Obama to announce diplomatic relations with Cuba

[AURaptor 1,121]

We just want cigars!!!!!Please President Obama make sure you got it in there that we can get Cuban cigars!!!!!!!!

The myth of Cuban cigars is one of some exaggeration. Yes, the soil is great and there's no denying it's a fine product, but many of the growers who refused to work under Fidel, or were forced out because their OWN land was taken from them, set up shop elsewhere and took much of the knowledge on how to make a great cigar with them.

[homersapien 11,353]

quiet....the problem is that so many voters have given up even keeping up with all the lies and corruption of politicians of all stripes and just don't care anymore.

"The more a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it."--George Orwell

I think one reason so many dislike Obama is because he has such along list of lies.

I think a bigger reason so many dislike Obama is that he is a black liberal.

[AURaptor 1,121]

quiet....the problem is that so many voters have given up even keeping up with all the lies and corruption of politicians of all stripes and just don't care anymore.

"The more a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it."--George Orwell

I think one reason so many dislike Obama is because he has such along list of lies.

I think a bigger reason so many dislike Obama is that he is a black liberal.

Yeah, it's definitely him being black that I hate. The lies ? Meh, who the hell cares about any of that ?

[homersapien 11,353]

quiet....the problem is that so many voters have given up even keeping up with all the lies and corruption of politicians of all stripes and just don't care anymore.

"The more a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it."--George Orwell

I think one reason so many dislike Obama is because he has such along list of lies.

I think a bigger reason so many dislike Obama is that he is a black liberal.

Yeah, it's definitely him being black that I hate. The lies ? Meh, who the hell cares about any of that ?

All politicians lie. That's not unique for any POTUS. Heck, his predecessor lied to get us into an illegal war.

It's his being black that makes the big difference.

[AURaptor 1,121]

All politicians lie. That's not unique for any POTUS. Heck, his predecessor lied to get us into an illegal war.

No he didn't. That itself is a lie. Or at least completely false.

But claiming they ALL do it, so it's not big deal is every bit as disingenuous and hypocritical as one can get.

Funny how proggies defend with their lives the concept of politicians lying when it comes to Clinton ( both ) or Obama, but climb upon their highest horse in the stable when accusing Republicans of lying, even when they didn't.

It's his being black that makes the big difference.

Was it the difference when Ted Kennedy and company went after Clarence Thomas with their high tech lynching ?

[homersapien 11,353]

All politicians lie. That's not unique for any POTUS. Heck, his predecessor lied to get us into an illegal war.

No he didn't. That itself is a lie. Or at least completely false.

Yeah, I just made it up.

[homersapien 11,353]

Was it the difference when Ted Kennedy and company went after Clarence Thomas with their high tech lynching ?

Actually no. It was about sexual harassment (of a black woman).

It was Clarence Thomas himself who tried to hide behind his race by characterizing it as such.

[AURaptor 1,121]

All politicians lie. That's not unique for any POTUS. Heck, his predecessor lied to get us into an illegal war.

No he didn't. That itself is a lie. Or at least completely false.

Yeah, I just made it up.

Bob Woodward spent 18 months looking into whether Bush lied or not. Found no evidence of Bush having lied us into war.

Where the hell is your evidence ?

[homersapien 11,353]

All politicians lie. That's not unique for any POTUS. Heck, his predecessor lied to get us into an illegal war.

No he didn't. That itself is a lie. Or at least completely false.

Yeah, I just made it up.

Bob Woodward spent 18 months looking into whether Bush lied or not. Found no evidence of Bush having lied us into war.

Where the hell is your evidence ?

The invasion of Iraq.

[AURaptor 1,121]

All politicians lie. That's not unique for any POTUS. Heck, his predecessor lied to get us into an illegal war.

No he didn't. That itself is a lie. Or at least completely false.

Yeah, I just made it up.

Bob Woodward spent 18 months looking into whether Bush lied or not. Found no evidence of Bush having lied us into war.

Where the hell is your evidence ?

The invasion of Iraq.

Troll.

That's not evidence that Bush lied.

Man, you really must have no life, what so ever.

[homersapien 11,353]

All politicians lie. That's not unique for any POTUS. Heck, his predecessor lied to get us into an illegal war.

No he didn't. That itself is a lie. Or at least completely false.

Yeah, I just made it up.

Bob Woodward spent 18 months looking into whether Bush lied or not. Found no evidence of Bush having lied us into war.

Where the hell is your evidence ?

The invasion of Iraq.

Troll.

That's not evidence that Bush lied.

Man, you really must have no life, what so ever.

OK, then show me your evidence where Bush stated he wasn't really sure about those "weapons of mass destruction" but we should invade anyway, just in case they were there. (Or something to that effect.)

And it's pretty funny for you to talk about someone being a troll when you claim Obama is the biggest liar of all time and then claim Bush didn't lie about a freakin' invasion. :-\

You stop making idiotic posts and I will stop calling them out for what they are.

[AURaptor 1,121]

I've not made any idiotic posts and you've no where come close to " calling me out ".

You have zero evidence that Bush lied.

Obama, in contrast, flat out lied about a lot of things, mostly about O-Care. It was an intentional, purposeful lie, w/ the intent to deceive and push forward his agenda.

You have exactly nothing, homie.

[homersapien 11,353]

I've not made any idiotic posts and you've no where come close to " calling me out ".

You have zero evidence that Bush lied.

Obama, in contrast, flat out lied about a lot of things, mostly about O-Care. It was an intentional, purposeful lie, w/ the intent to deceive and push forward his agenda.

You have exactly nothing, homie.

And let's not forget he thinks he owns the white house, right.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

I'm sure every POTUS has told lies but Obama is so far out front there is no comparison.

[quietfan 233]

quiet....the problem is that so many voters have given up even keeping up with all the lies and corruption of politicians of all stripes and just don't care anymore.

I doubt very much it was so much Obama's ideas as it was a combo of a really bad candidate in McCain and the fabricated thrill of 'change', which the MSM helped hype up.

For the sake of discussion only, let's assume you are correct on both points: The voters' motives, intellectual abilities, gullibility, and/or the quality of candidates are irrelevant. In our democracy it's only the voters' voices at the ballot box that count. Assuming Hillary is nominated by her party (not yet a done deal), it's up to the voters in November 2016 to decide if they want her or not, regardless of their reasons or delusions. Just as the elections of 2008 and 2012 reflected the will of the majority regarding Obama.

I don't claim the majority is always smart, always correct, or always well informed. In fact, I fear a "tyranny of the majority" more than any other suggested tyranny on the horizon because I think it is a more realistic possibility than tyranny from an outside conqueror or an internal coup d'état. But whomever is elected in 2016, I will respect his or her authority as the duly elected, people's choice for President. Our system can prevent an Obama-Hillary succession (or "coronation", as no doubt some might call it) if it wishes. If not, then the minority must accept the people's voice and the legitimacy of her inauguration.

[AURaptor 1,121]

But whomever is elected in 2016, I will respect his or her authority as the duly elected, people's choice for President.

quiet - If it's Hillary, knowing full well of her lies and corruption, I won't .

[quietfan 233]

But whomever is elected in 2016, I will respect his or her authority as the duly elected, people's choice for President.

quiet - If it's Hillary, knowing full well of her lies and corruption, I won't .

I didn't expect you would. But I acknowledge your right to withhold your respect.

[arnaldoabru 11]

All politicians lie. That's not unique for any POTUS. Heck, his predecessor lied to get us into an illegal war.

No he didn't. That itself is a lie. Or at least completely false.

Yeah, I just made it up.

Bob Woodward spent 18 months looking into whether Bush lied or not. Found no evidence of Bush having lied us into war.

Where the hell is your evidence ?

Former CIA Deputy Director Michael Morell

on the Saddam link between Iraq an Al Qaeda

"What they ( Bush, Cheney) were saying about the link between Iraq and Al Qaeda publicly was not what the intelligence community had concluded"

On DICK cheney's 2003 comment- " we know he ( Saddam Hussein ) has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons"

Morrell- " that's not true"

[Grumps 3,693]

Sorry for the thread hijack, but: Hey arnaldo! It is great to see you post! I hope you are doing well!

[AURaptor 1,121]

Former CIA Deputy Director Michael Morell

on the Saddam link between Iraq an Al Qaeda

"What they ( Bush, Cheney) were saying about the link between Iraq and Al Qaeda publicly was not what the intelligence community had concluded"

On DICK cheney's 2003 comment- " we know he ( Saddam Hussein ) has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons"

Morrell- " that's not true"

That was the intel that we were getting, so even if not true, it doesn't in any way prove that Bush " lied ". Or Cheney.

George Tenet, the DIRECTOR of the CIA, ( and a hold over from the Clinton administration ) called the case against Iraq a " slam dunk " . Sorry, but he holds more weight than the Deputy Director. Who happens to be pushing a book, and needs copies sold, to make his publisher happy.

And you're not homie, so double swing and a miss.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

Former CIA Deputy Director Michael Morell

on the Saddam link between Iraq an Al Qaeda

"What they ( Bush, Cheney) were saying about the link between Iraq and Al Qaeda publicly was not what the intelligence community had concluded"

On DICK cheney's 2003 comment- " we know he ( Saddam Hussein ) has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons"

Morrell- " that's not true"

That was the intel that we were getting, so even if not true, it doesn't in any way prove that Bush " lied ". Or Cheney.

George Tenet, the DIRECTOR of the CIA, ( and a hold over from the Clinton administration ) called the case against Iraq a " slam dunk " . Sorry, but he holds more weight than the Deputy Director. Who happens to be pushing a book, and needs copies sold, to make his publisher happy.

And you're not homie, so double swing and a miss.

Are you aware that Tenet himself, has backed away from that statement? How do you account for Republican leader Dick Armey's comments? Bush and Cheney lied or, they were terribly incompetent. Their agenda, and history, indicate the former.

From 9/11, to the Iraq War, to the handling of the financial crisis, the Bush Presidency was an epic disaster. No amount of spin, or lies, or blindly loyal talk radio listening right-wing zealots, can change that fact.

[homersapien 11,353]

Raptor is playing a semantic game in which deception is not technically equivalent to lying.

Not really surprising from someone who insists Obama said he literally owned the white house.

George W. Bush didn't just lie about the Iraq War. What he did was much worse.

None of the conservatives running for president want to be associated with the last Republican president — not even his brother (for whom stepping away is rather complicated). After all, George W. Bush left office with an approval rating hovering in the low 30s, and his grandest project was the gigantic catastrophe of the Iraq War, which we're still dealing with and still debating. If you're a Republican right now you're no doubt wishing we could talk about something else, but failing that, you'd like the issue framed in a particular way: The war was an honest mistake, nobody lied to the public, and anything bad that's happening now is Barack Obama's fault.

For the moment I want to focus on the part about the lies. I've found over the years that conservatives who supported the war get particularly angry at the assertion that Bush lied us into war. No, they'll insist, it wasn't his fault: There was mistaken intelligence, he took that intelligence in good faith, and presented what he believed to be true at the time. It's the George Costanza

: It's not a lie if you believe it.

Here's the problem, though. It might be possible, with some incredibly narrow definition of the word "lie," to say that Bush told only a few outright lies on Iraq. Most of what he said in order to sell the public on the war could be said to have some basis in something somebody thought or something somebody alleged (Bush was slightly more careful than Dick Cheney, who lied without hesitation or remorse). But if we reduce the question of Bush's guilt and responsibility to how many lies we can count, we miss the bigger picture.

What the Bush administration launched in 2002 and 2003 may have been the most comprehensive, sophisticated, and misleading campaign of government propaganda in American history. Spend too much time in the weeds, and you risk missing the hysterical tenor of the whole campaign.

That's not to say there aren't plenty of weeds. In 2008, the Center for Public Integrity completed a project in which they went over the public statements by eight top Bush administration officials on the topic of Iraq, and found that no fewer than 935 were false, including 260 statements by President Bush himself. But the theory on which the White House operated was that whether or not you could fool all of the people some of the time, you could certainly scare them out of their wits. That's what was truly diabolical about their campaign.

And it was a campaign. In the summer of 2002, the administration established something called the White House Iraq Group, through which Karl Rove and other communication strategists like Karen Hughes and Mary Matalin coordinated with policy officials to sell the public on the threat from Iraq in order to justify war. "The script had been finalized with great care over the summer," White House press secretary Scott McClellan later wrote, for a "campaign to convince Americans that war with Iraq was inevitable and necessary."

In that campaign, intelligence wasn't something to be understood and assessed by the administration in making their decisions, it was a propaganda tool to lead the public to the conclusion that the administration wanted. Again and again we saw a similar pattern: An allegation would bubble up from somewhere, some in the intelligence community would say that it could be true but others would say it was either speculation or outright baloney, but before you knew it the president or someone else was presenting it to the public as settled fact.

And each and every time the message was the same: If we didn't wage war, Iraq was going to attack the United States homeland with its enormous arsenal of ghastly weapons, and who knows how many Americans would perish. When you actually spell it out like that it sounds almost comical, but that was the Bush administration's assertion, repeated hundreds upon hundreds of time to a public still skittish in the wake of September 11. (Remember, the campaign for the war began less than a year after the September 11 attacks.)

Sometimes this message was imparted with specific false claims, sometimes with dark insinuation, and sometimes with speculation about the horrors to come ("We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud," said Bush and others when asked about the thinness of much of their evidence). Yet the conclusion was always the same: The only alternative to invading Iraq was waiting around to be killed. I could pick out any of a thousand quotes, but here's just one, from a radio address Bush gave on September 28, 2002:

"The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons, is rebuilding the facilities to make more and, according to the British government, could launch a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes after the order is given. The regime has long-standing and continuing ties to terrorist groups, and there are al Qaeda terrorists inside Iraq. This regime is seeking a nuclear bomb, and with fissile material could build one within a year."

What wasn't utterly false in that statement was disingenuous at best. But if there was anything that marked the campaign, it was its certainty. There was seldom any doubt expressed or admitted, seldom any hint that the information we had was incomplete, speculative, and the matter of fevered debate amongst intelligence officials. But that's what was going on beneath the administration's sales job.

The intelligence wasn't "mistaken," as the Bush administration's defenders would have us believe today. The intelligence was a mass of contradictions and differing interpretations. The administration picked out the parts that they wanted — supported, unsupported, plausible, absurd, it didn't matter — and used them in their campaign to turn up Americans' fear.

This is one of the many sins for which Bush and those who supported him ought to spend a lifetime atoning. He looked out at the American public and decided that the way to get what he wanted was to terrify them. If he could convince them that any day now their children would die a horrible death, that they and everything they knew would be turned to radioactive ash, and that the only chance of averting this fate was to say yes to him, then he could have his war. Lies were of no less value than truth, so long as they both created enough fear.

And it worked.

http://theweek.com/a...-did-much-worse

[AURaptor 1,121]

Nice fiction, homie.

Raptor is playing a semantic game in which deception is not technically equivalent to lying.

Not really surprising from someone who insists Obama said he literally owned the white house.

Was it deception when Clitnon's administration,and EVERY SINGLE prominent Democrat said exactly the same thing ?

Obama flat out lied, undeniably, 27 times, per the HC claims, and you don't bat an eye.

And yes, he DID say " my house ", indicating ownershp.

It's not his house. He's only the RESIDENT.

Remember when the Left CONSTANTLY called W " Resident " ? It was meant as an insult, because of the 2000 election, where whiners cried that Bush STOLE the election.

Well, guess what ? Obama is only the RESIDENT in the WH. It belongs to the people. No amount of spin, or lies, or blindly loyal MSM listening / watching Left-wing zealots, can change that fact.

[WarTim 3,456]

But whomever is elected in 2016, I will respect his or her authority as the duly elected, people's choice for President.

quiet - If it's Hillary, knowing full well of her lies and corruption, I won't .

The pantsuit makes barry ALMOST appear honest.....almost.

[homersapien 11,353]

Nice fiction, homie.

Raptor is playing a semantic game in which deception is not technically equivalent to lying.

Not really surprising from someone who insists Obama said he literally owned the white house.

Was it deception when Clitnon's administration,and EVERY SINGLE prominent Democrat said exactly the same thing ?

Obama flat out lied, undeniably, 27 times, per the HC claims, and you don't bat an eye.

And yes, he DID say " my house ", indicating ownershp.

It's not his house. He's only the RESIDENT.

Remember when the Left CONSTANTLY called W " Resident " ? It was meant as an insult, because of the 2000 election, where whiners cried that Bush STOLE the election.

Well, guess what ? Obama is only the RESIDENT in the WH. It belongs to the people. No amount of spin, or lies, or blindly loyal MSM listening / watching Left-wing zealots, can change that fact.

I bet there's smoke coming out your ears!