The 'Southern Avenger' Repents: I Was Wrong About The Confederate Flag

[Weagle1787 574]

I debated whether to post this in the other thread, and finally decided it was too good to not stand on its own. For those who don't know, Jack Hunter is a born and bred Charlestonian who got his start in politics as a local shock jock who praised the Confederacy. I feel like there's something each of us can glean from the story of his awakening, myself included. Spend more time making the case for what you believe, rather than tearing down those who do not.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/22/the-southern-avenger-repents-i-was-wrong-about-the-confederate-flag.html

[TitanTiger 17,613]

This is the part that cinches it:

Imagine your great-grandfather was a slave. Imagine your great-grandfather was lynched. Imagine your grandfather was forced to drink from a separate fountain. Imagine your father or mother was murdered by a deranged man with the Confederate flag all over his website.

Imagine these kinds of horrors were your American heritage. Imagine every time you saw a Confederate flag it reminded you of this.

Now imagine being told you don’t understand what the flag “really” means.

It’s an insult.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

I understand. I feel the same way when I see a pic of Jane Fonda or anything about her.

[TitanTiger 17,613]

[alexava 6,893]

:rolleyes:/>

+ 1

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Add Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, et. al, to the "roll eyes" list.

[AUUSN 823]

I understand. I feel the same way when I see a pic of Jane Fonda or anything about her.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot...

[DKW 86 6,575]

+ 1

+2

[AURaptor 1,113]

So, for those who grew up never knowing of separate drinking fountains, Jim Crow laws, never even had a ancestor fight for or against in the South, you're telling those folks that they are haters ? Even if they aren't racist, don't associate with those who are, and can't re-write history and undo slavery, as much as they'd like to, these folks are simply told to suck it up, do as you're told, and reject a symbol which only meant positive things for the South, in their eyes, in terms of culture and setting itself apart from the rest of our nation ?

And yes, there's a reason why folks come down here to the South, stay, and don't go back up north. Lots of reasons. But apparently anything reminding us of the Old South ( and sorry if I sound like a member of KA, I'm not ) must be scrubbed because of some dubious claims that a few folks FEEL a certain way about a certain flag. 150 years after the war ended.

I'm sorry, but even if half of what the PC crowd says is right, being told that they MUST do something , or that showing respect and honor for what's good with the South , that's only going to perpetuate the rebellious attitudes which set the very same folks apart in the first place.

I have to think here's a better way than to shame folks into submission, for crimes and attitudes which aren't even theirs, to do something they seem as unnecessary.

It comes off as there being no middle ground. You tell this group what to do, or else.

And why? Because one loner monster had delusions of grandeur and did an unspeakable crime ? What the hell does he have to do w/ the Confederate flag ?

The same argument could be made for the US flag, but I don't see any national forums or movements to take that down. Nor should there be.

So that's all it takes. A heap of misplaced guilt, and voila. History is erased.

[alexava 6,893]

So, for those who grew up never knowing of separate drinking fountains, Jim Crow laws, never even had a ancestor fight for or against in the South, you're telling those folks that they are haters ? Even if they aren't racist, don't associate with those who are, and can't re-write history and undo slavery, as much as they'd like to, these folks are simply told to suck it up, do as you're told, and reject a symbol which only meant positive things for the South, in their eyes, in terms of culture and setting itself apart from the rest of our nation ?

And yes, there's a reason why folks come down here to the South, stay, and don't go back up north. Lots of reasons. But apparently anything reminding us of the Old South ( and sorry if I sound like a member of KA, I'm not ) must be scrubbed because of some dubious claims that a few folks FEEL a certain way about a certain flag. 150 years after the war ended.

I'm sorry, but even if half of what the PC crowd says is right, being told that they MUST do something , or that showing respect and honor for what's good with the South , that's only going to perpetuate the rebellious attitudes which set the very same folks apart in the first place.

I have to think here's a better way than to shame folks into submission, for crimes and attitudes which aren't even theirs, to do something they seem as unnecessary.

It comes off as there being no middle ground. You tell this group what to do, or else.

And why? Because one loner monster had delusions of grandeur and did an unspeakable crime ? What the hell does he have to do w/ the Confederate flag ?

The same argument could be made for the US flag, but I don't see any national forums or movements to take that down. Nor should there be.

So that's all it takes. A heap of misplaced guilt, and voila. History is erased.

how often do you visit the state house in south Carolina? That is the only flag in question i am aware of. You may fly yours as you wish. You may boycott walmart for not selling it. No history is erased. It is where it belongs,in museums. Progress was made.

[AURaptor 1,113]

how often do you visit the state house in south Carolina? That is the only flag in question i am aware of. You may fly yours as you wish. You may boycott walmart for not selling it. No history is erased. It is where it belongs,in museums. Progress was made.

Can't say I've ever been to the state house. And it's not the only flag in question. As noted, Wal-Mart is ceasing to stop selling anything related to the Confederate flag. So there's that too.

Progress was made ? Really? Simply by uttering that phrase, that makes it so ? Fine. Erase it from history. Anything else we can take away from Southerners while we're at it ? Or is JUST that going to do it.

Maybe stop using the word " Dixie " too, while we're at it. It's " offensive " . Conjures up images of cotton plantations and lynchings and such. Rename 'Dixie Cups " something more appropriate. That X in the name sure does look a hell of a lot like the symbol for a rebel flag, don't it ?

We don't need that sort around here no more.

[jenn4AU 24]

I sure hope Stone Mountain isn't the next target. But it is always something else.

[AURaptor 1,113]

I sure hope Stone Mountain isn't the next target. But it is always something else.

It absolutely is. There's already been calls by some in that same camp to bring down the Confederate flag to blast off, Taliban style, the carvings on Stone Mountain.

At this rate, I give it 10-20 years before it's demolished. Maybe sooner.

[TitanTiger 17,613]

So, for those who grew up never knowing of separate drinking fountains, Jim Crow laws, never even had a ancestor fight for or against in the South, you're telling those folks that they are haters ? Even if they aren't racist, don't associate with those who are, and can't re-write history and undo slavery, as much as they'd like to, these folks are simply told to suck it up, do as you're told, and reject a symbol which only meant positive things for the South, in their eyes, in terms of culture and setting itself apart from the rest of our nation ?

It never meant only positive things for the South. It was always tangled up in white superiority, slavery, and later racial hatred, Jim Crow and segregation. You can't re-write history, you are right. That means you can't excise the bad parts and act like only the good parts you're fond of matter.

And yes, there's a reason why folks come down here to the South, stay, and don't go back up north. Lots of reasons. But apparently anything reminding us of the Old South ( and sorry if I sound like a member of KA, I'm not ) must be scrubbed because of some dubious claims that a few folks FEEL a certain way about a certain flag. 150 years after the war ended.

They don't come because of the Confederate battle flag. They come because the people are generally nicer, the winters are more temperate, the cost of living is lower, the pace of life is a bit more leisurely and so on.

I'm sorry, but even if half of what the PC crowd says is right, being told that they MUST do something , or that showing respect and honor for what's good with the South , that's only going to perpetuate the rebellious attitudes which set the very same folks apart in the first place.

Yep. Selfish idiots don't like being told anything they wish to do is wrong, hurtful or should be set aside out of consideration for others.

I have to think here's a better way than to shame folks into submission, for crimes and attitudes which aren't even theirs, to do something they seem as unnecessary.

It comes off as there being no middle ground. You tell this group what to do, or else.

And why? Because one loner monster had delusions of grandeur and did an unspeakable crime ? What the hell does he have to do w/ the Confederate flag ?

The same argument could be made for the US flag, but I don't see any national forums or movements to take that down. Nor should there be.

So that's all it takes. A heap of misplaced guilt, and voila. History is erased.

History isn't being erased. If anything it's history being acknowledged in its fullness. Not ignoring or pretending that what that flag stood for and came to stand for in years after the Civil War through the Civil Rights Era didn't exist and that it only means "pride" or "heritage", but that it has always meant at various times things like oppression, slavery, misguided priorities, white supremacy, segregation, thumbing our noses at integration and civil rights, Jim Crow - it's all tied together. You can't wash it free of those things.

The Confederacy was a country that ultimately was built on a faulty premise, that found itself opposing God himself and rightly lost a war whose main result would have been the preservation and promulgation of slavery in the US. While some elements or individuals might have been good or redeemable, the overall premise is not. It is a thing to be ashamed of and to be separated from legitimate pride of region, manners and customs we have as Southerners. The flag cannot be redeemed. And it this was not merely the result of one lone monster's actions. People have seen this and understood it for a long time. Even Coach Tuberville understood it when he called for Ole Miss students and fans to ditch the waving of that flag in the stands. It was understood when various states removed Confederate elements from their state flags the last 20 years. It was understood when South Carolina, Alabama and others removed it from flying on their capital domes. It's just that this incident has again shined the light on the issue and it has galvanized support even from those who once felt it was merely "heritage" or "history."

Well, history can be told in museums and other historical venues.

[alexava 6,893]

how often do you visit the state house in south Carolina? That is the only flag in question i am aware of. You may fly yours as you wish. You may boycott walmart for not selling it. No history is erased. It is where it belongs,in museums. Progress was made.

Can't say I've ever been to the state house. And it's not the only flag in question. As noted, Wal-Mart is ceasing to stop selling anything related to the Confederate flag. So there's that too.

Progress was made ? Really? Simply by uttering that phrase, that makes it so ? Fine. Erase it from history. Anything else we can take away from Southerners while we're at it ? Or is JUST that going to do it.

Maybe stop using the word " Dixie " too, while we're at it. It's " offensive " . Conjures up images of cotton plantations and lynchings and such. Rename 'Dixie Cups " something more appropriate. That X in the name sure does look a hell of a lot like the symbol for a rebel flag, don't it ?

We don't need that sort around here no more.

walmart chose to halt sales. Hell they are not far from slave owners themselves.we all still have freedom to express hate and intimidation. The state government did just that in 1961. It's time to change that. That is your progress.You refuse to see the issue. I think you refuse to because i don't think you are that stupid.i meant that as a compliment.

[DKW 86 6,575]

http://thoughtcatalog.com/daniel-hayes/2015/06/facts-about-the-confederate-flag/

It never was "The Confederate Flag." It isnt about history. It is about racism and White Supremacy. What we call TCF was never actually used by the Confederacy. The flag was popularized much later on by KKK and other orgs. Those who claim it is historically significant are wrong. They do not know their history. Just crazy how people are so caught up in culture they really dont know anything.

[Weegle777 63]

All comes down to this one question:

Do you love your neighbor as yourself?

If your neighbor is hurt by it and it brings them pain, and you still see fit to stick it in their face to cause them more pain, you aren't much of a human being that cares about his fellow man.

[AURaptor 1,113]

DKW - 3/4 of those things are fake. 1 isn't.

alexava - so that's it ? Those who don't agree simply refuse to see the issue ?

we all still have freedom to express hate and intimidation.

Only I don't agree that most of those who display the flag in any way have a desire to express hate or intimidation.

[AURaptor 1,113]

It never meant only positive things for the South. It was always tangled up in white superiority, slavery, and later racial hatred, Jim Crow and segregation. You can't re-write history, you are right. That means you can't excise the bad parts and act like only the good parts you're fond of matter.

Naw. You're just choosing to not see the issue.

They come because the people are generally nicer, the winters are more temperate, the cost of living is lower, the pace of life is a bit more leisurely and so on.

Yes, weather, and also because of the Southern hospitality. It's a real thing. Or was. Not sure how long it'll remain that way.

Grits and ice tea may soon be on the way out too.

[alexava 6,893]

DKW - 3/4 of those things are fake. 1 isn't.

alexava - so that's it ? Those who don't agree simply refuse to see the issue ?

we all still have freedom to express hate and intimidation.

Only I don't agree that most of those who display the flag in any way have a desire to express hate or intimidation.

that is about 80% of all rebel flags i have ever seen. The rest were ole miss fans.

Does the fact that it was raised on the state lawn in 1961 not tell you something?

[AURaptor 1,113]

DKW - 3/4 of those things are fake. 1 isn't.

alexava - so that's it ? Those who don't agree simply refuse to see the issue ?

we all still have freedom to express hate and intimidation.

Only I don't agree that most of those who display the flag in any way have a desire to express hate or intimidation.

that is about 80% of all rebel flags i have ever seen. The rest were ole miss fans.

Does the fact that it was raised on the state lawn in 1961 not tell you something?

80% ? Maybe you and I travel in different sorts of circles.

And yes, it tells me that some folks don't like being told what to do, even when it's the right thing to do . I think there are better ways to get cooperation and unity than do as we say, or you're a hateful racist and we'll make you do it anyways.

[TitanTiger 17,613]

No one likes to be told they are in the wrong on something. But the appeals to take down this flag or ask that people on an individual level stop flying it have not been "you're a hateful racist." They have been appeals to common decency - that regardless of what that flag means to you, it is inextricably tangled up in the Confederacy and all it stood for, the KKK and white supremacy, segregation and Jim Crow. That history renders it little more than a symbol of hurt and subjugation to our black friends and neighbors. It will simply never be seen as "heritage" to them. So we should at least remove it from publicly owned spaces like statehouse grounds. But furthermore, rather than outlawing it and "making your do it anyways", the appeal is that everyone, as a person of goodwill that cares about someone other than themselves should want to stop displaying it because of these things.

But go on huffing a bunch of hyperbolic nonsense that few, if any, are actually saying in their renewed efforts to point out the problems with this symbol.

[AURaptor 1,113]

Being told " we still have the freedom to hate and intimidate " doesn't sound too much like an appeal to common decency.

[TitanTiger 17,613]

Being told " we still have the freedom to hate and intimidate " doesn't sound too much like an appeal to common decency.

That has not been the primary reasoning or basis of appeal.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

DKW....you are swallowing elephants and choking on gnats.... -1

There were several flags of the Confederacy. Do a little homework.

http://www.moc.org/c...ags-confederacy

Most people spouting off here wouldn't even recognize some of them. I have a few of them. Is it only the battle flag that is taboo? I could fly the Confederate gov't flag net door to you and you probably wouldn't recognize it.

We protect traitors like Fonda and Bergdahl but get all riled up about a flag. As Dr. Carson says, you can get rid of all the Confederate flags that exist and it won't change a thing. Those offended will just find something else to complain about. I will make a deal.......get Sharpton and Jackson to stop their race business and I will never fly the flag again, not even on Lee's b'day.