreadth away from saying something along those lines. There was a smugness w/ this guy which I didn't trust. Older guy, elderly even. I could tell that he was a true believer in his views, and he wasn't ever going to be swayed. I think I nodded, said something polite, and moved on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most Christians don't know how to read the Bible in context. They will flip to Exodus or Deuteronomy and think that the commands meant for the Jews apply to everyone now, which simply isn't truth.

The most used excuse verse used is this one:

2Timothy 3:16

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

They will say, "See! It says right here that it's ALL for us!"

Which is when I say, "No, it says that all scripture is "useful"."

The problem is that when a person is saved, they are told,

1. Stop sinning or God won't bless you.

2. Read your bible or God won't bless you.

3. Tithe, or God won't bless you.

4. Pray or God won't bless you.

5. Salvation is free, but it will cost you everything.

6. Follow the great commission or you will be out of God's will.

All of these are LIES.

Jesus said that "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

Yet when a person is saved, they are burdened and yoked with heavy "you must do this or God won't do...." lists. Which are lies.

No wonder people don't want anything to do with Christianity.

Newly saved people aren't taught correctly on how to read the Bible in context, or what Grace really means for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It does say that only a handful will make it in right, maybe they viewed themselves as the golden ticket holders.

Always enjoyed those guys, at uni they for some reason allowed preachers in the center of university, they would hold up a bible and point to all the passing students and tell them exactly why God hated them and why they were doomed to burn for all eternity.

I used to get a footlong sub and sit beside them and eat, it was the most entertaining thing about that college.

Actually, the Bible says Whosoever will.... BTW. The footling sub story made me LOL. Thanks!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most Christians don't know how to read the Bible in context. They will flip to Exodus or Deuteronomy and think that the commands meant for the Jews apply to everyone now, which simply isn't truth.

The most used excuse verse used is this one:

2Timothy 3:16

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

They will say, "See! It says right here that it's ALL for us!"

Which is when I say, "No, it says that all scripture is "useful"."

The problem is that when a person is saved, they are told,

1. Stop sinning or God won't bless you.

2. Read your bible or God won't bless you.

3. Tithe, or God won't bless you.

4. Pray or God won't bless you.

5. Salvation is free, but it will cost you everything.

6. Follow the great commission or you will be out of God's will.

All of these are LIES.

Jesus said that "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

Yet when a person is saved, they are burdened and yoked with heavy "you must do this or God won't do...." lists. Which are lies.

No wonder people don't want anything to do with Christianity.

Newly saved people aren't taught correctly on how to read the Bible in context, or what Grace really means for them.

"People don't want anything to do with Christianity".....hmmmmm. We sure do have a bit of a stretch there....
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's sad, because if you ask most Christians when the New Covenant began, most will answer,

"When Jesus was born."

Which couldn't be more wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Newly saved people aren't taught correctly on how to read the Bible in context, or what Grace really means for them.

"Newly saved people aren't taught correctly on how to read the bible in context" I agree!!! Your only verse given was from 2 Timothy 3. Let us break this down in context since you accuse people of reading things out of context.

2 Timothy 2:4-5 "No soldier when in service gets entangled in the enterprises of [civilian] life; his aim is to satisfy and please the one who enlisted him. And if anyone enters competitive games, he is not crowned unless he competes lawfully (fairly, according to the rules laid down)."

Who enlisted us and what rulebook did he live his life by???

2 Timothy 2:15-18 "Study and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God approved (tested by trial), a workman who has no cause to be ashamed, correctly analyzing and accurately dividing [rightly handling and skillfully teaching] the Word of Truth. But avoid all empty (vain, useless, idle) talk, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness. And their teaching [will devour; it] will eat its way like cancer or spread like gangrene. So it is with Hymenaeus and Philetus, Who have missed the mark and swerved from the truth by arguing that the resurrection has already taken place. They are undermining the faith of some."

Hymenaeus is the one that was removed from the "church" because he was living in sin.(see 1 Timothy) He is included in the context because while he was a "believing and professing" Christian he was living contrary to scripture. First example and warning that sets the context.

2 Timothy 2:20-21 "But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also [utensils] of wood and earthenware, and some for honorable and noble [use] and some for menial and ignoble [use]. So whoever cleanses himself [from what is ignoble and unclean, who separates himself from contact with contaminating and corrupting influences] will [then himself] be a vessel set apart and useful for honorable and noble purposes, consecrated and profitable to the Master, fit and ready for any good work."

I have heard this "set apart" language somewhere before but how would anyone know this language if they don't study???

2 Timothy 2:25-26 "He must correct his opponents with courtesy and gentleness, in the hope that God may grant that they will repent and come to know the Truth [that they will perceive and recognize and become accurately acquainted with and acknowledge it], And that they may come to their senses [and] escape out of the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him, [henceforth] to do His [God’s] will."

Correct from what? Repent from what? What is GODs will?

Now we get into the meat of the context....

2 Timothy 3:1-8 " B ut understand this, that in the last days will come (set in) perilous times of great stress and trouble [hard to deal with and hard to bear]. For people will be lovers of self and [utterly] self-centered, lovers of money and aroused by an inordinate [greedy] desire for wealth, proud and arrogant and contemptuous boasters. They will be abusive (blasphemous, scoffing), disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy and profane. [They will be] without natural [human] affection (callous and inhuman), relentless (admitting of no truce or appeasement); [they will be] slanderers (false accusers, troublemakers), intemperate and loose in morals and conduct, uncontrolled and fierce, haters of good.

[They will be] treacherous [betrayers], rash, [and] inflated with self-conceit. [They will be] lovers of sensual pleasures and vain amusements more than and rather than lovers of God. For [although] they hold a form of piety (true religion), they deny and reject and are strangers to the power of it [their conduct belies the genuineness of their profession]. Avoid [all] such people [turn away from them]. For among them are those who worm their way into homes and captivate silly and weak-natured and spiritually dwarfed women, loaded down with [the burden of their] sins [and easily] swayed and led away by various evil desires and seductive impulses. [These weak women will listen to anybody who will teach them]; they are forever inquiring and getting information, but are never able to arrive at a recognition and knowledge of the Truth. Now just as [a]Jannes and Jambres were hostile to and resisted Moses, so these men also are hostile to and oppose the Truth. They have depraved and distorted minds, and are reprobate and counterfeit and to be rejected as far as the faith is concerned."

Who Jannes and Jambres were, is of no value to me. The fact that they resisted and stood against Moses is all I need to know about the people Paul is telling us to flee from. People that are hostile toward the writings of Moses ALWAYS fit the description of verses 1-8. Moses gave a 100% blueprint on how to point out the messiah when he walks in the flesh. NO DEBATE!!! If you resist Moses words you will resist the Christ. THIS IS JESUS' very own words... ""For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. "But if you >>>do not believe his writings<<<, how will you believe My words?"

2 Timothy 3:13-15 "But wicked men and imposters will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and leading astray others and being deceived and led astray themselves. But as for you, continue to hold to the things that you have learned and of which you are convinced, knowing from whom you learned [them],

And how from your childhood you have had a knowledge of and been acquainted with the sacred Writings, which are able to instruct you and give you the understanding for salvation which comes through faith in Christ Jesus [through the leaning of the entire human personality on God in Christ Jesus in absolute trust and confidence in His power, wisdom, and goodness]."

We don't have to ask, WWJD? We have the sacred writings.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 "Every Scripture is God-breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, [and] for training in righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God’s will in thought, purpose, and action), So that the man of God may be complete and proficient, well fitted and thoroughly equipped for every good work."

I will not touch this but I will continue with context.

2 Timothy 4:1-4 "I charge [you] in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, Who is to judge the living and the dead, and by (in the light of) His coming and His kingdom: Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching. For the time is coming when [people] will not tolerate (endure) sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching [for something pleasing and gratifying], they will gather to themselves one teacher after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors they hold, And will turn aside from hearing the truth and wander off into myths and man-made fictions."

GOD forbid anyone from using Deuteronomy to show their doctrine when Paul did it with these verses and does it all the time.

I quoted Deuteronomy 6. What does the gospel testify that Jesus did when he lived?

"You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. Always remember these commands that I give you today. Be sure to teach them to your children. Talk about these commands when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road. Talk about them when you lie down and when you get up."

This was not simply for the "JEWS"... this was exactly what Jesus did!!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most Christians don't know how to read the Bible in context. They will flip to Exodus or Deuteronomy and think that the commands meant for the Jews apply to everyone now, which simply isn't truth.

Jesus said that "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

Yet when a person is saved, they are burdened and yoked with heavy "you must do this or God won't do...." lists. Which are lies.

No wonder people don't want anything to do with Christianity.

"My yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

Matthew 11:28-30 "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light

Taken in context this was intended for his earliest disciples (all JEWS). He was saying, "LEARN FROM ME". Later he gives another teaching which illustrates his direct contrast to the "educated" leaders of his time.

Matthew 23 "Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses; seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe,[a] that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on mens shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do to be seen by men."

We have the opposites now back to Matthew 11...

Let us first see how this rest was is seen in the scriptures.

Exodus 5

"Afterward Moses and Aaron went in and told Pharaoh, Thus says the Lord God of Israel: Let My people go, that they may hold a feast to Me in the wilderness. And Pharaoh said,Who is the Lord, that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? I do not know the Lord, nor will I let Israel go. So they said, The God of the Hebrews has met with us. Please, let us go three days journey into the desert and sacrifice to the Lord our God, lest He fall upon us with pestilence or with the sword. Then the king of Egypt said to them,

Moses and Aaron, why do you take the people from their work? Get back to your labor.

>>>And Pharaoh said, Look, the people of the land are many now, and you make them rest from their labor!<<<

According to our Mathew passage, Yeshua also knows of a rest and desires to lead others into that rest. What is the rest that Yeshua is speaking of?

Yeshua begins to identify this rest when he says; "take my yoke upon you and learn from me". Here Yeshua is referring to "learning" which can be seen as two oxen yoked together for plowing. An older, stronger more experienced ox is placed in a yoke next to a younger less experienced ox. The young then learns his responsibilities from the older through the yoke. The rest Yeshua offers is the yoke with which we are bound to him. What is the yoke? How do we, as the younger ox, learn from Yeshua, the older ox? The yoke is the scriptures, the teachings of God. As Yeshua walked the scriptures, we who are yoked to him learn the ways of Yeshua through the yoke.

Yeshua then says that he is "humble and gentle of spirit, you will find peace for your heart". He is telling us that as the older and stronger ox, he will be gentle with us and not force us to move faster or work harder than we can bare. The stronger we get, the faster he will move and the harder he will work us.

We could easily translate Yeshua's next statement; "for my yoke is pleasent and light is my burden" as "my teaching is easy". In Deuteronomy 30:11 God said "this command which I command today is not difficult and it is not out of your reach".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which covenant are you under? Simple question.

The better question to ask is who are you in covenant with?

I am in covenant with the GOD of ISRAEL.

Who are you in covenant with?

The covenant given to Israel at the mountain ,when the 10 commandments were spoken, was broken by all. This covenant was made null and void in the wilderness.

Moses then speaks of a new covenant offered. This covenant is a promise and GOD himself will see that his WORD is true.

Start with Deuteronomy 29 you can read all about this New Covenant that is still applicable today. If you choose to believe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've studied the Pentateuch a lot more than the Christian teachings.....

Doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading about it though:)

You may or may not enjoy these videos. I find it interesting to see how "Jews" feel liberated from "man made teachings" once they learn the real Jesus. These videos are intended for people practicing "Judaism" as taught from the Oral LAW. (mans LAW from his mind)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which covenant are you under? Simple question.

The better question to ask is who are you in covenant with?

I am in covenant with the GOD of ISRAEL.

Who are you in covenant with?

The covenant given to Israel at the mountain ,when the 10 commandments were spoken, was broken by all. This covenant was made null and void in the wilderness.

Moses then speaks of a new covenant offered. This covenant is a promise and GOD himself will see that his WORD is true.

Start with Deuteronomy 29 you can read all about this New Covenant that is still applicable today. If you choose to believe.

You avoided the question. And your statement is incorrect. You are in covenant with no one. The old covenant was cut with Moses and the Jewish people. The New Covenant was cut between God and God. We are just beneficiaries of this new covenant.

Hebrews 6:13-20

13 When God made his promise to Abraham, since there was no one greater for him to swear by, he swore by himself, 14 saying, “I will surely bless you and give you many descendants.”[d] 15 And so after waiting patiently, Abraham received what was promised.

16 People swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17 Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18 God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged. 19 We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20 where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course it is anti-Semitic. For most of their beliefs, just not recognizing them as a superior people is anti-Semitic.

Hell, in Israel right now if you claim that people have a right to choose non jewish husbands/wives you will be labeled as anti-Semitic.

There's also the problem of having multiple sources that were meshed together to create their scripture. The northern and southern kingdoms of Israel with the gods El and YHWH respectively.

Mashing them into one book later, and then having a priestly order try and make it one contiguous story creates problems that people later have to struggle through.

The New Testament isn't even close to being the only books they are banned from reading either, I think the dead sea scrolls were once taught to be evil works, and those that laid eyes upon them would then be rejected by God forever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You avoided the question. And your statement is incorrect. You are in covenant with no one. The old covenant was cut with Moses and the Jewish people. The New Covenant was cut between God and God. We are just beneficiaries of this new covenant.

Hebrews 6:13-20

13 When God made his promise to Abraham, since there was no one greater for him to swear by, he swore by himself, 14 saying, "I will surely bless you and give you many descendants."[d] 15 And so after waiting patiently, Abraham received what was promised.

16 People swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17 Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18 God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged. 19 We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20 where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

Oh dear!!! I have no idea where to go with this one. Weegs if you cannot understand the covenantal language of being "the bride of Christ" then we have nothing more to discuss. If you want to confess that you are not in covenant with GODs will then knock yourself out.

Hebrews 6 is telling of a promise that was made to a man that was in Covenant relationship with GOD. Your doctrine completely disregards the fact that Abraham was first tested and then you disregard why the promise was given.

>>>>>>>>>>Proof Abraham was in Covenant before the promise!!!<<<<<<<<<

Genesis 15:6 "And he [Abram] believed in (trusted in, relied on, remained steadfast to) the Lord, and He [the Lord] counted it to him as righteousness (right standing with God).

Genesis 15:18 "On the same day the Lord made a covenant (promise, pledge) with Abram, saying, To your descendants I have given this land"

>>>>If Abraham had forsaken GODS command to cut the animals in half the covenant would have never been made.<<<<

Genesis 17:4 "On the same day the Lord made a covenant (promise, pledge) with Abram, saying, To your descendants I have given this land"

Genesis 17:7 "And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting, solemn pledge, to be a God to you and to your posterity after you."

Genesis 17:9-14 "And God said to Abraham, As for you, you shall therefore keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your posterity after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. And you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be a token or sign of the covenant (the promise or pledge) between Me and you. He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male throughout your generations, whether born in [your] house or bought with [your] money from any foreigner not of your offspring. He that is born in your house and he that is bought with your money must be circumcised; and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

And the male who is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant."

>>>>>>Proof a circumcised (heart) person is in Covenant with GOD<<<<<<<<<

Ephesians 2:11-13 "Therefore, remember that at one time you were Gentiles (heathens) in the flesh, called Uncircumcision by those who called themselves Circumcision, [itself a [e]mere mark] in the flesh made by human hands. [Remember] that you were at that time separated (living apart) from Christ [excluded from all part in Him], utterly estranged and outlawed from the rights of Israel as a nation, and strangers with no share in the sacred compacts of the [Messianic] promise [with no knowledge of or right in God’s agreements, His covenants]. And you had no hope (no promise); you were in the world without God. But now in Christ Jesus, you who once were [so] far away, through (by, in) the blood of Christ have been brought near."

Abraham was then tested.

Genesis 22:1 "After these events, God tested and proved Abraham and said to him, Abraham! And he said, Here I am.

[God] said, Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah; and offer him there as a burnt offering upon one of the mountains of which I will tell you."

Genesis 22:12 "And He said, Do not lay your hand on the lad or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear and revere God, since you have not held back from Me or begrudged giving Me your son, your only son."

NOW THE PROMISE!!!

Genesis 22:16 "And said, I have sworn by Myself, says the Lord, that since you have done this and have not withheld [from Me] or begrudged [giving Me] your son, your only son,"

WHY???

Genesis 22:18 "because you have heard and obeyed My voice"

Psalm 95 and Hebrews 3 and 4

Maybe today you will hear and obey the Lords voice when he spoke the greatest commandment

Deuteronomy 6:4

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course it is anti-Semitic. For most of their beliefs, just not recognizing them as a superior people is anti-Semitic.

Hell, in Israel right now if you claim that people have a right to choose non jewish husbands/wives you will be labeled as anti-Semitic.

There's also the problem of having multiple sources that were meshed together to create their scripture. The northern and southern kingdoms of Israel with the gods El and YHWH respectively.

Mashing them into one book later, and then having a priestly order try and make it one contiguous story creates problems that people later have to struggle through.

The New Testament isn't even close to being the only books they are banned from reading either, I think the dead sea scrolls were once taught to be evil works, and those that laid eyes upon them would then be rejected by God forever.

Funny they made a video about "anti-Semitic". I don't think these guys will be getting any Hanukkah gifts from the local Rabbi's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pySNEWX_9s

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The love of Christ.

"See what [an incredible] quality of love the Father has given (shown, bestowed on) us, that we should [be permitted to] be named and called and counted the children of God! And so we are! The reason that the world does not know (recognize, acknowledge) us is that it does not know (recognize, acknowledge) Him. Beloved, we are [even here and] now God’s children; it is not yet disclosed (made clear) what we shall be [hereafter], but we know that when He comes and is manifested, we shall [as God’s children] resemble and be like Him, for we shall see Him just as He [really] is. And everyone who has this hope [resting] on Him cleanses (purifies) himself just as He is pure (chaste, undefiled, guiltless). Everyone who commits (practices) sin is guilty of lawlessness; for [that is what] sin is, lawlessness (the breaking, violating of God’s law by transgression or neglect—being unrestrained and unregulated by His commands and His will).

You know that He appeared in visible form and became Man to take away [upon Himself] sins, and in Him there is no sin [essentially and forever]. No one who abides in Him [who lives and remains in communion with and in obedience to Him—deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] commits (practices) sin. No one who [habitually] sins has either seen or known Him [recognized, perceived, or understood Him, or has had an experiential acquaintance with Him]."

"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."

Or we can just settle for the other gospel being promoted in the name of LOVE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujq3IVohZxY

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again I ask, which covenant are you under? The New or the Old? Simple question.

I am in Covenant with the GOD of Israel. This covenant is an everlasting and eternal covenant. Since I died and was born again I am "new". I died because of the "old" covenant which I broke. I was born into the "new" covenant which Yeshua has insured that I will fulfill.

"Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,…"

"I believe the man who is not willing to submit to the electing love and sovereign grace of God, has great reason to question whether he is a Christian at all, for the spirit that kicks against that is the spirit of the devil, and the spirit of the unhumbled, unrenewed heart. May God take away the enmity out of your heart to his own precious truth, and reconcile you to himself through THE BLOOD of his Son, which is the bond and seal of the everlasting covenant."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...