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When ISIS Ran the American South


AUUSN

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The point to take away is that our violent past is in the past. Radical Islam is in the present. This discussion distracts from the problem at hand.

I disagree. I think it adds some understanding. It's in our past but not the distant past. It gives us some insight into how a culture and indeed a religion can be hijacked for such purposes.

Religion being the key word.
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Were the lynchings in the U.S South done in the name of Christianity?

"In the name of?" I don't know. I know that a whole lot of entanglement with Christianity was fomented by those who did these things. But to me that's a side issue. The point wasn't to say "these things are alike in every single way minus the labels of the groups." The point was, "any country, any group of people in any era is capable of these sorts of things." And maybe, in digging in a bit to how we got to such a place as a people, we can gain a little bit of understanding as to what's going on in the heads of ISIS types.

That last sentence contains the proper starting point for devising any effective means of eradicating ISIS (or any ideological enemy). You can bomb them until you run out of ordnance. You can deploy ground forces to hunt and eliminate them until you run out of resources. Their casualties will be followed by successors. When Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is killed, he will be replaced by someone similar or worse. If not, ISIS will splinter until it is galvanized again as a group with a new acronym. The other regional governments are the only ones that have a chance at driving out such madness, and allowing the people and religion to put it behind them. I am hoping that this regional coalition is the first step down that path.

I agree in part. I don't think understanding their "starting point" is a valid framework for anything. Evil is evil...no matter what century or place. What makes otherwise normal people either stand by or commit heinous acts is a complete lack of empathy for the oppressed. ISIS is no different. I 100% agree that ultimately, the locals will be required to stamp this out in the long term. But, just like with most of the "ism's" of the last century; the locals didn't eradicate it on their own...they had to have help. For better or worse (just like with the "isms") we are in a unique position to help; and if we want it to happen sooner vs later; much later; we need to provide support.

Evil is indeed evil. That ISIS ultimately represents evil is not in dispute. However, merely identifying them as evil is not solid cornerstone for eradicating it. Were it a handful of individuals that could be targeted for capture or elimination, that would suffice. ISIS is just the latest evolution of the same ideology as Al-Qaeda, willing to do the same things on a larger and more regional scale. People that join are apparently completely unconcerned / unafraid of the extreme potential for death or incarceration.

Why does anyone join these organizations? What is their appeal? How can that appeal be eliminated? The answers to those questions contain the road to an actual solution on a macro and micro scale, but it has at least been demonstrated that military force is not the ultimate answer. ISIS certainly requires military intervention, which they are getting. However, military intervention will always be the equivalent of putting out a brush fire, but leaving smoldering embers next to a gas can. The regional powers (which cannot be effectively employed as infidels for propaganda purposes), need to take a more active role in their regional stability, growth, and future. It is only now that I feel some of them might be coming to terms with that. I hope it galvanizes them to continue working long-term.

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It will be a day long after my death before we finally get past all the anti-anti-anti. This article is well written and well placed, but the content within the article is focused on one region of a country that had widespread movements against another race while using religion as a part of its propaganda. Being from the south....I'm tired of it.

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Stry....good post. Do you think there is any strategy to pull it off?

With the US as the primary and most visible motivator? No, not at all.

I have said elsewhere that the best thing that could happen, for us and the region, is the coalition of Jordan, Bahrain, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE striking ISIS. ISIS cannot withstand that indefinitely, and most of their gains were in places they encountered little resistance. When the sorties are done, those same countries need to look at how they can work together going forward to prevent the inevitable repeat of ISIS. Will they? I have no idea, I have only hope. If ISIS has not shown them the necessity of that, I do not know what will. As terrible as they are, ISIS may very well end up being what history records as the catalyst for real growth and progress in the region.

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I agree and likewise hope you are right. My worry is what does the U.S. do if the ME coalition doesn't happen.

Likely rinse and repeat the last 15 years of Middle East activity. Ultimately, if the US is ever going to do something truly productive in the region, we cannot go it alone. We also cannot be at the forefront of it.

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Think we would respond differently to another 9/11?

I would hope that our response to another incident would be different by default, as in varying based on the difference of who is responsible, where they are, and whether or not the government of that country is cooperating.

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I agree and likewise hope you are right. My worry is what does the U.S. do if the ME coalition doesn't happen.

I hope the US has the nuts to say, "Sorry. You made your bed. Now lie in it." As ruthless as that is, you can't help people who don't want to help themselves. As long as we keep bailing countries out of their own mess that they created, we'll likely see little progress in the Middle East.

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Think we would respond differently to another 9/11?

I don't think terrorists are really that interested in doing something to the magnitude of 9/11 again. Sure, it would kill thousands of Americans (which they'd love to do), but I think they would rather kill us with "death by a thousand cuts". Last time they did 9/11 we killed a lot of their guys. It didn't really have as much of a lasting effect as they would've liked.

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caleb...I disagree. I think our whole way of life has changed since 9/11. I think the impact on us far exceeded their wildest expectations. JMHO.

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caleb...I disagree. I think our whole way of life has changed since 9/11. I think the impact on us far exceeded their wildest expectations. JMHO.

I would ask if you really consider that a positive?

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Were the lynchings in the U.S South done in the name of Christianity?

"In the name of?" I don't know. I know that a whole lot of entanglement with Christianity was fomented by those who did these things. But to me that's a side issue. The point wasn't to say "these things are alike in every single way minus the labels of the groups." The point was, "any country, any group of people in any era is capable of these sorts of things." And maybe, in digging in a bit to how we got to such a place as a people, we can gain a little bit of understanding as to what's going on in the heads of ISIS types.

That last sentence contains the proper starting point for devising any effective means of eradicating ISIS (or any ideological enemy). You can bomb them until you run out of ordnance. You can deploy ground forces to hunt and eliminate them until you run out of resources. Their casualties will be followed by successors. When Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is killed, he will be replaced by someone similar or worse. If not, ISIS will splinter until it is galvanized again as a group with a new acronym. The other regional governments are the only ones that have a chance at driving out such madness, and allowing the people and religion to put it behind them. I am hoping that this regional coalition is the first step down that path.

Agree 100%.

This is the only way this ends, and the only way it should end.

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caleb...I disagree. I think our whole way of life has changed since 9/11. I think the impact on us far exceeded their wildest expectations. JMHO.

Instead of just vehemently disagreeing with you, I'd like to hear why it is you think that.

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caleb...I disagree. I think our whole way of life has changed since 9/11. I think the impact on us far exceeded their wildest expectations. JMHO.

Instead of just vehemently disagreeing with you, I'd like to hear why it is you think that.

Do you mind me asking how old you were on 9/11/2001?

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caleb....for starters take a flight somewhere now and compare things to what they were pre 9/11 in 2001. You probably wouldn't know since you were only 14 and didn't fly often. I actually quit my job I had at the time because I had to fly from Huntsville to L.A. a lot and the hassle became too much.

I will let some others pipe up with their opinions.

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caleb....for starters take a flight somewhere now and compare things to what they were pre 9/11 in 2001. You probably wouldn't know since you were only 14 and didn't fly often. I actually quit my job I had at the time because I had to fly from Huntsville to L.A. a lot and the hassle became too much.

I will let some others pipe up with their opinions.

The biggest change was mindset, which has been huge. Most folks day-to-day activities likely didn't change unless you travel often as Proud mentioned . Flying is a significantly different experience. Also, the surveillance state greatly intensified and expectations of privacy have diminished.

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My mother was a travel agent, and my father was big on it as well so we travelled pretty extensively. Yes, our security measures increased significantly, and have remained extensive since 9/11. However, other than travelling other places, as a country we've grown complacent IMO. The sense of nationalism, pride, and patriotism we felt after 9/11 has long since passed and Americans no longer seem to have the zeal for their country they did 13 years ago. After 9/11, people would've been fighting down hijackers with their kids. There are many Americans who care deeply about their country and would sacrifice blood and limb to protect it, but IMO most are not that passionate anymore.

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