The 'Southern Avenger' Repents: I Was Wrong About The Confederate Flag

[AUUSN 823]

Something I have been thinking about quite a bit over the last 24 hours... If all those that hold the "heritage" part of the flag so dear would have stepped up long ago and kept it from being co-opted by hate groups and morons maybe this wouldn't be as big an issue. It's similar to the call for "good Muslims" to stand up against the "bad Muslims" and take their religion back, no?

We've had our differences of opinion but man do I give this post two thumbs up!

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

Something I have been thinking about quite a bit over the last 24 hours... If all those that hold the "heritage" part of the flag so dear would have stepped up long ago and kept it from being co-opted by hate groups and morons maybe this wouldn't be as big an issue. It's similar to the call for "good Muslims" to stand up against the "bad Muslims" and take their religion back, no?

So 1 lone crazy racist does something and it's the same exact thing as whole groups of radical muslims doing something.

If this were a group act, like the KKK, you'd make a much better point.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Something I have been thinking about quite a bit over the last 24 hours... If all those that hold the "heritage" part of the flag so dear would have stepped up long ago and kept it from being co-opted by hate groups and morons maybe this wouldn't be as big an issue. It's similar to the call for "good Muslims" to stand up against the "bad Muslims" and take their religion back, no?

So 1 lone crazy racist does something and it's the same exact thing as whole groups of radical muslims doing something.

If this were a group act, like the KKK, you'd make a much better point.

The crazy racist merely brought it back to the forefront. The group acts by the KKK, segregationists and others already made his point.

[MDM4AU 331]

Something I have been thinking about quite a bit over the last 24 hours... If all those that hold the "heritage" part of the flag so dear would have stepped up long ago and kept it from being co-opted by hate groups and morons maybe this wouldn't be as big an issue. It's similar to the call for "good Muslims" to stand up against the "bad Muslims" and take their religion back, no?

So 1 lone crazy racist does something and it's the same exact thing as whole groups of radical muslims doing something.

If this were a group act, like the KKK, you'd make a much better point.

You clearly miss my point. You miss THE point. If you think it's about "1 lone crazy racist" you are a hopeless cause.

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

Quite frankly I don't have a problem with taking down the Confederate flag from government buildings. But my real question would be where does it end?

Will confederate statues be taken down next? There was a black attorney in Union Springs, Alabama who took small confederate flags off the graves of soldier's who's family members had put there to honor their deceased relatives. The guy even took pictures while he did it. Yet a lot of black folks agreed with what that attorney did.

http://www.foxcaroli...rks-controversy

Yet you have folks that want to honor Michael Brown with a plaque in Ferguson. Yet those same folks would proabably be the same one's that would want to remove flags from graves.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

The fact that there may be future debates over where it possibly could be appropriate to display shouldn't stop us from addressing the places where it obviously should not be displayed.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

That's negative reasoning IMHO. Kind of like sticking your head in the sand to avoid the bigger picture. predict you won't agree

[cole256 17,042]

I understand. I feel the same way when I see a pic of Jane Fonda or anything about her.

LOL. Smh.

[WarTim 3,456]

DKW....you are swallowing elephants and choking on gnats.... -1

There were several flags of the Confederacy. Do a little homework.

http://www.moc.org/c...ags-confederacy

Most people spouting off here wouldn't even recognize some of them. I have a few of them. Is it only the battle flag that is taboo? I could fly the Confederate gov't flag net door to you and you probably wouldn't recognize it.

We protect traitors like Fonda and Bergdahl but get all riled up about a flag. As Dr. Carson says, you can get rid of all the Confederate flags that exist and it won't change a thing. Those offended will just find something else to complain about. I will make a deal.......get Sharpton and Jackson to stop their race business and I will never fly the flag again, not even on Lee's b'day.

hate filled people hate. Removing a flag makes zero difference...

[TitanTiger 20,472]

That's negative reasoning IMHO. Kind of like sticking your head in the sand to avoid the bigger picture. predict you won't agree

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say. My only point is, the fact that it might cause other displays of it to be questioned doesn't mean we shouldn't deal with the fact that it obviously has no place on state grounds.

[Weegle777 78]

And so it begins:

http://www.abc3340.com/story/29387962/outcast-voters-league-calls-for-removal-of-confederate-soldiers-sailors-monument-in-linn-park

Outcast Voters League calls for removal of Linn Park's Confedera - ABC 33/40 - Birmingham News, Weather, Sports

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Outcast Voters League calls for removal of Linn Park's Confederate soldiers & sailors monument

Posted: Jun 23, 2015 11:50 AM CDT

Updated: Jun 23, 2015 1:30 PM CDT

By Sheri FalkCONNECT

The President of the Outcast Voters League is calling for the removal of the Confederate Soldiers & Sailors Monument at Linn Park.

Frank James Mathews will hold a news conference Tuesday afternoon in front of the monument to voice his concerns.

"I first made this point 10 years ago," said Mathews. "Now, I will be revisiting the removal of this confederate monument from Linn Park. The monument has swords, guns and quotes from Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America. This monument was erected in Linn Park and absolutely had nothing to do with Birmingham, AL. The guns, swords and quotes on the confederate monument are more offensive to me than the stars and bars on the confederate flag."

Mathews plans to attend the next city council meeting and ask Mayor William Bell and council members to remove the confederate monument that was erected and dedicated in Linn Park on April 26, 1905.

"I'm a lifelong of Jefferson County/Birmingham Alabama. And as a tax-paying citizen in Birmingham and Jefferson County, I think that the monument that was dedicated by the Pelham Chapter No. 67 United Daughters of the Confederacy should be removed from Linn Park and sent to them in Pelham Alabama. They erected this monstrosity monster and they need to remove it!!"

[aujeff11 6,243]

Something I have been thinking about quite a bit over the last 24 hours... If all those that hold the "heritage" part of the flag so dear would have stepped up long ago and kept it from being co-opted by hate groups and morons maybe this wouldn't be as big an issue. It's similar to the call for "good Muslims" to stand up against the "bad Muslims" and take their religion back, no?

Obviously the meaning behind the flag has been twisted and perverted but others that still deem the flag for its southern heritage should be able to wear it without their character being called into question. Nobody is asking the good Muslims to choose another religion merely because some "bad" Muslims are corrupting the religion.

[Weegle777 78]

Devil's Advocate Question:

The call is for the removal of the CF because it is a reminder of a bad time when the flag was used as a symbol of oppression.

Why have a monument depicting black children getting attacked by dogs in the 1960's?

Isn't that a reminder of a very bad time in history?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Great point jeff. And what about those offended buy burka wearing women Muslims in America?

Also a great point by you Weegs.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Devil's Advocate Question:

The call is for the removal of the CF because it is a reminder of a bad time when the flag was used as a symbol of oppression.

Why have a monument depicting black children getting attacked by dogs in the 1960's?

Isn't that a reminder of a very bad time in history?

It is, but for different reasons. One is to honor those who suffered the oppression. The other is not. And it was completely co-opted by those who celebrated the people who sic'd the dogs on those girls.

[MDM4AU 331]

Something I have been thinking about quite a bit over the last 24 hours... If all those that hold the "heritage" part of the flag so dear would have stepped up long ago and kept it from being co-opted by hate groups and morons maybe this wouldn't be as big an issue. It's similar to the call for "good Muslims" to stand up against the "bad Muslims" and take their religion back, no?

Obviously the meaning behind the flag has been twisted and perverted but others that still deem the flag for its southern heritage should be able to wear it without their character being called into question. Nobody is asking the good Muslims to choose another religion merely because some "bad" Muslims are corrupting the religion.

I'm still not sure you understand the point. I'm not advocating for you not to be able to wear what ever flag you want. I don't think anyone on here is. I think your analogy is way off too. If your character is being called into question by some in society because you choose to wear the Confederate Stars and Bars it's because no one stopped the nut jobs and sociopaths from using that flag as a symbol of hate, racism, evil, and intimidation for more than 100 years.

[jenn4AU 24]

And so it begins:

http://www.abc3340.c...nt-in-linn-park

Outcast Voters League calls for removal of Linn Park's Confedera - ABC 33/40 - Birmingham News, Weather, Sports

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Outcast Voters League calls for removal of Linn Park's Confederate soldiers & sailors monument

Posted: Jun 23, 2015 11:50 AM CDT

Updated: Jun 23, 2015 1:30 PM CDT

By Sheri FalkCONNECT

The President of the Outcast Voters League is calling for the removal of the Confederate Soldiers & Sailors Monument at Linn Park.

Frank James Mathews will hold a news conference Tuesday afternoon in front of the monument to voice his concerns.

"I first made this point 10 years ago," said Mathews. "Now, I will be revisiting the removal of this confederate monument from Linn Park. The monument has swords, guns and quotes from Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America. This monument was erected in Linn Park and absolutely had nothing to do with Birmingham, AL. The guns, swords and quotes on the confederate monument are more offensive to me than the stars and bars on the confederate flag."

Mathews plans to attend the next city council meeting and ask Mayor William Bell and council members to remove the confederate monument that was erected and dedicated in Linn Park on April 26, 1905.

"I'm a lifelong of Jefferson County/Birmingham Alabama. And as a tax-paying citizen in Birmingham and Jefferson County, I think that the monument that was dedicated by the Pelham Chapter No. 67 United Daughters of the Confederacy should be removed from Linn Park and sent to them in Pelham Alabama. They erected this monstrosity monster and they need to remove it!!"

Hmmmm.....

[aujeff11 6,243]

Something I have been thinking about quite a bit over the last 24 hours... If all those that hold the "heritage" part of the flag so dear would have stepped up long ago and kept it from being co-opted by hate groups and morons maybe this wouldn't be as big an issue. It's similar to the call for "good Muslims" to stand up against the "bad Muslims" and take their religion back, no?

Obviously the meaning behind the flag has been twisted and perverted but others that still deem the flag for its southern heritage should be able to wear it without their character being called into question. Nobody is asking the good Muslims to choose another religion merely because some "bad" Muslims are corrupting the religion.

I'm still not sure you understand the point. I'm not advocating for you not to be able to wear what ever flag you want. I don't think anyone on here is. I think your analogy is way off too. If your character is being called into question by some in society because you choose to wear the Confederate Stars and Bars it's because no one stopped the nut jobs and sociopaths from using that flag as a symbol of hate, racism, evil, and intimidation for more than 100 years.

nope, two people on the other thread called my character into question for stating I'd continue wearing the shirt even if some are offended by it. Also, it was your analogy that was way off and I corrected it. I understand that the nutjobs twisted the meaning of the flag but that doesn't mean I will wear a different shirt.

[MDM4AU 331]

Something I have been thinking about quite a bit over the last 24 hours... If all those that hold the "heritage" part of the flag so dear would have stepped up long ago and kept it from being co-opted by hate groups and morons maybe this wouldn't be as big an issue. It's similar to the call for "good Muslims" to stand up against the "bad Muslims" and take their religion back, no?

Obviously the meaning behind the flag has been twisted and perverted but others that still deem the flag for its southern heritage should be able to wear it without their character being called into question. Nobody is asking the good Muslims to choose another religion merely because some "bad" Muslims are corrupting the religion.

I'm still not sure you understand the point. I'm not advocating for you not to be able to wear what ever flag you want. I don't think anyone on here is. I think your analogy is way off too. If your character is being called into question by some in society because you choose to wear the Confederate Stars and Bars it's because no one stopped the nut jobs and sociopaths from using that flag as a symbol of hate, racism, evil, and intimidation for more than 100 years.

nope, two people on the other thread called my character into question for stating I'd continue wearing the shirt even if some are offended by it. Also, it was your analogy that was way off and I corrected it. I understand that the nutjobs twisted the meaning of the flag but that doesn't mean I will wear a different shirt.

Well, I think you need to take the character question up with them and not me. At no point did I say anything or even suggest questioning your character.

My analogy is spot-on. You corrected nothing. No one has asked anyone to "change" their heritage. I really shouldn't have to go further than this.

There are plenty of people around that clamor for "good Muslums" to stand up to the "bad Muslims". If the "good CF people" had stood up to the "bad CF people", then there is a chance we wouldn't be having this discussion in 2015 about a flag and what it means to certain people. Maybe the flag in question wouldn't be viewed the way it is viewed by so many Americans.

[alexava 6,973]

Something I have been thinking about quite a bit over the last 24 hours... If all those that hold the "heritage" part of the flag so dear would have stepped up long ago and kept it from being co-opted by hate groups and morons maybe this wouldn't be as big an issue. It's similar to the call for "good Muslims" to stand up against the "bad Muslims" and take their religion back, no?

Obviously the meaning behind the flag has been twisted and perverted but others that still deem the flag for its southern heritage should be able to wear it without their character being called into question. Nobody is asking the good Muslims to choose another religion merely because some "bad" Muslims are corrupting the religion.

I'm still not sure you understand the point. I'm not advocating for you not to be able to wear what ever flag you want. I don't think anyone on here is. I think your analogy is way off too. If your character is being called into question by some in society because you choose to wear the Confederate Stars and Bars it's because no one stopped the nut jobs and sociopaths from using that flag as a symbol of hate, racism, evil, and intimidation for more than 100 years.

nope, two people on the other thread called my character into question for stating I'd continue wearing the shirt even if some are offended by it. Also, it was your analogy that was way off and I corrected it. I understand that the nutjobs twisted the meaning of the flag but that doesn't mean I will wear a different shirt.

i don't think i was one who questioned your character. i don't know enough about you. but you should know that when you are seen with a reblel flag on you are going to be considered a racist by the vast majority of people. do you not care?

[aujeff11 6,243]

I'm in an awkward position defending the so called good CF people that lived before my time for not defending the CF against the bad CF people. To pander to your ears, damn you good CF people!!

[aujeff11 6,243]

Something I have been thinking about quite a bit over the last 24 hours... If all those that hold the "heritage" part of the flag so dear would have stepped up long ago and kept it from being co-opted by hate groups and morons maybe this wouldn't be as big an issue. It's similar to the call for "good Muslims" to stand up against the "bad Muslims" and take their religion back, no?

Obviously the meaning behind the flag has been twisted and perverted but others that still deem the flag for its southern heritage should be able to wear it without their character being called into question. Nobody is asking the good Muslims to choose another religion merely because some "bad" Muslims are corrupting the religion.

I'm still not sure you understand the point. I'm not advocating for you not to be able to wear what ever flag you want. I don't think anyone on here is. I think your analogy is way off too. If your character is being called into question by some in society because you choose to wear the Confederate Stars and Bars it's because no one stopped the nut jobs and sociopaths from using that flag as a symbol of hate, racism, evil, and intimidation for more than 100 years.

nope, two people on the other thread called my character into question for stating I'd continue wearing the shirt even if some are offended by it. Also, it was your analogy that was way off and I corrected it. I understand that the nutjobs twisted the meaning of the flag but that doesn't mean I will wear a different shirt.

i don't think i was one who questioned your character. i don't know enough about you. but you should know that when you are seen with a reblel flag on you are going to be considered a racist by the vast majority of people. do you not care?

I live in Alabama. Vast majority my azz

[alexava 6,973]

Something I have been thinking about quite a bit over the last 24 hours... If all those that hold the "heritage" part of the flag so dear would have stepped up long ago and kept it from being co-opted by hate groups and morons maybe this wouldn't be as big an issue. It's similar to the call for "good Muslims" to stand up against the "bad Muslims" and take their religion back, no?

Obviously the meaning behind the flag has been twisted and perverted but others that still deem the flag for its southern heritage should be able to wear it without their character being called into question. Nobody is asking the good Muslims to choose another religion merely because some "bad" Muslims are corrupting the religion.

I'm still not sure you understand the point. I'm not advocating for you not to be able to wear what ever flag you want. I don't think anyone on here is. I think your analogy is way off too. If your character is being called into question by some in society because you choose to wear the Confederate Stars and Bars it's because no one stopped the nut jobs and sociopaths from using that flag as a symbol of hate, racism, evil, and intimidation for more than 100 years.

nope, two people on the other thread called my character into question for stating I'd continue wearing the shirt even if some are offended by it. Also, it was your analogy that was way off and I corrected it. I understand that the nutjobs twisted the meaning of the flag but that doesn't mean I will wear a different shirt.

i don't think i was one who questioned your character. i don't know enough about you. but you should know that when you are seen with a reblel flag on you are going to be considered a racist by the vast majority of people. do you not care?

I live in Alabama. Vast majority my azz

ok, the vast majority who are not also racist.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Something I have been thinking about quite a bit over the last 24 hours... If all those that hold the "heritage" part of the flag so dear would have stepped up long ago and kept it from being co-opted by hate groups and morons maybe this wouldn't be as big an issue. It's similar to the call for "good Muslims" to stand up against the "bad Muslims" and take their religion back, no?

Obviously the meaning behind the flag has been twisted and perverted but others that still deem the flag for its southern heritage should be able to wear it without their character being called into question. Nobody is asking the good Muslims to choose another religion merely because some "bad" Muslims are corrupting the religion.

I'm still not sure you understand the point. I'm not advocating for you not to be able to wear what ever flag you want. I don't think anyone on here is. I think your analogy is way off too. If your character is being called into question by some in society because you choose to wear the Confederate Stars and Bars it's because no one stopped the nut jobs and sociopaths from using that flag as a symbol of hate, racism, evil, and intimidation for more than 100 years.

nope, two people on the other thread called my character into question for stating I'd continue wearing the shirt even if some are offended by it. Also, it was your analogy that was way off and I corrected it. I understand that the nutjobs twisted the meaning of the flag but that doesn't mean I will wear a different shirt.

i don't think i was one who questioned your character. i don't know enough about you. but you should know that when you are seen with a reblel flag on you are going to be considered a racist by the vast majority of people. do you not care?

I live in Alabama. Vast majority my azz

ok, the vast majority who are not also racist.

also

[homersapien 11,362]

This is the part that cinches it:

Imagine your great-grandfather was a slave. Imagine your great-grandfather was lynched. Imagine your grandfather was forced to drink from a separate fountain. Imagine your father or mother was murdered by a deranged man with the Confederate flag all over his website.

Imagine these kinds of horrors were your American heritage. Imagine every time you saw a Confederate flag it reminded you of this.

Now imagine being told you don’t understand what the flag “really” means.

It’s an insult.

That was a very succinct way of putting it.

It makes the point obvious.