Iran Accuses U.S. of Lying About New Nuke Agreement

[homersapien 11,357]

This is an astonishingly good Iran deal

http://www.vox.com/2.../iran-deal-good

Iran, Cuba And China: Obama Steadily Builds Diplomatic Legacy

http://www.huffingto..._n_6996586.html

Planet Politics: What The Iran Deal Means For Obama's Foreign Policy Legacy

http://www.huffingto..._n_6995758.html

Optimism as Iran nuclear deal framework announced; more work ahead

http://www.cnn.com/2...-nuclear-talks/

Iran Agrees to Detailed Nuclear Outline, First Step Toward a Wider Deal

http://www.nytimes.c...lear-talks.html

A step-by-step guide to what the Iran agreement actually means

http://www.washingto...actually-means/

How did all these folks miss the part that "Free Beacon" reported?

[AUUSN 823]

• Youth is the largest population bloc in Iran. Over 60 percent of Iran’s 73 million people are under 30 years old.
  

• Iranian youth are among the most politically active in the 57 nations of the Islamic world. As the most restive segment of Iranian society, the young also represent one of the greatest long-term threats to the current form of theocratic rule.
  

• Young activists have influenced the Islamic Republic’s political agenda since 1997. After the 2009 presidential election, youth was the biggest bloc involved in the region’s first sustained “people power” movement for democratic change, creating a new political dynamic in the Middle East.
  

• The Islamic Republic forcibly regained control over the most rebellious sector of society through detentions, expulsions from universities, and expanding the powers of its own young paramilitary forces.
  

• But youth demands have not changed, and anger seethes deeply beneath the surface. The regime also remains vulnerable because it has failed to address basic socio-economic problems among the young.
  

• Iran is one of the most tech-savvy societies in the developing world, with an estimated 28 million Internet users, led by youth.
  

• Iran boasts between 60,000 and 110,000 active blogs, one of the highest numbers in the Middle East, led by youth.
  

• Despite prohibitions on women’s dress and make-up, Iranian women account for almost one-third of all cosmetics bought in the two dozen countries of the Middle East, again led by youth.
  

• The impact of Iran’s baby boomers, born in the 1980s, is only beginning to be felt. Now in their twenties, the boomers will become even more important as they age in defining – and potentially redefining – Iran’s political, economic and social agenda over the next quarter century.
  

• Like the general population, a significant percentage of young Iranians are believed to support Iran’s quest for nuclear energy as a key to economic development—and their own futures.
  

• Despite sanctions, Iran’s young are better educated and more worldly than any previous generation. Most are exposed to global media, ideas and culture through satellite television and the Internet. Most young Iranians are believed to want to be part of the international community and globalization.
  

• But given millennia-old Persian nationalism, even young reform advocates may be reluctant to compromise with the outside world on issues viewed as impinging on national sovereignty. http://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/youth
  

[Weegle777 78]

Only a naive fool would believe we could make any workable deal with these people.

The US negotiated the right to inspect Iran's facilities for the next 20 years. The level of transparency and accountability in this deal is such that trust really doesn't even enter the equation.

You serious? This isn't an issue of dealing with the neighbors across the street. The primary reason for Iran even dealing with nuclear energy is to wipe Israel off of the map. If you listen to what they have said over the years, it would be pretty clear.

Speaking of serious, what exactly is your proposal if not this agreement?

That is a good question. In this agreement, does it state that inspectors can just drop in and inspect, or does the Iranian government have to be advised in advance of a visit?

[AUUSN 823]

The double lives of Iranian youth

Much of Iran’s youth are living a double life today, caught in the middle of a culture clash between the East and the West.

Many middle-class 20-somethings, known for their love of brand-name clothing and status symbols, protested against former President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in 2009 after widespread allegations of election fraud. But after a fierce government crackdown, the financially privileged and their so-called Green Movement faded into the margins of political life.

“If I did not wear jeans in the streets of Tehran, people would ask me if I was a conservative right-wing supporter,” Rostamkhani said. “I am from this generation of post-revolution youth, so I began to wonder: How would it be if I had not left Iran? How would I be then?”

Spending one month in Iran in both 2012 and 2013, Rostamkhani sought access to the private lives of middle-class Iranian youth. Although resigned to the rules of the Islamic republic and the small loopholes in the system that may allow a group of girls to get away with smoking a water pipe or a couple to mingle in the quiet hills overlooking Tehran, many young people still fear allowing the public into their treasured subculture of rock ‘n’ roll and rowdy parties.

“My goal has been to go into private sphere, so you see so much leisure. It is a totally different set of behaviors than the public life,” Rostamkhani said. “Even the vocabulary that men and women use in their public life is different just to maintain a sense of moral correctness.”

Behind the walls of private complexes, these men and women smoke, drink and dance more as a form of individual expression than an outright collective defiance against conservative authorities. Away from the wary eyes of the morality police, female friends take drags from a cigarette and flirt with male companions. But when it comes to luxury and self-indulgence, this group of Ray-Ban devotees wants the spotlight. http://cnnphotos.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/11/the-double-lives-of-iranian-youth/

[AUUSN 823]

By the time they reach high-school age, many teenagers spend hours a day on Instagram and Facebook. They share videos, edit photos, and satisfy sexual curiosities. But even the virtual sphere is not immune to very real repercussions from the authorities. The recent arrests of the young men and women behind the YouTube Happy video, which depicted a group of kids dancing to the popular Pharrell Williams song, shows the system's rigid approach to the perceived 'Westoxification' of its youth. Such attitudes, pervasive in the education sphere, largely ignore the cultural reality young people experience online, in the streets, and in their interpersonal relationships. As a result, young men like Pedram and Amin are forced to live schizophrenic lives, balancing the stylistic tastes of their generation against the traditional expectations of the system. http://www.theguardian.com/world/iran-blog/2014/jun/03/iran-youth-internet-restrictions-claustrophobia

[cooltigger21 0]

Iran isn't going to blatantly cheat and go whole hog to violate the agreement. They'll cheat around the edges and do it bit by bit. Meantime the sanctions get lifted immediately and any cheating they do get caught it isn't likely to ever be punished since everyone would have to agree to what is and what isn't cheating and whether they had done anything intentional or not. Russia will thwart anything the United States wants to do to them. The key point is that all of these provisions of things they are supposedly prohibited from doing have a sunset.

[AUUSN 823]

[AUUSN 823]

[AUDub 11,137]

The fact that he is in our military does not give me comfort. It actually gives me great concern that there are a lot more just like him. There are way too many obama sycophants in the top brass and they are more concerned about their career than anything else.

Alright, this **** is getting on my nerves. I'm getting tired of you and Blue insulting folks here by questioning their ability to do their jobs.

Ban yourself.

[AUUSN 823]

[icanthearyou 4,462]

Guns, gold and God is the only things that is gonna getcha thru a nuther libtard rigeem. If we dont elect Mike Huckaby we is doomed.

[homersapien 11,357]

Only a naive fool would believe we could make any workable deal with these people.

The US negotiated the right to inspect Iran's facilities for the next 20 years. The level of transparency and accountability in this deal is such that trust really doesn't even enter the equation.

You serious? This isn't an issue of dealing with the neighbors across the street. The primary reason for Iran even dealing with nuclear energy is to wipe Israel off of the map. If you listen to what they have said over the years, it would be pretty clear.

Speaking of serious, what exactly is your proposal if not this agreement?

That is a good question. In this agreement, does it state that inspectors can just drop in and inspect, or does the Iranian government have to be advised in advance of a visit?

I don't know the details yet.

But can I take from your question that you accept the proposition that a (good) agreement is possible and desirable?

[quietfan 233]

AUUSN would gleefully show pics of US prisoners being held in Tehran , so this is no real surprise.

Care to prove this allegation? Then prove its relevance to the thread topic?

The fact that he is in our military does not give me comfort. It actually gives me great concern that there are a lot more just like him. There are way too many obama sycophants in the top brass and they are more concerned about their career than anything else.

Alright, this **** is getting on my nerves. I'm getting tired of you and Blue insulting folks here by questioning their ability to do their jobs.

Ban yourself.

I'm with you, Bigben!

Personal insults have no place in debate, whether hurled by either side. "When unable to respond with a logical rebuttal, just hurl insults or attack the character of your opponent" has no place as a valid tactic in formal debate, and, IMHO, says more about the character of the source of the insult than the character of its target.

[DKW 86 7,419]

We will just sit back and watch as this not signed, only a loosely agreed to document, that may not be legally binding on anyone, may or may not get signed.

The Iranian Government has broken agreements in the past. They will almost certainly break this one. I HOPE THEY DONT, but the record is there.

[Weegle777 78]

Only a naive fool would believe we could make any workable deal with these people.

The US negotiated the right to inspect Iran's facilities for the next 20 years. The level of transparency and accountability in this deal is such that trust really doesn't even enter the equation.

You serious? This isn't an issue of dealing with the neighbors across the street. The primary reason for Iran even dealing with nuclear energy is to wipe Israel off of the map. If you listen to what they have said over the years, it would be pretty clear.

Speaking of serious, what exactly is your proposal if not this agreement?

That is a good question. In this agreement, does it state that inspectors can just drop in and inspect, or does the Iranian government have to be advised in advance of a visit?

I don't know the details yet.

But can I take from your question that you accept the proposition that a (good) agreement is possible and desirable?

I don't trust that the Iranian government would be transparent. But, if inspectors can just drop in unexpected, it would make a deal a little more feasible. Of course, who knows what lengths the Iranian government would go to, to be clandestine with their desires.

[alexava 6,973]

Im all for a deal but must include random inspections especially the underground facility. Give it a chance.

[AUUSN 823]

Im all for a deal but must include random inspections especially the underground facility. Give it a chance.

Agreed and by the way the underground facility that was built during 'sanctions'

[icanthearyou 4,462]

Did sanctions make this deal possible?

Point being, perhaps this is the somewhat unintended result of both parties foreign policy moves?

[homersapien 11,357]

We will just sit back and watch as this not signed, only a loosely agreed to document, that may not be legally binding on anyone, may or may not get signed.

The Iranian Government has broken agreements in the past. They will almost certainly break this one. I HOPE THEY DONT, but the record is there.

That is a nihilistic approach to negotiating. Let's at least give them the chance to prove you wrong.

And again, it begs the question of what is the alternative? I could understand your attitude if you are proposing we go to war with them. Is that what you propose?

[homersapien 11,357]

Im all for a deal but must include random inspections especially the underground facility. Give it a chance.

Agreed and by the way the underground facility that was built during 'sanctions'

That's the part that I think most opponents to a negotiated settlement don't understand. They seem to think that sanctions alone were keeping them from proceeding with a bomb program, so we should have just settled in with the status quo.

[homersapien 11,357]

Did sanctions make this deal possible?

Point being, perhaps this is the somewhat unintended result of both parties foreign policy moves?

Yes. That was the whole point of the sanctions to begin with. To get Iran to understand there would be a price to pay for proceeding with their bomb program.

[quietfan 233]

Im all for a deal but must include random inspections especially the underground facility. Give it a chance.

Agreed and by the way the underground facility that was built during 'sanctions'

That's the part that I think most opponents to a negotiated settlement don't understand. They seem to think that sanctions alone were keeping them from proceeding with a bomb program, so we should have just settled in with the status quo.

I absolutely agree, Homer & AUUSN. Sanctions were not preventing them from building a bomb. If nothing changed, they probably would have a bomb in a very few years

To me, that left only war or negotiations as options for denying them the Bomb. Given those two options, one should ALWAYS try negotiations before resorting to war.

No one is saying "Trust Iran". We (The Big 6, with EU's support) are saying "Let's get an agreement that is verifiable and will be monitored". It's too early to make claims like "Obama has already given up verification!" because no one, not even the negotiators themselves, yet knows what the final agreement will look like! But I don't think any of the parties involved is willing to bet their lives and national security on the "good faith" of Iranian leaders.

[AUFAN78 3,892]

AUUSN would gleefully show pics of US prisoners being held in Tehran , so this is no real surprise.

Care to prove this allegation? Then prove its relevance to the thread topic?

The fact that he is in our military does not give me comfort. It actually gives me great concern that there are a lot more just like him. There are way too many obama sycophants in the top brass and they are more concerned about their career than anything else.

Alright, this **** is getting on my nerves. I'm getting tired of you and Blue insulting folks here by questioning their ability to do their jobs.

Ban yourself.

I'm with you, Bigben!

Personal insults have no place in debate, whether hurled by either side. "When unable to respond with a logical rebuttal, just hurl insults or attack the character of your opponent" has no place as a valid tactic in formal debate, and, IMHO, says more about the character of the source of the insult than the character of its target.

I agree and I'm glad you had the courage to denounce both sides. It happens daily and lends nothing to the forum.

[cooltigger21 0]

Im all for a deal but must include random inspections especially the underground facility. Give it a chance.

Agreed and by the way the underground facility that was built during 'sanctions'

That's the part that I think most opponents to a negotiated settlement don't understand. They seem to think that sanctions alone were keeping them from proceeding with a bomb program, so we should have just settled in with the status quo.

Maybe not but this damn sure ain't gonna do it. But I thought they didn't want nukes. That's what we've been told. At the very minimum Iran used these "negotiations" to get the sanctions lifted which just gives them a whole lot more money to use for sponsoring terrorism around the world. At the worst it only delays their getting nukes. Once the restrictions sunset they're free to do what they want. Don't forget that Russia will be glad to run interference for them. Any attempt by the U.S. or anyone else to restore sanctions will go nowhere. This framework is so full of holes that if it were a ship it would be at the bottom of the ocean. Our side is desperate for a deal. That is a terrible spot to be negotiating from.

[homersapien 11,357]

Im all for a deal but must include random inspections especially the underground facility. Give it a chance.

Agreed and by the way the underground facility that was built during 'sanctions'

That's the part that I think most opponents to a negotiated settlement don't understand. They seem to think that sanctions alone were keeping them from proceeding with a bomb program, so we should have just settled in with the status quo.

Maybe not but this damn sure ain't gonna do it. But I thought they didn't want nukes. That's what we've been told. At the very minimum Iran used these "negotiations" to get the sanctions lifted which just gives them a whole lot more money to use for sponsoring terrorism around the world. At the worst it only delays their getting nukes. Once the restrictions sunset they're free to do what they want. Don't forget that Russia will be glad to run interference for them. Any attempt by the U.S. or anyone else to restore sanctions will go nowhere. This framework is so full of holes that if it were a ship it would be at the bottom of the ocean. Our side is desperate for a deal. That is a terrible spot to be negotiating from.

It's fun and comfortable to be nihilistic isn't it?

Takes all the pressure off decision-making by simply eliminating it.

Brilliant!