Starting DBs for Next Year?

[Maverick.AU 13,279]

Don't see why everyone pencils Moncrief in as a starter but moves ford out. They could all get better for sure but I didn't see speed or the head hunter mentality I expected from Moncrief. Ford is willing to throw it all out there and he is a good bit smaller than Moncrief. Ford had a much better season than people realize, but like I said he can definitely improve a good bit as can the entire D

I agree. Lots of praise on here for Moncrief even though he didn't live up to expectations. It seemed like Ford played to the expectations that were set for DM.

He probably would have excelled in a more traditional defense which he has now. Remember he was the #1 JUCO safety when he came here.

I know which is why I had really high hopes when we signed him, I also saw him some in HS too. He didn't look to have the type of speed I had thought he would have, and when he was in I didn't see him put a lick on guys like Ford did. I just don't see penciling him in as a starter because of what he was before he came here, when his on the field production hasn't looked that great yet, and taking out a guy like Ford who played decent last year. If he hadn't stepped on the field yet that would be one thing but he has.

[metafour 4,966]

Ford was better in coverage and run support. The defensive system didn't have anything to do with that.

Yup. Its not like the Safeties in a 4-2-5 have drastically different responsibilities; thus saying that he would have "excelled" in a more traditional defense is pretty silly. Moncrief was simply a bit overrated and was outplayed by Ford.

[gr82b4au 5,568]

Ford and T Matthews should start at safety. I think they will be very good. This may be the best we have had in some time at safety.

At corner - Jones at on side.

Not sure on the other side - Holsey has bounced all over the place. Is he truly healthy? If not, what about a youngster like Ruffin, Roberts, or Bessent?

[auburnphan 6,050]

It is going to be a great competition for the secondary, Matthews and Jones I think could be considered locks, the rest is how well they adapt to the new scheme, regardless I know we have the talent to be much better.

[1TexasTiger 55]

Ford was better in coverage and run support. The defensive system didn't have anything to do with that.

Yup. Its not like the Safeties in a 4-2-5 have drastically different responsibilities; thus saying that he would have "excelled" in a more traditional defense is pretty silly. Moncrief was simply a bit overrated and was outplayed by Ford.

The safeties in our 4-2-5 did have drastically different responsibilities vs what they will be playing. I gave a reason why Moncrief didn't produce. It's weird to me that we sign guys and they just forget how to cover, how to tackle, how to play assignments or was it they where being taught something other than what they excelled at doing? I don't have a preference who starts because I cheer for Auburn. But we really don't know much about how our DB's will play in the new scheme.

[Tiger 8,818]

Ford was better in coverage and run support. The defensive system didn't have anything to do with that.

Yup. Its not like the Safeties in a 4-2-5 have drastically different responsibilities; thus saying that he would have "excelled" in a more traditional defense is pretty silly. Moncrief was simply a bit overrated and was outplayed by Ford.

The safeties in our 4-2-5 did have drastically different responsibilities vs what they will be playing. I gave a reason why Moncrief didn't produce. It's weird to me that we sign guys and they just forget how to cover, how to tackle, how to play assignments or was it they where being taught something other than what they excelled at doing? I don't have a preference who starts because I cheer for Auburn. But we really don't know much about how our DB's will play in the new scheme.

Lol at this bolded part. I've been saying this since Chizik took over it feels like.

[AuburnNTexas 7,133]

This will be unpopular, but most of the blown Coverages were set up by RT. He tried to be aggressive rather than disciplined. He placed stress on others by being out of position. A lot of the time it looked like others were blown away due to RT not playing his assignment.

Bird I have read your posts for years and value you knowledge and input. My question is if RT was at fault for so much blown coverage why not put in another player even if less talented if that Player knew his assignments and stuck to them. That to me points to the coaches if a player doesn't learn from his mistakes he should be replaced.

[doc4aday 1,887]

I think our DBs will be light years better than last season. The entire defense will be vastly better in 2015 than what we have had since Gus arrived. I feel certain that our defense will be in the top 5 in the SEC for 2015. We have the talent to do this, and now have to coaching staff to make it happen.

[metafour 4,966]

The safeties in our 4-2-5 did have drastically different responsibilities vs what they will be playing.

The Safeties in a 4-2-5 have to play a pivotal role in defending against the run. If anything; a tweener like Moncrief (6'2 ~220) should have been even more successful playing in a system like Ellis Johnson's that asks him to play a lot of run support, since his size is his biggest asset. Even in JUCO he was playing closer to the LOS. There is absolutely nothing "magical" in Muschamp's system that will all of a sudden allow Moncrief to "excel" as opposed to looking completely average in Johnson's defense.

[AU64 10,122]

The safeties in our 4-2-5 did have drastically different responsibilities vs what they will be playing.

The Safeties in a 4-2-5 have to play a pivotal role in defending against the run. If anything; a tweener like Moncrief (6'2 ~220) should have been even more successful playing in a system like Ellis Johnson's that asks him to play a lot of run support, since his size is his biggest asset. Even in JUCO he was playing closer to the LOS. There is absolutely nothing "magical" in Muschamp's system that will all of a sudden allow Moncrief to "excel" as opposed to looking completely average in Johnson's defense.

Guess we will see what impact Muschamp has when a decision is made about Kerryon Johnson. He is one of the top DBs in the nation, maybe the best in the state, played safety in the HS all star game....and looks like we will have him on the offensive side along with 8 other RBs when practice starts.

[milehighfan 1,240]

I too am glad Mincy is not coming back. In 2013 he allowed the 99 yard bomb against the turds and he was anything but a lock-down corner.down at any point last season.

[1TexasTiger 55]

The safeties in our 4-2-5 did have drastically different responsibilities vs what they will be playing.

The Safeties in a 4-2-5 have to play a pivotal role in defending against the run. If anything; a tweener like Moncrief (6'2 ~220) should have been even more successful playing in a system like Ellis Johnson's that asks him to play a lot of run support, since his size is his biggest asset. Even in JUCO he was playing closer to the LOS. There is absolutely nothing "magical" in Muschamp's system that will all of a sudden allow Moncrief to "excel" as opposed to looking completely average in Johnson's defense.

Yes they do. But the Boundary Safety and the Star set the edge of the defense in EJ's 4-2-5. There is the big difference in run support and setting the edge. That tweak changed those players keys which now changes how they react with the ball in play. We got beat deep often because our safeties were reading run on a pass play. This left corners in 1 on 1 man situations with a Field safety hauling booty trying to get over top of the receiver. Moncrief at Prattville and in JUCO was a hell of a safety. He has NFL size (think Kam Chancellor) for a safety. But size alone makes him no less a tweener than saying Javier Mitchell should be able to play safety or corner because he is the size of one. You have practiced skills and fundamentals that have to be built upon. EJ's defense asked many players to rebuild the foundation which eroded their skill level.

I promise you meta those guy don't want magic. They want simple.

[cooltigger21 0]

What I want to see more than anything else is no free release from the LOS for opposition receivers.

[metafour 4,966]

The safeties in our 4-2-5 did have drastically different responsibilities vs what they will be playing.

The Safeties in a 4-2-5 have to play a pivotal role in defending against the run. If anything; a tweener like Moncrief (6'2 ~220) should have been even more successful playing in a system like Ellis Johnson's that asks him to play a lot of run support, since his size is his biggest asset. Even in JUCO he was playing closer to the LOS. There is absolutely nothing "magical" in Muschamp's system that will all of a sudden allow Moncrief to "excel" as opposed to looking completely average in Johnson's defense.

Yes they do. But the Boundary Safety and the Star set the edge of the defense in EJ's 4-2-5. There is the big difference in run support and setting the edge. That tweak changed those players keys which now changes how they react with the ball in play. We got beat deep often because our safeties were reading run on a pass play. This left corners in 1 on 1 man situations with a Field safety hauling booty trying to get over top of the receiver. Moncrief at Prattville and in JUCO was a hell of a safety. He has NFL size (think Kam Chancellor) for a safety. But size alone makes him no less a tweener than saying Javier Mitchell should be able to play safety or corner because he is the size of one. You have practiced skills and fundamentals that have to be built upon. EJ's defense asked many players to rebuild the foundation which eroded their skill level.

I promise you meta those guy don't want magic. They want simple.

Believe whatever you want to believe; Moncrief's struggles weren't because of some drastically different defensive scheme. What are you trying to suggest; that he's only a good player in ONE defensive system? Why did we sign him to play in Ellis' defense then? The guy isn't Kam Chancellor; there is a reason why there is only ONE Chancellor in the NFL.

He simply didn't turn out to be as good as his JUCO ranking, and that shouldn't be that surprising as it happens all the time. Moncrief wasn't a cant-miss prospect out of HS either, thus it stands even more reason to believe that his sudden "rise" in JUCO was more of a mirage than him suddenly turning into an "elite player."

[bigbird 60,441]

This will be unpopular, but most of the blown Coverages were set up by RT. He tried to be aggressive rather than disciplined. He placed stress on others by being out of position. A lot of the time it looked like others were blown away due to RT not playing his assignment.

Bird I have read your posts for years and value you knowledge and input. My question is if RT was at fault for so much blown coverage why not put in another player even if less talented if that Player knew his assignments and stuck to them. That to me points to the coaches if a player doesn't learn from his mistakes he should be replaced.

I agree. In not sure why. To me , there were a few younger players, specifically Ruffin, that seemed to deserve more put.

[mcgufcm 4,096]

Ruffin looked good from an assignment perspective but I thought he was a little overmatched at times, in terms of physicality. We probably would've been better off giving him more run (or no worse off), but teams would've pounded the ball his direction.

[cole256 17,042]

Well it's not like the teams that pounded in any direction were stopped anyway..

[Randman5000 4,226]

Ford and T Matthews should start at safety. I think they will be very good. This may be the best we have had in some time at safety.

At corner - Jones at on side.

Not sure on the other side - Holsey has bounced all over the place. Is he truly healthy? If not, what about a youngster like Ruffin, Roberts, or Bessent?

Well it's not going to be Bessett. He's out of Auburn

[mcgufcm 4,096]

cole, that's fair, but having a 185 pound LB/S hybrid wasn't going to help in an area that was already a weakness.

I never understood the move anyway. He's a CB. We didn't have the quality or the depth to sign three CBs, redshirt one, move one to FS, and move the other to Star. It was a ridiculous use of talent in the first place. I'm encouraged to hear that Muschamp intends to try Ruffin and Roberts at CB in the spring. We've got options at Safety. Matthews, Ford, Moncrief, and Holsey have all started games at Safety at the collegiate level, and that doesn't include Markell Boston (redshirted last year) or TJ Davis (who has floated between CB and Safety but has gotten some PT).

I'd rather see Ruffin, Roberts (and TJ Davis actually) try their hand at CB, where we're thinner with less experience, as a first option. That's what they were recruited for. This spring is going to be a big one for Kam Melton and Joe Turner as well. This is their chance to move up the ladder, if that's ever going to happen.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

Everybody in the secondary was abused last year and Ford didn't play any worse than anybody else

x2

[1TexasTiger 55]

The safeties in our 4-2-5 did have drastically different responsibilities vs what they will be playing.

The Safeties in a 4-2-5 have to play a pivotal role in defending against the run. If anything; a tweener like Moncrief (6'2 ~220) should have been even more successful playing in a system like Ellis Johnson's that asks him to play a lot of run support, since his size is his biggest asset. Even in JUCO he was playing closer to the LOS. There is absolutely nothing "magical" in Muschamp's system that will all of a sudden allow Moncrief to "excel" as opposed to looking completely average in Johnson's defense.

Yes they do. But the Boundary Safety and the Star set the edge of the defense in EJ's 4-2-5. There is the big difference in run support and setting the edge. That tweak changed those players keys which now changes how they react with the ball in play. We got beat deep often because our safeties were reading run on a pass play. This left corners in 1 on 1 man situations with a Field safety hauling booty trying to get over top of the receiver. Moncrief at Prattville and in JUCO was a hell of a safety. He has NFL size (think Kam Chancellor) for a safety. But size alone makes him no less a tweener than saying Javier Mitchell should be able to play safety or corner because he is the size of one. You have practiced skills and fundamentals that have to be built upon. EJ's defense asked many players to rebuild the foundation which eroded their skill level.

I promise you meta those guy don't want magic. They want simple.

Believe whatever you want to believe; Moncrief's struggles weren't because of some drastically different defensive scheme. What are you trying to suggest; that he's only a good player in ONE defensive system? Why did we sign him to play in Ellis' defense then? The guy isn't Kam Chancellor; there is a reason why there is only ONE Chancellor in the NFL.

He simply didn't turn out to be as good as his JUCO ranking, and that shouldn't be that surprising as it happens all the time. Moncrief wasn't a cant-miss prospect out of HS either, thus it stands even more reason to believe that his sudden "rise" in JUCO was more of a mirage than him suddenly turning into an "elite player."

Not really looking to argue because there has been enough phallus measuring on this board this year to last a lifetime. Let me clarify exactly what I'm saying. My goal here is not to persuade you any one way or the other, but yet offer my opinion as an alternative to him being overrated.

1) "What are you trying to suggest; that he's only a good player in ONE defensive system?" No! What I'm trying to suggest is that he may be more productive in a more traditional defensive system.

2) "Why did we sign him to play in Ellis' defense then?" Derrick Moncrief enrolled 1/8/2014. At that time the Safeties in this 5 DB set consisted of: Demetruce McNeal (SR later left team), Ryan Smith (SR), Ryan White (SR), Jermaine Whitehead (Jr), Robensen Therezie, (JR) as players with experience. We needed depth, size, and experience. Moncrief provided all of that could have been the reasons why he was targeted. Schematically he may not have been a match which is why enrolling early was a plus

3) "He simply didn't turn out to be as good as his JUCO ranking." Imagine if that was the thought about Nick Fairley. Basically, that is yet to be determined

4) "The guy isn't Kam Chancellor" Well duh!! and I never said he was. Here is what I actually said "He has NFL size (think Kam Chancellor) for a safety. But size alone makes him no less a tweener than saying Javier Mitchell should be able to play safety or corner because he is the size of one." I compared the size. I did not equate them to one another. However you stated because of his size he should have excelled in EJ's system. I disagreed and stated there are more fundamentals that go into his assignments that need more time to develop.

5) Don't be so quick to write him off because the interim DC in the bowl game played Moncrief at the star more than anyone else.

Again, all I'm saying is we don't quite know what we have in the way of DBs because the 2 Man Under coverage we will run with Muschamp will be totally different than the Man 1 off coverage we ran with Johnson. Both man coverages but completely different.