Iran's Revolutionary Guards Commander Supports Nuclear Agreement

[homersapien 11,363]

Bottom line on this deal is that Iran gets to keep what material they already have and can go on making more stopping just short of being weapons grade. They get to keep their advanced centrifuges. The sanctions get lifted. They get to use the money to sponsor more terrorist activities around the world. Once this deal expires they can go right ahead and make enough weapons grade to make hundreds of bombs. For the length of this deal they get protected from getting their existing material taken out. Does anyone think we'll go to war to stop them in ten years if we won't now? Without a credible threat of military action they have no reason to stop.

Lets get to warrin and kill all the sobs. Right now! Four its two late.

War Tim? Is that you?

Nah. More than two sentences.

[TheBlueVue 177]

"There is just no way you can rationally spin the facts to portray this agreement as worse than no agreement.

It is obvious you are just butt hurt because Obama will get the credit for it. But that's no reason to oppose a strategy that is clearly to the benefit of our country. It's really kind of ironic seeing as how you are constantly complaining about Obama deliberately trying to damage our country.

You need to look into a mirror to see who would sacrifice the best interests of our country for the sake of political spite."

What I can do is remind you that negotiations usually entail both sides giving up something. That did not happen. None of the requisites for a deal were adhered to. Obama said that Fordow and Arak would have to close..neither will. Instead of using sanctions we capitulated reducing our position of strength. I'll also point out that a so called deal with Iran is probably not worth a lot given the fact that Muslims do not believe they have to honor deals with infidels. Even if we created a 10 year window wherein, as you say, we kick the can down the road, why do you believe Iran wont continue to cheat like the bandits they are? They have persistently reneged and cheated and even thrown IAEA inspectors out of the country when they were close to finding out info Iran didn't want them to have. That we relented on the snap checks almost insures they will continue as they always have.

All Obama is interested in is being able to say , "Iran will not develop a nuclear bomb on my watch." Problem with that is all he is really accomplishing is passing on a bigger problem a year and a half from now to the next POTUS.

I wonder if we'll ever know the actual provisions of this deal? I would have no problem whatsoever with Obama getting credit for an arrangement that was handled above board and in a forthright manner but that's simply not barry's style. That fact alone makes me suspicious of the deal. Bottom line, there is a way to negotiate without giving away every bargaining chip up front but that's the style mashed potato face Bolt Neck and barry seem to prefer.

Anyway, I fully expect Congress to shoot it down as they only need like 1 or 2 more votes to gain a veto proof position.

[cooltigger21 0]

Point bis homer they get to keep what material they have now. Right now estimates are they could make about 7 bombs. In ten years they will have enough that within a very short time they can make hundreds. Who is going to try and stop them. Actually Obama let the cat out of the bag yesterday and then the state Dept had to go back and do a big CzYA fdffvvvvv qsaying it was muddled. He was the

[Strychnine 1,802]

What I can do is remind you that negotiations usually entail both sides giving up something. That did not happen. None of the requisites for a deal were adhered to. Obama said that Fordow and Arak would have to close..neither will. Instead of using sanctions we capitulated reducing our position of strength. I'll also point out that a so called deal with Iran is probably not worth a lot given the fact that Muslims do not believe they have to honor deals with infidels. Even if we created a 10 year window wherein, as you say, we kick the can down the road, why do you believe Iran wont continue to cheat like the bandits they are? They have persistently reneged and cheated and even thrown IAEA inspectors out of the country when they were close to finding out info Iran didn't want them to have. That we relented on the snap checks almost insures they will continue as they always have.

All Obama is interested in is being able to say , "Iran will not develop a nuclear bomb on my watch." Problem with that is all he is really accomplishing is passing on a bigger problem a year and a half from now to the next POTUS.

I wonder if we'll ever know the actual provisions of this deal? I would have no problem whatsoever with Obama getting credit for an arrangement that was handled above board and in a forthright manner but that's simply not barry's style. That fact alone makes me suspicious of the deal. Bottom line, there is a way to negotiate without giving away every bargaining chip up front but that's the style mashed potato face Bolt Neck and barry seem to prefer.

Anyway, I fully expect Congress to shoot it down as they only need like 1 or 2 more votes to gain a veto proof position.

http://eeas.europa.eu/statements-eeas/2015/150402_03_en.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negotiations_on_Iran_nuclear_deal_framework

Fordow will be closed as a uranium enrichment facility. That was the point. It will be converted into a "nuclear, physics and technology centre". There will be no fissile material there. Arak will be converted into a research reactor incapable of producing plutonium. That was the point. Their stockpile and enrichment capacity will be reduced. "The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) will be permitted the use of modern technologies and will have enhanced access through agreed procedures, including to clarify past and present issues.

"

Sanctions will not be removed until Iran has been verified to be in compliance with its key nuclear commitments. If they violate the agreement later, then we go back to where we are now, or we bomb them, or we do whatever we choose to do if that happens. Assuming in advance that they are definitely going to violate any agreement is not going to get anyone anywhere productive.

This is, and always was, bigger than Obama and/or Kerry. It was not an agreement reached by negotiations solely between the United States and Iran, while the UK, Germany, France, Russia, and China spent their time in the room playing cards, eating lunch, and drinking coffee.

[TheBlueVue 177]

What I can do is remind you that negotiations usually entail both sides giving up something. That did not happen. None of the requisites for a deal were adhered to. Obama said that Fordow and Arak would have to close..neither will. Instead of using sanctions we capitulated reducing our position of strength. I'll also point out that a so called deal with Iran is probably not worth a lot given the fact that Muslims do not believe they have to honor deals with infidels. Even if we created a 10 year window wherein, as you say, we kick the can down the road, why do you believe Iran wont continue to cheat like the bandits they are? They have persistently reneged and cheated and even thrown IAEA inspectors out of the country when they were close to finding out info Iran didn't want them to have. That we relented on the snap checks almost insures they will continue as they always have.

All Obama is interested in is being able to say , "Iran will not develop a nuclear bomb on my watch." Problem with that is all he is really accomplishing is passing on a bigger problem a year and a half from now to the next POTUS.

I wonder if we'll ever know the actual provisions of this deal? I would have no problem whatsoever with Obama getting credit for an arrangement that was handled above board and in a forthright manner but that's simply not barry's style. That fact alone makes me suspicious of the deal. Bottom line, there is a way to negotiate without giving away every bargaining chip up front but that's the style mashed potato face Bolt Neck and barry seem to prefer.

Anyway, I fully expect Congress to shoot it down as they only need like 1 or 2 more votes to gain a veto proof position.

http://eeas.europa.e...50402_03_en.htm

http://en.wikipedia...._deal_framework

Fordow will be closed as a uranium enrichment facility. That was the point. It will be converted into a "nuclear, physics and technology centre". There will be no fissile material there. Arak will be converted into a research reactor incapable of producing plutonium. That was the point. Their stockpile and enrichment capacity will be reduced. "The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) will be permitted the use of modern technologies and will have enhanced access through agreed procedures, including to clarify past and present issues.

"

Sanctions will not be removed until Iran has been verified to be in compliance with its key nuclear commitments. If they violate the agreement later, then we go back to where we are now, or we bomb them, or we do whatever we choose to do if that happens. Assuming in advance that they are definitely going to violate any agreement is not going to get anyone anywhere productive.

This is, and always was, bigger than Obama and/or Kerry. It was not an agreement reached by negotiations solely between the United States and Iran, while the UK, Germany, France, Russia, and China spent their time in the room playing cards, eating lunch, and drinking coffee.

prior to the negotiations Obama, himself, firmly stated that both Fordow and Arak would have be closed. They wont be closed and I trust, implicitly, the Iranians with their research only...dont you? All anyone can go by is the Iranians' behavior in the past and that doesn't give me much hope they'll remain in compliance and nobody is going to do a damned thing about their non-compliance.

As far as the sanction relief, they'll never be reinstated once they're lifted because there will be financial involvements with those other countries

[cooltigger21 0]

I remember hearing all these same lies about how North Korea was supposed to dismantle their nuclear program.

Iran will comply for now. They'll cheat around the edges and once sanctions are lifted that is the end of that. They'll never get reimposed. Russia has been helping Iran and will continue to do so. They will block any security council actions the United States would try to take, to stick it in our face if for no other reason. Once thus ends and they have all that material that can be quickly upgraded to make weapons who is going to try and stop them? Russia is not our friend in this deal.

[Strychnine 1,802]

prior to the negotiations Obama, himself, firmly stated that both Fordow and Arak would have be closed. They wont be closed and I trust, implicitly, the Iranians with their research only...dont you? All anyone can go by is the Iranians' behavior in the past and that doesn't give me much hope they'll remain in compliance and nobody is going to do a damned thing about their non-compliance.

As far as the sanction relief, they'll never be reinstated once they're lifted because there will be financial involvements with those other countries

Fordow and Arak each had one primary reason that they were on the radar specifically: Fordow was an underground enrichment site, and Arak is a heavy water reactor capable of producing weapons-grade plutonium if they chose to do so. Fordow will be a research center instead of an enrichment site. Arak will become a research reactor incapable of producing plutonium. That addresses our concerns with the two facilities, and allows Iran to not have completely wasted the investment they made in both. I would call that a great example of an effective compromise.

I am not concerned with Iran's past behavior. I would rather see them be granted the opportunity to demonstrate that they will abide by this agreement. What they do with this opportunity is on them. What they will do with this opportunity is unknown to you, me, and everyone else. Based on what I have seen you post on this subject, you think that any agreement with Iran is ultimately pointless, as they will never abide by any such agreement. You certainly have the right to that opinion, and you are not alone in it. I am also wary of Iran, myself. That said, I think engaging Iran directly with diplomacy and moving toward normalizing relations will go further over the long-term toward neutralizing them as a regional threat than our hostility and rhetoric (and Israel's) ever would. Conversely, Iran has now been given the proverbial rope with which to hang themselves.

[AUUSN 823]

Conversely, Iran has now been given the proverbial rope with which to hang themselves.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

prior to the negotiations Obama, himself, firmly stated that both Fordow and Arak would have be closed. They wont be closed and I trust, implicitly, the Iranians with their research only...dont you? All anyone can go by is the Iranians' behavior in the past and that doesn't give me much hope they'll remain in compliance and nobody is going to do a damned thing about their non-compliance.

As far as the sanction relief, they'll never be reinstated once they're lifted because there will be financial involvements with those other countries

Fordow and Arak each had one primary reason that they were on the radar specifically: Fordow was an underground enrichment site, and Arak is a heavy water reactor capable of producing weapons-grade plutonium if they chose to do so. Fordow will be a research center instead of an enrichment site. Arak will become a research reactor incapable of producing plutonium. That addresses our concerns with the two facilities, and allows Iran to not have completely wasted the investment they made in both. I would call that a great example of an effective compromise.

I am not concerned with Iran's past behavior. I would rather see them be granted the opportunity to demonstrate that they will abide by this agreement. What they do with this opportunity is on them. What they will do with this opportunity is unknown to you, me, and everyone else. Based on what I have seen you post on this subject, you think that any agreement with Iran is ultimately pointless, as they will never abide by any such agreement. You certainly have the right to that opinion, and you are not alone in it. I am also wary of Iran, myself. That said, I think engaging Iran directly with diplomacy and moving toward normalizing relations will go further over the long-term toward neutralizing them as a regional threat than our hostility and rhetoric (and Israel's) ever would. Conversely, Iran has now been given the proverbial rope with which to hang themselves.

Precisely. I think we would be better off and, have more support, if we conducted a military operation based on them actually breaking a diplomatic agreement rather than the assumptions and rhetoric of the political right.

[AUUSN 823]

prior to the negotiations Obama, himself, firmly stated that both Fordow and Arak would have be closed. They wont be closed and I trust, implicitly, the Iranians with their research only...dont you? All anyone can go by is the Iranians' behavior in the past and that doesn't give me much hope they'll remain in compliance and nobody is going to do a damned thing about their non-compliance.

As far as the sanction relief, they'll never be reinstated once they're lifted because there will be financial involvements with those other countries

Fordow and Arak each had one primary reason that they were on the radar specifically: Fordow was an underground enrichment site, and Arak is a heavy water reactor capable of producing weapons-grade plutonium if they chose to do so. Fordow will be a research center instead of an enrichment site. Arak will become a research reactor incapable of producing plutonium. That addresses our concerns with the two facilities, and allows Iran to not have completely wasted the investment they made in both. I would call that a great example of an effective compromise.

I am not concerned with Iran's past behavior. I would rather see them be granted the opportunity to demonstrate that they will abide by this agreement. What they do with this opportunity is on them. What they will do with this opportunity is unknown to you, me, and everyone else. Based on what I have seen you post on this subject, you think that any agreement with Iran is ultimately pointless, as they will never abide by any such agreement. You certainly have the right to that opinion, and you are not alone in it. I am also wary of Iran, myself. That said, I think engaging Iran directly with diplomacy and moving toward normalizing relations will go further over the long-term toward neutralizing them as a regional threat than our hostility and rhetoric (and Israel's) ever would. Conversely, Iran has now been given the proverbial rope with which to hang themselves.

Precisely. I think we would be better off and, have more support, if we conducted a military operation based on them actually breaking a diplomatic agreement rather than the assumptions and rhetoric of the political right.

But they want war NOW! Not in ten years. Defense contractors need feeding and they found a lackey like Senator Cotton to feed them.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

prior to the negotiations Obama, himself, firmly stated that both Fordow and Arak would have be closed. They wont be closed and I trust, implicitly, the Iranians with their research only...dont you? All anyone can go by is the Iranians' behavior in the past and that doesn't give me much hope they'll remain in compliance and nobody is going to do a damned thing about their non-compliance.

As far as the sanction relief, they'll never be reinstated once they're lifted because there will be financial involvements with those other countries

Fordow and Arak each had one primary reason that they were on the radar specifically: Fordow was an underground enrichment site, and Arak is a heavy water reactor capable of producing weapons-grade plutonium if they chose to do so. Fordow will be a research center instead of an enrichment site. Arak will become a research reactor incapable of producing plutonium. That addresses our concerns with the two facilities, and allows Iran to not have completely wasted the investment they made in both. I would call that a great example of an effective compromise.

I am not concerned with Iran's past behavior. I would rather see them be granted the opportunity to demonstrate that they will abide by this agreement. What they do with this opportunity is on them. What they will do with this opportunity is unknown to you, me, and everyone else. Based on what I have seen you post on this subject, you think that any agreement with Iran is ultimately pointless, as they will never abide by any such agreement. You certainly have the right to that opinion, and you are not alone in it. I am also wary of Iran, myself. That said, I think engaging Iran directly with diplomacy and moving toward normalizing relations will go further over the long-term toward neutralizing them as a regional threat than our hostility and rhetoric (and Israel's) ever would. Conversely, Iran has now been given the proverbial rope with which to hang themselves.

Precisely. I think we would be better off and, have more support, if we conducted a military operation based on them actually breaking a diplomatic agreement rather than the assumptions and rhetoric of the political right.

But they want war NOW! Not in ten years. Defense contractors need feeding and they found a lackey like Senator Cotton to feed them.

Yes, they can not take a chance on peace. To hell with the casualties, to hell with the debt. We need war and revenue and, we need it NOW!

You want pure and unadulterated capitalism? There you you go, no REAL nationalism, no sense of morality or ethical conduct, the only consideration is next quarter's P & L. One hundred years of continuous war in the ME is perfect!

[cooltigger21 0]

The truth of this deal is it only delays their getting the bomb. Unless and until someone actually intervenes militarily, they will get nukes. Obama just doesn't want it happening while he's president. John Kerry can get his Nobel Prize and after that they don't care about what a president 10-15 years down the road will have to deal with.

[alexava 6,973]

The truth of this deal is it only delays their getting the bomb. Unless and until someone actually intervenes militarily, they will get nukes. Obama just doesn't want it happening while he's president. John Kerry can get his Nobel Prize and after that they don't care about what a president 10-15 years down the road will have to deal with.

i think he absolutely cares what we have to deal with 10-15 years down the road. He is dealing with bad decisions of 10-15 years ago presently.

[cooltigger21 0]

The truth of this deal is it only delays their getting the bomb. Unless and until someone actually intervenes militarily, they will get nukes. Obama just doesn't want it happening while he's president. John Kerry can get his Nobel Prize and after that they don't care about what a president 10-15 years down the road will have to deal with.

i think he absolutely cares what we have to deal with 10-15 years down the road. He is dealing with bad decisions of 10-15 years ago presently.

Just can't let it go can you alex? Do you really think that if we had not done what we did in Iraq that we would not be having these problems with Iran? That's very naive. Obama just simply wants to say he made a deal and if it goes bad then it wasn't his fault. Never mind that it was a bad deal to start with. We'd have an Iraq with chemical weapons and Syria and Iran would still be pursuing their goals. Your idea that we can stay out and then everything will be hunky dory for us is absurd on it's face. I know you just want to let the rest of the world fend for themselves and never do anything for anyone unless it's a direct threat against us. Even then it would have to be a direct attack on us.

All we're doing with this is just kicking the can down the road. We're not stopping their ballistic missile program so when the terms of this expire they can just ramp right up and have everything ready to go in very short order. Since you don't want to use our military to stop them that puts us and the world in a terrible spot.

[quietfan 233]

What I can do is remind you that negotiations usually entail both sides giving up something. That did not happen. None of the requisites for a deal were adhered to. Obama said that Fordow and Arak would have to close..neither will. Instead of using sanctions we capitulated reducing our position of strength. I'll also point out that a so called deal with Iran is probably not worth a lot given the fact that Muslims do not believe they have to honor deals with infidels. Even if we created a 10 year window wherein, as you say, we kick the can down the road, why do you believe Iran wont continue to cheat like the bandits they are? They have persistently reneged and cheated and even thrown IAEA inspectors out of the country when they were close to finding out info Iran didn't want them to have. That we relented on the snap checks almost insures they will continue as they always have.

All Obama is interested in is being able to say , "Iran will not develop a nuclear bomb on my watch." Problem with that is all he is really accomplishing is passing on a bigger problem a year and a half from now to the next POTUS.

I wonder if we'll ever know the actual provisions of this deal? I would have no problem whatsoever with Obama getting credit for an arrangement that was handled above board and in a forthright manner but that's simply not barry's style. That fact alone makes me suspicious of the deal. Bottom line, there is a way to negotiate without giving away every bargaining chip up front but that's the style mashed potato face Bolt Neck and barry seem to prefer.

Anyway, I fully expect Congress to shoot it down as they only need like 1 or 2 more votes to gain a veto proof position.

http://eeas.europa.e...50402_03_en.htm

http://en.wikipedia...._deal_framework

Fordow will be closed as a uranium enrichment facility. That was the point. It will be converted into a "nuclear, physics and technology centre". There will be no fissile material there. Arak will be converted into a research reactor incapable of producing plutonium. That was the point. Their stockpile and enrichment capacity will be reduced. "The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) will be permitted the use of modern technologies and will have enhanced access through agreed procedures, including to clarify past and present issues.

"

Sanctions will not be removed until Iran has been verified to be in compliance with its key nuclear commitments. If they violate the agreement later, then we go back to where we are now, or we bomb them, or we do whatever we choose to do if that happens. Assuming in advance that they are definitely going to violate any agreement is not going to get anyone anywhere productive.

This is, and always was, bigger than Obama and/or Kerry. It was not an agreement reached by negotiations solely between the United States and Iran, while the UK, Germany, France, Russia, and China spent their time in the room playing cards, eating lunch, and drinking coffee.

Come on, Strychnine. You know there's no room for facts in this forum!

[AUDub 11,147]

10 Ways Recent Nuclear Deal with Iran Is Good News

1. This is a victory for the Iranian people and by the Iranian people. I’m glad because we made this happen. We went to the streets and protested. We forced them to let Rouhani be elected. We forced them to accept to deal with the west. We endured all the hardships. We went through fire and ice and it is our victory. I’m reading the deal for like the tenth time. All economic sanctions will be lifted. And with Rouhani’s powerful economic team – who have already reversed the economic disasters – soon Ahmadinejad years will be no more than a nightmare. Now my students will not have to see the bleak and dark years I have seen. Their life will not be defined by trauma and fear. I’m so glad to be alive and witness history. Rouhani acknowledged that in his speech addressing the nation.

2. Yes, this DOES stop Iran from building a nuclear bomb. Only one facility will enrich Uranium. Its purity will never go above 3.7%. Fordo and Arak (suspect facilities) will change functionality. The IAEA will be able to monitor Iran’s actions thoroughly. It will be physically impossible for Iran to build a bomb. The deal also meets the weird demands made by Khamenei. It’s truly win-win, and expertly crafted.

3. Iranian far-right say Iran has given up too much in this deal. Hossein Shariatmadari who’s possibly the most loathsome extremist I know of has said “We gave up the saddled horse and they gave us the torn tether instead”. American and Israeli right-wing says Iran hasn’t given up enough. I wonder how the same text can be interpreted so widely differently, it’s not even a scripture. (Spoiler: the enemies of the deal are lying or very ignorant).

4. This is a deal. Don’t be mistaken by buzzwords like “framework”, “outline”, or “parameters of a deal”. This is a deal. They’re not just calling it that because Khamenei wanted a deal in only one stage and not two, but originally March was supposed to be when the political deal happened and then in July the technical deal. This is the political deal rebranded. It’s much more important. This is a massive victory. And it is a historical.

5. This is a victory for Rouhani and the reformists. Khamenei did not block the deal while he could have, but I sincerely think he’s unhappy and he wouldn’t have if it wasn’t the pressure from the Iranian people. People went into the streets to clebrate the deal. Khamenei had given up already And if anyone but Rouhani was president this would have been very difficult or impossible. Simplistic readings of Iranian policy might not understand this but this truly is Rouhani’s achievement mainly.

6. This is the first step for Rouhani. In a speech addressed to Iranians after the deal, he said that this victory was a vindication of his pragmatic politics, that if we have cold relations with a country we must make it warmer, and if we are enemies with a country we must become friends. While conservatives were all emphatic “this is a nuclear deal and absolutely nothing else”. But Rouhani will push to make rational diplomacy dominant. And he might succeed. This is going to affect the upcoming parliamentary election much to Rouhani’s favor. Also Rouhani will be reelected with like a trillion percent of the votes.

7. The agreement is going to be ratified by the security council. It won’t be between two countries at all. So the congress oes not play a role and it will be internationally binding. If congress refuses to honor the deal USA will be considered a rogue state and since EU won’t coopeate their sanctons will be meaningless anyway. As you can see negotiators are much shrewder than what we all thought. They have tken congress out of equation. The congress can sabotage things until then, if they can get beyond Obama’s veto, but the next president won’t be able to make it null with the strike of a pen. (Sorry, Tom Cotton).

8. Iran and US will accuse each other of lying in the coming days. Truth is this is a win-win for both sides, but also both sides have given up huge parts of what they would ideally want. So Obama and co. will have to shine the turd for Republicans and Iranians for the conservatives, but it won’t mean much, and it’s just the sides interpreting things to their advantage.

9. Even if the deal is defeated in the next coming months, this is still a great development. People will most probably blame either Republicans or Iranian conservatives, but the energy is already injected into the society.

10. This might have very positive effects on human rights issues too. Listen, it’s as simple as this. A stronger Rouhani + more hopeful and energized people = more chances of actual reform through public activism and lobbying from Rouhani.

Overall: I’m happy, I’m hopeful, it was a historic event, and now the tides might turn to Iran’s better future much more possibly.

[homersapien 11,363]

What I can do is remind you that negotiations usually entail both sides giving up something. That did not happen. None of the requisites for a deal were adhered to. Obama said that Fordow and Arak would have to close..neither will. Instead of using sanctions we capitulated reducing our position of strength. I'll also point out that a so called deal with Iran is probably not worth a lot given the fact that Muslims do not believe they have to honor deals with infidels. Even if we created a 10 year window wherein, as you say, we kick the can down the road, why do you believe Iran wont continue to cheat like the bandits they are? They have persistently reneged and cheated and even thrown IAEA inspectors out of the country when they were close to finding out info Iran didn't want them to have. That we relented on the snap checks almost insures they will continue as they always have.

All Obama is interested in is being able to say , "Iran will not develop a nuclear bomb on my watch." Problem with that is all he is really accomplishing is passing on a bigger problem a year and a half from now to the next POTUS.

I wonder if we'll ever know the actual provisions of this deal? I would have no problem whatsoever with Obama getting credit for an arrangement that was handled above board and in a forthright manner but that's simply not barry's style. That fact alone makes me suspicious of the deal. Bottom line, there is a way to negotiate without giving away every bargaining chip up front but that's the style mashed potato face Bolt Neck and barry seem to prefer.

Anyway, I fully expect Congress to shoot it down as they only need like 1 or 2 more votes to gain a veto proof position.

http://eeas.europa.e...50402_03_en.htm

http://en.wikipedia...._deal_framework

Fordow will be closed as a uranium enrichment facility. That was the point. It will be converted into a "nuclear, physics and technology centre". There will be no fissile material there. Arak will be converted into a research reactor incapable of producing plutonium. That was the point. Their stockpile and enrichment capacity will be reduced. "The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) will be permitted the use of modern technologies and will have enhanced access through agreed procedures, including to clarify past and present issues.

"

Sanctions will not be removed until Iran has been verified to be in compliance with its key nuclear commitments. If they violate the agreement later, then we go back to where we are now, or we bomb them, or we do whatever we choose to do if that happens. Assuming in advance that they are definitely going to violate any agreement is not going to get anyone anywhere productive.

This is, and always was, bigger than Obama and/or Kerry. It was not an agreement reached by negotiations solely between the United States and Iran, while the UK, Germany, France, Russia, and China spent their time in the room playing cards, eating lunch, and drinking coffee.

prior to the negotiations Obama, himself, firmly stated that both Fordow and Arak would have be closed. They wont be closed and I trust, implicitly, the Iranians with their research only...dont you? All anyone can go by is the Iranians' behavior in the past and that doesn't give me much hope they'll remain in compliance and nobody is going to do a damned thing about their non-compliance.

As far as the sanction relief, they'll never be reinstated once they're lifted because there will be financial involvements with those other countries

Speaking for myself, I don't trust them at all. Fortunately, this agreement doesn't require our trust. It has verification and monitoring protocols.

[homersapien 11,363]

The truth of this deal is it only delays their getting the bomb. Unless and until someone actually intervenes militarily, they will get nukes. Obama just doesn't want it happening while he's president. John Kerry can get his Nobel Prize and after that they don't care about what a president 10-15 years down the road will have to deal with.

i think he absolutely cares what we have to deal with 10-15 years down the road. He is dealing with bad decisions of 10-15 years ago presently.

Just can't let it go can you alex? Do you really think that if we had not done what we did in Iraq that we would not be having these problems with Iran? That's very naive. Obama just simply wants to say he made a deal and if it goes bad then it wasn't his fault. Never mind that it was a bad deal to start with. We'd have an Iraq with chemical weapons and Syria and Iran would still be pursuing their goals. Your idea that we can stay out and then everything will be hunky dory for us is absurd on it's face. I know you just want to let the rest of the world fend for themselves and never do anything for anyone unless it's a direct threat against us. Even then it would have to be a direct attack on us.

All we're doing with this is just kicking the can down the road. We're not stopping their ballistic missile program so when the terms of this expire they can just ramp right up and have everything ready to go in very short order. Since you don't want to use our military to stop them that puts us and the world in a terrible spot.

Well, at least you've dropped the pretense that you aren't really advocating war instead of an agreement. :-\

[AUUSN 823]

The reason we can negotiate and wait...

[AUUSN 823]

[autigeremt 6,598]

The shield is a tool but it's not 100%. One nuclear detonation is all it takes.

[AUUSN 823]

The shield is a tool but it's not 100%. One nuclear detonation is all it takes.

Really? Signed....

[autigeremt 6,598]

The shield is a tool but it's not 100%. One nuclear detonation is all it takes.

Really? Signed....

Really! Signed reality (things don't always work as planned). Of course, you would know that if you live in a world of reality, and not on some tug.

[quietfan 233]

10 Ways Recent Nuclear Deal with Iran Is Good News

1. This is a victory for the Iranian people and by the Iranian people. I’m glad because we made this happen. We went to the streets and protested. We forced them to let Rouhani be elected. We forced them to accept to deal with the west. We endured all the hardships. We went through fire and ice and it is our victory. I’m reading the deal for like the tenth time. All economic sanctions will be lifted. And with Rouhani’s powerful economic team – who have already reversed the economic disasters – soon Ahmadinejad years will be no more than a nightmare. Now my students will not have to see the bleak and dark years I have seen. Their life will not be defined by trauma and fear. I’m so glad to be alive and witness history. Rouhani acknowledged that in his speech addressing the nation.

2. Yes, this DOES stop Iran from building a nuclear bomb. Only one facility will enrich Uranium. Its purity will never go above 3.7%. Fordo and Arak (suspect facilities) will change functionality. The IAEA will be able to monitor Iran’s actions thoroughly. It will be physically impossible for Iran to build a bomb. The deal also meets the weird demands made by Khamenei. It’s truly win-win, and expertly crafted.

3. Iranian far-right say Iran has given up too much in this deal. Hossein Shariatmadari who’s possibly the most loathsome extremist I know of has said “We gave up the saddled horse and they gave us the torn tether instead”. American and Israeli right-wing says Iran hasn’t given up enough. I wonder how the same text can be interpreted so widely differently, it’s not even a scripture. (Spoiler: the enemies of the deal are lying or very ignorant).

4. This is a deal. Don’t be mistaken by buzzwords like “framework”, “outline”, or “parameters of a deal”. This is a deal. They’re not just calling it that because Khamenei wanted a deal in only one stage and not two, but originally March was supposed to be when the political deal happened and then in July the technical deal. This is the political deal rebranded. It’s much more important. This is a massive victory. And it is a historical.

5. This is a victory for Rouhani and the reformists. Khamenei did not block the deal while he could have, but I sincerely think he’s unhappy and he wouldn’t have if it wasn’t the pressure from the Iranian people. People went into the streets to clebrate the deal. Khamenei had given up already And if anyone but Rouhani was president this would have been very difficult or impossible. Simplistic readings of Iranian policy might not understand this but this truly is Rouhani’s achievement mainly.

6. This is the first step for Rouhani. In a speech addressed to Iranians after the deal, he said that this victory was a vindication of his pragmatic politics, that if we have cold relations with a country we must make it warmer, and if we are enemies with a country we must become friends. While conservatives were all emphatic “this is a nuclear deal and absolutely nothing else”. But Rouhani will push to make rational diplomacy dominant. And he might succeed. This is going to affect the upcoming parliamentary election much to Rouhani’s favor. Also Rouhani will be reelected with like a trillion percent of the votes.

7. The agreement is going to be ratified by the security council. It won’t be between two countries at all. So the congress oes not play a role and it will be internationally binding. If congress refuses to honor the deal USA will be considered a rogue state and since EU won’t coopeate their sanctons will be meaningless anyway. As you can see negotiators are much shrewder than what we all thought. They have tken congress out of equation. The congress can sabotage things until then, if they can get beyond Obama’s veto, but the next president won’t be able to make it null with the strike of a pen. (Sorry, Tom Cotton).

8. Iran and US will accuse each other of lying in the coming days. Truth is this is a win-win for both sides, but also both sides have given up huge parts of what they would ideally want. So Obama and co. will have to shine the turd for Republicans and Iranians for the conservatives, but it won’t mean much, and it’s just the sides interpreting things to their advantage.

9. Even if the deal is defeated in the next coming months, this is still a great development. People will most probably blame either Republicans or Iranian conservatives, but the energy is already injected into the society.

10. This might have very positive effects on human rights issues too. Listen, it’s as simple as this. A stronger Rouhani + more hopeful and energized people = more chances of actual reform through public activism and lobbying from Rouhani.

Overall: I’m happy, I’m hopeful, it was a historic event, and now the tides might turn to Iran’s better future much more possibly.

Great read, Bens. Thanks! Reaffirms my impression of the agreement.

Of course, since it goes against everything in the rightwing "party line", it must all be lies and bull###t, and I am being delusion if not downright treasonous!

[TheBlueVue 177]

10 Ways Recent Nuclear Deal with Iran Is Good News

1. This is a victory for the Iranian people and by the Iranian people. I’m glad because we made this happen. We went to the streets and protested. We forced them to let Rouhani be elected. We forced them to accept to deal with the west. We endured all the hardships. We went through fire and ice and it is our victory. I’m reading the deal for like the tenth time. All economic sanctions will be lifted. And with Rouhani’s powerful economic team – who have already reversed the economic disasters – soon Ahmadinejad years will be no more than a nightmare. Now my students will not have to see the bleak and dark years I have seen. Their life will not be defined by trauma and fear. I’m so glad to be alive and witness history. Rouhani acknowledged that in his speech addressing the nation.

2. Yes, this DOES stop Iran from building a nuclear bomb. Only one facility will enrich Uranium. Its purity will never go above 3.7%. Fordo and Arak (suspect facilities) will change functionality. The IAEA will be able to monitor Iran’s actions thoroughly. It will be physically impossible for Iran to build a bomb. The deal also meets the weird demands made by Khamenei. It’s truly win-win, and expertly crafted.

3. Iranian far-right say Iran has given up too much in this deal. Hossein Shariatmadari who’s possibly the most loathsome extremist I know of has said “We gave up the saddled horse and they gave us the torn tether instead”. American and Israeli right-wing says Iran hasn’t given up enough. I wonder how the same text can be interpreted so widely differently, it’s not even a scripture. (Spoiler: the enemies of the deal are lying or very ignorant).

4. This is a deal. Don’t be mistaken by buzzwords like “framework”, “outline”, or “parameters of a deal”. This is a deal. They’re not just calling it that because Khamenei wanted a deal in only one stage and not two, but originally March was supposed to be when the political deal happened and then in July the technical deal. This is the political deal rebranded. It’s much more important. This is a massive victory. And it is a historical.

5. This is a victory for Rouhani and the reformists. Khamenei did not block the deal while he could have, but I sincerely think he’s unhappy and he wouldn’t have if it wasn’t the pressure from the Iranian people. People went into the streets to clebrate the deal. Khamenei had given up already And if anyone but Rouhani was president this would have been very difficult or impossible. Simplistic readings of Iranian policy might not understand this but this truly is Rouhani’s achievement mainly.

6. This is the first step for Rouhani. In a speech addressed to Iranians after the deal, he said that this victory was a vindication of his pragmatic politics, that if we have cold relations with a country we must make it warmer, and if we are enemies with a country we must become friends. While conservatives were all emphatic “this is a nuclear deal and absolutely nothing else”. But Rouhani will push to make rational diplomacy dominant. And he might succeed. This is going to affect the upcoming parliamentary election much to Rouhani’s favor. Also Rouhani will be reelected with like a trillion percent of the votes.

7. The agreement is going to be ratified by the security council. It won’t be between two countries at all. So the congress oes not play a role and it will be internationally binding. If congress refuses to honor the deal USA will be considered a rogue state and since EU won’t coopeate their sanctons will be meaningless anyway. As you can see negotiators are much shrewder than what we all thought. They have tken congress out of equation. The congress can sabotage things until then, if they can get beyond Obama’s veto, but the next president won’t be able to make it null with the strike of a pen. (Sorry, Tom Cotton).

8. Iran and US will accuse each other of lying in the coming days. Truth is this is a win-win for both sides, but also both sides have given up huge parts of what they would ideally want. So Obama and co. will have to shine the turd for Republicans and Iranians for the conservatives, but it won’t mean much, and it’s just the sides interpreting things to their advantage.

9. Even if the deal is defeated in the next coming months, this is still a great development. People will most probably blame either Republicans or Iranian conservatives, but the energy is already injected into the society.

10. This might have very positive effects on human rights issues too. Listen, it’s as simple as this. A stronger Rouhani + more hopeful and energized people = more chances of actual reform through public activism and lobbying from Rouhani.

Overall: I’m happy, I’m hopeful, it was a historic event, and now the tides might turn to Iran’s better future much more possibly.

Great read, Bens. Thanks! Reaffirms my impression of the agreement.

Of course, since it goes against everything in the rightwing "party line", it must all be lies and bull###t, and I am being delusion if not downright treasonous!

Iran is already craw fishing on their end of the deal and demanding immediate sanction relief or no deal. You boys who are eager to get in bed with the largest state sponsors of terrorism really should be careful what you wish for. Not to worry though - this deal will never fly.....EVER.

The Ayatollah must just be finding out that Obama is a congenital liar.Where the hell has he been...the rest of the world has known for years!

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/ayatollah-khamenei-accuses-wh-lying-being-deceptive-and-having-devilish-intentions_914336.html