RFK, Jr. Reportedly Compares Vaccinations To The Holocaust

[DKW 86 7,419]

RFK, Jr. Reportedly Compares Vaccinations To The Holocaust

“They get the shot, that night they have a fever of a hundred and three, they go to sleep, and three months later their brain is gone,” Kennedy said. “This is a holocaust, what this is doing to our country.”

[AUDub 11,136]

Ugh. Stupid stupid stupid.

[FoundationEagle 637]

That's impressive ignorance

[AUDub 11,136]

Orac dropped some insolence on this today. It's a long running series. Last time I quoted him was during the Rand Paul discussion a few months back.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/04/09/the-annals-of-im-not-antivaccine-part-15-robert-f-kennedy-jr-and-the-vaccine-associated-holocaust/

Later today, I’ll be on my way to New York City to take part in the Science-Based Medicine portion of NECSS. I’m very much looking forward to it, not the least because I haven’t been to New York in five years but even more so because I look forward to meeting up with the rest of the SBM crew and those interested in science and skepticism and trying, in my small way, to impart some little bit of what I’ve learned over the years about quackery, pseudoscience, and how to counter them. As a result, blogging might be more sporadic than usual for a few days. I mean, I haven’t even quite finished my talk yet, which is why I’m thankful for plane rides. Let’s just say that right now my talk is like my blog posts and as a result needs some serious pruning if I’m to finish it within the allotted time in a comprehensible manner.

In the meantime, there’s a little tidbit that I can’t help but comment on briefly. I’ve pointed out time and time again how antivaccine activists resent being called “antivaccine.” They will draw themselves up (metaphorically speaking if online) in a self-righteous fury and retort, “I’m not ‘antivaccine.’ I’m a vaccine safety advocate. I’m pro-safe vaccine!” It’s a retort that goes back to Jenny McCarthy in 2008 and by others even before, although it was Jenny McCarthy’s co-optation of that particular technique of denial that first brought it to my attention. It seems so long ago!

Of course, it’s a lie. The lie is revealed rather easily just by observing a type of comparison that antivaccinationists like to use not infrequently when they get a bit worked up. I’ve documented antivaccine activists comparing vaccination and their fantasy of “vaccine-induced autism” to everything from human trafficking, to rape, the Titanic, Nazi-ism, and, of course the Holocaust. In fact, comparisons to the Holocaust seem to be a favorite, complete with mentions of Josef Mengele, the infamous Nazi physician who carried out horrific medical experiments on prisoners at Auschwitz.

Neuses Volk was a mass-market, illustrated magazine aimed at a wide audience as the monthly publication of the Office of Racial Policy in Nazi Germany. It was dedicated to the “excellence” of the Aryan race and the “deficiencies” of Jews, Poles, and other groups and published many articles defending eugenic sterilization, often juxtaposing photos of mentally incapacitated children with those of healthy children.

I bring this up because a certain antivaccine crank, someone I’ve been writing about just shy of a decade now has over the last several months been trying to deny that he’s antivaccine, even going so far as to call himself “fiercely pro-vaccine” back in September. Yes, I’m referring to Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., one of the crankiest of antivaccine cranks out there. RFK, Jr. is utterly convinced, against all evidence otherwise, that the mercury-containing preservative thimerosal that used to be in childhood vaccines in the US until around the end of 2001, when it was removed from nearly all of them, is a major cause of the “autism epidemic,” as he spreads conspiracy theories about the CDC so obviously nonsensical that I almost feel embarrassed for him. Almost. His arguments in general are so full of crankery that it’s hard not to feel contempt for him.

So what’s he up to this time? Well, lately, RFK, Jr. has been doing his utmost to assist antivaccine advocates and “health freedom” activists to defeat SB277 in California. SB277, as you might recall, is a bill introduced by State Senators Richard Pan and Ben Allen that would repeal the personal belief exemption to school vaccine mandates. Seemingly every major antivaccine activist in the country has been invading California to try to defeat the bill, including, of course, RFK, Jr. had to be part of the action, while promoting his antivaccine movie Trace Amounts.

Here’s a news account:

But some parents fear information about the hazards of vaccines has been suppressed, largely because of what they call the pharmaceutical industry’s influence over health officials. Many parents believe their children have been damaged by vaccines. When Kennedy asked the crowd of a few hundred viewers how many parents had a child injured by vaccines, numerous hands went up.

“They get the shot, that night they have a fever of a hundred and three, they go to sleep, and three months later their brain is gone,” Kennedy said. “This is a holocaust, what this is doing to our country.”

Look at the contempt for autistic children (and, let’s be clear, this is about the myth that vaccines cause autism). Look at what RFK, Jr. says: “Their brain is gone.” In other words, they were human, but vaccines made them somehow less than human because what makes them who they are, their brains, is gone. RFK, Jr.’s reference to the Holocaust is unintentionally appropriate, but not in the way RFK, Jr. meant it. Such an attitude (“their brain is gone”) would not have been out of place in, ironically enough given all the Nazi analogies that antivaccinationists like to make, Nazi Germany. After all, one of the slogans used by Nazis to justify the T4 euthanasia program in which "mental defectives” were “euthanized” was “Lebensunwertes leben,” or “life unworthy of life.”

In all fairness, it’s obvious that RFK, Jr. isn’t advocating killing autistics. He is, however, expressing attitudes that allowed the T4 euthanasia program to be tolerated, even supported, by German civilians. Vaccines took away their brains! It’s a meme we hear frequently from antivaccine parents who believe vaccines caused their child’s autism. Their child was perfectly normal until vaccines ruined him! Vaccines took their “real” child away. This sort of thinking is also used as justification for “autism biomed” quackery that seeks to “recover” the child. The very word “recover” implies finding something that was lost, as though the autistic child is not the parents’ real child but the real child can be “recovered” with the appropriate quack treatments.

What I’d really love to see sometime in the near future would be for a journalist interviewing RFK, Jr. to answer his claim that he is “fiercely pro-vaccine” by asking him, “If that’s the case, then why did you refer to vaccines causing a high fever that takes away a child’s brain and then use the word ‘holocaust’ to describe it?”

That sure sounds antivaccine to me.

And SB 277? It made it through the California Senate Health Committee by a vote of 6-2. It still has a long way to go, but at least it didn’t die in committee.

[FoundationEagle 637]

Vaccines may have some health related issues that we aren't aware of, but the leading cause of increasing Autism is increasing testing and awareness. 20 years ago most mild autistics would have been labeled as a little slow

[cptau 169]

The country is better off ignoring this Kennedy and the rest of them too. Time to move on.

[quietfan 233]

That's impressive ignorance

I fully agree! RFK, Jr. sounds like an idiot in this comment, if only for his anti-vax stance if not his ridiculous hyperbole.

But I must point out to everyone that rhetorically there is a difference in comparing something to "a holocaust" vs "The Holocaust". Holocaust was a noun in the English language long before Nazi Germany, and as far as I know there is no standard definition of how large a tragedy has to be to constitute a 'holocaust'.

[alexava 6,973]

Vaccines may have some health related issues that we aren't aware of, but the leading cause of increasing Autism is increasing testing and awareness. 20 years ago most mild autistics would have been labeled as a little slow

totally disagree.

[AUDub 11,136]

That's impressive ignorance

I fully agree! RFK, Jr. sounds like an idiot in this comment, if only for his anti-vax stance if not his ridiculous hyperbole.

But I must point out to everyone that rhetorically there is a difference in comparing something to "a holocaust" vs "The Holocaust". Holocaust was a noun in the English language long before Nazi Germany, and as far as I know there is no standard definition of how large a tragedy has to be to constitute a 'holocaust'.

Given that he has confirmed Godwin's Law on the matter in the past, there's little doubt in my mind that he's likening it to The Holocaust. This was from 2013:

To my mind this is like the Nazi death camps.

[AUDub 11,136]

Vaccines may have some health related issues that we aren't aware of, but the leading cause of increasing Autism is increasing testing and awareness. 20 years ago most mild autistics would have been labeled as a little slow

totally disagree.

With which part? He's pretty dead on about the testing and awareness portion.

[DKW 86 7,419]

RFK jr is why i had to break ties with the Sierra Club a long while back. He is truly nutz in a Glenn Beck kind of way.

it would take me half an hour to explain it all, but according RFK jr, the USN was the sole reason whales ever beached themselves and it was all due to a weapon system we hardly, if ever, deployed and almost never used, when it was deployed.

[quietfan 233]

That's impressive ignorance

I fully agree! RFK, Jr. sounds like an idiot in this comment, if only for his anti-vax stance if not his ridiculous hyperbole.

But I must point out to everyone that rhetorically there is a difference in comparing something to "a holocaust" vs "The Holocaust". Holocaust was a noun in the English language long before Nazi Germany, and as far as I know there is no standard definition of how large a tragedy has to be to constitute a 'holocaust'.

Given that he has confirmed Godwin's Law on the matter in the past, there's little doubt in my mind that he's likening it to The Holocaust. This was from 2013:

To my mind this is like the Nazi death camps.

You could well be correct, Bens. I haven't followed him enough to venture an opinion.

I was really only talking about the use of the word "holocaust" generically, by any writer/speaker. It's a too useful/expressive word to have it become restricted to "The Holocaust". It already saddens me that violent extremists have commandeered and ruined so many other powerful and aesthetically striking images: The swastika was a interesting design element in many ancient cultures, often associated with good fortune and positive religious meaning, until Hitler stole it. A flaming cross could be a vary powerful image in mainstream Christianity if the KKK hadn't corrupted it. (I'm a United Methodist, and I clearly recall when the UMC adopted the symbol of a cross with a flame symbolizing the Holy Spirit that some expressed concern that it was too much like the KKK symbol.) The Celtic Cross was another beautiful and striking Christian symbol until adopted by neo-Nazis and white supremacist groups, ditto the Templar cross and Templar imagery. I don't want to lose the noun "holocaust" to the Dark Side or have it become associated solely with Hitler's Holocaust.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

Blah, I have been bar hopping in Auburn.But as an individual that has done the Public Health classes through the vet school at Auburn, which involves profs thtat have personally researched this stuff, anti-vaccination is stupid.

You may now classify me as left or right cause being your own person is not allowed on this board and there is no middle. Thank you and good night!

[DKW 86 7,419]

Blah, I have been bar hopping in Auburn.But as an individual that has done the Public Health classes through the vet school at Auburn, which involves profs thtat have personally researched this stuff, anti-vaccination is stupid.

You may now classify me as left or right cause being your own person is not allowed on this board and there is no middle. Thank you and good night!

Indies Rule!

[AUTUmike 79]

Vaccines may have some health related issues that we aren't aware of, but the leading cause of increasing Autism is increasing testing and awareness. 20 years ago most mild autistics would have been labeled as a little slow

totally disagree.

With which part? He's pretty dead on about the testing and awareness portion.

I agree. Its similar to the increase in kids with A.D.D. and soldiers with PTSD nowadays. Kids didn't just lose their ability to focus and soldiers didn't just all of a sudden become less mentally stable (broadly speaking). The rise is clearly due to increased awareness and testing.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Democrats are so sciency !

[AUDub 11,136]

Democrats are so sciency !

Started a thread earlier this week about the scientific illiteracy of the left.

[autigeremt 6,589]

Science is a great thing...but it also created the Nuclear Bomb and helped to morph several strains of bacteria.

Nothing wrong with vaccines. We live with risks everyday, but I do believe in the freedoms we have (or had) and choice is one of them in its basic form.

[alexava 6,973]

Vaccines may have some health related issues that we aren't aware of, but the leading cause of increasing Autism is increasing testing and awareness. 20 years ago most mild autistics would have been labeled as a little slow

totally disagree.

With which part? He's pretty dead on about the testing and awareness portion.

"a little slow" does not equal autistic . This is different. I have 4 pretty close friends who have autistic children. Something is causing this. Vaccine has not been eliminated as a possibility as some would have you think.

[AUDub 11,136]

"a little slow" does not equal autistic . This is different. I have 4 pretty close friends who have autistic children. Something is causing this. Vaccine has not been eliminated as a possibility as some would have you think.

Nobody made that claim. The claim was that many folks that would be diagnosed as autistic today would have been simply considered slow a few decades ago. There's no question it is diagnosed more frequently now.

Something is causing this. Vaccine has not been eliminated as a possibility as some would have you think.

There is no evidence of any sort of causal link between vaccines and autism. None. Zero.

Vaccine denialism is one of my pet peeves. And by pet peeves I mean something that makes my blood absolutely boil.

[alexava 6,973]

"a little slow" does not equal autistic . This is different. I have 4 pretty close friends who have autistic children. Something is causing this. Vaccine has not been eliminated as a possibility as some would have you think.

Nobody made that claim. The claim was that folks that would be diagnosed as mildly autistic today would have been simply considered slow a few decades ago. There's no question it is diagnosed more frequently now.

Something is causing this. Vaccine has not been eliminated as a possibility as some would have you think.

There is no evidence of any sort of causal link between vaccines and autism. None. Zero.

Vaccine denialism is one of my pet peeves. And by pet peeves I mean something that makes my blood absolutely boil.

links on the way.

[AUDub 11,136]

links on the way.

Thank you. Take your time.

[AUDub 11,136]

Science is a great thing...but it also created the Nuclear Bomb and helped to morph several strains of bacteria.

Science isn't some monolithic object or organization like you have characterized it. It is merely a tool to acquire knowledge.

Without science, your day to day life would be very different. That car you drive? Science. That computer you typed this on? Science. The place you live? Science. The food you eat when you're hungry. The medicine you take when you don't feel well. Etcetera. Etcetera. Ad nauseum.

Nothing wrong with vaccines. We live with risks everyday, but I do believe in the freedoms we have (or had) and choice is one of them in its basic form.

What about when your choice endangers others? Vulnerable people like the very young, elderly and the ill. That Disneyland outbreak would not have happened if people weren't ignorant of the consequences of their choices.

[TheBlueVue 177]

Science is a great thing...but it also created the Nuclear Bomb and helped to morph several strains of bacteria.

It isn't some monolithic object or organization like you characterize it. It is merely a tool to acquire knowledge.

Without science, your day to day life would be very different. That car you drive? Science. That computer you typed this on? Science. The place you live? Science. The food you eat when you're hungry. The medicine you take when you don't feel well. Etcetera. Etcetera. Ad nauseum.

Nothing wrong with vaccines. We live with risks everyday, but I do believe in the freedoms we have (or had) and choice is one of them in its basic form.

Wha about when your choice endangers others? Vulnerable people like the very young, elderly and the ill. That Disneyland outbreak would not have happened if people weren't ignorant of the consequences of their choices.

That Disneyland outbreak happened because they had recently had thousands of impoverished 3rd world children aka illegal aliens from Central America there as a result of Obama's open borders policy and his attendant pandering to their every whim. What about a country's President whose policies are endangering its citizens?

[DKW 86 7,419]

Threads like this depress me sometimes...