Yahoo political reporter: Cruz talking about God given rights is bizarre

[Strychnine 1,802]

And with that, i am off to find something to occupy my mind...Yall are too funny .

V'ger?

After what it did to those Klingons, I'd say V'ger is serious business.

[homersapien 11,362]

Even if you don't "believe" in God...He believes in You. We are given or rights by THE Creator...

Who are you to speak for V'ger ?

One of the best episodes ever.

[homersapien 11,362]

God was kind of slow to warm up to women, too. ;D/>

:-\

You have a better example of the treatment of slaves and women from 4000 years ago that you care to share?

Better example?

[homersapien 11,362]

God was kind of slow to warm up to women, too. ;D/>

:-\/>

You have a better example of the treatment of slaves and women from 4000 years ago that you care to share?

Throughout multiple threads I've posted quite a few from the Old Testament that clearly puts women below men.

You have posted things that clearly shows that the GOD of Abraham sees a clear distinction between a man and a woman. Nothing more and nothing less!

There is nothing written that speaks of GOD putting women below men.

Women have been treated as chattel throughout many extended periods in human history. Of course, common men (peasants) weren't treated much better.

[aubfaninga 16]

Old Testament. Why do people keep bringing up an old covenant that has been done away with?

Why are you so ashamed of the god written about in Exodus?

I'm not, but I am smart enough to understand why Jesus came here. And I understand the significance of what He did. The old covenant is of no value to me other than to give me a historical context of biblical figures and events and for me to derive wisdom from. I am under the New Covenant. Not the old.

So allow me to play devils advocate then.

The old testament testifies that GOD chose 3 people to lead Israel from bondage. 2 men and 1 women. The New Testament has Jesus choosing 12 apostles, then 1 replacement, and Paul with his 3 sidekicks. All male.

The old testament never says that women should remain silent yet the New testament does.

The old testament shows a women as a judge while the new testament shows a women washing feet.

The testament has entire books written around women while the new testament has not even a letter.

The Old Testament shows that women can claim inheritance and has laws that protect Women. The new is silent.

What say you?

What specifically are you referencing? Paul states in Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

The statement in Galatians 3:28 must be taken in the context and used in the specific point he was making. This verse cannot be applied outside of those parameters. Paul himself addresses the listeners as brothers and sisters just a few verses before and sets the book mark for the example. Galatians 3:15 "Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life."

Even you yourself have pointed out many times the difference between a Jew and a Greek. Paul does too in his other letters. You can't tell me in one conversation that Matthew 24 and certain parts of Revelations are for Jewish believers but then pull out Paul to prove their is no difference in Jew or Greek, Male or Female.

The very same Paul wrote this...

1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

1 Timothy 3:2 "An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife..."

1 Corinthians 11:6 "For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered."

AND MY PERSONAL FAVORITE TO BE ATTACKED WITH....

1 Timothy 2:15 "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."

Either Paul has personality disorders, a false apostle, some books in the New Testament are frauds, you cherry pick verses out of context while ignoring others, or some other explanation that I cannot understand.

PAUL DEFINATELY SAW A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN. I have my defense for such questions but I threw the lob for you to hit.

You went to bunt and whiffed.

[Aufan59 60]

Even if you don't "believe" in God...He believes in You. We are given or rights by THE Creator...

THE Creator can give us rights, but they are irrelevant if man can take them away.

How relevant was "God a given rights to freedom" to slaves?

if I read my Bible correctly, and I did, God freed some Jewish slaves too!! ;-)

But God has an overall bad track record of protecting rights.

Meh, this goes into the argument of why God allows suffering. You can never get a non evasive answer on that topic.

[Mims44 1,867]

Even if you don't "believe" in God...He believes in You. We are given or rights by THE Creator...

THE Creator can give us rights, but they are irrelevant if man can take them away.

How relevant was "God a given rights to freedom" to slaves?

if I read my Bible correctly, and I did, God freed some Jewish slaves too!! ;-)

But God has an overall bad track record of protecting rights.

Meh, this goes into the argument of why God allows suffering. You can never get a non evasive answer on that topic.

>God is all powerful

>>Everything happens according to Gods plan.

>>>Suffering is rampant around the world

>>>>God wills suffering

>>>>>Gods plan is for you to suffer

There's actually a quite large group that adheres to this, the kinder friendly huggable God is kinda new and western.

[cooltigger21 0]

Even if you don't "believe" in God...He believes in You. We are given or rights by THE Creator...

THE Creator can give us rights, but they are irrelevant if man can take them away.

How relevant was "God a given rights to freedom" to slaves?

if I read my Bible correctly, and I did, God freed some Jewish slaves too!! ;-)

But God has an overall bad track record of protecting rights.

Meh, this goes into the argument of why God allows suffering. You can never get a non evasive answer on that topic.

You just don't like the answers. I don't know why some people suffer and others don't. It's not my place to question that. You are trying to understand something that the human mind isn't capable of understanding.

[aubfaninga 16]

Even if you don't "believe" in God...He believes in You. We are given or rights by THE Creator...

THE Creator can give us rights, but they are irrelevant if man can take them away.

How relevant was "God a given rights to freedom" to slaves?

if I read my Bible correctly, and I did, God freed some Jewish slaves too!! ;-)

But God has an overall bad track record of protecting rights.

Meh, this goes into the argument of why God allows suffering. You can never get a non evasive answer on that topic.

No the bible claims that MAN has a very bad habit of sticking their finger at the one that can protect them. Which carries over into your second argument. Adam and Eve did not suffer until they chose to turn their back on GOD. True or false that is what the bible claims.

The bible also claims that he went in and rescued a bunch of Hebrew misfits from a horrible situation, took them under his wing, protected them, fed them, and fought most of their battles but these people still chose to leave the nest just like a teenage boy rebels against his parents.

Again whether it is true or not is up for you to decide but I only want to relay the message the scriptures try to relay. A loving Father does not want his son to suffer a burn from the grill but at some point the Father most always let the son learn the hard way. Just like me teaching my son hard work ethics with his sports. I don't like seeing him short of breath and suffering from muscle pain but sometimes these things are necessary for growth.

I am not making this stuff up the bible teaches the same way as a FATHER leading his rebellious drug addicted son(mankind).

Deuteronomy 8

“You must obey all the commands that I give you today, because then you will live and grow to become a great nation. You will get the land that the Lord promised to your ancestors. And you must remember the entire trip that the Lord your God has led you through these 40 years in the desert. He was testing you. He wanted to make you humble. He wanted to know what is in your heart. He wanted to know if you would obey his commands. He humbled you and let you be hungry. Then he fed you with manna—something you did not know about before. It was something your ancestors had never seen. Why did the Lord do this? Because he wanted you to know that it is not just bread that keeps people alive. People’s lives depend on what the Lord says. These past 40 years, your clothes did not wear out, and your feet did not swell. You must remember that the Lord your God teaches and corrects you as a father teaches and corrects his son."

[aubfaninga 16]

Even if you don't "believe" in God...He believes in You. We are given or rights by THE Creator...

THE Creator can give us rights, but they are irrelevant if man can take them away.

How relevant was "God a given rights to freedom" to slaves?

if I read my Bible correctly, and I did, God freed some Jewish slaves too!! ;-)

But God has an overall bad track record of protecting rights.

Meh, this goes into the argument of why God allows suffering. You can never get a non evasive answer on that topic.

>God is all powerful

>>Everything happens according to Gods plan.

>>>Suffering is rampant around the world

>>>>God wills suffering

>>>>>Gods plan is for you to suffer

There's actually a quite large group that adheres to this, the kinder friendly huggable God is kinda new and western.

LOL

Jesus is not Mr. Rogers either! The new western Jesus is more like the purple Barney than the Jewish Messiah of the Israelites.

[Aufan59 60]

Even if you don't "believe" in God...He believes in You. We are given or rights by THE Creator...

THE Creator can give us rights, but they are irrelevant if man can take them away.

How relevant was "God a given rights to freedom" to slaves?

if I read my Bible correctly, and I did, God freed some Jewish slaves too!! ;-)

But God has an overall bad track record of protecting rights.

Meh, this goes into the argument of why God allows suffering. You can never get a non evasive answer on that topic.

You just don't like the answers. I don't know why some people suffer and others don't. It's not my place to question that. You are trying to understand something that the human mind isn't capable of understanding.

Thank you for giving us examples of the evasive answers that answer nothing,

[Weegle777 78]

Old Testament. Why do people keep bringing up an old covenant that has been done away with?

Why are you so ashamed of the god written about in Exodus?

I'm not, but I am smart enough to understand why Jesus came here. And I understand the significance of what He did. The old covenant is of no value to me other than to give me a historical context of biblical figures and events and for me to derive wisdom from. I am under the New Covenant. Not the old.

So allow me to play devils advocate then.

The old testament testifies that GOD chose 3 people to lead Israel from bondage. 2 men and 1 women. The New Testament has Jesus choosing 12 apostles, then 1 replacement, and Paul with his 3 sidekicks. All male.

The old testament never says that women should remain silent yet the New testament does.

The old testament shows a women as a judge while the new testament shows a women washing feet.

The testament has entire books written around women while the new testament has not even a letter.

The Old Testament shows that women can claim inheritance and has laws that protect Women. The new is silent.

What say you?

What specifically are you referencing? Paul states in Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

The statement in Galatians 3:28 must be taken in the context and used in the specific point he was making. This verse cannot be applied outside of those parameters. Paul himself addresses the listeners as brothers and sisters just a few verses before and sets the book mark for the example. Galatians 3:15 "Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life."

:brickwall:/> Even you yourself have pointed out many times the difference between a Jew and a Greek. Paul does too in his other letters. You can't tell me in one conversation that Matthew 24 and certain parts of Revelations are for Jewish believers but then pull out Paul to prove their is no difference in Jew or Greek, Male or Female. :no:/>

The very same Paul wrote this...

1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

1 Timothy 3:2 "An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife..."

1 Corinthians 11:6 "For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered."

AND MY PERSONAL FAVORITE TO BE ATTACKED WITH....

1 Timothy 2:15 "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."

Either Paul has personality disorders, a false apostle, some books in the New Testament are frauds, you cherry pick verses out of context while ignoring others, or some other explanation that I cannot understand.

PAUL DEFINATELY SAW A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN. I have my defense for such questions but I threw the lob for you to hit.

You went to bunt and whiffed. :poke:/>

Cool bro, you have won the internet. Must be so proud.

[Weegle777 78]

The thing is aufaninga, we have discussed context at length, and it hasn't gotten us anywhere. I could go on an on about the many times that you have spoken in circles, but it wouldn't make a difference. There comes a time when you grow weary of circle arguments, and that time for me is now. I hope you find truth brother. God bless.

[Aufan59 60]

Even if you don't "believe" in God...He believes in You. We are given or rights by THE Creator...

THE Creator can give us rights, but they are irrelevant if man can take them away.

How relevant was "God a given rights to freedom" to slaves?

if I read my Bible correctly, and I did, God freed some Jewish slaves too!! ;-)

But God has an overall bad track record of protecting rights.

Meh, this goes into the argument of why God allows suffering. You can never get a non evasive answer on that topic.

No the bible claims that MAN has a very bad habit of sticking their finger at the one that can protect them. Which carries over into your second argument. Adam and Eve did not suffer until they chose to turn their back on GOD. True or false that is what the bible claims.

The bible also claims that he went in and rescued a bunch of Hebrew misfits from a horrible situation, took them under his wing, protected them, fed them, and fought most of their battles but these people still chose to leave the nest just like a teenage boy rebels against his parents.

Again whether it is true or not is up for you to decide but I only want to relay the message the scriptures try to relay. A loving Father does not want his son to suffer a burn from the grill but at some point the Father most always let the son learn the hard way. Just like me teaching my son hard work ethics with his sports. I don't like seeing him short of breath and suffering from muscle pain but sometimes these things are necessary for growth.

I am not making this stuff up the bible teaches the same way as a FATHER leading his rebellious drug addicted son(mankind).

Deuteronomy 8

“You must obey all the commands that I give you today, because then you will live and grow to become a great nation. You will get the land that the Lord promised to your ancestors. And you must remember the entire trip that the Lord your God has led you through these 40 years in the desert. He was testing you. He wanted to make you humble. He wanted to know what is in your heart. He wanted to know if you would obey his commands. He humbled you and let you be hungry. Then he fed you with manna—something you did not know about before. It was something your ancestors had never seen. Why did the Lord do this? Because he wanted you to know that it is not just bread that keeps people alive. People’s lives depend on what the Lord says. These past 40 years, your clothes did not wear out, and your feet did not swell. You must remember that the Lord your God teaches and corrects you as a father teaches and corrects his son."

This is EXACTLY my point.

If God can take away our God given rights on a whim, so we can "learn the hard way", then God isn't really protecting those rights.

We have a man made constitution to protect our rights, so they can't be arbitrarily taken away.

[homersapien 11,362]

The thing is aufaninga, we have discussed context at length, and it hasn't gotten us anywhere. I could go on an on about the many times that you have spoken in circles, but it wouldn't make a difference. There comes a time when you grow weary of circle arguments, and that time for me is now. I hope you find truth brother. God bless.

Well, at least you aren't trying to kill each other.

[aubfaninga 16]

This is EXACTLY my point.

If God can take away our God given rights on a whim, so we can "learn the hard way", then God isn't really protecting those rights.

We have a man made constitution to protect our rights, so they can't be arbitrarily taken away.

But you forgot the small little point about living outside the LAWS of this land. Rights are taken away everyday at your local prison. You can play by the rules and your rights will be protected or the alternative.

MAN giveth and MAN taketh away

[aubfaninga 16]

The thing is aufaninga, we have discussed context at length, and it hasn't gotten us anywhere. I could go on an on about the many times that you have spoken in circles, but it wouldn't make a difference. There comes a time when you grow weary of circle arguments, and that time for me is now. I hope you find truth brother. God bless.

Please show where I have spoke in circles concerning my faith or else I have to assume that you are giving a false statement. This is the first time you have ever accused me of any such thing and it set me aback because normally I am accused of being too straight forward, narrow, and with blinders on when it comes to my faith.

[Mims44 1,867]

This is EXACTLY my point.

If God can take away our God given rights on a whim, so we can "learn the hard way", then God isn't really protecting those rights.

We have a man made constitution to protect our rights, so they can't be arbitrarily taken away.

But you forgot the small little point about living outside the LAWS of this land. Rights are taken away everyday at your local prison. You can play by the rules and your rights will be protected or the alternative.

MAN giveth and MAN taketh away

That's still on different levels of understanding. It's easy to go to a prison and say OK these guys are in here for robbing, raping, murdering, and etc.

But explaining away the supernatural cause of why an innocent child is abducted, butt raped, mutilated, and murdered for seemingly no reason is a bit harder to do.

These are the types of philosophical hurdles that people struggle with when contemplating a fair and just omnipotent God.

[aubfaninga 16]

This is EXACTLY my point.

If God can take away our God given rights on a whim, so we can "learn the hard way", then God isn't really protecting those rights.

We have a man made constitution to protect our rights, so they can't be arbitrarily taken away.

But you forgot the small little point about living outside the LAWS of this land. Rights are taken away everyday at your local prison. You can play by the rules and your rights will be protected or the alternative.

MAN giveth and MAN taketh away

That's still on different levels of understanding. It's easy to go to a prison and say OK these guys are in here for robbing, raping, murdering, and etc.

But explaining away the supernatural cause of why an innocent child is abducted, butt raped, mutilated, and murdered for seemingly no reason is a bit harder to do.

These are the types of philosophical hurdles that people struggle with when contemplating a fair and just omnipotent God.

I would be telling a lie if I did not admit that I struggle with such why questions myself.

I know it might seem like the easy way out but at the end of the day I probably could not comprehend even if GOD explained all my why questions to me.

The best that I can relate with is that I fully know what heartbreak feels like. I have felt the pain of being hurt by someone for myself. How do I teach this to my children to prepare them? How do I keep my child from such pain? Is it even possible without robbing my children of their independance and free will?

All the knowledge and power in the world is useless when free will is a LAW that governs my parenting style. I just prepare and make sure I am here when they need me.

[cooltigger21 0]

This is EXACTLY my point.

If God can take away our God given rights on a whim, so we can "learn the hard way", then God isn't really protecting those rights.

We have a man made constitution to protect our rights, so they can't be arbitrarily taken away.

But you forgot the small little point about living outside the LAWS of this land. Rights are taken away everyday at your local prison. You can play by the rules and your rights will be protected or the alternative.

MAN giveth and MAN taketh away

That's still on different levels of understanding. It's easy to go to a prison and say OK these guys are in here for robbing, raping, murdering, and etc.

But explaining away the supernatural cause of why an innocent child is abducted, butt raped, mutilated, and murdered for seemingly no reason is a bit harder to do.

These are the types of philosophical hurdles that people struggle with when contemplating a fair and just omnipotent God.

I would be telling a lie if I did not admit that I struggle with such why questions myself.

I know it might seem like the easy way out but at the end of the day I probably could not comprehend even if GOD explained all my why questions to me.

The best that I can relate with is that I fully know what heartbreak feels like. I have felt the pain of being hurt by someone for myself. How do I teach this to my children to prepare them? How do I keep my child from such pain? Is it even possible without robbing my children of their independance and free will?

All the knowledge and power in the world is useless when free will is a LAW that governs my parenting style. I just prepare and make sure I am here when they need me.

We can't understand, in our human mind, why all this is. God is an eternal being and we are finite. Everything we are and do has a beginning and an end. How can I possibly fully comprehend the mind of the one who created the universe?

[aubfaninga 16]

This is EXACTLY my point.

If God can take away our God given rights on a whim, so we can "learn the hard way", then God isn't really protecting those rights.

We have a man made constitution to protect our rights, so they can't be arbitrarily taken away.

But you forgot the small little point about living outside the LAWS of this land. Rights are taken away everyday at your local prison. You can play by the rules and your rights will be protected or the alternative.

MAN giveth and MAN taketh away

That's still on different levels of understanding. It's easy to go to a prison and say OK these guys are in here for robbing, raping, murdering, and etc.

But explaining away the supernatural cause of why an innocent child is abducted, butt raped, mutilated, and murdered for seemingly no reason is a bit harder to do.

These are the types of philosophical hurdles that people struggle with when contemplating a fair and just omnipotent God.

I would be telling a lie if I did not admit that I struggle with such why questions myself.

I know it might seem like the easy way out but at the end of the day I probably could not comprehend even if GOD explained all my why questions to me.

The best that I can relate with is that I fully know what heartbreak feels like. I have felt the pain of being hurt by someone for myself. How do I teach this to my children to prepare them? How do I keep my child from such pain? Is it even possible without robbing my children of their independance and free will?

All the knowledge and power in the world is useless when free will is a LAW that governs my parenting style. I just prepare and make sure I am here when they need me.

We can't understand, in our human mind, why all this is. God is an eternal being and we are finite. Everything we are and do has a beginning and an end. How can I possibly fully comprehend the mind of the one who created the universe?

Only a believer like you could understand how much it meant to me that the bible records Jesus as crying at the news of Lazarus.

Pain is real and it is part of this reality. Even knowing that he could raise Lazarus it still shook Jesus in his spirit. We can't see it now but Jesus has not forgot our pain and suffering and he will destroy it.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Maybe we should consider our God given rights as "natural rights" and be done with the conversation. " The founding fathers rallied to that Lockean philosophy and ran with it, so maybe we should too.

[Mims44 1,867]

Maybe we should consider our God given rights as "natural rights" and be done with the conversation. " The founding fathers rallied to that Lockean philosophy and ran with it, so maybe we should too.

Eh, we've kinda strayed from that in this thread.

"Endowed by their creator" covers all bases for everyone anyways.

[cooltigger21 0]

Maybe we should consider our God given rights as "natural rights" and be done with the conversation. " The founding fathers rallied to that Lockean philosophy and ran with it, so maybe we should too.

You can't separate them. God is nature. Nature is God. He made it all and put it in place.

[aubfaninga 16]

Maybe we should consider our God given rights as "natural rights" and be done with the conversation. " The founding fathers rallied to that Lockean philosophy and ran with it, so maybe we should too.

Eh, we've kinda strayed from that in this thread.

"Endowed by their creator" covers all bases for everyone anyways.

My wife might question the "endowed" part, at least in my case