How Far Do We Let ISIS Go

[alexava 6,973]

And the ironic thing is, the same people who complain we are not constantly "out front" are the people who complain the Islamic nations are at least tacitly in support of ISIS and aren't doing enough. :-\/>

exactly.

[AUUSN 823]

This Da'esh turd tried to escape the Peshmerga dressed as a woman. Didn't work:

[icanthearyou 4,462]

And the ironic thing is, the same people who complain we are not constantly "out front" are the people who complain the Islamic nations are at least tacitly in support of ISIS and aren't doing enough. :-\/>

exactly.

Nah uh. The Jonestowners just cant get that Obama sux.

[WarTim 3,456]

Jordan is now leading the way, writing "For you, the enemies of Islam" on their bombs before dropping them right on ISIS heads.

Why is Jordan now more badass than America? What happened to us over the past 8 years?

Who trained them to fly their American F-16s? Who refueled them and jammed the air defenses on this most recent mission? Make no mistake, WE are leading the way. Jordan is getti g the credit.

Leading from behind. Got it.

Good grief. No, it's important that they do get the credit. If you cant understand why then I would suggest you stop participating in this discussion.

Leading from behind...not MY words but those of the WH.

[AUUSN 823]

Jordan is now leading the way, writing "For you, the enemies of Islam" on their bombs before dropping them right on ISIS heads.

Why is Jordan now more badass than America? What happened to us over the past 8 years?

Who trained them to fly their American F-16s? Who refueled them and jammed the air defenses on this most recent mission? Make no mistake, WE are leading the way. Jordan is getti g the credit.

Leading from behind. Got it.

Good grief. No, it's important that they do get the credit. If you cant understand why then I would suggest you stop participating in this discussion.

Leading from behind...not MY words but those of the WH.

Cool then I'm sure a link is forth coming?

[WarTim 3,456]

Jordan is now leading the way, writing "For you, the enemies of Islam" on their bombs before dropping them right on ISIS heads.

Why is Jordan now more badass than America? What happened to us over the past 8 years?

Who trained them to fly their American F-16s? Who refueled them and jammed the air defenses on this most recent mission? Make no mistake, WE are leading the way. Jordan is getti g the credit.

Leading from behind. Got it.

Good grief. No, it's important that they do get the credit. If you cant understand why then I would suggest you stop participating in this discussion.

Leading from behind...not MY words but those of the WH.

Cool then I'm sure a link is forth coming?

No. Just stating FACT. Can you refute my fact?.......

[AUUSN 823]

No. Just stating FACT. Can you refute my fact?.......

[AURaptor 1,121]

What polls?

http://www.huffingto..._n_3186144.html

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans

32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans

41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans

38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans

83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)

62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)

42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)

A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans:

(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)

About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.

http://www.worldpubl...I_Feb09_rpt.pdf

[homersapien 11,352]

No. Just stating FACT. Can you refute my fact?.......

Simple argument by assertion won't cut it on this forum. That shouldn't be news.

[homersapien 11,352]

What polls?

http://www.huffingto..._n_3186144.html

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans

32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans

41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans

38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans

83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)

62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)

42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)

A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans:

(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)

About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.

http://www.worldpubl...I_Feb09_rpt.pdf

Feb. 2009? So these are polls taken during Bush's campaigns in the Middle East.

Hardly surprising.

[alexava 6,973]

What polls?

http://www.huffingto..._n_3186144.html

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans

32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans

41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans

38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans

83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)

62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)

42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)

A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans:

(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)

About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.

http://www.worldpubl...I_Feb09_rpt.pdf

Feb. 2009? So these are polls taken during Bush's campaigns in the Middle East.

Hardly surprising.

back up about ten years and see what you learn.

[AURaptor 1,121]

Poll Reveals Frightening Popularity of Revolutionary Islamism

There’s a lot of interesting material in the Pew Foundation’s latest poll of the Middle East, a survey that focuses on attitudes toward Islamism and revolutionary Islamist groups. The analysis that accompanies the poll, however, is not very good, so here is mine.

For example, in evaluating attitudes toward Hamas and Hizballah, Pew says that they receive “mixed ratings from Muslim publics [while] opinions of al-Qaida and its leader, Usama bin Ladin, are consistently negative….” The implication is that the poll shows that people in these countries are not radical. Actually, the poll shows the precise opposite.

To begin with, let’s look at Jordan. There, 55 percent say they like Hizballah (against 43 percent negative) while 60 percent are favorable (compared to 34 percent negative) toward Hamas. Yet this is even more impressive than the figures indicate. Jordan is a staunchly Sunni country whose government opposes the ambitions of Iran and Syria, indeed it often identifies the threat as coming from Shia Muslims. Hizballah is a Shia group which also is an agent of Iran and Syria. For a majority to praise that organization—conscious of strong government disapproval—is phenomenal.

The figures for Hamas can be more easily explained by the Palestinian connection. Yet the difference between support for Hamas and for Hizballah in terms of public opinion isn’t that great. And liking Hamas also suggests that Jordan’s people–of whom a majority are Palestinian–prefer Hamas over Fatah and the Palestinian Authority—Hamas’s rival.

Why do people support Hamas and Hizballah? Obviously, one reason is that they fight Israel (a country with which Jordan is at peace, by the way) but sympathy for the revolutionary Islamist aspect of Hamas and Hizballah must be a huge factor here. Indeed, there is not necessarily any conflict between these two aspects. The Islamists are considered to be better fighters than the nationalists, while making war for the next generation is more attractive to those backing Hamas and Hizballah than is making peace (a strategy associated with the Palestinian Authority and Fatah). Finally, let’s not forget that both of these groups are very anti-Western and anti-American.

But now let’s look at al-Qaida. In Jordan, 34 percent are favorable toward that terrorist group while 62 percent are negative. That outcome, however, contrary to Pew’s spin on the numbers, is not at all encouraging. Remember that al-Qaida carried out the September 11 attacks. Moreover, it has conducted terrorist attacks in neighboring Iraq and, most important of all, it has murdered people within Jordan itself. The fact that one-third of Jordanians—whose country is generally considered the most pro-Western in the Arab world–like al-Qaida is chilling indeed. Then, too, this preference cannot be attributed to anti-Israel sentiment since the vast majority of al-Qaida’s operations are intended to overthrow Arab, Muslim governments.

So one-third of Jordan’s people favor the most extremist terrorist group—despite the fact that it has murdered Jordanians and is hated by their government—and roughly half or more like revolutionary Islamist organization that are clients of their own country’s nominally biggest threats. What does that say about the hopes for moderation and stability?

Turning to Egypt, “only” 30 percent like Hizballah (66 percent don’t like) 49 percent are favorable toward Hamas (48 percent are negative); and 20 percent smile (72 percent frown) at al-Qaida. This is more encouraging than the figures in Jordan. But remember that not only is Egypt solidly Sunni but the powerful Muslim Brotherhood, the leaders of Islamism in Egypt, don’t like Hizballah because it is a Shia group. The Egyptian government has accused Hizballah of trying to foment terrorism in Egypt. The Egyptian government also views Hamas as a threat.

Roughly speaking, one-fifth of Egyptians applaud the most extreme Islamist terrorist group, while around one-third back revolutionary Islamists abroad. This doesn’t tell us what proportion of Egyptians want an Islamist government at home, but it is an indicator.

And just remember that in two countries considered U.S. allies and receiving U.S. aid, one-third and one-fifth of the population, respectively, support the group that killed 3000 Americans on September 11. The Obama Administration’s response is that this is the reason it has to follow certain policies: to win over those who are most antagonistic and to keep others from becoming more radical. The problem is that these policies don’t achieve those goals. What determines these views are structural and communal issues within each country.

Here’s an example of that point. In Lebanon, attitudes divide along sectarian lines. While 94 percent of Shia Muslims support Hizballah (only 5 percent are negative), 84 percent of Sunnis are unfavorable on Hizballah (only 12 percent are positive) toward it. Christians are 87 percent negative on Hizballah (and only 10 percent positive). This shows why Hizballah cannot just take over Lebanon itself, but of course Lebanon is largely being taken over by Iranian-Syrian power plus their local collaborators, of which Hizballah is only one of the elements.

What are the Lebanese figures on al-Qaida? Only three percent positive and 94 percent negative! Why? Because the Christians and Sunnis don’t want that kind of regime, while the Shias, who tend to support Hizballah’s Islamism, knows that al-Qaida hates Shias. So Arabs and Muslims are quite capable of opposing terrorists if they think the terrorists are against their own interests. They support terrorists who they think are doing things they like. This shows the limit of Western ability to change these attitudes.

Finally, here’s a word on Turkey where public opinion is the opposite of that prevailing in Jordan. In Turkey, Only 5 percent like Hizballah (74 percent negative), just 9 percent like Hamas (67 percent unfavorable), and merely 4 percent are positive (74 percent are hostile) on al-Qaida. Yet the current Turkish Islamist regime is a big supporter of Hamas and Hizballah. Clearly, supporting revolutionary Islamist groups—either through Islamism or the fact they are fighting Israel—is simply not popular in Turkey. Hamas and Hizballah don’t even do much better than al-Qaida.

So, Turkey’s people are far more moderate than its government, while in Egypt and Jordan the people are more radical than theirs.

Let’s look at two other indicators of attitudes: Islamism versus “modernizers” and attitudes toward Islamic punishments. The first point of interest in terms of the great ideological battle is that large proportions of people in these countries deny that such a struggle even exists! Only 20 percent in Jordan, 31 percent in Egypt, 53 percent in Lebanon, and 52 percent in Turkey acknowledge that there is a struggle.

Why is this? One can’t definitively tell. I suspect that they may want to avoid taking sides since they live in countries where democracy doesn’t really prevail and authorities punish dissenters. Or perhaps they think that the Islamists are more capable of conducting modernization or that the current regime is sufficiently Islamic.

Nevertheless, those who said that such a struggle does exist (remember this is between only 20 percent in Jordan to 53 percent in Lebanon of those asked) took the following sides:

Jordan, 48-38 modernizers; Egypt, 59-27 Islamists; Lebanon, 84-15 modernists; Turkey, 74-11 modernists.

Other than the truly horrifying figures in Egypt—which one day might be cited to explain an Islamist revolution there—the numbers in Jordan are pretty scary as well. Almost 40 percent favor an Islamist regime and they know that doesn’t mean the current monarchy ruling Jordan.

How to explain the other two countries? In Lebanon, Hizballah is seen as a champion of the Shia community. It is supported for “ethnic” reasons more than because people want an Islamic Republic. Of course, Sunnis have to take into account that if Lebanon were to become an Islamic Republic it would be a Shia one. Lebanese like to think of themselves as modern, too.

As for Turkey, while the ruling AKP government has a hard core of supporters at roughly 30 percent, even most of these people don’t want an Islamist state, just a more Islamic-oriented one. That’s why the AKP can only go so far in its Islamization or risk having the people turn against the regime.

Finally there is the attitude toward Islamic punishments. Again, the outcome in Egypt and Jordan is very revealing. In Egypt, 82 percent want stoning for those who commit adultery; 77 percent would like to see whippings and hands cut off for robbery; and 84 percent favor the death penalty for any Muslim who changes his religion.

I would expect that these attitudes don’t differ much from public opinion in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan.

The figures for Jordan are roughly the same: 70 percent (stoning), 58 percent (whipping/amputation), 86 percent (death for converts).

Again, the numbers for Lebanon and Turkey are quite different:

Lebanon, 23 percent (stoning); 13 percent (whipping/amputation), 6 percent (death for converts)

Turkey, 16 percent (stoning); 13 percent (whipping/amputation), 5 percent (death for converts)

Yet Turkey and Lebanon are ruled by regimes which are in the Islamist camp, that is, they view themselves as close to the Iran-Syria-Hamas-Hizballah alliance.

It is also important to keep in mind that this poll demonstrates that Muslims are not innately radical or pro-terrorist. Their attitudes, while certainly conditioned by Islam, depends on the same kind of historical, social, and political factors that determine attitudes in other countries. The problem is the specific interpretation of Islam in a given place and time.

But what this analysis also shows is that a future Islamist revolution in Egypt and Jordan is quite possible. So overwhelming is the support for this movement that there is nothing the West can do except ensure the current governments remain in power. As for Lebanon, there is a strong basis for resisting incorporation into the Iran-Syria empire, and in Turkey—where there are free elections—the current regime might well be overthrown.

Remember that Egypt, Jordan, and other Arab governments—notably Saudi Arabia—are so opposed to Iran not only because they hate that country’s non-Arab, Shia, radical Islamist standpoint, but also since they fear its growing power will set off revolutions within their own countries.

The bottom line is that in all four of these countries the radical Islamist, side is winning either in terms of public opinion or actual control. And the West is basically asleep in recognizing that threat.

Read the Full Report “Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah” with the Poll Results in PDF-format here or read the PewResearchCenter summary of the Poll Results here.

[AUUSN 823]

In the name of Allah the most merciful

You will surely be tested in your possessions and in yourselves. And you will surely hear from those who were given the Scripture before you and from those who associate others with Allah much abuse. But if you are patient and fear Allah - indeed, that is of the matters [worthy] of determination.

Truthful is the great Allah

To our people of Mosul the Hadbaa'

To the dear people of Mosul the Hadbaa'

Iraq and all of you, the people of the great Mosul, have been plagued by a an ignorant and penitential tide and by gangs that gathered from all corners of the world to invade your city. They planted the seeds of destroying your sanctities, widening the schism between you, destroying your heritage, looting your resources, and starving your children with an outside support is now clear to every one.

The time has come, oh true Iraqis, that we all stand together on the land of your immaculate city one hand against this suspicious tide, we cut its roots, and make our land graveyard for those infidels.

God Bless, God is Our Best Ally

Iraqi Ministry of Defence

[icanthearyou 4,462]

What polls?

http://www.huffingto..._n_3186144.html

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans

32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans

41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans

38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans

83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)

62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)

42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)

A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans:

(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)

About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.

http://www.worldpubl...I_Feb09_rpt.pdf

From your polls:

"Large majorities denounce attacks on American civilians, whether in the U.S. or in a Muslim country, though there has been a softening in the numbers who hold this view strongly. Most reject the argument that such attacks are the only way to get the U.S. to listen to the Islamic people and a growing percentage see them as an ineffective method for achieving political ends. As a general principle large majorities reject the use of violent methods such as bombings and assassinations to achieve political goals."

Egypt 84% Disapprove

Indonesia 73% Disapprove

Pakistan 55% Disapprove

Palestine 59% Disapprove

Turkey 74% Disapprove

[AURaptor 1,121]

The polling #'s clearly show the myth that a tiny fraction of Muslims support violence, Sharia, etc.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

The polling #'s clearly show the myth that a tiny fraction of Muslims support violence, Sharia, etc.

No. Again, from the very poll you cited:

"Large majorities denounce attacks on American civilians, whether in the U.S. or in a Muslim country"

[japantiger 4,051]

What polls?

http://www.huffingto..._n_3186144.html

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans

32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans

41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans

38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans

83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)

62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)

42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)

A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans:

(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)

About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.

http://www.worldpubl...I_Feb09_rpt.pdf

Feb. 2009? So these are polls taken during Bush's campaigns in the Middle East.

Hardly surprising.

The 2013 Pew Study has similar results in Egypt, etc. ..and less than 30% view Obama as a positive influence on world affairs...only 24% in Jordan. Hhhmmm...I bet that number doesn't go up.

[AURaptor 1,121]

The polling #'s clearly show the myth that a tiny fraction of Muslims support violence, Sharia, etc.

No. Again, from the very poll you cited:

"Large majorities denounce attacks on American civilians, whether in the U.S. or in a Muslim country"

Yes. From the very polls I cited.

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans

32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans

41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans

38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans

83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)

62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)

42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)

These are not " tiny fractions " , 1, 3, 5 % of all Muslism. In some cases, the majority DO support violence against Americans.

Please, open your eyes and READ.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

The polling #'s clearly show the myth that a tiny fraction of Muslims support violence, Sharia, etc.

No. Again, from the very poll you cited:

"Large majorities denounce attacks on American civilians, whether in the U.S. or in a Muslim country"

Yes. From the very polls I cited.

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans

32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans

41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans

38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans

83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)

62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)

42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)

These are not " tiny fractions " , 1, 3, 5 % of all Muslism. In some cases, the majority DO support violence against Americans.

Please, open your eyes and READ.

Are you disputing your own citing? Open your eyes and your mind.

Those polled on whether they approve or disapprove of attacks on U.S. civilians in the U.S. or a Muslim country.

Egypt 84% Disapprove

Indonesia 73% Disapprove

Pakistan 55% Disapprove

Palestine 59% Disapprove

Turkey 74% Disapprove

[AURaptor 1,121]

Cant - there are many polls. some more accurate than others, but the MYTH that only a tiny % of Muslims support terror and violence is entirely debunked.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

Cant - there are many polls. some more accurate than others, but the MYTH that only a tiny % of Muslims support terror and violence is entirely debunked.

So you are refuting your own citing?

Again, from your own citing:

"Large majorities denounce attacks on American civilians, whether in the U.S. or in a Muslim country, though there has been a softening in the numbers who hold this view strongly. Most reject the argument that such attacks are the only way to get the U.S. to listen to the Islamic people and a growing percentage see them as an ineffective method for achieving political ends. As a general principle large majorities reject the use of violent methods such as bombings and assassinations to achieve political goals."

Egypt 84% Disapprove

Indonesia 73% Disapprove

Pakistan 55% Disapprove

Palestine 59% Disapprove

Turkey 74% Disapprove

What has been debunked, is your credibility.

[AURaptor 1,121]

I'm not refuting anything , other than the myth that a tiny fraction of Muslims don't support violence, sharia law, etc... you're twisting things completely out of context, for what ever reason, I can't fathom. Nor do I care.

And you can keep posting those #'s all you want, it won't change anything.

Islam is NOT the "religion of peace ".

Another way of looking at those numbers -

Egypt 16% approve

Indonesia 27% approve

Pakistan 45% approve

Palestine 41% approve

Turkey 26 % approve

[icanthearyou 4,462]

I'm not refuting anything , other than the myth that a tiny fraction of Muslims don't support violence, sharia law, etc... you're twisting things completely out of context, for what ever reason, I can't fathom. Nor do I care.

And you can keep posting those #'s all you want, it won't change anything.

Islam is NOT the "religion of peace ".

Sorry but, facts are a little more compelling than your slanted opinions. I appreciate the facts you have shared. They clearly show your opinion is BS.

"Large majorities denounce attacks on American civilians, whether in the U.S. or in a Muslim country"

[AUUSN 823]

The Islamic State says that an American hostage held by the group was killed in a Jordanian airstrike. http://foreignpolicy...nian_airstrike/

[AURaptor 1,121]

I'm not refuting anything , other than the myth that a tiny fraction of Muslims don't support violence, sharia law, etc... you're twisting things completely out of context, for what ever reason, I can't fathom. Nor do I care.

And you can keep posting those #'s all you want, it won't change anything.

Islam is NOT the "religion of peace ".

Sorry but, facts are a little more compelling than your slanted opinions. I appreciate the facts you have shared. They clearly show your opinion is BS.

"Large majorities denounce attacks on American civilians, whether in the U.S. or in a Muslim country"

Sorry, but you're simply flat dead wrong.

And it's not MY opinion, pin head.

It's the FACTS that you're at odds with. Sucks to be you, I suppose.