Remington defense to begin selling to the public

[cooltigger21 0]

Remington has announced they are going to start selling some of their special operations grade rifles to the public. I'd love to have some of these. http://bearingarms.c...selling-public/

[Strychnine 1,802]

When the cheapest one is a glorified AR at over $2250, I do not expect them to sell very well. Daniel Defense rifles are less than $2000. That Remington R4E is priced with LMT rifles. Their piston offering is just ridiculous at $3890. I simply fail to see any value there when you can buy a Sig 556 or Adams Arms piston rifles for less than $2000, or LWRC rifles for less than $3000. The $2000 or even $1000 saved buys a lot of ammo. Remington is entering the boutique AR market too late I think.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

I think a good handgun and a shotgun are sufficient for me to defend my home.

[Mikey 16,576]

I think a good handgun and a shotgun are sufficient for me to defend my home.

Agreed. To each his own but a scattergun and handgun are all one needs for home defense. Now, if you wanna' fire off a couple hundred rifle rounds at tin cans on a Saturday, that's fine but "defense" it ain't.

[Strychnine 1,802]

I think a good handgun and a shotgun are sufficient for me to defend my home.

People do not buy boutique AR's with a primary motive of home or personal defense. People that compete in or enjoy shooting buy them. Everything I just mentioned is extremely overpriced and impractical for the person that wants a home defense weapon sitting under the bed, or in the corner, or in the safe, where they shoot it maybe twice yearly.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

I think a good handgun and a shotgun are sufficient for me to defend my home.

People do not buy boutique AR's with a primary motive of home or personal defense. People that compete in or enjoy shooting buy them. Everything I just mentioned is extremely overpriced and impractical for the person that wants a home defense weapon sitting under the bed, or in the corner, or in the safe, where they shoot it maybe twice yearly.

I was just going off of the name "Remington Defense." What the hell are you defending with that kind of rifle?

[cooltigger21 0]

I think a good handgun and a shotgun are sufficient for me to defend my home.

Well yeah for normal defense you're correct. I just think they're nice items and I'd like to have one.

[Strychnine 1,802]

I think a good handgun and a shotgun are sufficient for me to defend my home.

People do not buy boutique AR's with a primary motive of home or personal defense. People that compete in or enjoy shooting buy them. Everything I just mentioned is extremely overpriced and impractical for the person that wants a home defense weapon sitting under the bed, or in the corner, or in the safe, where they shoot it maybe twice yearly.

I was just going off of the name "Remington Defense." What the hell are you defending with that kind of rifle?

"Remington Defense" is the division of Remington that designs and builds weapons for military applications. Since everything they generally built was select-fire, and therefore illegal to sell to the American public, the only previously available weapon was the semi-automatic ACR made by Bushmaster (owned by same parent company). The name has more to do with their primary customer being the US Department of Defense than it does the concept of home defense.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

I can think of a whole lot of other cool things I could get with $2200 to $4000. But that's just me.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

I think a good handgun and a shotgun are sufficient for me to defend my home.

People do not buy boutique AR's with a primary motive of home or personal defense. People that compete in or enjoy shooting buy them. Everything I just mentioned is extremely overpriced and impractical for the person that wants a home defense weapon sitting under the bed, or in the corner, or in the safe, where they shoot it maybe twice yearly.

I was just going off of the name "Remington Defense." What the hell are you defending with that kind of rifle?

"Remington Defense" is the division of Remington that designs and builds weapons for military applications. Since everything they generally built was select-fire, and therefore illegal to sell to the American public, the only previously available weapon was the semi-automatic ACR made by Bushmaster (owned by same parent company). The name has more to do with their primary customer being the US Department of Defense than it does the concept of home defense.

Ah. That thought occurred to me after I posted, but I just decided to let it stay up and see what you guys said.

[Strychnine 1,802]

I can think of a whole lot of other cool things I could get with $2200 to $4000. But that's just me.

Indeed, and that is why most of the civilian AR market is not priced that high. You can buy a DPMS AR, or build your own, for under $1000. The average person that takes a trip or two to the range annually (may or may not be you) would not necessarily shoot a $2000-3000 boutique rifle noticeably better.

[homersapien 11,366]

I think a good handgun and a shotgun are sufficient for me to defend my home.

Agreed. To each his own but a scattergun and handgun are all one needs for home defense. Now, if you wanna' fire off a couple hundred rifle rounds at tin cans on a Saturday, that's fine but "defense" it ain't.

Agreed. In fact, using a rifle for defense puts your own family - and possibly your neighbors - at more risk.

[homersapien 11,366]

I think a good handgun and a shotgun are sufficient for me to defend my home.

People do not buy boutique AR's with a primary motive of home or personal defense. People that compete in or enjoy shooting buy them. Everything I just mentioned is extremely overpriced and impractical for the person that wants a home defense weapon sitting under the bed, or in the corner, or in the safe, where they shoot it maybe twice yearly.

Probably not "boutique" ARs, but I'd bet a lot of people do buy them for defense.

[homersapien 11,366]

I think a good handgun and a shotgun are sufficient for me to defend my home.

People do not buy boutique AR's with a primary motive of home or personal defense. People that compete in or enjoy shooting buy them. Everything I just mentioned is extremely overpriced and impractical for the person that wants a home defense weapon sitting under the bed, or in the corner, or in the safe, where they shoot it maybe twice yearly.

I was just going off of the name "Remington Defense." What the hell are you defending with that kind of rifle?

"Remington Defense" is the division of Remington that designs and builds weapons for military applications. Since everything they generally built was select-fire, and therefore illegal to sell to the American public, the only previously available weapon was the semi-automatic ACR made by Bushmaster (owned by same parent company). The name has more to do with their primary customer being the US Department of Defense than it does the concept of home defense.

So what is does "special operations grade" mean? Upgraded metallurgy? Closer tolerances?

[Strychnine 1,802]

I think a good handgun and a shotgun are sufficient for me to defend my home.

People do not buy boutique AR's with a primary motive of home or personal defense. People that compete in or enjoy shooting buy them. Everything I just mentioned is extremely overpriced and impractical for the person that wants a home defense weapon sitting under the bed, or in the corner, or in the safe, where they shoot it maybe twice yearly.

I was just going off of the name "Remington Defense." What the hell are you defending with that kind of rifle?

"Remington Defense" is the division of Remington that designs and builds weapons for military applications. Since everything they generally built was select-fire, and therefore illegal to sell to the American public, the only previously available weapon was the semi-automatic ACR made by Bushmaster (owned by same parent company). The name has more to do with their primary customer being the US Department of Defense than it does the concept of home defense.

So what is does "special operations grade" mean? Upgraded metallurgy? Closer tolerances?

In a nutshell, marketing. Boutique AR's are known for testing, better components, sometimes better metallurgy, and ultimately better accuracy. However, boutique would not be at the top of a special operations group's shopping list. The first thing they are looking for is reliability. Can it be counted on to always go bang? After that is achieved, their concern shifts to what happens downrange after it goes bang. The shooter is almost always the weakest link in that chain, and that is what special operations groups focus their efforts on.

Anything "special operations grade" (or any advertising line similar) is popular and desired by the mall ninja crowd.

[homersapien 11,366]

I think a good handgun and a shotgun are sufficient for me to defend my home.

People do not buy boutique AR's with a primary motive of home or personal defense. People that compete in or enjoy shooting buy them. Everything I just mentioned is extremely overpriced and impractical for the person that wants a home defense weapon sitting under the bed, or in the corner, or in the safe, where they shoot it maybe twice yearly.

I was just going off of the name "Remington Defense." What the hell are you defending with that kind of rifle?

"Remington Defense" is the division of Remington that designs and builds weapons for military applications. Since everything they generally built was select-fire, and therefore illegal to sell to the American public, the only previously available weapon was the semi-automatic ACR made by Bushmaster (owned by same parent company). The name has more to do with their primary customer being the US Department of Defense than it does the concept of home defense.

So what is does "special operations grade" mean? Upgraded metallurgy? Closer tolerances?

In a nutshell, marketing. Boutique AR's are known for testing, better components, sometimes better metallurgy, and ultimately better accuracy. However, boutique would not be at the top of a special operations group's shopping list. The first thing they are looking for is reliability. Can it be counted on to always go bang? After that is achieved, their concern shifts to what happens downrange after it goes bang. The shooter is almost always the weakest link in that chain, and that is what special operations groups focus their efforts on.

Anything "special operations grade" (or any advertising line similar) is popular and desired by the mall ninja crowd.

Roger.

[DKW 86 7,419]

I think a good handgun and a shotgun are sufficient for me to defend my home.

People do not buy boutique AR's with a primary motive of home or personal defense. People that compete in or enjoy shooting buy them. Everything I just mentioned is extremely overpriced and impractical for the person that wants a home defense weapon sitting under the bed, or in the corner, or in the safe, where they shoot it maybe twice yearly.

I was just going off of the name "Remington Defense." What the hell are you defending with that kind of rifle?

"Remington Defense" is the division of Remington that designs and builds weapons for military applications. Since everything they generally built was select-fire, and therefore illegal to sell to the American public, the only previously available weapon was the semi-automatic ACR made by Bushmaster (owned by same parent company). The name has more to do with their primary customer being the US Department of Defense than it does the concept of home defense.

So what is does "special operations grade" mean? Upgraded metallurgy? Closer tolerances?

In a nutshell, marketing. Boutique AR's are known for testing, better components, sometimes better metallurgy, and ultimately better accuracy. However, boutique would not be at the top of a special operations group's shopping list. The first thing they are looking for is reliability. Can it be counted on to always go bang? After that is achieved, their concern shifts to what happens downrange after it goes bang. The shooter is almost always the weakest link in that chain, and that is what special operations groups focus their efforts on.

Anything "special operations grade" (or any advertising line similar) is popular and desired by the mall ninja crowd.

Roger.

There is a market out there for this kind of thing, I am not that market myself.

The best shooters i know in my life have taken modest to good weapons and have trained with them to make themselves very proficient.

I can honestly say that some of the ex-military guys i know, and i know several in a boutique shooting club here in Decatur, that would spend the jack for these kinds of weapons and will still not shoot any better than the average joe. To them, it is the snob factor of owning THAT piece. One of my dearest friends is a IE that is 125 soaking wet and he just bought a scoped/lasered 9mm handgun that he cant hit the broadside of a barn with. Hell, he can barely support the scope/laser in one hand.

So, while i totally support folks being able to buy these things, if i was in a firefight, i want the old man or the young kid with a decent weapon and serious range time over the boutiquer and his custom made gun case and weapon that has rarely been fired.

I still laugh everytime i hear someone talk about an "assault weapon." Most of what passes for AWs these days are squirrel rifles with some add-on deco-bling that dont do a thing. The basic mechanism is just that, a basic mechanism.

[autigeremt 6,598]

Outside of my Ruger SR40 and my set of Ruger Blackhawks everything I own is a single shot. I don't "need" an AR platform but I'm glad I have that option.

[alexava 6,973]

i was for banning assault weapons until i started watching "The Walking Dead". Now i think it should be mandatory to have a Adam Lanza type setup in your home.

[Strychnine 1,802]

There is a market out there for this kind of thing, I am not that market myself.

The best shooters i know in my life have taken modest to good weapons and have trained with them to make themselves very proficient.

I can honestly say that some of the ex-military guys i know, and i know several in a boutique shooting club here in Decatur, that would spend the jack for these kinds of weapons and will still not shoot any better than the average joe. To them, it is the snob factor of owning THAT piece. One of my dearest friends is a IE that is 125 soaking wet and he just bought a scoped/lasered 9mm handgun that he cant hit the broadside of a barn with. Hell, he can barely support the scope/laser in one hand.

Shooting is always about practice. If you see 50 people shoot on an average range day, maybe 5 of them have invested the time and money (mostly ammo) in regular practice. The other 45 are people that could not shoot sub-MOA if you gave them a sniper rifle on a tripod with match ammo.

Drop $700-800 on a DPMS flat-top AR, top it off with a red dot or holo with magnifier (or a decent 4x). Take the $1500-2000 that you did not spend on a boutique AR and kitting it out, and spend it on ammo and range time instead. You will outshoot the guys at the range with boutique AR's that only get out once or twice a year. You will also be able to take their rifle and outshoot what you can do with your own. That does not lessen their ability to enjoy the sport, it just means they spent their money in the wrong place. To make matters worse, most of those guys show up with cans of M855 to feed that expensive AR. They bought the marketing shtick and forum hype about how accurate "X brand" AR is, and forgot that shooter and ammo quality is the more important part of the equation. If you cannot hit the range regularly for whatever reason, leave the hoarded surplus ammo at home; bring some quality ammo to enjoy your range day with.

Occasionally, my assumption about guys that show up with boutique AR's is proven wrong, but at a rate of 1 out of 20. It is pointless to buy a $2500 AR that is capable of sub-MOA if all you can get out of it consistently is 3-4" groups. You can get that with an AK, which never incorporated the word "precision" in its design process at any time, and certainly does not cost $2500. As an AK fan, I always have at least 3 with me at the range, and I use a completely stock Romanian SAR-1 with surplus ammo from the 60's to illustrate that point when one of them asks for tips.

[homersapien 11,366]

i was for banning assault weapons until i started watching "The Walking Dead". Now i think it should be mandatory to have a Adam Lanza type setup in your home.

That's as practical an argument for them as any.

[cooltigger21 0]

Well when I buy a gun like this, not necessarily one of these, I will be out on the range with it learning it and getting better. I won't buy one just to show it and only take it out a couple times a year.

[DKW 86 7,419]

There is a market out there for this kind of thing, I am not that market myself.

The best shooters i know in my life have taken modest to good weapons and have trained with them to make themselves very proficient.

I can honestly say that some of the ex-military guys i know, and i know several in a boutique shooting club here in Decatur, that would spend the jack for these kinds of weapons and will still not shoot any better than the average joe. To them, it is the snob factor of owning THAT piece. One of my dearest friends is a IE that is 125 soaking wet and he just bought a scoped/lasered 9mm handgun that he cant hit the broadside of a barn with. Hell, he can barely support the scope/laser in one hand.

Shooting is always about practice. If you see 50 people shoot on an average range day, maybe 5 of them have invested the time and money (mostly ammo) in regular practice. The other 45 are people that could not shoot sub-MOA if you gave them a sniper rifle on a tripod with match ammo.

Drop $700-800 on a DPMS flat-top AR, top it off with a red dot or holo with magnifier (or a decent 4x). Take the $1500-2000 that you did not spend on a boutique AR and kitting it out, and spend it on ammo and range time instead. You will outshoot the guys at the range with boutique AR's that only get out once or twice a year. You will also be able to take their rifle and outshoot what you can do with your own. That does not lessen their ability to enjoy the sport, it just means they spent their money in the wrong place. To make matters worse, most of those guys show up with cans of M855 to feed that expensive AR. They bought the marketing shtick and forum hype about how accurate "X brand" AR is, and forgot that shooter and ammo quality is the more important part of the equation. If you cannot hit the range regularly for whatever reason, leave the hoarded surplus ammo at home; bring some quality ammo to enjoy your range day with.

Occasionally, my assumption about guys that show up with boutique AR's is proven wrong, but at a rate of 1 out of 20. It is pointless to buy a $2500 AR that is capable of sub-MOA if all you can get out of it consistently is 3-4" groups. You can get that with an AK, which never incorporated the word "precision" in its design process at any time, and certainly does not cost $2500. As an AK fan, I always have at least 3 with me at the range, and I use a completely stock Romanian SAR-1 with surplus ammo from the 60's to illustrate that point when one of them asks for tips.