We need more prisons.

[TexasTiger 12,811]

And now comes the part where we explain where this magical money tree exists to pay for infinite amounts of space to house non-violent criminals we have decided that rehabilitation is a worthless endeavor on.

Millions for incarceration, not one cent for rehabilitation.

Billions.

[homersapien 11,354]

My ass is just as reliable as anything else i have seen today.

Come on Alexava, you don't want to join that crowd. You're better than that.

Just admit you were blowing off some steam and let it go.

[homersapien 11,354]

And now comes the part where we explain where this magical money tree exists to pay for infinite amounts of space to house non-violent criminals we have decided that rehabilitation is a worthless endeavor on.

Millions for incarceration, not one cent for rehabilitation.

Billions.

Good point. Fixed it.

[alexava 6,973]

My ass is just as reliable as anything else i have seen today.

Come on Alexava, you don't want to join that crowd. Your're better than that.

Just admit you were blowing off some steam and let it go.

i can admit I am blowing off steam. But I am not wrong. No one goes to prison in Alabama for petty nonviolent hiccups. And drugs cause almost all crimes. I don't consider drug offenses petty while they may be nonviolent they breed violence. That is why I seriously don't get the idea drug offenders should not be incarcerated. It's pretty simple. You avoid crime or go to jail. If you commit crime you don't get awarded with a free education and a job. Most criminals don't want a job anyway.

[homersapien 11,354]

My ass is just as reliable as anything else i have seen today.

Come on Alexava, you don't want to join that crowd. Your're better than that.

Just admit you were blowing off some steam and let it go.

i can admit I am blowing off steam. But I am not wrong. No one goes to prison in Alabama for petty nonviolent hiccups. And drugs cause almost all crimes. I don't consider drug offenses petty while they may be nonviolent they breed violence. That is why I seriously don't get the idea drug offenders should not be incarcerated. It's pretty simple. You avoid crime or go to jail. If you commit crime you don't get awarded with a free education and a job. Most criminals don't want a job anyway.

The drug problem should be treated as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue. The association with drugs and crimes is a direct result of making it a criminal issue to begin with.

And again, another statement without evidence to support it.

[alexava 6,973]

My ass is just as reliable as anything else i have seen today.

Come on Alexava, you don't want to join that crowd. Your're better than that.

Just admit you were blowing off some steam and let it go.

i can admit I am blowing off steam. But I am not wrong. No one goes to prison in Alabama for petty nonviolent hiccups. And drugs cause almost all crimes. I don't consider drug offenses petty while they may be nonviolent they breed violence. That is why I seriously don't get the idea drug offenders should not be incarcerated. It's pretty simple. You avoid crime or go to jail. If you commit crime you don't get awarded with a free education and a job. Most criminals don't want a job anyway.

The drug problem should be treated as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue. The association with drugs and crimes is a direct result of making it a criminal issue to begin with.

And again, another statement without evidence to support it.

http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/06/alabamas_prison_population_mur.html

support provided

[aujeff11 6,243]

My ass is just as reliable as anything else i have seen today.

Come on Alexava, you don't want to join that crowd. Your're better than that.

Just admit you were blowing off some steam and let it go.

i can admit I am blowing off steam. But I am not wrong. No one goes to prison in Alabama for petty nonviolent hiccups. And drugs cause almost all crimes. I don't consider drug offenses petty while they may be nonviolent they breed violence. That is why I seriously don't get the idea drug offenders should not be incarcerated. It's pretty simple. You avoid crime or go to jail. If you commit crime you don't get awarded with a free education and a job. Most criminals don't want a job anyway.

The drug problem should be treated as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue. The association with drugs and crimes is a direct result of making it a criminal issue to begin with.

And again, another statement without evidence to support it.

http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/06/alabamas_prison_population_mur.html

support provided

That helps your argument that most criminals don't want a job anyway? If so, how so?

[alexava 6,973]

My ass is just as reliable as anything else i have seen today.

Come on Alexava, you don't want to join that crowd. Your're better than that.

Just admit you were blowing off some steam and let it go.

i can admit I am blowing off steam. But I am not wrong. No one goes to prison in Alabama for petty nonviolent hiccups. And drugs cause almost all crimes. I don't consider drug offenses petty while they may be nonviolent they breed violence. That is why I seriously don't get the idea drug offenders should not be incarcerated. It's pretty simple. You avoid crime or go to jail. If you commit crime you don't get awarded with a free education and a job. Most criminals don't want a job anyway.

The drug problem should be treated as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue. The association with drugs and crimes is a direct result of making it a criminal issue to begin with.

And again, another statement without evidence to support it.

http://blog.al.com/w...lation_mur.html

support provided

That helps your argument that most criminals don't want a job anyway? If so, how so?

yea i didnt see he bolded that but. Jobs are actually not terribly difficult to get in this area (Huntsville) good jobs are hard to get but you must start somewhere. The company i work for now and another company i worked for for 8 years hired a few excons. usually as temps and they usually dont last very long. you know why? several reasons. attendance and random drug tests for starters. it is hard to be at work at 6 AM when you are up drunk or high all night. and sometimes they go back in for sexual assault about the time that management finds out they hired someone awaiting trial for sex crimes(former elementary teacher) i guess you have to actually see these things personally to understand why i lose compassion. i have people i grew up with that have lost their kids to dhr, served many stints in the pen, been in rehab multiple times and been given starter jobs after all that then steal from the company that hired them and family members that opened their homes. i could go on. they choose the life. most people in prison earned it over and over. too many get out anyway. Jeff you did make a good point about they have to be released eventually. i agree it is going to suck sooner or later, i guess i prefer later. i just don't have faith in rehabilitation or helping someone get a job that don't have the character or desire to keep one.

[tgr4lfe 220]

My ass is just as reliable as anything else i have seen today.

Come on Alexava, you don't want to join that crowd. Your're better than that.

Just admit you were blowing off some steam and let it go.

i can admit I am blowing off steam. But I am not wrong. No one goes to prison in Alabama for petty nonviolent hiccups. And drugs cause almost all crimes. I don't consider drug offenses petty while they may be nonviolent they breed violence. That is why I seriously don't get the idea drug offenders should not be incarcerated. It's pretty simple. You avoid crime or go to jail. If you commit crime you don't get awarded with a free education and a job. Most criminals don't want a job anyway.

The drug problem should be treated as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue. The association with drugs and crimes is a direct result of making it a criminal issue to begin with.

And again, another statement without evidence to support it.

Yea, b/c public health is so much better equipped to handle it.

Negative, the addiction to illegal drugs and subsequent need of the addicted to perpetuate the addiction is what ends up making it a criminal issue. The addiction to illegal drugs makes some commit crime to get money and/or property to buy the drugs, whether the drugs were legal or not. When I was an LEO, I arrested a guy who had burglarized an elderly woman's home to steal stuff (in this case he took silverware among other things), but he didn't stop at just stealing the property, he had to beat the old woman (breaking her leg and hospitalizing her) and tried to RAPE her.

Yes, the CJ system needs to be overhauled along with sentencing guidelines, but often cases are being pushed through the systems as fast as they can b/c there are so many. Most areas are overloaded with cases and plead out most of the non-violent cases. Here in Metro Nashville they pump out plea deals like candy from a vending machine, unless it is a major violent crime or high dollar theft type case.

I think sentencing guidelines should be considered in conjunction with the offender. If its a non-violent crime and the offender hasn't been in the system in X amount of time then the newest charge should be re-considered outside of the pervue of a repeat offender clause. There is where many of the repeat offender sentencing guidelines are flawed. It's not necessarily written to take that into account. What everyone needs to realize is that the non-violent crimes OFTEN cost taxpayers more, b/c of the quick catch and release of the court system for non-violent offenders. It has been shown that a car burglar has committed many more crimes than what they go to jail on, same for many burglars, and petty thieves. Granted the violent offenders, who assault, rape, kill cost society in worse ways that are not always monetary, except for their incarceration and court costs. I do agree with aleava that doing the crime is and should be punished. Prisons are already crowded and underfunded. Frankly, many of those incarcerated don't care to or want to do rehab to make themselves better. They are content with were they are and what they had been doing and there is likely no getting through to them. It is a difficult road to navigate, with sentencing and mandatory sentences, non-violent versus violent crimes and taking into account the persons history, but some changes would/could be beneficial for America's prisons.

[alexava 6,973]

My ass is just as reliable as anything else i have seen today.

Come on Alexava, you don't want to join that crowd. Your're better than that.

Just admit you were blowing off some steam and let it go.

i can admit I am blowing off steam. But I am not wrong. No one goes to prison in Alabama for petty nonviolent hiccups. And drugs cause almost all crimes. I don't consider drug offenses petty while they may be nonviolent they breed violence. That is why I seriously don't get the idea drug offenders should not be incarcerated. It's pretty simple. You avoid crime or go to jail. If you commit crime you don't get awarded with a free education and a job. Most criminals don't want a job anyway.

The drug problem should be treated as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue. The association with drugs and crimes is a direct result of making it a criminal issue to begin with.

And again, another statement without evidence to support it.

Yea, b/c public health is so much better equipped to handle it.

Negative, the addiction to illegal drugs and subsequent need of the addicted to perpetuate the addiction is what ends up making it a criminal issue. The addiction to illegal drugs makes some commit crime to get money and/or property to buy the drugs, whether the drugs were legal or not. When I was an LEO, I arrested a guy who had burglarized an elderly woman's home to steal stuff (in this case he took silverware among other things), but he didn't stop at just stealing the property, he had to beat the old woman (breaking her leg and hospitalizing her) and tried to RAPE her.

Yes, the CJ system needs to be overhauled along with sentencing guidelines, but often cases are being pushed through the systems as fast as they can b/c there are so many. Most areas are overloaded with cases and plead out most of the non-violent cases. Here in Metro Nashville they pump out plea deals like candy from a vending machine, unless it is a major violent crime or high dollar theft type case.

I think sentencing guidelines should be considered in conjunction with the offender. If its a non-violent crime and the offender hasn't been in the system in X amount of time then the newest charge should be re-considered outside of the pervue of a repeat offender clause. There is where many of the repeat offender sentencing guidelines are flawed. It's not necessarily written to take that into account. What everyone needs to realize is that the non-violent crimes OFTEN cost taxpayers more, b/c of the quick catch and release of the court system for non-violent offenders. It has been shown that a car burglar has committed many more crimes than what they go to jail on, same for many burglars, and petty thieves. Granted the violent offenders, who assault, rape, kill cost society in worse ways that are not always monetary, except for their incarceration and court costs. I do agree with aleava that doing the crime is and should be punished. Prisons are already crowded and underfunded. Frankly, many of those incarcerated don't care to or want to do rehab to make themselves better. They are content with were they are and what they had been doing and there is likely no getting through to them. It is a difficult road to navigate, with sentencing and mandatory sentences, non-violent versus violent crimes and taking into account the persons history, but some changes would/could be beneficial for America's prisons.

[Strychnine 1,802]

My ass is just as reliable as anything else i have seen today.

Come on Alexava, you don't want to join that crowd. Your're better than that.

Just admit you were blowing off some steam and let it go.

i can admit I am blowing off steam. But I am not wrong. No one goes to prison in Alabama for petty nonviolent hiccups. And drugs cause almost all crimes. I don't consider drug offenses petty while they may be nonviolent they breed violence. That is why I seriously don't get the idea drug offenders should not be incarcerated. It's pretty simple. You avoid crime or go to jail. If you commit crime you don't get awarded with a free education and a job. Most criminals don't want a job anyway.

The drug problem should be treated as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue. The association with drugs and crimes is a direct result of making it a criminal issue to begin with.

And again, another statement without evidence to support it.

Yea, b/c public health is so much better equipped to handle it.

Negative, the addiction to illegal drugs and subsequent need of the addicted to perpetuate the addiction is what ends up making it a criminal issue. The addiction to illegal drugs makes some commit crime to get money and/or property to buy the drugs, whether the drugs were legal or not. When I was an LEO, I arrested a guy who had burglarized an elderly woman's home to steal stuff (in this case he took silverware among other things), but he didn't stop at just stealing the property, he had to beat the old woman (breaking her leg and hospitalizing her) and tried to RAPE her.

Yes, the CJ system needs to be overhauled along with sentencing guidelines, but often cases are being pushed through the systems as fast as they can b/c there are so many. Most areas are overloaded with cases and plead out most of the non-violent cases. Here in Metro Nashville they pump out plea deals like candy from a vending machine, unless it is a major violent crime or high dollar theft type case.

I think sentencing guidelines should be considered in conjunction with the offender. If its a non-violent crime and the offender hasn't been in the system in X amount of time then the newest charge should be re-considered outside of the pervue of a repeat offender clause. There is where many of the repeat offender sentencing guidelines are flawed. It's not necessarily written to take that into account. What everyone needs to realize is that the non-violent crimes OFTEN cost taxpayers more, b/c of the quick catch and release of the court system for non-violent offenders. It has been shown that a car burglar has committed many more crimes than what they go to jail on, same for many burglars, and petty thieves. Granted the violent offenders, who assault, rape, kill cost society in worse ways that are not always monetary, except for their incarceration and court costs. I do agree with aleava that doing the crime is and should be punished. Prisons are already crowded and underfunded. Frankly, many of those incarcerated don't care to or want to do rehab to make themselves better. They are content with were they are and what they had been doing and there is likely no getting through to them. It is a difficult road to navigate, with sentencing and mandatory sentences, non-violent versus violent crimes and taking into account the persons history, but some changes would/could be beneficial for America's prisons.

I would agree with that assessment, and grant that it joins the way prisons are operated at the root of the problems in our criminal justice system (at the level of incarceration at least). However, it does beg the question "why do they feel that way, and what can we do about it?" Should the focus of prison for convicts not serving life sentences be dehumanizing punishment and rehabilitation with a focus on dehumanizing punishment, or should it be the other way around?

If we have established anything, it is that the current system we have been stubbornly sticking to for quite some time is not effective. We are a country that presents itself to the world as the greatest bastion of freedom, but our incarceration rate in comparison to the rest of that world is staggering. We are obviously incarcerating some for far longer than we should, incarcerating some not long enough, incarcerating innocent people, and incarcerating too many people. The United States incarcerates more people than all of Europe, despite Europe's far larger population.

Of course, prison reform alone will do little to correct it. Criminal justice is a complex system that must be evaluated in its entirety in order to effect any meaningful change in outcome, and that extends from the law, to the police, to the courts, and to the prisons. I do not think the OP's suggestion for more prisons is a step in that direction, as more of what is clearly not working is not likely to suddenly start working. I also do not consider condemning human beings to a lifetime of cyclical or consistent incarceration because they do not currently want to "make themselves better" to be a viable solution.

[homersapien 11,354]

My ass is just as reliable as anything else i have seen today.

Come on Alexava, you don't want to join that crowd. Your're better than that.

Just admit you were blowing off some steam and let it go.

i can admit I am blowing off steam. But I am not wrong. No one goes to prison in Alabama for petty nonviolent hiccups. And drugs cause almost all crimes. I don't consider drug offenses petty while they may be nonviolent they breed violence. That is why I seriously don't get the idea drug offenders should not be incarcerated. It's pretty simple. You avoid crime or go to jail. If you commit crime you don't get awarded with a free education and a job. Most criminals don't want a job anyway.

The drug problem should be treated as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue. The association with drugs and crimes is a direct result of making it a criminal issue to begin with.

And again, another statement without evidence to support it.

http://blog.al.com/w...lation_mur.html

support provided

There is nothing in that link that proves "most criminals don't want a job anyway". Obviously, people in prison for murder are not looking for work.

What is the percentage of the prison population represented by murderers?.

[homersapien 11,354]

My ass is just as reliable as anything else i have seen today.

Come on Alexava, you don't want to join that crowd. Your're better than that.

Just admit you were blowing off some steam and let it go.

i can admit I am blowing off steam. But I am not wrong. No one goes to prison in Alabama for petty nonviolent hiccups. And drugs cause almost all crimes. I don't consider drug offenses petty while they may be nonviolent they breed violence. That is why I seriously don't get the idea drug offenders should not be incarcerated. It's pretty simple. You avoid crime or go to jail. If you commit crime you don't get awarded with a free education and a job. Most criminals don't want a job anyway.

The drug problem should be treated as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue. The association with drugs and crimes is a direct result of making it a criminal issue to begin with.

And again, another statement without evidence to support it.

Yea, b/c public health is so much better equipped to handle it.

Negative, the addiction to illegal drugs and subsequent need of the addicted to perpetuate the addiction is what ends up making it a criminal issue. The addiction to illegal drugs makes some commit crime to get money and/or property to buy the drugs, whether the drugs were legal or not. When I was an LEO, I arrested a guy who had burglarized an elderly woman's home to steal stuff (in this case he took silverware among other things), but he didn't stop at just stealing the property, he had to beat the old woman (breaking her leg and hospitalizing her) and tried to RAPE her.

Yes, the CJ system needs to be overhauled along with sentencing guidelines, but often cases are being pushed through the systems as fast as they can b/c there are so many. Most areas are overloaded with cases and plead out most of the non-violent cases. Here in Metro Nashville they pump out plea deals like candy from a vending machine, unless it is a major violent crime or high dollar theft type case.

I think sentencing guidelines should be considered in conjunction with the offender. If its a non-violent crime and the offender hasn't been in the system in X amount of time then the newest charge should be re-considered outside of the pervue of a repeat offender clause. There is where many of the repeat offender sentencing guidelines are flawed. It's not necessarily written to take that into account. What everyone needs to realize is that the non-violent crimes OFTEN cost taxpayers more, b/c of the quick catch and release of the court system for non-violent offenders. It has been shown that a car burglar has committed many more crimes than what they go to jail on, same for many burglars, and petty thieves. Granted the violent offenders, who assault, rape, kill cost society in worse ways that are not always monetary, except for their incarceration and court costs. I do agree with aleava that doing the crime is and should be punished. Prisons are already crowded and underfunded. Frankly, many of those incarcerated don't care to or want to do rehab to make themselves better. They are content with were they are and what they had been doing and there is likely no getting through to them. It is a difficult road to navigate, with sentencing and mandatory sentences, non-violent versus violent crimes and taking into account the persons history, but some changes would/could be beneficial for America's prisons.

First, whether or not the public health system can handle it is a different question than how we ought to see it.

Secondly your statement: "the addiction to illegal drugs and subsequent need of the addicted to perpetuate the addiction is what ends up making it a criminal issue." proves my point. It's not the addiction that is criminal, it's the theft, prostitution, or whatever that is required to obtain illegal drugs on the black market.

A rational public health approach would shortcut this need to commit crimes for your fix while at the same time engaging the addict in a process designed to help him/her control the addiction.

[alexava 6,973]

My ass is just as reliable as anything else i have seen today.

Come on Alexava, you don't want to join that crowd. Your're better than that.

Just admit you were blowing off some steam and let it go.

i can admit I am blowing off steam. But I am not wrong. No one goes to prison in Alabama for petty nonviolent hiccups. And drugs cause almost all crimes. I don't consider drug offenses petty while they may be nonviolent they breed violence. That is why I seriously don't get the idea drug offenders should not be incarcerated. It's pretty simple. You avoid crime or go to jail. If you commit crime you don't get awarded with a free education and a job. Most criminals don't want a job anyway.

The drug problem should be treated as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue. The association with drugs and crimes is a direct result of making it a criminal issue to begin with.

And again, another statement without evidence to support it.

Yea, b/c public health is so much better equipped to handle it.

Negative, the addiction to illegal drugs and subsequent need of the addicted to perpetuate the addiction is what ends up making it a criminal issue. The addiction to illegal drugs makes some commit crime to get money and/or property to buy the drugs, whether the drugs were legal or not. When I was an LEO, I arrested a guy who had burglarized an elderly woman's home to steal stuff (in this case he took silverware among other things), but he didn't stop at just stealing the property, he had to beat the old woman (breaking her leg and hospitalizing her) and tried to RAPE her.

Yes, the CJ system needs to be overhauled along with sentencing guidelines, but often cases are being pushed through the systems as fast as they can b/c there are so many. Most areas are overloaded with cases and plead out most of the non-violent cases. Here in Metro Nashville they pump out plea deals like candy from a vending machine, unless it is a major violent crime or high dollar theft type case.

I think sentencing guidelines should be considered in conjunction with the offender. If its a non-violent crime and the offender hasn't been in the system in X amount of time then the newest charge should be re-considered outside of the pervue of a repeat offender clause. There is where many of the repeat offender sentencing guidelines are flawed. It's not necessarily written to take that into account. What everyone needs to realize is that the non-violent crimes OFTEN cost taxpayers more, b/c of the quick catch and release of the court system for non-violent offenders. It has been shown that a car burglar has committed many more crimes than what they go to jail on, same for many burglars, and petty thieves. Granted the violent offenders, who assault, rape, kill cost society in worse ways that are not always monetary, except for their incarceration and court costs. I do agree with aleava that doing the crime is and should be punished. Prisons are already crowded and underfunded. Frankly, many of those incarcerated don't care to or want to do rehab to make themselves better. They are content with were they are and what they had been doing and there is likely no getting through to them. It is a difficult road to navigate, with sentencing and mandatory sentences, non-violent versus violent crimes and taking into account the persons history, but some changes would/could be beneficial for America's prisons.

First, whether or not the public health system can handle it is a different question than how we ought to see it.

Secondly your statement: "the addiction to illegal drugs and subsequent need of the addicted to perpetuate the addiction is what ends up making it a criminal issue." proves my point. It's not the addiction that is criminal, it's the theft, prostitution, or whatever that is required to obtain illegal drugs on the black market.

A rational public health approach would shortcut this need to commit crimes for your fix while at the same time engaging the addict in a process designed to help him/her control the addiction.

no s***. they also kill, shoot, stab people over these drugs or the smallest of things. by the time a person has reached prison in alabama he or she is beyond any reasonable help. people see the number of incarcerated but don't see how many times they have been arrested or talk to their families who sometimes are relieved they are locked up.

it is also the idiots who somehow steal Rx pads from Dr.s and write themselves prescriptions. they do get treatment along with jail and get out and do it again. meanwhile my stuff gets stolen. or worse the chatanooga shooter was not an extremist by all accounts so far, but sent to the mideast by his family to get away from drug abuse and bad influences. he comes back and kills like a martyr. no shortage of job opportunities for him either. Sorry, drug abusers and dealers need more punishment, not less.

[alexava 6,973]

random FB story posted by a friend who has a family member(also an old friend of mine) who just recently got a pretty stiff sentence for cooking.. this meth thing has to be dealt with before it starts. after it starts it is too late.